The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

Hello Eggthread. What news?

To hop in on the topic, I'm ok with the idea of un-romanced characters hooking up on their own. But I reserve the right to side-eye and judge the actual pairings. I was fine with Tali and Garrus. I would've liked seeing Ash and Vega together, had she lived in my playthrough. But Fenris and Isabela? NOPE - good thing I romanced him. I'm also not crazy about Dorian and Bull because I think Dorian can do worlds better (just not my Inquisitor). There I said it, now come at me.

Also I don't know if Peebee and Jaal actually hookup if you leave them both alone but let's just say I would throw her out the airlock before I let her lay a blue finger on my Jaal, EVEN if there was a universe in which I didn't romance him, which there ISN'T.

Bonus reaction to Zaeed trying to get with Samara: :lmfao:

Well he does state that he intends to restore the 'world of the elves' which means that 'this world MAY die', plus redeeming Inquisitor does state that Solas wouldn't have to destroy the world and will set out o prove it to him - so it'd seem that any potential world destruction would be the side effect of his actions rather than means to an end. On the other hand he does say that 'the return of my people means the end of yours'... though what that means is anybody's guess. 'End' doesn't necessarily means death, though there's also no saying what 'death' means to an immortal being - especially that Solas tells us that he's on din'anshiral, which is the path of death, but at the same time alludes through Cole that he will walk that path alone forever.

In other words... until we get more information we may as well speculate our brains away and not come to solid conclusion ~_~''' At this point it'd seem that the whole thing is vague on purpose.

Honestly, anyone who thinks that genocide is Solas' end goal didn't pay enough attention to his character or to the end of Trespasser. It's a simplistic interpretation of his motivations that just reduces him (And the story in general) to some Saturday cartoon plot. "Hey, this guy wants to kill everyone because he doesn't like them! And that's bad!"

Solas can be shockingly ruthless but he's not genocidal. He'll absolutely make some questionable sacrifices to achieve what his goal - and that's what makes him a villain - but his goal itself isn't necessarily objectionable. Weekes said it himself when he said Solas is a character who does the wrong thing for the right reasons. Even on low-approval runs where he's so done with the world's bullshit, he hasn't got active hatred for people so much as ho-hum disappointment. Less "I actively hate you and will enjoy watching you all burn" and more "Oops, screwed that batch up, well, scrape it into the trash and try again."

...Which itself makes me think of Solas as something like, Iunno, Shiva. A cosmic destroyer who just cyclically shows up and wrecks shit because the universe is a circle of death and rebirth or some poetic nonsense like that.

Well, if we're comparing Elvhen gods to superheroes, then Solas would be more like Superman than Batman. Bruce Wayne is a mask for Batman, while Superman is mask for Clark Kent - an alien who is hiding in plain sight (he doesn't even uses glasses for that!), not really bringing attention to himself, but who dons of the mantle of a superhero when he has to do things a mere mortal can't. Where Solas differs from Superman is, naturally, that he's not the big boy scout, but he still tries to desperately hold to at least some of his principles, which make him - in part at least - save the South and warn even disliked Inquisitor of his plans, even if it'd be more logical to let Qunari pass through his domain and fulfill their mission, then just shut the mirrors behind them and let chaos reign.

But anyway... I don't really think anybody is arguing for Fen'Harel is not a part of Solas. It is - but it's just a part of him that is now threatening to overwhelm him. Kinda like Leliana with whom he shares an arc - she's a goody two-shoes who has a dark streak, that comes forth the more her faith is broken and the more questionable stuff she has to do; and if we don't help her remember her principles, she becomes what she was afraid to become: which is her mentor, Marjolaine. I believe the devs on some con literally stated that this is what happens to her in case we harden her in DAI. So the risk for Solas is that he'll fully embrace Fen'Harel while forget the real self. Even spirit!Cole tells us in Trespasser that he'll help to 'remember who he is', so it's not that hard to guess that we're sort of fighting for his soul now.

As for Solas 'not having personality we might associate with one'... well, tricksters are tricksters because they trick people/gods. Prometheus is a trickster. And Solas is very much inspired by Prometheus. Their MO is using their considerable intelligence to outsmart their opponents.

Solas seems pretty tricksy to me. He hung out with the elite of a world for a year, 'helping' them help make his own secret goals more attainable. And a lot of folk stories about tricksters have the trickster's plan backfiring on them in some way - usually though not always a way that is humourous to the audience. Similarly, Solas' plans have definitely not always worked out according to his wishes, though his backfires are usually more terrifying to the audience than humourous. "Whoops, didn't MEAN to completely alter the nature of this world... I was just trying to help. Honest!"

I'm breaking the quote train because I'm a rebel like that...and I'm on my phone.

It's interesting that the trickster is usually portrayed as getting enjoyment from the act of fooling people, which doesn't seem to fit Solas until you consider his dialogue in WEWH. He misses intrigue and political gamesmanship. While the actions he took to create the Veil may not fit with the traditional view of a trickster good I wonder if hos behavior prior to that did.

Solas may not seem to fit the trickster image to us but we should not forget that he managed to persuade/trick/outsmart 7 Evanuris and catch them in his trap. Naturally their followers would think he must have used underhanded trickery to achieve this when it is possible he just out-manoeuvred them (he is after all very good at chess).

Even before he did so they were warning their followers against him by suggesting a form of trickery by using his "many forms" and his "humble guises" which he uses when "offering advice that seems fair but turns slowly to poison". It was all propaganda by his opponents to suggest that people should not trust him.

This is why the idea of the university scholars that his name really means "rebel wolf" is not strong enough a condemnation. The Evanuris called him the Dread Wolf for a reason, they wanted people to think him untrustworthy and likely to do you harm. That is why the Dalish remember him as a trickster.

Prometheus definitely employs trickery in his legends. He steals fire by hiding it in a plant (Fennel, I think?) and literally just walking out with it. He tricks Zeus into accepting only bones and other non-edibles for sacrifice (Whereas the meat and such went to mankind.) His name, if I recall correctly, essentially translates to "forethinker." (And he's got a brother named Epimetheus whose, well, afterthinker.) 

But I agree. I hear the word "trickster," and I think either Loki or, like, Coyote. Someone grinning and coy who's in it for their own amusement. But Prometheus fits the mold well enough. The biggest criteria is mostly "Uses trickery to do things." 

I don't deny that PW may have referenced Prometheus archetype in developing the character of Solas but that is not why he is called a trickster within the setting. It is the image of him that his enemies wished to promote in order to undermine his rebellion. So Fen'Harel is portrayed as a trickster and untrustworthy. This image then continued to be promoted among the surviving priesthood of the Evanuris who would seem to have been the leaders of the elven communities that were later enslaved by Tevinter. Which is why this is the image the Dalish have of him.

His supporters seem to have dropped off the radar, although apparently not altogether in view of the elven folktale of the "trickster warrior who fought against tyrants". How that survived and not the identity of the "trickster warrior" when you actually have a "trickster god" beats me. Still, even there, the rebel is described as a "trickster".

This is why I say the codex referring to the root of his name being the word for rebel was really a heavy handed means of introducing the idea that Fen'Harel might not have been the malicious trickster portrayed by the Dalish. His name was given him by his enemies and then he adopted it as his own. In his eyes and those of his followers it meant "rebel" but not in the eyes of those who originally gave him the name. They meant for him to be viewed as more than simply a rebel but a harmful, untrustworthy deceiver. Harel = Trickster.

Ah well to the Evanuris may be he was "a traitor to one's kin" but that simply means that the "scholars" have come up with a 3rd interpretation of the word. How they did so without reference to any elves beats me and if they asked the Dalish, who are the only ones who have bothered with trying to understand old elven, why are they coming up with the "traitor" meaning when they already have "trickster" or simply "dread"? It is all very well saying that the elvhen language has multiple meanings but why are these human scholars claiming greater knowledge than the only ones who have even been bothered with keeping the language alive? Without a Thedas equivalent of the Rosetta stone what are they basing their ideas on?


PW did say that originally Solas was intended to be more obviously a trickster type in his dealings with you but then it was decided to make him a more sympathetic character. The romance also had a lot to do with that later image. So the original concept of Fen'Harel was more in keeping with Dalish tradition. That is not to say he wasn't justified in what he did but he was different from the Solas that PW finally wrote. So in a way he was always Fen'Harel and Solas is the new development, in contrast to what is now presented in game. This makes it more difficult to state emphatically what Solas is on a meta-level since his character has undergone change from his original world concept.

Does this mean we will have goth Solas?

I honestly thought Kal Sharok Dwarves or Tevinter people always wearing black.