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Post by Wynne on Feb 20, 2017 8:37:10 GMT
Loving this thread. Keep making me laugh and think, Solasmancers.
Couple of songs that remind me of Solas or Solavellan things--
From Solas's perspective:
"Don't look, don't look" the shadows breathe Whispering me away from you "Don't wake at night to watch her sleep You know that you will always lose"
From Lavellan's perspective:
You run away, you hide away to the other side of the universe Where you're safe from all that hunts you down But the world has gone where you belong, and it feels too late, so you're moving on Can you find your way back home?
Both those songs give me epic feels in general, but Fire and Ice wormed its way back into my brain after Trespasser as exactly what I was feeling about Solas, and Burn stuck out when I was listening to one of my old playlists as being plucked from his brain.
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spiritofsolace
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Post by spiritofsolace on Feb 20, 2017 9:05:59 GMT
It would be weird to me if Solas wasn't doing something about the blight. He does call it "the real problem" at one point. So if he isn't doing something about it and he is just doing his veil destroying plan for nostalgia or whatever, than he has to just accept that the blight is going to eventually kill the Elves anyway? That is way less explainable than why he isn't telling us about what he is doing. Honestly what is the inqusitor going to be able to do? The grey wardens haven't found a good plan for the blight or even truly understand it after 2,000 years. It is sheer player vanity to think we have an answer for all these problems. If we do it is just because that is the sort of power fantasy bioware games are, not that it is remotely logical for you to be the shiny hero who can solve anything, the npcs just aren't going to acknowledge you that way. I *still* don't remember where I read this, but I think DA protagonists are *supposed* to be random people stuck at the right (or wrong?) place at the right (or wrong) time. They're essentially just pawns to the story or to some higher powers, struggling against the current. Some actions can fail, others backfire, and yet others lead to some unexpected consequences (yeah, sure, let's help that dwarf open a church in Orzammar...). We are not supposed to be able to help everyone and save everything, and I think that it's the point. But players don't like it because people like feeling like they've accomplished something. But DA's prerogative seems to be it's story, not making the players feel accomplished by becoming a "shiny hero" who magically made every problem on Thedas go away. And it's realistic, even if depressing and/or irritating at times. That's my take on it, anyway. As for Solas, no matter how much he tries to be logical, he still acts on his emotions. That's his main problem, he doesn't really think things through. Right now, destroying the Veil is his goal number one since he feels guilty about this, and the Blight might be somewhere further down the list... might be.
As I saw on Tumblr the other day - Solas is what happens when you put all stat points in Intelligence and zero in Wisdom Solas typically has more than one reason for doing anything he does and he has way to much to say about the blight for it to be something "further down the list". His dialog seems to imply that he thinks an eternal blight is going to occur after all the old gods are defeated. So, it just doesn't add up for me personally that he would suddenly (and conveniently) forget that. Here is a tumblr post that compiles everything Solas says about the blight, the writers really made a point to have him talk about it. I'm sure the blight is definitely going to be a part of Solas' story in some way. as for the bolded do we know this? How do we know he isn't thinking things through? Cole actually says that Solas was right to bring up the veil. Even if all this was just about the veil we know that it is hurting spirits. What i am getting at is that this is all probably more complicated in some way than most care to admit. The current world is built on the suffering of others (spirits, elves who should have lived longer, mages who became abominations) and I don't think that is truly morally right any more than bringing the veil down is morally right. Imma be blunt but that tumblr post is what I am talking about with player vanity. He has no wisdom at all......but we do........even though it is obvious we aren't fully informed. I dunno man
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Post by javeart on Feb 20, 2017 9:19:19 GMT
I have to say that I'm surprised about so many people thinking that Solas knows a lot and is very smart, but not wise... He always sounded wise to me when he talks about... well, most things... Ok, there's the part about giving his orbe to Corypheus I think the problem is more that he's trying to deal on his own with very complex issues and imminent dangers, and so he's always taking big risks, but would things be better if he did nothing? It's hard to judge when we don't half of what he knows, IMO. My problem with bringing down the veil is not if that's wise, I honestly don't know if it is or not, but he surely doesn't seem unaware of the consequences and the implications, it's just that it sounds cruel. And even so, one doesn't really know if there's a better alternative It would be weird to me if Solas wasn't doing something about the blight. He does call it "the real problem" at one point. So if he isn't doing something about it and he is just doing his veil destroying plan for nostalgia or whatever, than he has to just accept that the blight is going to eventually kill the Elves anyway? That is way less explainable than why he isn't telling us about what he is doing. (...) I do think that he has plans for the Blight, the question for me is if bringing back the world of the elves is part of that plan or a goal on its own, his main goal in fact, and the way he talks in Trespasser it seems it's the latter. And I'm not even saying that it's not the former so that what he's really doing is saving the world (or trying to), but if that's the case (and I hope it is), I'm going to feel cheated
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Post by LliiraAnna on Feb 20, 2017 9:31:21 GMT
I *still* don't remember where I read this, but I think DA protagonists are *supposed* to be random people stuck at the right (or wrong?) place at the right (or wrong) time. They're essentially just pawns to the story or to some higher powers, struggling against the current. Some actions can fail, others backfire, and yet others lead to some unexpected consequences (yeah, sure, let's help that dwarf open a church in Orzammar...). We are not supposed to be able to help everyone and save everything, and I think that it's the point. But players don't like it because people like feeling like they've accomplished something. But DA's prerogative seems to be it's story, not making the players feel accomplished by becoming a "shiny hero" who magically made every problem on Thedas go away. And it's realistic, even if depressing and/or irritating at times. That's my take on it, anyway. As for Solas, no matter how much he tries to be logical, he still acts on his emotions. That's his main problem, he doesn't really think things through. Right now, destroying the Veil is his goal number one since he feels guilty about this, and the Blight might be somewhere further down the list... might be.
As I saw on Tumblr the other day - Solas is what happens when you put all stat points in Intelligence and zero in Wisdom Solas typically has more than one reason for doing anything he does and he has way to much to say about the blight for it to be something "further down the list". His dialog seems to imply that he thinks an eternal blight is going to occur after all the old gods are defeated. So, it just doesn't add up for me personally that he would suddenly (and conveniently) forget that. Here is a tumblr post that compiles everything Solas says about the blight, the writers really made a point to have him talk about it. I'm sure the blight is definitely going to be a part of Solas' story in some way. as for the bolded do we know this? How do we know he isn't thinking things through? Cole actually says that Solas was right to bring up the veil. Even if all this was just about the veil we know that it is hurting spirits. What i am getting at is that this is all probably more complicated in some way than most care to admit. The current world is built on the suffering of others (spirits, elves who should have lived longer, mages who became abominations) and I don't think that is truly morally right any more than bringing the veil down is morally right. Imma be blunt but that tumblr post is what I am talking about with player vanity. He has no wisdom at all......but we do........even though it is obvious we aren't fully informed. I dunno man I should probably have specified that this is my personal impression which might or might not be correct. It's not 100% truth, just my gut feeling. Also, it does not contradict your words, in fact, I think it can all be combined into one nice, complex package that is Solas Does he know more than he lets on? Sure he does. Whether he takes ALL these things into consideration is another matter. He cannot do everything at once, he has to have priorities. RN his priority is the Veil. He might be motivated by guilt *and* there might be more reasons for him to do so. It might be only the first step of a grander plan for all I know (though rn I doubt it tbh). It might be that bringing the Veil down is imperative to deal with any further threats. I don't know. We actually know very little for sure after all. But, again, my personal, subjective impression is that he's fueled by emotions & not thinking that far ahead because of it. And I don't mean it in a solely negative way, because, again, we don't know. Maybe doing what he does really is needed. But we don't know. tl;dr: I know that I don't know anything.
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Post by Auirel on Feb 20, 2017 14:51:10 GMT
Honestly, I think Solas can and does create these well-thought out, complex plans in order to succeed and usually adapts well enough to things that force him to alter his plans. The problem is when something comes along that completely derails everything. I get the feeling that he was in the midst of working on a plan with Mythal to stop the Evanuris when they killed her, which forced him to go with something more cobbled together and crude. Its like throwing a bucket of water over a burning toaster, you put out the fire, but now you can't make toast. And while Solas probably blames himself for more than he is truly responsible for, I doubt he would feel this guilty over it if he absolutely had to do it. It would make more sense if he could have done something to stop them earlier, but didn't for whatever reason. Maybe Mythal stopped him from doing so, maybe there was a cost involved. Maybe innocent lives would have been sacrificed for it to work and a younger, more optimistic Solas might have thought "I won't be like them. I won't kill innocent people to achieve my goals. I'll find another way." Only he eventually had to sacrifice even more lives and destroy everything he knew, all because he didn't want those that didn't deserve it to die.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 20, 2017 18:16:26 GMT
Weisshaupt has been painted as suspicious since game 1 - and the fact that both Orlesian and Fereldan Wardens have teamed up in DAI in misguided attempt to deal with remaining Archdemons before they all succumb to the Calling doesn't help to dispel the impression that there's something wrong with Anderfelian Wardens. Like: Corypheus and Venatori schemes aside, why did Fereldan and Orlesian Wardens thought that if THEY perish, there won't be anyone left to deal with potential Blight? Did they distrust Wardens from other parts of the world? Why Weisshaupt wasn't involved? We still don't know for certain that the Fereldan Wardens were involved in DAI, only that they all mysteriously went silent. Some dialogue suggests that the False Calling was limited solely to Wardens in Orlais, perhaps because they had the largest contingent of Wardens in southern Thedas. Having Ferelden be affected wouldn't have really accomplished anything in the grand scheme, as they have a meager numbers of Wardens compared to those in Orlais. Clarel's rationale may have been that without Orlais, the Wardens risked losing the entire south should another Blight ever surface there? Orlais was hit hard by the Second and Third Blights, while the Fifth Blight erupted in Ferelden only a decade earlier. Her paranoia may be the well-founded that without the Wardens in the south, it'd be doomed if the last two Archdemons awoke... and for all they knew, one already had. Stories about Corypheus' (fake) Archdemon were spreading like wildfire following the destruction of Haven and that may have been why they were freaking out at the constant sound of the Calling they were hearing, assuming it was somehow related? Could be that the trouble in Weisshaupt was the reports (or lack thereof) coming from the south, perhaps fearing a schism was taking place. Orlais doesn't seem to have been acting with authorisation, while Ferelden was completely silent, so they may have assumed both nations had gone rogue. Ferelden going rogue wouldn't be that surprising, given their checkered history. Warden-Commander Sophia Dryden got involved with the Civil War against Arland and tried to take the throne, the Warden and Alistair got involved in the Civil War against Loghain and helped install a new ruler on both the throne of Ferelden and Orzammar during the Fifth Blight. The Warden-Commander now controls Amaranthine and (potentially) chose to spare the Architect and allow him to continue creating Awakened Darkspawn. Orlais isn't the only branch that Weisshaupt has to worry about, since Ferelden routinely ignores the Order's rules as well. The internal problems in Weisshaupt may be them tearing their hair out over how to try to bring the southern chapters back into line, before the south decides to abandon them entirely?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 20, 2017 18:57:20 GMT
Weisshaupt has been painted as suspicious since game 1 - and the fact that both Orlesian and Fereldan Wardens have teamed up in DAI in misguided attempt to deal with remaining Archdemons before they all succumb to the Calling doesn't help to dispel the impression that there's something wrong with Anderfelian Wardens. Like: Corypheus and Venatori schemes aside, why did Fereldan and Orlesian Wardens thought that if THEY perish, there won't be anyone left to deal with potential Blight? Did they distrust Wardens from other parts of the world? Why Weisshaupt wasn't involved? We still don't know for certain that the Fereldan Wardens were involved in DAI, only that they all mysteriously went silent. The involvement of Alistair or Loghain - who are Fereldan Wardens - basically confirms that Fereldan Wardens have joined the Orlesian ones. Neither of them mentions Fereldan Wardens moving elswhere - in fact, for a time being all of them have joined Clarel's Wardens in search for the solution, only to grow suspicious and have their own men turn on them. Nothing Clarel said has suggested that she was thinking predominantly about Orlais or the South - the plan seemed to operate under the presumption that they're doing a favor for humanity as a whole. At a time the Wardens have disappeared, nobody (except the Venatori perhaps) knew of Corypheus and his "Archdemon" dragon. Leliana informs us of Fereldan and Orlesian Warden's disappearance after Inquisitor returns from Val Royeaux (it's the reason we go and search for Blackwall), and we do see brainwashed Wardens involved in ritual in Temple Of Sacred Ashes once Inquisitor regains memory of the event in the raw Fade. In other words, the Wardens have disappeared and must have worked on their secret demon army summoning a while before the Conclave, waaaaaaay before the attack on Heaven. ... And nobody went check what is going on? Especially given that - like you said - Fereldan Wardens at least have a checkered history? You'd think Weisshaupt would care about checking on what's going on in other parts of the world, in order to prevent a situation like prior to Fifth Blight, where Duncan has to personally scour Ferelden to find a few candidates willing to join the paltry numbers of Fereldan Wardens?
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Post by melbella on Feb 20, 2017 20:58:27 GMT
Just one nit to pick - if you talk to Loghain in Awakening, he says he's been assigned to Orlais (oh, the irony!). Alistair doesn't show up in DAA if he remains a Warden, so it's unclear where he's been sent. However, since Hawke runs into him in Kirkwall along with Stroud it's possible, if not likely, Warden Alistair been assigned to the Free Marches. In other words, after DAO, neither of them are Fereldan Wardens anymore.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 20, 2017 21:07:11 GMT
The involvement of Alistair or Loghain - who are Fereldan Wardens - basically confirms that Fereldan Wardens have joined the Orlesian ones. Alistair and Loghain were operating as part of the Orlesian Wardens in DAI. In Origins, Alistair can end up exiled from Ferelden if he doesn't take the throne, due to the fear that the Landsmeet might attempt to use his stronger claim for the throne to incite rebellion against Anora. Regardless of how he spent DA2 (either as a Warden or a drunk), he was a Warden again by DAI and rejoined the order in Orlais. We learn in Awakening that Loghain was effectively exiled and transferred to Orlais following the Fifth Blight. As a polarising figure in Ferelden, it was politically dangerous to have him remain because those who fought against him may have tried to exact revenge, while those who supported him may try to return him to power. If Alistair is King, it was also his own private way of getting even, by forcing Loghain to spend the rest of his life in the country he hates most (and who hate him in return). Loghain confirms in DAI that he's served under Clarel and as part of the Wardens for almost ten years. They were Fereldan Wardens, but they aren't anymore. We cannot however say for certain the Wardens in the Temple of Sacred Ashes were necessarily Fereldan. With the masses of people coming from far and wide to attend the Conclave, as well as Haven's proximity to the Orlesian border, the brainwashed Wardens who were with him could have potentially come from anywhere. The Fereldan Wardens going quiet is suspicious, but that's not necessarily proof they joined them. Their lack of numbers makes them a negligible addition to the ranks and the bulk of the plot takes place in the Western Approach, so why would Ferelden be needed? The journal on the Storm Coast comments on the country and people as though the author wasn't from Ferelden, although this may be because they were Dalish. The two Wardens in Crestwood did sound Fereldan, but refer to the order for the Warden-ally's capture coming from Clarel, making it unclear who they actually report to? You'd think the task of tracking down deserting Wardens should probably fall under the jurisdiction of the local Warden-Commander of that region? Although the two Wardens in Crestwood may have been doing just that, working as part of the Fereldan Warden to deport the Warden-ally back to Orlais for punishment. Inquisition was annoyingly vague at times and provided only partial-answers to some of the mysteries it set up.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 20, 2017 21:11:12 GMT
To be honest the whole Warden thing didn't make a lot of sense if you know what happened in previous games and in the Last Flight. In DAA Weisshaupt was anxious to continue making a good impression in Ferelden and show they could be trusted with the temporal power that the monarch gave them. Whether it was the Hero of Ferelden in charge or the Orlesian substitute (if you did the US), they wanted it to succeed and sent the resources to enable this. It seems highly strange that if they stopped getting communications from Vigil's Keep, they wouldn't have immediately despatched someone to find out what was wrong. In fact, according to the Last Flight, in 9:41 they were still getting letters from Vigil's Keep from the new Warden Commander there and it was only Orlais that had fallen silent.
Which makes the whole business of the Wardens disappearing from Ferelden, Stroud/Alistiar/Loghain going on the run and that whole letter from Clarel to Teagan seem total nonsense. The Wardens had been actively rebuilding the order in Ferelden ever since the 5th Blight had restored their reputation there with the blessing of King Alistair/Queen Anora. So there was absolutely no reason for Clarel to be writing to Teagan (as Ambassador to Orlais) as though the Wardens were still being treated with suspicion. It also made no sense for Teagan, like Clarel, to be harking back to the time of Sophie Dryden, when the monarch of Ferelden had already consigned that to the past and actually given the Wardens governorship of an area in Ferelden. Not only that, but not everyone serving in Vigil's Keep was an actual Warden, so even if they started to act peculiar, one of the ordinary personnel there would have notified both Weisshaupt and the monarch in Denerim that something was wrong. So the notion that all the Wardens in both nations would suddenly up sticks and disappear with no one having any idea why, was frankly ridiculous.
Then again, I also found it stupid that a banishment of the Grey Wardens from Orlais for reasons of security until Corypheus was dealt with, would suddenly grow into a Thedas wide shunning of the Wardens. There was no evidence that the Wardens in the Freemarches, Antiva, Rivain, Nevarra or Tevinter had been affected by his false calling or had done anything to earn the ire of their respective nations, yet this is what we are led to believe happened, even if we specifically did not want to capitalise on errors of the Orlesian Wardens.
Meanwhile whoever went to report matters to Weisshaupt, we hear nothing further back for another two years (you'd think we could have sent a few of our agents to look into the matter) and even Varric has heard nothing, if Hawke was sent, then suddenly in the epilogue to Trespasser Hawke is back in Kirkwall with no explanation given. Whilst in the Last Flight nothing untoward seemed to be happening at Warden HQ except that by 9:42 the griffons have been rediscovered.
The disconnect between previous games, DAI, the lore books and the novel is such that they had better have some really good plot explanation for it all in the next game.
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spiritofsolace
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Post by spiritofsolace on Feb 20, 2017 23:34:37 GMT
It would be weird to me if Solas wasn't doing something about the blight. He does call it "the real problem" at one point. So if he isn't doing something about it and he is just doing his veil destroying plan for nostalgia or whatever, than he has to just accept that the blight is going to eventually kill the Elves anyway? That is way less explainable than why he isn't telling us about what he is doing. (...) I do think that he has plans for the Blight, the question for me is if bringing back the world of the elves is part of that plan or a goal on its own, his main goal in fact, and the way he talks in Trespasser it seems it's the latter. And I'm not even saying that it's not the former so that what he's really doing is saving the world (or trying to), but if that's the case (and I hope it is), I'm going to feel cheated That is an interesting question, I think maybe it is motivating factor. Just to speculate, since the only thing I am sure of is that there is some foreshadowing going on, is that maybe Solas believes the blight can't be solved if the veil is up. So he would feel that the modern world is most likely doomed no matter what he does. If he brings the veil down the elves will have stronger magic and with it better odds at defeating the blight. So it is a added motivation, one reason out of all the reasons he has to want the veil gone.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 0:22:05 GMT
oooh....some of those Warden codex and story bits I haven't seen or read in a looonnnggg time. Nice finds. I 100% agree on the story slip of Hawke making no mention of what was going on in Weisshaupt when he returns to Kirkwall, always thought that was weird. Unless that wasn't one? (I don't have a lot of confidence that this is the case but I also want to believe the writers wouldn't overlook something that big.... ) So theory time? Memory or mind wipes going on? Explains why nothing comes from Hawke on the issue. Weisshaupt is completely silent, nothing is coming out of there. Wardens already have the tendency to keep things tight to the vest and enclosed within their own closed off regions. It is too much of a coincidence that a preserved body was 'once' housed there, and Dumat to boot. To my knowledge Weisshaupt is the only recorded place to keep an Old God's body. We don't have any other references of an Old God being kept or buried, or anything, except for Weisshaupt thanks to the Wardens. I would like to think this is on purpose since DAI is supposed to be half of the story. Prisons are supposed to be weakening and prisons are supposed to be 'breached'. There needs to be something strong enough and knowledgeable enough to bring about the 'true villains' of the DA series. I don't know, it's late, I ramble....this is why I lurk instead
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Feb 21, 2017 5:20:26 GMT
oooh....some of those Warden codex and story bits I haven't seen or read in a looonnnggg time. Nice finds. I 100% agree on the story slip of Hawke making no mention of what was going on in Weisshaupt when he returns to Kirkwall, always thought that was weird. Unless that wasn't one? (I don't have a lot of confidence that this is the case but I also want to believe the writers wouldn't overlook something that big.... ) So theory time? Memory or mind wipes going on? Explains why nothing comes from Hawke on the issue. Weisshaupt is completely silent, nothing is coming out of there. Wardens already have the tendency to keep things tight to the vest and enclosed within their own closed off regions. It is too much of a coincidence that a preserved body was 'once' housed there, and Dumat to boot. To my knowledge Weisshaupt is the only recorded place to keep an Old God's body. We don't have any other references of an Old God being kept or buried, or anything, except for Weisshaupt thanks to the Wardens.I would like to think this is on purpose since DAI is supposed to be half of the story. Prisons are supposed to be weakening and prisons are supposed to be 'breached'. There needs to be something strong enough and knowledgeable enough to bring about the 'true villains' of the DA series. I don't know, it's late, I ramble....this is why I lurk instead 'Tis not the same as an entire corpse, of course, but every warden stronghold has to have some Old God/Archdemon blood on hand since that is part of the Joining Ritual. Back in DAO Alistair or Duncan told us that the stuff we drink from the chalice is a mix of darkspawn blood, Archdemon blood, and lyrium. I have often felt sorry for the Warden and/or Alistair and/or Loghain because, once you kill Urthemiel, presumably they had to exsanguinate him into some barrels to ship off to Weisshaupt. What a job for only one or two Grey Wardens! Yuck. It would have to be done by Wardens to prevent Blight infection of healthy people.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 21, 2017 5:24:45 GMT
The involvement of Alistair or Loghain - who are Fereldan Wardens - basically confirms that Fereldan Wardens have joined the Orlesian ones. Alistair and Loghain were operating as part of the Orlesian Wardens in DAI. In Origins, Alistair can end up exiled from Ferelden if he doesn't take the throne, due to the fear that the Landsmeet might attempt to use his stronger claim for the throne to incite rebellion against Anora. Regardless of how he spent DA2 (either as a Warden or a drunk), he was a Warden again by DAI and rejoined the order in Orlais. We learn in Awakening that Loghain was effectively exiled and transferred to Orlais following the Fifth Blight. As a polarising figure in Ferelden, it was politically dangerous to have him remain because those who fought against him may have tried to exact revenge, while those who supported him may try to return him to power. If Alistair is King, it was also his own private way of getting even, by forcing Loghain to spend the rest of his life in the country he hates most (and who hate him in return). Loghain confirms in DAI that he's served under Clarel and as part of the Wardens for almost ten years. They were Fereldan Wardens, but they aren't anymore. That's fair. However, that still doesn't explain why they never mentioned that Fereldan Wardens have disappeared at the same time and apparently never joined Orlesians. And considering that they disappeared at the same time, so far we have no reason to believe they didn't join Orlesian Wardens. First - I wasn't referring to Fereldan Wardens in that part: I was referring to Clarel apparently hearing rumors about Archdemon, to which I pointed out that them gathering and concocting a plan to create a demon army and reach last 2 Archdemons must've been something that's been brewing way before the Wardens even heard of that new Archdemon. Second - Fereldan Wardens going silent at the same time Orlesians is definitely suspicious. So much in fact that Leliana sends us to search for Blackwall. Third - considering that the Wardens have apparently 'looked everywhere for help' and that we have seen exactly what for additional Wardens are needed (sacrifices on Western Approach to summon demon army) AND that to reach Ardemons logically means that there have to be enough Wardens to reach it hence the more the better... why wouldn't Fereldan Wardens be NOT needed? In fact, this is exactly why I am curious as to why Wardens from Weisshaupt weren't apparently involved in the whole thing in the first place.
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Post by Rynnju on Feb 21, 2017 5:47:18 GMT
Honestly, I think Solas can and does create these well-thought out, complex plans in order to succeed and usually adapts well enough to things that force him to alter his plans. The problem is when something comes along that completely derails everything. I get the feeling that he was in the midst of working on a plan with Mythal to stop the Evanuris when they killed her, which forced him to go with something more cobbled together and crude. Its like throwing a bucket of water over a burning toaster, you put out the fire, but now you can't make toast. And while Solas probably blames himself for more than he is truly responsible for, I doubt he would feel this guilty over it if he absolutely had to do it. It would make more sense if he could have done something to stop them earlier, but didn't for whatever reason. Maybe Mythal stopped him from doing so, maybe there was a cost involved. Maybe innocent lives would have been sacrificed for it to work and a younger, more optimistic Solas might have thought "I won't be like them. I won't kill innocent people to achieve my goals. I'll find another way." Only he eventually had to sacrifice even more lives and destroy everything he knew, all because he didn't want those that didn't deserve it to die. This is exactly what I think it is. Solas has an interesting dichotomy as a character. He is very meticulous and complex in his planning a lot of the time, but at the same time he's displayed as a somewhat impulsive character. I think the impulsiveness is linked to his emotion. So as you're saying, Mythal gets killed and he went with a "quicker" solution. And it's possible that some of that was fueled by his anger and grief, which bolstered him into doing a 'rip off the bandaid' version of what may have been a longer and more thought out plan. The cycle continues when he proceeds to fall in love with Lavellan and enter a relationship with her, which is very impulsive considering how crucial he perceives his goal as. It's also a characteristic he displays when he immediately goes in for the kill during his personal quest. But then he seems to bounce back rather swiftly when everything with Corypheus doesn't go as planned. He manages to adapt to the situation and help nudge the Inquisition down the path he needs it to go. It doesn't succeed as planned, but he does end up succeeding to some degree considering how powerful he is at the end. So big 'derailments' to his decision-making and goals appear to be, and probably will continue to be if we're redeeming him, his own emotions.
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Post by CapricornSun on Feb 22, 2017 4:50:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 19:02:37 GMT
hi guys new solavelan here, rip me and... yeah lots of tears how you all doing?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Feb 23, 2017 2:23:36 GMT
Welcome @ghostpants ! Most of us are recovered sufficiently to not be in tears, though the occasional reminder does set some of us off. We have veered more towards theorizing what might happen with Solas' story in hypothetical future games of Dragon Age. BUT, many of us in this thread have indeed been Solasmancers (though not all of us). So, we can lend you our wisdom (born of experience) if you need it. Meanwhile, the fort is well-equipped with pillows. Make yourself comfy and help yourself to some tea/hot chocolate and cookies. QuizzyBunny might hand you a cuddly bunny or two, too.
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Post by uirebhiril on Feb 23, 2017 2:23:38 GMT
hi guys new solavelan here, rip me and... yeah lots of tears how you all doing? Me, I still want to kick Solas in the shins. But barring that, I'll soothe the ache in my soul by playing Mass Effect while waiting for DA4 news. After which I'll beg Patrick Weekes to let me kick Solas in the shins. Just once. Once is enough. {Welcome! )
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 23, 2017 11:35:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 11:37:51 GMT
well if anyone has any da4 news please do tell me also if solas dies, we riot
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 11:59:34 GMT
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Solas on some level? I don't think he betrayed you. He simply made a mistake before he met you and then withheld the truth about his identity - liar definitely, but traitor? Alistair (though not for long) and Blackwall did the exact same thing. Then there is Anders, Iron Bull and Zevran who does in fact betray you. Morrigan is the only one, who you could really compare to Solas as withholding information and having a plot that doesn't have anything to do with you. Yet people seem fine with Morrigan and not with Solas - and we still have no idea what she intended to do with her son or what she is still planning. I don't get it.
On another note, I think its obvious that Solas will have a major role in the next game, but I will dissapointed if he is the antagonist - though he is most like the person who instigates the events. I just really hope that the Inquisitor will somehow be invovlved and that the romance with him will have an impact.
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Post by Auirel on Feb 23, 2017 13:20:35 GMT
Am I the only one who doesn't hate Solas on some level? I don't think he betrayed you. He simply made a mistake before he met you and then withheld the truth about his identity - liar definitely, but traitor? Alistair (though not for long) and Blackwall did the exact same thing. Then there is Anders, Iron Bull and Zevran who does in fact betray you. Morrigan is the only one, who you could really compare to Solas as withholding information and having a plot that doesn't have anything to do with you. Yet people seem fine with Morrigan and not with Solas - and we still have no idea what she intended to do with her son or what she is still planning. I don't get it. On another note, I think its obvious that Solas will have a major role in the next game, but I will dissapointed if he is the antagonist - though he is most like the person who instigates the events. I just really hope that the Inquisitor will somehow be invovlved and that the romance with him will have an impact. I honestly would be very surprised if many people here had a hatred for Solas. Anger or frustration maybe. Hatred is a far stronger. I love the guy. There is fair criticism to be said of his motives and of his opinions, some of which only exist because he has continued to withhold information from us and the player character. And people like Morrigan more than Solas? I'm not sure about that. Though a point about antagonists, good antagonists aren't simply evil people. They are often reflections of the protagonist. They explore the darker parts of the human psyche and make the protagonist and the player question themselves. Good antagonists should be as fleshed out and relatable as the protagonist. I'd honestly be disappointed if he wasn't the antagonist, because that would mean DA4 would need someone else to be the antagonist, and I'm not sure how their going to to make them relatable (unless its someone we already know, but even then...) And about the romance, well Patrick Weekes is head writer now, and has expressed a desire to give closure on Solas's romance. Nothing's concrete, but its a good sign.
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Post by Theneras on Feb 23, 2017 13:32:20 GMT
And about the romance, well Patrick Weekes is head writer now, and has expressed a desire to give closure on Solas's romance. Nothing's concrete, but its a good sign. If I don't get closure I will kick Patrick Weekes in the shins Welcome ghostpants. * goes back into lurk mode*
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