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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 23:16:16 GMT
You know we could turn this whole discussion into its own thread. "DA:I portrayal of the Dalish."
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Post by NightSymphony on Feb 5, 2017 23:28:05 GMT
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 5, 2017 23:49:15 GMT
You know we could turn this whole discussion into its own thread. "DA:I portrayal of the Dalish." Some people are unsatisfied with the uneven portrayal of the Dalish (as others have explained above), and it's bound to come up in a discussion about an elven figure who wants to bring an end to the deplorable status quo imposed on the elves.
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Post by spiritofsolace on Feb 6, 2017 0:02:18 GMT
You know, I actually get why Solas is irritated with the Dalish, because for me the majority of the "dalish pride" options Lavellan can say make me want to grind my teeth. That stuff was terrible, about the nicest thing I can say is that it makes Lavellan look cluelessly self involved and indifferent to other people and their own ethnic identities and at worst yes it is arrogant. I'm like jeez you and your Dalish ass aren't the only thing that matters.
And before any of you shoot back that "not all dalish" they don't have to all do it for something to be a recurring problem in Dalish culture. We can't even talk about culture without doing some degree of generalizing. Like, It would be ridiculous to run into a discussion about Andrastians and try to deflect criticism by pointing out that Leliana is pro mage and pro elf "so not all andrastians are racist and anti mage how dare you". It would be inappropriate then and it is inappropriate now.
Why are we even talking about the Dalish again anyway.
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 6, 2017 0:02:40 GMT
is there not a dedicated elf thread?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 0:05:34 GMT
You know we could turn this whole discussion into its own thread. "DA:I portrayal of the Dalish." Some people are unsatisfied with the uneven portrayal of the Dalish (as others have explained above), and it's bound to come up in a discussion about an elven figure who wants to bring an end to the deplorable status quo imposed on the elves. It's fine to have a discussion from time to time - it's getting quite tedious when almost every recent discussion or thread page eventually turns to "uneven portrayal of the Dalish".
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Post by ellawyn on Feb 6, 2017 0:11:29 GMT
It's hard to interpret it as anything else. We know this banter quite well here, it's been quoted on those boards dozens of times, and I even mention it passingly in my response, as I did other things. If you want to bash me for apparently " presenting your theory as "the truth," and belittling those who believe otherwise" then hey - have at it, because I know my presentation can be confrontational... but there's one thing you can't do and that is not presenting or not willing to present my sources, either on a spot or when asked for it. I'm quite known for doing that consistently. That's not an unambiguous confirmation. An unambiguous confirmation is "Weekes said on Twitter that Sera and Solas' banter is because Sera's a city elf. There's no deeper reason, Sera is completely normal, and also here's a link to the tweet." "This one vague line with no concrete or explicit meaning" is not an unambiguous confirmation. I do like being confrontational, So you're condescending and rude on purpose? You - you don't think that's something to work on, maybe?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 0:16:46 GMT
You know, I actually get why Solas is irritated with the Dalish, because for me the majority of the "dalish pride" options Lavellan can say make me want to grind my teeth. That stuff was terrible, about the nicest thing I can say is that it makes Lavellan look cluelessly self involved and indifferent to other people and their own ethnic identities and at worst yes it is arrogant. I'm like jeez you and your Dalish ass aren't the only thing that matters. And before any of you shoot back that "not all dalish" they don't have to all do it for something to be a recurring problem in Dalish culture. We can't even talk about culture without doing some degree of generalizing. Like, It would be ridiculous to run into a discussion about Andrastians and try to deflect criticism by pointing out that Leliana is pro mage and pro elf "so not all andrastians are racist and anti mage how dare you". It would be inappropriate then and it is inappropriate now. Why are we even talking about the Dalish again anyway. It is getting quite bizarre - I guess people can have issues with me, because I'm responding to things that get quite circular at one point or another... but since when I'm NOT fairly regularly responding to things that are discussed on the thread? Thing is that recently it's like Solas's thread became "Dalish Complaints Central" and things I track or respond to keep CONSTANTLY landing on 'how unfair DA was to the Dalish', nevermind how far away from it we were with previous discussion, the quality of arguments or the fact that they were raised on thread already. And like I said - IMO it's fine to discuss it, as we're discussing DA on this thread from all angles... but this is probably the longest streak we've stuck to a particular issue in recent memory, if ever.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 0:39:19 GMT
You know, I actually get why Solas is irritated with the Dalish, because for me the majority of the "dalish pride" options Lavellan can say make me want to grind my teeth. That stuff was terrible, about the nicest thing I can say is that it makes Lavellan look cluelessly self involved and indifferent to other people and their own ethnic identities and at worst yes it is arrogant. I'm like jeez you and your Dalish ass aren't the only thing that matters. And before any of you shoot back that "not all dalish" they don't have to all do it for something to be a recurring problem in Dalish culture. We can't even talk about culture without doing some degree of generalizing. Like, It would be ridiculous to run into a discussion about Andrastians and try to deflect criticism by pointing out that Leliana is pro mage and pro elf "so not all andrastians are racist and anti mage how dare you". It would be inappropriate then and it is inappropriate now. Why are we even talking about the Dalish again anyway. It is getting quite bizarre - I guess people can have issues with me, because I'm responding to things that get quite circular at one point or another... but since when I'm NOT fairly regularly responding to things that are discussed on the thread? Thing is that recently it's like Solas's thread became "Dalish Complaints Central" and things I track or respond to keep CONSTANTLY landing on 'how unfair DA was to the Dalish', nevermind how far away from it we were with previous discussion, the quality of arguments or the fact that they were raised on thread already. And like I said - IMO it's fine to discuss it, as we're discussing DA on this thread from all angles... but this is probably the longest streak we've stuck to a particular issue in recent memory, if ever. Better then complaining about Briala's skin color. But really, it would be better to take the conversation into its own thread, since A) you can get feedback from members who don't come to the Solas thread, and this discussion is going to go on for a long time, hell it has gone on for a few pages has it not.
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Post by halla on Feb 6, 2017 0:40:21 GMT
If the Inquisitor is a Lavellan and they succeed in saving their clan, then hopefully that would result in a better profile for the Dalish as a whole, at least in the Freemarches. The clans were said to be watching your progress with interest. Several Dalish joined up with the Inquisition to help in the efforts against Corypheus, including two from Gisharel's clan, Ralaferin. However, I wonder if any of this will have a lasting affect if the Inquisitor is not a Dalish elf. My Dalish Warden was given the boon for their people at the end of DAO but by DA2 that had come to nothing, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the gains made by a Dalish Inquisitor aren't quietly forgotten further down the line. Could you explain/throw source/text when it is said in game? I feel like I missed something important...
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 0:43:59 GMT
That's not an unambiguous confirmation. An unambiguous confirmation is "Weekes said on Twitter that Sera and Solas' banter is because Sera's a city elf. There's no deeper reason, Sera is completely normal, and also here's a link to the tweet." "This one vague line with no concrete or explicit meaning" is not an unambiguous confirmation. This is a textbook example of 'moving the goalpost' - suddenly nothing else is good aside from 100% conformation right from the author, as if we couldn't extrapolate anything from the story itself... And it's not like I only brought "one vague line with no concrete or explicit meaning", so please don't act as if I've done so. I've given my reasons why I think the way I do, I've given my sources and so on and all I got in return is crude dismissal. Calm down, Ellawyn - I don't know what is it with your occasional outbursts where you suddenly jump at me and interpret everything I do as condescending (last time it was with my use of "errr" or "umm" I sometimes use a sign of confusion, that you've interpreted as condescension... I'd like to point out that since you've informed me that it irritates you, I've limited its use, ergo: I worked on it). I mean, nevermind that in itself seems quite condescending. So I guess we both have things we need to work on, ey?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 0:55:28 GMT
If the Inquisitor is a Lavellan and they succeed in saving their clan, then hopefully that would result in a better profile for the Dalish as a whole, at least in the Freemarches. The clans were said to be watching your progress with interest. Several Dalish joined up with the Inquisition to help in the efforts against Corypheus, including two from Gisharel's clan, Ralaferin. However, I wonder if any of this will have a lasting affect if the Inquisitor is not a Dalish elf. My Dalish Warden was given the boon for their people at the end of DAO but by DA2 that had come to nothing, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the gains made by a Dalish Inquisitor aren't quietly forgotten further down the line. Could you explain/throw source/text when it is said in game? I feel like I missed something important... The Dalish elf from Hawen's clan, Loranil, mentions to Dalish Inquisitor when we first talk with him: that the clans have been talking about Inky and he 'thinks it's mostly positive', if I recall correctly, though no further details were given, including how many clans were talking and to what extent.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 6, 2017 0:55:41 GMT
You know, I actually get why Solas is irritated with the Dalish, because for me the majority of the "dalish pride" options Lavellan can say make me want to grind my teeth. That stuff was terrible, about the nicest thing I can say is that it makes Lavellan look cluelessly self involved and indifferent to other people and their own ethnic identities and at worst yes it is arrogant. I'm like jeez you and your Dalish ass aren't the only thing that matters. Considering how elves are denigrated, with even Duncan referencing (to the elven protagonist) how many humans don't see elves as people, it's easy to understand why the Dalish and the City elves have pride in their cultures when the rest of the world views them in such a negative way for it. The entire human world makes them think they are lesser for being elven, so they take pride because there's an onslaught of very close-minded views that tries to make them feel lesser for not being human. It's similar to the 'black is beautiful' campaign in the real world, which took place for similar reasons of prejudice and discrimination. And before any of you shoot back that "not all dalish" they don't have to all do it for something to be a recurring problem in Dalish culture. We can't even talk about culture without doing some degree of generalizing. Like, It would be ridiculous to run into a discussion about Andrastians and try to deflect criticism by pointing out that Leliana is pro mage and pro elf "so not all andrastians are racist and anti mage how dare you". It would be inappropriate then and it is inappropriate now. Except the point of such discussions are to address that the Dalish aren't the one-dimensional villains that some try to paint them out to be. Why are we even talking about the Dalish again anyway. I don't see why you discuss the Dalish if you don't want to discuss them.
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Post by spiritofsolace on Feb 6, 2017 1:09:23 GMT
Cool story, usually when people have cultural chauvinism pride they aren't grossly misrepresenting someone else's culture the way the dalish are the Elvhen and then wetting themselves when others disapprove. Nor can you expect everyone to be happy to take self involved behavior, being marginalized isn't a free pass out of common decency. And nobody is making the Dalish into cartoon villains though you seem eager to vilify others in order to prove their infantile child like innocence.
You know where would be a good place to talk about the Dalish? In their own thread. Heaven forbid people want to talk about Solas with out the same wank by Dalish racists.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 6, 2017 1:12:36 GMT
If the Inquisitor is a Lavellan and they succeed in saving their clan, then hopefully that would result in a better profile for the Dalish as a whole, at least in the Freemarches. The clans were said to be watching your progress with interest. Several Dalish joined up with the Inquisition to help in the efforts against Corypheus, including two from Gisharel's clan, Ralaferin. However, I wonder if any of this will have a lasting affect if the Inquisitor is not a Dalish elf. My Dalish Warden was given the boon for their people at the end of DAO but by DA2 that had come to nothing, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the gains made by a Dalish Inquisitor aren't quietly forgotten further down the line. Could you explain/throw source/text when it is said in game? I feel like I missed something important... Are you talking about the Dalish who join the Inquisition? Neria, the First of Clan Ralaferin, and Cillian, an Arcane Warrior who was previously with Clan Ralaferin, joined the Inquisition. They are characters you can play as in the Multiplayer mode for Inquisition, and have brief mentions in the vanilla game. There are also Dalish who join you once you align with Keeper Hawen, but Inquisition doesn't really focus on that. The Dalish Boon was in reference to the Hinterlands being given to the Dalish if your Dalish Hero of Ferelden asks for the People to be given their own land or if your protagonist commits the ultimate sacrifice to stop the Fifth Blight, and then that royal boon (and the outcome of the Dalish settling those lands and Keeper Lanaya keeping the peace between elves and their human neighbors) was undone post-Origins, so it pretty much amounts to nothing at this point. With Clan Lavellan potentially ruling over Wycome not being referenced in the Dragon Age Keep, there's some speculation that this will also be undone like the Dalish Boon was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 1:32:33 GMT
Cool story, usually when people have cultural chauvinism pride they aren't grossly misrepresenting someone else's culture the way the dalish are the Elvhen and then wetting themselves when others disapprove. Nor can you expect everyone to be happy to take self involved behavior, being marginalized isn't a free pass out of common decency. And nobody is making the Dalish into cartoon villains though you seem eager to vilify others in order to prove their infantile child like innocence. You know where would be a good place to talk about the Dalish? In their own thread. Heaven forbid people want to talk about Solas with out the same wank by Dalish racists. BAM! I have made this thread with my great thread making powers. LETS DISCUSS: THE PORTRAYAL OF THE DALISH IN DA:I.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 6, 2017 1:34:16 GMT
Cool story, usually when people have cultural chauvinism pride they aren't grossly misrepresenting someone else's culture the way the dalish are the Elvhen and then wetting themselves when others disapprove. That seems like a grotesque and inflammatory way to address people who like the Dalish. People who don't agree with you about how Inquisition handled certain story elements, including the elves, have been quite civil in this thread when addressing their views, so I don't see the need to personally attack them just because they don't share your perspective on the matter. Nor can you expect everyone to be happy to take self involved behavior, being marginalized isn't a free pass out of common decency. And nobody is making the Dalish into cartoon villains though you seem eager to vilify others in order to prove their infantile child like innocence. If Andrastian humans repeatedly attack the Dalish when they 'stay too long' in one area, make verbal threats in an attempt to coerce them to convert to the Andrastian faith, and templars hunt the clans down, then I don't see why you're so surprised that the Dalish expect the worst from outsiders and strangers when they have almost always encountered only the worst century after century. I'm not particularly interested in vilifying the Dalish for not buttering the butt of the main character. Also, as no one in this thread has claimed that the Dalish should be written or treated as wholly innocent, I don't even understand why you're making such a claim. You know where would be a good place to talk about the Dalish? In their own thread. Heaven forbid people want to talk about Solas with out the same wank by Dalish racists. If you don't think this thread should discuss the Dalish at all, I don't see why you're discussing the Dalish. That seems incredibly counterintuitive. I also don't think attacking people who disagree with you about the Dalish is warranted. Gervaise and Opuspace have been incredibly civil in their discussions, and as Solas' story arc ties into the situation with the elves, it's only natural that (in the absence of any new material to discuss) people will reflect back on what previously transpired.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 1:40:02 GMT
Why are we even talking about the Dalish again anyway. I don't see why you discuss the Dalish if you don't want to discuss them. ... Because people don't want to discuss them anymore, yet the topic is being brought back continually at least since the beginning of January and is effectively strangling any other discussions we've had here? So it's been a full month at this point. And it wouldn't be half as bad if those were varied discussions from every angle - but it pretty much always ends up with specific issue with portrayal of the Dalish. Seriously, if you want to focus on it so badly to air your grievances, just create a separate thread. I at this point will just try and ignore it if it occurs here from now on. I didn't want to do it, because I like discussing things in general (if anyone can't tell), but it's getting apparent that I'm part of the problem.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Feb 6, 2017 1:47:01 GMT
I don't see why you discuss the Dalish if you don't want to discuss them. ... Because people don't want to discuss them anymore, yet the topic is being brought back continually at least since the beginning of January and is effectively strangling any other discussions we've had here? And you've participated in such discussions, so I don't see how you're seriously claiming that people don't want to discuss them anymore. In fact, the last page involved Opuspace and I discussing Solas' views on Andrastian elves because Opuspace pointed out that the Dalish discussion was detracting the thread (and both of us dropped the topic at that point), but you decided to bring it up again after Opuspace changed direction and started discussing Solas' views on Andrastian elves. So it's been a full month at this point. And it wouldn't be half as bad if those were varied discussions from every angle - but it pretty much always ends up with specific issue with portrayal of the Dalish. So the issue is that some people don't agree with you. Seriously, if you want to focus on it so badly to air your grievances, just create a separate thread. I at this point will just try and ignore it if it occurs here from now on. I didn't want to do it, because I like discussing things in general (if anyone can't tell), but it's getting apparent that I'm part of the problem. But you're the one who reignited the discussion on the last page, so I don't see how you're seriously claiming that you don't want to discuss it. If that sincerely mattered to you, I would've thought you would have continued discussing Solas, or brought up a new topic involving Solas in the last page if you didn't like what Opuspace and I were discussing
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:22:21 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 2:27:48 GMT
.... Now I'm imagining Solas in this goddamn advert. The most hilarious thing is that I believe Solas could recreate this AD in the Fade perfectly. Well, except that he'd be sitting on the halla at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 2:34:20 GMT
.... Now I'm imagining Solas in this goddamn advert. The most hilarious thing is that I believe Solas could recreate this AD in the Fade perfectly. Well, except that he'd be sitting on the halla at the end.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 6, 2017 2:41:59 GMT
That's just cruel, lol
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Post by opuspace on Feb 6, 2017 3:20:46 GMT
Well, I was about to try to answer midnight tea since she put forth excellent points, but since this moved on, I'd like to say sorry your thread got derailed so far
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 7:36:18 GMT
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