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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 18:38:14 GMT
I think the spirits of the Well are controlled by Mythal, so it isn't exactly in Mythal's best interest to give away too much information (she has her own agenda after all). Even if the Inquisitor or Morrigan asks, they might end up receiving silence. Better yet, have the spirits mutter unintelligble gibberish just to make it seem as though the spirits are responding, but that the Inquisitor or Morrigan just aren't able to understand it yet. And besides, Mythal loves theatricality. The beginning of DA:2 comes to mind. Also now you've made me realise that Bioware really missed an opportunity for the Inquisitor to ride into the final battle against Corypheus ON A DRAGON!!But I guess there's always DA:4. One day we'll ride a dragon. One day... Better yet, Mythal giving the next protag a piggy back ride on her dragon form XD .. well, in DAI ppl insist into labeling you as 'Herald of Andraste' no matter what your stance on it or wether or not you believe in the Maker. So it's fair game to have the next protag as 'Chosen of Mythal'. Bet it'll be funny playing a devout HN who has no choice but be a part of Mythalen lol. SO THIS! Been waiting 3 games to ride a dragon BW!! :srs: Opportunity missed. *Edit: Balls, top. Nan is awesome
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 28, 2017 21:14:15 GMT
The frilly cake one was too cute. I have a feeling Lavellan is going to wake up to an empty box of frilly cakes. And Solas will be nowhere to be found. Just a trail of crumbs to an Eluvian remain. ~_~.... Now I have an image of Lavellan setting traps on Solas everywhere with frilly cakes as bait. "Report." "Dread Wolf, we stumbled on a... shrine of some kind." "Was this shrine unusual?" "It... it was covered in Orlesian cupcakes." "Fascinating. What else?" "There was a large stucco wall behind it, completely unpainted. It was attended by several spirits who said they come from the deepest Fade. Also, there was an enormous pile of pelts on it. Sign said... excuse me while I translate... 'half off on all furs'. What a strange place, no?" ... "Dread Wolf?" ... "Solas?" ... *loud crashing and snapping noises* "Solas! Are you in need of help?" *muted thrashing and elven curses* *sounds of battle* *chewing sounds?* *more battle sounds* *undignified yelping* "No! Nothing you need concern yourself with!"
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 29, 2017 1:29:52 GMT
My Lavellan was a rogue, not a mage. She had the Arcane Knowledge perk because she was intelligent and curious, and clearly saw that knowing about magic would be of use to her in trying to figure out how to defeat an ancient mage. Because of the Arcane Knowledge, she had a conversational tree with Morrigan where she (my Inquisitor) figures out that the Well places a geas on the drinker. Still, she drank from the Well because Solas strongly counselled not to let Morrigan drink it, and also not to leave it for Corypheus. So then she asked him if he would drink it, and we know what happens with that! Well, that didn't really leave her with any options. Morrigan was too ambitious and also rather insulting since she says that it would be wasted on my Lavellan since she is not a mage. (My Lavellan had some pride!) Solas wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. When my Lavellan suggested that maybe Abelas was right and they SHOULD destroy it, both Solas and Morrigan told her that was a bad idea. So, in the end, when all other options seemed to be worse, she chose the one where she drinks the Well herself. And then Solas yelled at her in the tower later. Can't win. XD
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Post by Addictress on Apr 29, 2017 2:27:40 GMT
I'm obsessed with this idea of an epic Dragon Age film. I dream about it all the time. ;___; I wish I knew more video editing tricks.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 29, 2017 4:09:55 GMT
I'm obsessed with this idea of an epic Dragon Age film. I dream about it all the time. ;___; I wish I knew more video editing tricks. Fun song.
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Post by fylimar on Apr 29, 2017 8:17:43 GMT
I was on a fantasy convention las tweek and there was a couple doing a really great Solas & Lavellan cosplay - here is a pic: I told them about the board and the big Solas thread here and they wanted to check it out.
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Post by CapricornSun on Apr 30, 2017 18:36:25 GMT
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Post by Sifr on May 1, 2017 21:31:25 GMT
Listening to the soundtrack again got me wondering... does anyone else hear subtle musical cues reminiscent of the main "Inquisition theme" and "Journey to Skyhold" present in Solas' theme? With the role that Solas had in the foundation of the Inquisition, seems oddly fitting his theme should have some kind of overlap with the Inquisitor's theme, as well as subtly hint at his connection to Skyhold. (Or am I simply imagining hearing this?)
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Post by Auirel on May 2, 2017 1:34:48 GMT
No I hear it too. They sort of complement each other, enough that I wonder if you might be able to combine the themes together somehow. Makes complete sense that his theme would mirror the Inquisitor's, the more I see Solas as a "fallen" version of the Inquisitor, the more I care for the conflict between them and the more compelling villain he becomes. Good villains make protagonists and players wonder what they would do if they were forced into the same position as the villain. Would they have acted differently, without the benefit of hindsight?
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Post by lynroy on May 2, 2017 1:40:49 GMT
You're not imagining it. The first ~30 seconds of "Journey to Skyhold" is one of the melodies used for his Trespasser theme.
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Post by midnight tea on May 2, 2017 2:09:05 GMT
Listening to the soundtrack again got me wondering... does anyone else hear subtle musical cues reminiscent of the main "Inquisition theme" and "Journey to Skyhold" present in Solas' theme? With the role that Solas had in the foundation of the Inquisition, seems oddly fitting his theme should have some kind of overlap with the Inquisitor's theme, as well as subtly hint at his connection to Skyhold. (Or am I simply imagining hearing this?) I'm not surprised. They are supposed to be counterparts after all, Inky and Solas.
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Post by arvaarad on May 2, 2017 2:20:16 GMT
Good villains make protagonists and players wonder what they would do if they were forced into the same position as the villain. Man, wouldn't it be terrible if the Inquisitor was forced to choose between saving countless strangers, or a couple friends? Especially if those strangers lived very different lives, lives that lacked the freedom and magic the Inquisitor enjoyed. In a situation like that, someone like Solas might temporarily ally with the strangers, even fight the Venatori with them, only to leave them to burn. They aren't really people, anyway. His people, few as they may be, are more important. But the Inquisitor is a hero. With the exception of a few evil playthroughs, I'm sure most players got the dreadnought home safe and sound.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 2, 2017 2:29:37 GMT
No I hear it too. They sort of complement each other, enough that I wonder if you might be able to combine the themes together somehow. Makes complete sense that his theme would mirror the Inquisitor's, the more I see Solas as a "fallen" version of the Inquisitor, the more I care for the conflict between them and the more compelling villain he becomes. Good villains make protagonists and players wonder what they would do if they were forced into the same position as the villain. Would they have acted differently, without the benefit of hindsight? I'm leary about becoming too invested in the conflict between them cus then I want to have the Inquisitor be the protag in the next game. And, even though I know there's good reason for it happening, I also know its possibly a long shot. But I suppose my hopes are already too high. And man it would just be so cool I can't help but hope for it.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 2, 2017 2:32:15 GMT
Good villains make protagonists and players wonder what they would do if they were forced into the same position as the villain. Man, wouldn't it be terrible if the Inquisitor was forced to choose between saving countless strangers, or a couple friends? Especially if those strangers lived very different lives, lives that lacked the freedom and magic the Inquisitor enjoyed. In a situation like that, someone like Solas might temporarily ally with the strangers, even fight the Venatori with them, only to leave them to burn. They aren't really people, anyway. His people, few as they may be, are more important. But the Inquisitor is a hero. With the exception of a few evil playthroughs, I'm sure most players got the dreadnought home safe and sound. There is the mitigating factor that the Dreadnought is not "countless" strangers and the whole thing smacks of a setup by the Qunari to test Bull's loyalty if you read btwn the lines as you go through it, but still a good point.
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Post by arvaarad on May 2, 2017 2:57:31 GMT
Man, wouldn't it be terrible if the Inquisitor was forced to choose between saving countless strangers, or a couple friends? Especially if those strangers lived very different lives, lives that lacked the freedom and magic the Inquisitor enjoyed. In a situation like that, someone like Solas might temporarily ally with the strangers, even fight the Venatori with them, only to leave them to burn. They aren't really people, anyway. His people, few as they may be, are more important. But the Inquisitor is a hero. With the exception of a few evil playthroughs, I'm sure most players got the dreadnought home safe and sound. There is the mitigating factor that the Dreadnought is not "countless" strangers and the whole thing smacks of a setup by the Qunari to test Bull's loyalty if you read btwn the lines as you go through it, but still a good point. That's fair, there's only a hundred of them vs. the 7 Chargers. Which I assume is a much closer ratio than "all of Thedas" vs... however many elves count as the People? How many ancient elves are there, exactly? Huh. Knowing the amount would really give more context to Solas' plan. It's very different if he's saving, like, 9 people, or if there's a huge bank of uthenera coffins chilling somewhere and he's saving a couple million. Plus there's the whole "is Thedas going to eventually be destroyed anyway, and Solas is choosing a nicer (if maybe quicker) apocalypse?" question. Gah, DA4 can't come soon enough!
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Post by midnight tea on May 2, 2017 3:25:34 GMT
There is the mitigating factor that the Dreadnought is not "countless" strangers and the whole thing smacks of a setup by the Qunari to test Bull's loyalty if you read btwn the lines as you go through it, but still a good point. That's fair, there's only a hundred of them vs. the 7 Chargers. Which I assume is a much closer ratio than "all of Thedas" vs... however many elves count as the People? How many ancient elves are there, exactly? Huh. Knowing the amount would really give more context to Solas' plan. It's very different if he's saving, like, 9 people, or if there's a huge bank of uthenera coffins chilling somewhere and he's saving a couple million. Plus there's the whole "is Thedas going to eventually be destroyed anyway, and Solas is choosing a nicer (if maybe quicker) apocalypse?" question. Gah, DA4 can't come soon enough! Well, we do know that it ain't as simple as "saving my own" - we know he does it for spirits who suffer locked behind the Veil, and we don't know how many of those are there, but probably a lot (judging just from how many were pulled from the Fade by Breach and rifts). And we know he also considers cutting modern Thedosians from conscious connection to the Fade as a terrible thing and he tries to do something about that too. edit: ... of course... I think that it's quite possible the bombshell in DA4 is that Solas' people... are ALL people They just don't remember it/are apart from themselves. How did Solas put it? 'The Veil took everything from the elves... even themselves' and 'the return of my people means the end of yours' (translates: *HUGE WINK AND NUDGE*)
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Post by arvaarad on May 2, 2017 3:56:40 GMT
That's fair, there's only a hundred of them vs. the 7 Chargers. Which I assume is a much closer ratio than "all of Thedas" vs... however many elves count as the People? How many ancient elves are there, exactly? Huh. Knowing the amount would really give more context to Solas' plan. It's very different if he's saving, like, 9 people, or if there's a huge bank of uthenera coffins chilling somewhere and he's saving a couple million. Plus there's the whole "is Thedas going to eventually be destroyed anyway, and Solas is choosing a nicer (if maybe quicker) apocalypse?" question. Gah, DA4 can't come soon enough! Well, we do know that it ain't as simple as "saving my own" - we know he does it for spirits who suffer locked behind the Veil, and we don't know how many of those are there, but probably a lot (judging just from how many were pulled from the Fade by Breach and rifts). And we know he also considers cutting modern Thedosians from conscious connection to the Fade as a terrible thing and he tries to do something about that too. edit: ... of course... I think that it's quite possible the bombshell in DA4 is that Solas' people... are ALL people They just don't remember it/are apart from themselves. How did Solas put it? 'The Veil took everything from the elves... even themselves' and 'the return of my people means the end of yours' (translates: *HUGE WINK AND NUDGE*) Hmmmmm, that's an interesting idea. Though if the change is that dramatic, I imagine it doesn't make much difference to most people. Their current "self" would still die, being replaced by someone radically different from their current personality. I do assume that there's some kind of rebirth involved. The Ragnarök parallels are so strong. We've got a goddess (Sól) being devoured by the wolf, with her daughter taking her place. We've got a hero (Týr) binding the wolf, and losing their hand in the process. We've got the sky ripping open. We've got great earthquakes. We've got the giants awaking from their slumber and fighting the gods. And there's a trickster god who is kin to both. In Norse mythology, every apocalypse is followed by a rebirth. Though if I recall correctly, the number of survivors who supposedly repopulate the world is pretty dang small. Something like two people. So... that probably doesn't bode well for Thedas.
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Post by midnight tea on May 2, 2017 4:12:28 GMT
Well, we do know that it ain't as simple as "saving my own" - we know he does it for spirits who suffer locked behind the Veil, and we don't know how many of those are there, but probably a lot (judging just from how many were pulled from the Fade by Breach and rifts). And we know he also considers cutting modern Thedosians from conscious connection to the Fade as a terrible thing and he tries to do something about that too. edit: ... of course... I think that it's quite possible the bombshell in DA4 is that Solas' people... are ALL people They just don't remember it/are apart from themselves. How did Solas put it? 'The Veil took everything from the elves... even themselves' and 'the return of my people means the end of yours' (translates: *HUGE WINK AND NUDGE*) Hmmmmm, that's an interesting idea. Though if the change is that dramatic, I imagine it doesn't make much difference to most people. Their current "self" would still die, being replaced by someone radically different from their current personality. I do assume that there's some kind of rebirth involved. The Ragnarök parallels are so strong. We've got a goddess (Sól) being devoured by the wolf, with her daughter taking her place. We've got a hero (Týr) binding the wolf, and losing their hand in the process. We've got the sky ripping open. We've got great earthquakes. We've got the giants awaking from their slumber and fighting the gods. And there's a trickster god who is kin to both. In Norse mythology, every apocalypse is followed by a rebirth. Though if I recall correctly, the number of survivors who supposedly repopulate the world is pretty dang small. Something like two people. So... that probably doesn't bode well for Thedas. It is probably the reason why there ain't much difference for Solas between actual death and "dramatic change". Heck, perhaps this is what "death" is to immortal ancient elves like Solas in the first place. After all, it's already been established that one thing Solas detests more than, say, slavery is what Qunari do to people, which is taking their free will/messing with freedom of thought. So he'd be as icky to basically messing with people's freedom to choose what they are or messing with their mind as he'd be with, say, mass genocide. Like - this would not be a convenient cop out, nor it logically should be, because a person dramatically changing or not remembering their past selves means that hose past selves are as good as dead. I kinda wonder if it is actually the reason why the Avvar - the people most closely based on Scandinavians - believe in rebirth (though they also believe in reincarnation)... On the other hand it's not like DA follows one mythology to a T There are as many similarities to greek myths after all.
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Post by arvaarad on May 2, 2017 4:44:17 GMT
It is probably the reason why there ain't much difference for Solas between actual death and "dramatic change". Heck, perhaps this is what "death" is to immortal ancient elves like Solas in the first place. I read a theory, which I really hope is true, that elven gods are shaped by the beliefs of their worshippers. So, like powerful spirits, they'd regrow after death, but they wouldn't be quite the same. The Fade would shape them according to what people think of them. Meaning that if Solas died now, after all the Dalish tales, he'd be reborn as the Dread Wolf in truth. So, "immortal", but with a pretty huge catch: they might come back as the antithesis of all they stood for. This seems plausible to me given the way the Avvar gods operate, and the ancient elves' suspicious similarities to spirits. Besides, it's pretty well signposted that killing Solas is Probably A Bad Idea.
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Post by midnight tea on May 2, 2017 5:32:32 GMT
It is probably the reason why there ain't much difference for Solas between actual death and "dramatic change". Heck, perhaps this is what "death" is to immortal ancient elves like Solas in the first place. I read a theory, which I really hope is true, that elven gods are shaped by the beliefs of their worshippers. So, like powerful spirits, they'd regrow after death, but they wouldn't be quite the same. The Fade would shape them according to what people think of them. Meaning that if Solas died now, after all the Dalish tales, he'd be reborn as the Dread Wolf in truth. So, "immortal", but with a pretty huge catch: they might come back as the antithesis of all they stood for. This seems plausible to me given the way the Avvar gods operate, and the ancient elves' suspicious similarities to spirits. Besides, it's pretty well signposted that killing Solas is Probably A Bad Idea. I'm not really sure if Evanuris are the same as Avvar gods (or if Avvar's beliefs in how rebirth works are accurate) - after all, Mythal "clawed her way through the ages" and basically returned back to the living world, likely with a lot of her memories unscathed. What it seems that happened is that Flemeth's despair and craving of revenge is what allowed her to take the final leap. Of course, we don't know how much Flemeth's own personality and wanting to take vengeance has shaped the surviving wisp Mythal, but I don't really think we can claim that it was just some spirit that took her mantle... because how on earth Flemeth would know anything about ancient elven goddess, especially than not even the remaining elves remembered anything of her being murdered, or how she was in reality? It had to be something of original Mythal - so much in fact, that even Solas fully recognizes that it's her when he says that the first of his people don't die so easily. But then there's of course lyrium!ghost Leliana and spirit of Justinia. Like... there's no difference between lyrium ghost and original Leliana - they're basically indistinguishable till the very end. I don't think anyone can claim that she's 'fake'. So just like in case of spirit of Justinia - if they identify so strongly with their past selves then, as Solas said, how can we say they're not? That posits interesting questions about consciousness and identity - if a given entity begins identifying with someone, to a point of somehow sharing the same memories that has shaped the previous 'selves', are they really something different?
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Post by arvaarad on May 2, 2017 9:24:59 GMT
I read a theory, which I really hope is true, that elven gods are shaped by the beliefs of their worshippers. So, like powerful spirits, they'd regrow after death, but they wouldn't be quite the same. The Fade would shape them according to what people think of them. Meaning that if Solas died now, after all the Dalish tales, he'd be reborn as the Dread Wolf in truth. So, "immortal", but with a pretty huge catch: they might come back as the antithesis of all they stood for. This seems plausible to me given the way the Avvar gods operate, and the ancient elves' suspicious similarities to spirits. Besides, it's pretty well signposted that killing Solas is Probably A Bad Idea. I'm not really sure if Evanuris are the same as Avvar gods (or if Avvar's beliefs in how rebirth works are accurate) - after all, Mythal "clawed her way through the ages" and basically returned back to the living world, likely with a lot of her memories unscathed. What it seems that happened is that Flemeth's despair and craving of revenge is what allowed her to take the final leap. Of course, we don't know how much Flemeth's own personality and wanting to take vengeance has shaped the surviving wisp Mythal, but I don't really think we can claim that it was just some spirit that took her mantle... because how on earth Flemeth would know anything about ancient elven goddess, especially than not even the remaining elves remembered anything of her being murdered, or how she was in reality? It had to be something of original Mythal - so much in fact, that even Solas fully recognizes that it's her when he says that the first of his people don't die so easily. But then there's of course lyrium!ghost Leliana and spirit of Justinia. Like... there's no difference between lyrium ghost and original Leliana - they're basically indistinguishable till the very end. I don't think anyone can claim that she's 'fake'. So just like in case of spirit of Justinia - if they identify so strongly with their past selves then, as Solas said, how can we say they're not? That posits interesting questions about consciousness and identity - if a given entity begins identifying with someone, to a point of somehow sharing the same memories that has shaped the previous 'selves', are they really something different? Right, and the flip side of that idea: are older versions of me just impersonating the person that I was before? Is the younger version dead, their body stolen by an imposter (me) who happens to share their memories? There's no way to tell if the younger version "died", since the current version of me thinks they're the real one. At any moment I could be replaced by someone with my memories, and they'd fully believe they'd lived my life. It's kind of horrifying, but kind of useful at the same time. Especially if my brain is trying to bring up dumb things I did decades ago. Younger-me isn't me. They've graciously given me their memories, so I can learn from their mistakes. But I've replaced their personality with mine. Gradually, I'll pass the torch up to future-me, and the only part of me to survive will be my memories.
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Post by Sifr on May 2, 2017 16:44:18 GMT
There is the mitigating factor that the Dreadnought is not "countless" strangers and the whole thing smacks of a setup by the Qunari to test Bull's loyalty if you read btwn the lines as you go through it, but still a good point. Glad I'm not the only one who thought it might be a secret test of character. Wouldn't have been hard for the Qunari to take an old Dreadnought (that maybe was intended to be scrapped anyway), place only a skeleton crew onboard, so there'd be little collateral damage if Bull decided to go against the Qun and save his men over the ship. Whereas if Bull chose to follow the Qun and save the Dreadnought, the Qunari would lose absolutely nothing. Seems like the kind of stunt they'd pull.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2017 19:33:49 GMT
People also seem to forget that game mechanics make it seem as though the Chargers only comprise 7 people but in reality these are the main chargers, his inner circle so to speak, that have probably been with him the longest. However, according to WoT2, the Chargers true figure is around 50 standing members, still considered small by mercenary standards and more of a task force than a private army. They are also said to be one of the most prestigious companies in all of Thedas.
So the choice is in fact between an elite mercenary band that has absolutely proven their usefulness and loyalty to your organisation, against a dubious alliance with the Qun. So far as I was concerned, the Qunari wanted us to stop red lyrium being shipped to Tevinter to be used in the war against them. We successfully achieved this. Everything that followed was outside of the remit and seemed like a set up from where I was standing. The Qun should have scouted the area better, so either incompetent or failed to pass on vital information. So the loss of the dreadnought was down to them.
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Walter Black
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Post by Walter Black on May 2, 2017 19:34:04 GMT
There is the mitigating factor that the Dreadnought is not "countless" strangers and the whole thing smacks of a setup by the Qunari to test Bull's loyalty if you read btwn the lines as you go through it, but still a good point. Glad I'm not the only one who thought it might be a secret test of character. Wouldn't have been hard for the Qunari to take an old Dreadnought (that maybe was intended to be scrapped anyway), place only a skeleton crew onboard, so there'd be little collateral damage if Bull decided to go against the Qun and save his men over the ship. Whereas if Bull chose to follow the Qun and save the Dreadnought, the Qunari would lose absolutely nothing. Seems like the kind of stunt they'd pull. An interesting theory, but I don't know if I completely buy it. For a number of reasons: 1. The Qunari obsess over not wasting resources, and endangering the dreadnought and crew just to test one spy doesn't seem very utilitarian. Especially when Mark of the Assassin and later Trespasser imply that they have more than enough so that Bull alone wouldn't be that valuable. 2. Setting up all these variables endanger the real mission of keeping red lyrium from getting to Tevinter. There any number of ways the Ben-Hassrath could test Hissrad's loyalty without risking that. 3. Piloting a dreadnought so far outside Qunari controlled waters also runs the risk, however unlikely, of outsiders getting gattlok from the sip's wreckage.
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Post by Walter Black on May 2, 2017 19:58:20 GMT
People also seem to forget that game mechanics make it seem as though the Chargers only comprise 7 people but in reality these are the main chargers, his inner circle so to speak, that have probably been with him the longest. However, according to WoT2, the Chargers true figure is around 50 standing members, still considered small by mercenary standards and more of a task force than a private army. They are also said to be one of the most prestigious companies in all of Thedas. So the choice is in fact between an elite mercenary band that has absolutely proven their usefulness and loyalty to your organisation, against a dubious alliance with the Qun. So far as I was concerned, the Qunari wanted us to stop red lyrium being shipped to Tevinter to be used in the war against them. We successfully achieved this. Everything that followed was outside of the remit and seemed like a set up from where I was standing. The Qun should have scouted the area better, so either incompetent or failed to pass on vital information. So the loss of the dreadnought was down to them. From character standpoint, Demands of the Qun works since Iron Bull would never have willing choose between the Qun and the Bull's Chargers until forced to. From a logic and tactical standpoint however, it's a mess. By this point in the story, both the Inquisition and Chargers knew that they could face Venatori Mages at any time, and should adapt accordingly. Even if the Inquisition couldn't marshal proper support lest the Venatori get tipped off, the Chargers couldn't work with Inquisition Scouts already in the area, and/or The Blades of Hessarian? They couldn't hit and run, have Dalish put up barriers while Rocky, Skinner and other archers throw suppression fire? They could beat Envy, but not a couple of glass cannons? It seems another instance of Bioware weakening characters in order manufacture a false dilemma.
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