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Post by NeverlandHunter on Apr 20, 2017 1:58:32 GMT
^ Also, Solas is not perfect, so he might just have set his coattails on fire because he was in the middle of a chaotic combat when it happened. Exactly, every mage/person makes mistakes. Except, Madame de Fer, or so she would have you believe Solas is clever, but I don't see him thinking to purposely be bad at magic just to prevent possible suspicions about his skill. The specific banter makes it seem like he was flustered by Vivienne's remark and Solas is, well, prideful. In other banters with Vivienne you can see him being snide about how she casts her magic, and he never stops himself from showing off his knowledge of magic, so why would he try to make himself look bad with his casting? My guess is that the way modern mages use magic is vastly different than how used it back during his time. He probably needed to learn how to use a staff and to manipulate the Fade the way modern mages do to control magic. I don't think it's that strange to see him having trouble with "simple" spell casting. It's quite obvious from previous banter that Vivienne doesn't doesn't really think much about Solas's 'apostate' training and obviously nitpicks him at every possible occasion - and he nitpicks her back. Of course. They both criticize each other's magic as a way of criticizing the system, or in Solas's apparent case, lack of system, that taught them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 14:39:00 GMT
In the Frostback Basin:
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2017 18:41:26 GMT
I think I've asked this before but it's worth doing so again, where do you suppose the real world sequences in Trespasser are meant to be set? I was watching a flycam view of it on You Tube and there it is set within a huge mountain range. However, I don't see them as being the Frostbacks or anywhere down there because there are too many ruins and too many eluvians dotted around the place for the Avvar or other wandering people (including the Dalish) to have missed stumbling across them down the years. The foliage is mostly evergreen trees so that would rule out any wilderness areas up in the north of Thedas, like the Donarks (jungle), Anderfels (too arid and blighted). I doubt it could be Arlathan Forest area because the Vints would have done a pretty comprehensive search of the area after they conquered the elves there. So I'm thinking the Tirashan is the mostly likely candidate, particularly over towards the Hunterhorn Mountains. There is even a large lake shown up there, which could correspond with the area of the lair of the wolf. Plus it just so happens that Cassandra chose that area to train her new Seekers, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me considering how remote it is, particularly if she is Divine. The Tirashan also started being mentioned before DAI with the Last Court and then in Trespasser by Leliana with reference to the strange sentinel types elves there. From what it said in the Last Court only the edge of the Tirashan has been settled, so it is plausible that such a large number of ruins could have remained hidden there. What do you think?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Apr 21, 2017 0:22:25 GMT
I think I've asked this before but it's worth doing so again, where do you suppose the real world sequences in Trespasser are meant to be set? I was watching a flycam view of it on You Tube and there it is set within a huge mountain range. However, I don't see them as being the Frostbacks or anywhere down there because there are too many ruins and too many eluvians dotted around the place for the Avvar or other wandering people (including the Dalish) to have missed stumbling across them down the years. The foliage is mostly evergreen trees so that would rule out any wilderness areas up in the north of Thedas, like the Donarks (jungle), Anderfels (too arid and blighted). I doubt it could be Arlathan Forest area because the Vints would have done a pretty comprehensive search of the area after they conquered the elves there. So I'm thinking the Tirashan is the mostly likely candidate, particularly over towards the Hunterhorn Mountains. There is even a large lake shown up there, which could correspond with the area of the lair of the wolf. Plus it just so happens that Cassandra chose that area to train her new Seekers, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me considering how remote it is, particularly if she is Divine. The Tirashan also started being mentioned before DAI with the Last Court and then in Trespasser by Leliana with reference to the strange sentinel types elves there. From what it said in the Last Court only the edge of the Tirashan has been settled, so it is plausible that such a large number of ruins could have remained hidden there. What do you think? I'm not convinced that it is visible on the map we've seen to date. You'll note the map gets cut off north, west, and south so it could be in a place off the map in those areas. There is also the possibility of the other islands that are mentioned in the lore (where the Qunari are from, possibly where the humans are from).
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 21, 2017 0:41:36 GMT
I think I've asked this before but it's worth doing so again, where do you suppose the real world sequences in Trespasser are meant to be set? I was watching a flycam view of it on You Tube and there it is set within a huge mountain range. However, I don't see them as being the Frostbacks or anywhere down there because there are too many ruins and too many eluvians dotted around the place for the Avvar or other wandering people (including the Dalish) to have missed stumbling across them down the years. The foliage is mostly evergreen trees so that would rule out any wilderness areas up in the north of Thedas, like the Donarks (jungle), Anderfels (too arid and blighted). I doubt it could be Arlathan Forest area because the Vints would have done a pretty comprehensive search of the area after they conquered the elves there. So I'm thinking the Tirashan is the mostly likely candidate, particularly over towards the Hunterhorn Mountains. There is even a large lake shown up there, which could correspond with the area of the lair of the wolf. Plus it just so happens that Cassandra chose that area to train her new Seekers, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me considering how remote it is, particularly if she is Divine. The Tirashan also started being mentioned before DAI with the Last Court and then in Trespasser by Leliana with reference to the strange sentinel types elves there. From what it said in the Last Court only the edge of the Tirashan has been settled, so it is plausible that such a large number of ruins could have remained hidden there. What do you think? I'm not convinced that it is visible on the map we've seen to date. You'll note the map gets cut off north, west, and south so it could be in a place off the map in those areas. There is also the possibility of the other islands that are mentioned in the lore (where the Qunari are from, possibly where the humans are from). It could be entirely out of the known chunk of map for all we know. And the individual valleys, peaks or forests would be too small to be noticeable on maps (never-mind that obviously nobody who didn't travel via eluvians didn't find them) - especially that it's really impossible for any map at that period to be super-precise. They don't yet have satellites and I doubt the Fade helps cartographers draw precise maps. Heck, the Frostback Basin was "uncharted territory" until Inquisition expedition. Add to that the fact that the geography and climate of Thedas is a hodgepodge - both Frostback Basin and Arbor Wilds are jungles that grow way too far South to be warm enough for that type of forest (in fact the Sea on the East is called the Frozen Seas, while Mont-de-Glace to the West literally means "Ice Mountain"... one can easily infer that they must be close enough to Thedosian South Pole to be that cold). So the truth is that all the locations could really be anywhere - I mean... heck, Skyhold was in the middle of Frostback Mountains, controlling the mountain pass between Orlais and Ferelden and somehow it was quite hard to spot... possibly due some sort of spell? And since we know it was Solas's old shack, it's not that far-fetched to assume that perhaps some other places on the map were also guarded... in fact we know for sure that his sanctuary is guarded by spirits and who knows what else.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 21, 2017 11:14:21 GMT
I wonder if someone forgot to mention to the designers of the Arbor Wilds and Frostback basin that Thedas is the reverse of the northern hemisphere, so the warm bits are in the north and those areas should have been more like tundra or at least northern evergreen forest given how close they are to the Thedas arctic circle but I suppose there is no reason why vegetation in Thedas should act the same as vegetation in our world. There is an amusing bit in Masked Empire where PW talks of the nobles, like the birds, heading south for the winter, so apparently the birds don't act like they do in our world either. I assumed that the nobles in Orlais go south to Halamshiral because they like skiing. You'd think it would be in the heat of summer that they would want to get away from Val Royeaux.
I was actually quite disappointed in the World of Thedas at a depiction of a Tevinter Circle located in what looks more like a northern European landscape, when the majority of Tevinter, as I understand it, is meant to be more Mediterranean, borderline tropical in the north of the Imperium. So I'm hoping that will be reflected when we get there in the next game. Still may be they are Mediterranean pine trees and the sky is so cloudy and overcast because a storm is brewing
Whilst the Frostback Basin was "uncharted territory" before the DLC it is at least on the map, if only marginally. I just find it rather disappointing if the whole of Trespasser was meant to have been set in an area that isn't even shown on the map. The Tirashan did seem to be a good candidate considering we know there are highly aggressive elves there who would be able to keep people out on the fringes, so no one ever made it to the interior to discover what was there.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 21, 2017 14:49:47 GMT
I wonder if someone forgot to mention to the designers of the Arbor Wilds and Frostback basin that Thedas is the reverse of the northern hemisphere, so the warm bits are in the north and those areas should have been more like tundra or at least northern evergreen forest given how close they are to the Thedas arctic circle but I suppose there is no reason why vegetation in Thedas should act the same as vegetation in our world. I'm pretty sure that Bioware didn't forget that South of Thedas is basically upside-down Canada (close to Pole at one end and half-English, half-French). What I'm more curious about is why do you think that this is a flub, instead of intentional design? I mean... heck - we know that Thedas has magic in it, and while the Fade is pushed away by Veil, it still affects the world. In fact in Frostback Basin you can see that the place is cold (the Avvars wear thick skins and furs) and the jungle grows specifically around the ginormous tree (from the little island you can see that the rest of mountains farther away are barren) - as it does in Arbor Wilds, where the jungle grows around its ginormous tree at the heart of Temple Of Mythal. ... Yet we see none of the 'highly aggressive elves' in either location in Trespasser - in fact, we don't see any thick forest in any location in Trespasser (and in Fen'Harel's Sanctuary all we can see far away are naked hills), so no: I find it unlikely for any of the location to be anywhere close to Tirashan.
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Post by CapricornSun on Apr 21, 2017 18:58:02 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Apr 23, 2017 11:13:08 GMT
Solas is clever, but I don't see him thinking to purposely be bad at magic just to prevent possible suspicions about his skill. The specific banter makes it seem like he was flustered by Vivienne's remark and Solas is, well, prideful. In other banters with Vivienne you can see him being snide about how she casts her magic, and he never stops himself from showing off his knowledge of magic, so why would he try to make himself look bad with his casting? I dunno, Solas might have reason to want to deflect suspicion about his skill, since Bull picks up on this as well. Bull: You're not as flashy as most mages, Solas. The Tevinter mages I fought in Seheron tried to scare us with what they could do. Bull: Dorian has this shit-eating grin after every spell, like he's waiting for applause. Dorian: As any good mage would.Bull: Vivienne has this little swagger, like she knows she's the most dangerous thing in the room. Vivienne: I am the most dangerous thing in the room, darling. Bull: Yes, ma'am. Sorry, ma'am. Bull: Not the quiet Elven mage though. No frill. Nothing to give you away. Half our targets never even see you coming. Solas: I shall take that as a compliment. Bull: If you like. Bull: You've got an odd style Solas. Your spells are a bit different from the Circle Mages, or the Vints. Solas: That comes from being self-taught. I discovered most magic on my own. Or learned it from my journeys in the Fade. Bull: I've seen self-taught warriors, even the good ones have something awkward in their style. Something that "clunks". I don't get from you. Maybe magic is different? Solas: Or without magical training, you cannot know the parts of my magic that "clunk".
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 23, 2017 13:03:32 GMT
Yeah, I still think he did it on accident. Even the Dread Wolf has his moments. lol
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Post by CapricornSun on Apr 24, 2017 6:06:21 GMT
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Post by Tanyara on Apr 24, 2017 11:59:45 GMT
Is it just me that completely missed this, even though I am a lore nerd and has about 8 PTs of DAI? There's GREEN lyrium in the Hissing Wastes? Tumblr post on the subjectCould this simply be lyrium affected by rifts, or could it be connected to Solas' orb (and magic) that is also green? Someone on reddit mentioned that Cole comments on it being an experiment of the Venatori to try to make red lyrium less angry, buy I haven't found any evidence of that conversation actuallt taking place? Anyone with insights? Some claim that it is Shadowed Veridium but that shouldn't "sing" like lyrium when you get close to it, right?
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 24, 2017 15:36:46 GMT
Solas is clever, but I don't see him thinking to purposely be bad at magic just to prevent possible suspicions about his skill. The specific banter makes it seem like he was flustered by Vivienne's remark and Solas is, well, prideful. In other banters with Vivienne you can see him being snide about how she casts her magic, and he never stops himself from showing off his knowledge of magic, so why would he try to make himself look bad with his casting? I dunno, Solas might have reason to want to deflect suspicion about his skill, since Bull picks up on this as well. Bull: You're not as flashy as most mages, Solas. The Tevinter mages I fought in Seheron tried to scare us with what they could do. Bull: Dorian has this shit-eating grin after every spell, like he's waiting for applause. Dorian: As any good mage would.Bull: Vivienne has this little swagger, like she knows she's the most dangerous thing in the room. Vivienne: I am the most dangerous thing in the room, darling. Bull: Yes, ma'am. Sorry, ma'am. Bull: Not the quiet Elven mage though. No frill. Nothing to give you away. Half our targets never even see you coming. Solas: I shall take that as a compliment. Bull: If you like. Bull: You've got an odd style Solas. Your spells are a bit different from the Circle Mages, or the Vints. Solas: That comes from being self-taught. I discovered most magic on my own. Or learned it from my journeys in the Fade. Bull: I've seen self-taught warriors, even the good ones have something awkward in their style. Something that "clunks". I don't get from you. Maybe magic is different? Solas: Or without magical training, you cannot know the parts of my magic that "clunk". Considering how "flashy" some of the Rift Mage abilities are, I guess we'll just have to chalk Bull's observations up to Gameplay and Story Segregation ?
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 24, 2017 16:54:59 GMT
Considering how "flashy" some of the Rift Mage abilities are, I guess we'll just have to chalk Bull's observations up to Gameplay and Story Segregation ? Most mages abilities are flashy, besides I think Iron Bull mostly spoke of flair when casting these spells. Vivienne and Dorian put up a show, while Solas doesn't - hence most people don't expect a quiet elven mage about to conjure a devastating rain of meteors to fall on their heads, lol.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 24, 2017 19:33:49 GMT
Yes, I think Bull was meaning more his attitude when casting spells rather than the effect afterwards. Both Dorian and Vivienne have flashy clothes and the Inquisitor can actually make the comment to Dorian that he looks like he is waiting for applause. I'm sure most of the big shot Tevinter Magisters make people notice what they are doing because they want them to be afraid and in awe of them. Take a look how they portray the Archon in Magekiller.
By contrast, Solas dresses in simple clothes (gets a bit more showy in Trespasser when he is not trying to fool anyone) and when he casts his magic he does it in an understated way that would never make you think that he is probably the most powerful living mage in Thedas (with Flemeth out of the way he definitely is). Even the Viddasala made that mistake. And this is nothing new with him, because the Evanuris specifically warned against Fen'Harel and his "humble guises". This is not necessarily entirely an act either because the "hot headed" elf he was in his youth has been tempered with age and experience that has humbled him to some extent, even if he can't resist passing on his wisdom at times.
As for the green lyrium, I wondered what was meant to be going on when we visited the Hissing Wastes and I saw it but never went close enough for it to "sing" to me. I never got the Cole comment either but maybe you have to get close to it for him to say that. I wonder why the Venatori would want to make it "less angry" since I thought that was the whole point of the red lyrium to them and the anger is manifest in the Templars that have been fed it, making them stronger. Do you suppose the Venatori mages were sorry they couldn't utilise the stuff like they do ordinary lyrium and that is why they were trying to cool it down?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 19:37:35 GMT
Wait, wasn't there mention that the Venatori were also doing experiments in the Wastes similar to the ones in Western Approach? There they were trying to breach the Veil by other means since the Anchor was out. So couldn't the assumption be made that green lyrium is the by-product of experimental attempt #2?
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 24, 2017 20:07:04 GMT
Wait, wasn't there mention that the Venatori were also doing experiments in the Wastes similar to the ones in Western Approach? There they were trying to breach the Veil by other means since the Anchor was out. So couldn't the assumption be made that green lyrium is the by-product of experimental attempt #2? At first I did think that it was some sort of Venatori experiment - now I'm not so sure, especially that in Trespasser Varric's letter mentions that the rifts have opened on their own 'weird glowing fade rocks' appeared and clogged the channel to Kirkwall. However I do think that Venatori went to Hissing Wastes to make experiments, though not necessarily to find a way to open rifts to the Fade, but how to cultivate red lyrium. The place is cold during the night (and companions incessantly complain about it) and Cole mentioned that this makes red lyrium 'less angry' - the desert would be a good place to experiment if temperature drop has effect on red lyrium. Apparently that theory holds true, considering that Emprise du Lion - the main spot where they grow lyrium - has experienced sudden and inexplicable winter storm that basically froze that place. The green glowing fade rocks might have been an unexpected outcome of experimenting with red lyrium - though it may also have something to do with Hissing Wastes themselves. I know some people complain that the place is "empty" and "unnecessary" from story's standpoint, but think all clues point towards it being a massive place where A LOT of weird things are happening, that we're meant to explore without being distracted by main plot - the dwarven ruins on the surface are not a coincidence. Fairel didn't pick that place out of nowhere; the puzzle verses mention that "the sun burned above oceans of sand, but in the sand was Stone, strong and true". The fact that the puzzle utilizes gangue is also suspicious to say the least. Then there are Solas's comments that mention that at one time the place was lush, only for climate to change suddenly - welp, I think there are enough clues to suggest that there might be a Titan buried underneath. It would also explain both pockets of red lyrium sprouting out of the sand, the strange glowing green rocks and this weird thing: ... which has utterly destroyed Venatori camp, and looks pretty much exactly like rocks sprouting around Vir Dirthara. Then there's of course the weird spirit (?) we can find disguised as Chantry sister that eventually gives Perseverance, although what's the true deal with that thing, I still have no clue.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:12:24 GMT
Does a companion or Inky actually mention it is Green Lyrium? Because your mention of Kirkwall and the Fade rocks blocking the channel made me remember that a lot of things in the Fade are green. So that might not actually be lyrium we see in the Wastes but parts of the Fade actually being dragged into the Waking world. Which I think is what is happening in Kirkwall. The worlds are starting to merge, the Fade is leaking in, and the barrier (Veil) is starting to break
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 24, 2017 20:17:50 GMT
Does a companion or Inky actually mention it is Green Lyrium? Because your mention of Kirkwall and the Fade rocks blocking the channel made me remember that a lot of things in the Fade are green. So that might not actually be lyrium we see in the Wastes but parts of the Fade actually being dragged into the Waking world. Which I think is what is happening in Kirkwall. The worlds are starting to merge, the Fade is leaking in, and the barrier (Veil) is starting to break No, I don't think anyone mentions that it's green lyrium - 'weird glowing fade rocks' is probably the closest description we got so far.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:22:12 GMT
Does a companion or Inky actually mention it is Green Lyrium? Because your mention of Kirkwall and the Fade rocks blocking the channel made me remember that a lot of things in the Fade are green. So that might not actually be lyrium we see in the Wastes but parts of the Fade actually being dragged into the Waking world. Which I think is what is happening in Kirkwall. The worlds are starting to merge, the Fade is leaking in, and the barrier (Veil) is starting to break No, I don't think anyone mentions that it's green lyrium - 'weird glowing fade rocks' is probably the closest description we got so far. Sitting in the 'it be the Fade leaking in' boat then.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 24, 2017 20:22:28 GMT
Anyway, they certainly look closest to stuff we see the biggest rift under the Breach being made from: .... so "Fade bleeding into the world" is probably our safest bet as to what they are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:26:46 GMT
I concur. I mean it looks exactly like what we see in the Fade during Adamant, just more wispy Fade fog swirling around it.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 25, 2017 3:20:42 GMT
Wait, wasn't there mention that the Venatori were also doing experiments in the Wastes similar to the ones in Western Approach? There they were trying to breach the Veil by other means since the Anchor was out. So couldn't the assumption be made that green lyrium is the by-product of experimental attempt #2? At first I did think that it was some sort of Venatori experiment - now I'm not so sure, especially that in Trespasser Varric's letter mentions that the rifts have opened on their own 'weird glowing fade rocks' appeared and clogged the channel to Kirkwall. Kind of off-topic, but how do you get that Varric letter in Tresspasser? I didn't see it and it sounds like its written by a Varric that doesn't actually show up in the Winter Palace? but at the same time, the letter still sounds like he's friends with you, so I'm confused.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 25, 2017 3:42:33 GMT
At first I did think that it was some sort of Venatori experiment - now I'm not so sure, especially that in Trespasser Varric's letter mentions that the rifts have opened on their own 'weird glowing fade rocks' appeared and clogged the channel to Kirkwall. Kind of off-topic, but how do you get that Varric letter in Tresspasser? I didn't see it and it sounds like its written by a Varric that doesn't actually show up in the Winter Palace? but at the same time, the letter still sounds like he's friends with you, so I'm confused. The location is actually mentioned on a wiki page: "Main plaza - in a building to the top-right of Cassandra's location". I do recall finding it in game, so it's likely there, unless it bugs in some playthroughs.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 26, 2017 13:05:52 GMT
Do you find it morally reprehensible for a mage Lavellan to let Morrigan drink from the Well of Sorrows? I mean, it might seem like neglecting your duty to your people in favor of self-preservation.
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