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Post by Amburu on Nov 24, 2024 7:21:00 GMT
Thanks tea for all the great clarification this is very helpful No, it's not the same place - we don't really know where the prison is Fade-geography-wise, and whether it even matters to ponder where exactly it is, It matters because I'm pretry sure I was about to confuse the two for a while longer 💀 I'm glad i'm going to avoid this considerable mistake but regret prison is a new prison that Solas created to hold the two remaining gods, as their old prison (the Black City) was failing to contain them. This is why there was always a faint sense of urgency in Solas' actions one could sense in Inquisition and Trespasser IDK how THIS slipped my mind 💀 there's so much to process and my brain is so puny... Thank got for the million analysis posts people have been typing over the years I've relied on you all like a lifeline 🙏💕
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 24, 2024 15:20:16 GMT
I just finished. A story 10 years in the making, and some of the best parts (both Solas and Solavellan) of the entire Dragon Age franchise. I was happy with the ending; it was not unexpected, as it was the only realistic way to give Solavellan a happy ending, but of course I still teared up. So happy to see my Inquisitor happy again. She's still one of my favourite game protagonists of all time. And of course, thanks to all Blanketfort residents for your company in the rough months after DAI/Trespasser
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Post by Iddy on Nov 25, 2024 20:05:52 GMT
I just finished. A story 10 years in the making, and some of the best parts (both Solas and Solavellan) of the entire Dragon Age franchise. I was happy with the ending; it was not unexpected, as it was the only realistic way to give Solavellan a happy ending, but of course I still teared up. So happy to see my Inquisitor happy again. She's still one of my favourite game protagonists of all time. And of course, thanks to all Blanketfort residents for your company in the rough months after DAI/Trespasser 10 years in the making isn't quite right, since they basically rebooted production half-way through and ditched the original "Joplin" plan.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 25, 2024 20:53:44 GMT
I just finished. A story 10 years in the making, and some of the best parts (both Solas and Solavellan) of the entire Dragon Age franchise. I was happy with the ending; it was not unexpected, as it was the only realistic way to give Solavellan a happy ending, but of course I still teared up. So happy to see my Inquisitor happy again. She's still one of my favourite game protagonists of all time. And of course, thanks to all Blanketfort residents for your company in the rough months after DAI/Trespasser 10 years in the making isn't quite right, since they basically rebooted production half-way through and ditched the original "Joplin" plan. That is also true to DAO, which was in development for 9 years and originally had different versions. So is DAI (the closest to original version was DA2, which simply didn't have time to refine its story or gameplay). That's just a fairly normal creative process for you. Things get written and changed all the time, and I don't just mean games. Also - the game being rebooted doesn't mean that: A. there wasn't a small dedicated team working on it when the rest of studio worked on something else (there was; we even know from resident dev here that he's spent maybe 3 months on a different project - the rest were basically all DA) B. that they wholesale ditched everything after Joplin morphed to Morrison. In fact, we know from John Epler that the main story beats didn't change much since Trespasser.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 26, 2024 4:13:04 GMT
I just finished. A story 10 years in the making, and some of the best parts (both Solas and Solavellan) of the entire Dragon Age franchise. I was happy with the ending; it was not unexpected, as it was the only realistic way to give Solavellan a happy ending, but of course I still teared up. So happy to see my Inquisitor happy again. She's still one of my favourite game protagonists of all time. And of course, thanks to all Blanketfort residents for your company in the rough months after DAI/Trespasser 10 years in the making isn't quite right, since they basically rebooted production half-way through and ditched the original "Joplin" plan. When you think about it, the story of Solas and Solavellan actually develops over 11-12 years. Solas awakens from uthenera in 9.40 Dragon, and meets Lavellan in 9.41. They reunite (forever ) some time after 9.52. That's at least 11 years.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 26, 2024 4:30:55 GMT
10 years in the making isn't quite right, since they basically rebooted production half-way through and ditched the original "Joplin" plan. When you think about it, the story of Solas and Solavellan actually develops over 11-12 years. Solas awakens from uthenera in 9.40 Dragon, and meets Lavellan in 9.41. They reunite (forever ) some time after 9.52. That's at least 11 years. Most of that time is spent running away, though. You can't outrun destiny, you ancient, stubborn ass!
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Post by Iddy on Nov 26, 2024 12:50:51 GMT
10 years in the making isn't quite right, since they basically rebooted production half-way through and ditched the original "Joplin" plan. That is also true to DAO, which was in development for 9 years and originally had different versions. So is DAI (the closest to original version was DA2, which simply didn't have time to refine its story or gameplay). That's just a fairly normal creative process for you. Things get written and changed all the time, and I don't just mean games. Also - the game being rebooted doesn't mean that: A. there wasn't a small dedicated team working on it when the rest of studio worked on something else (there was; we even know from resident dev here that he's spent maybe 3 months on a different project - the rest were basically all DA) B. that they wholesale ditched everything after Joplin morphed to Morrison. In fact, we know from John Epler that the main story beats didn't change much since Trespasser. There is an important distinction between the creative process and production, with one belonging in the writers room while the other is all encompassing. The latter refers to moments of crisis such as the displacement of resources in Bioware to prioritize Anthem while DA4 was in early production or the shift from live service to single player half-way through. I'd wager only DA2 was quite as messy. DAO was the first game, so a lot of changes had more to do with creating the franchise itself. Regarding the writing process, it is true that you still might identify some key plot points that likely are remnants of old directives such as the origin of the elves or the history between Mythal and the titans. Even so, I find it impossible not to wonder what the final product would have been if we still had Mary Kirby, Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider. Of course their absence had an impact in the main vision. A glaring detour from the original course was the departure from the build up done in post-Inquisition works like The Missing and Tevinter Nights, which obviously were heading towards a more Dread Wolf centric story. It is a shame we didn't get to see the game we were promised when Solas revealed his plan in Trespasser. We likely would have seen more of the elven rebels who gathered to follow Fen'Harel, as it is hinted at in the artwork for DA4.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 26, 2024 16:58:18 GMT
Look what we have here! A small QOL mod, for those who run them. Fix your mage Lavellan's background! Others included as well. Here
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 27, 2024 21:56:29 GMT
Going back to the "what are spirits, are spirits and souls related, etc." I actually remembered something from the Inquisition: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. He actually reiterates this exact sentiment in a banter he has with Emmrich (if we didn't finish Emmrich's questline), and I think it's worth keeping in mind: elves are not spirits with a physical form - they are former spirits who manifested as specific people in physical (or physical enouigh) Thedas. Taking on a form seems to do to spirit something; perhaps grow in complexity or acquire something beyond that form of existence (Solas does mention somewhere that he misses simpler times, aka - more than likely his existence as a spirit).
And while we know that Mythal returned to the Fade as a spirit, it's a little more complicated than that - aside from being stabbed by a very special dagger, she got fragmented (with it being noted that the fragments may be aspects of her former personality rather than the full person) and diminished to a point of having to attach herself to sympathizing living people and very slowly rebuild her power.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 27, 2024 22:29:02 GMT
Going back to the "what are spirits, are spirits and souls related, etc." I actually remembered something from the Inquisition: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. He actually reiterates this exact sentiment in a banter he has with Emmrich (if we didn't finish Emmrich's questline), and I think it's worth keeping in mind: elves are not spirits with a physical form - they are former spirits who manifested as specific people in physical (or physical enouigh) Thedas. Taking on a form seems to do to spirit something; perhaps grow in complexity or acquire something beyond that form of existence (Solas does mention somewhere that he misses simpler times, aka - more than likely his existence as a spirit).
And while we know that Mythal returned to the Fade as a spirit, it's a little more complicated than that - aside from being stabbed by a very special dagger, she got fragmented (with it being noted that the fragments may be aspects of her former personality rather than the full person) and diminished to a point of having to attach herself to sympathizing living people and very slowly rebuild her power. Wait, Solas talks to Emmrich? When??? He has never talked to any of Rook's companions. Is my game bugged??? And yeah, It seems the spirit is.. transformed somehow when taking physical form. Either becoming part of the flesh, or something else. It is worth noting that in the "bad ending" of Joplin, if the veil is torn down, it appears the elves were planned to be returned to spirit form, so possibly the change is not necessarily permanent. I don't know if that should be considered part of the lore, or not. And the "simpler times" was him reminiscing about smack-talking with Elgar'nan. Man, I love that part of the quest so, so much.
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Post by IllustriousT on Nov 27, 2024 22:50:47 GMT
Going back to the "what are spirits, are spirits and souls related, etc." I actually remembered something from the Inquisition: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. He actually reiterates this exact sentiment in a banter he has with Emmrich (if we didn't finish Emmrich's questline), and I think it's worth keeping in mind: elves are not spirits with a physical form - they are former spirits who manifested as specific people in physical (or physical enouigh) Thedas. Taking on a form seems to do to spirit something; perhaps grow in complexity or acquire something beyond that form of existence (Solas does mention somewhere that he misses simpler times, aka - more than likely his existence as a spirit).
And while we know that Mythal returned to the Fade as a spirit, it's a little more complicated than that - aside from being stabbed by a very special dagger, she got fragmented (with it being noted that the fragments may be aspects of her former personality rather than the full person) and diminished to a point of having to attach herself to sympathizing living people and very slowly rebuild her power. Wait, Solas talks to Emmrich? When??? He has never talked to any of Rook's companions. Is my game bugged??? And yeah, It seems the spirit is.. transformed somehow when taking physical form. Either becoming part of the flesh, or something else. It is worth noting that in the "bad ending" of Joplin, if the veil is torn down, it appears the elves were planned to be returned to spirit form, so possibly the change is not necessarily permanent. I don't know if that should be considered part of the lore, or not. And the "simpler times" was him reminiscing about smack-talking with Elgar'nan. Man, I love that part of the quest so, so much. The ones in your active party once you go to Minrathous in act 3.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 27, 2024 23:19:42 GMT
Wait, Solas talks to Emmrich? When??? He has never talked to any of Rook's companions. Is my game bugged??? And yeah, It seems the spirit is.. transformed somehow when taking physical form. Either becoming part of the flesh, or something else. It is worth noting that in the "bad ending" of Joplin, if the veil is torn down, it appears the elves were planned to be returned to spirit form, so possibly the change is not necessarily permanent. I don't know if that should be considered part of the lore, or not. And the "simpler times" was him reminiscing about smack-talking with Elgar'nan. Man, I love that part of the quest so, so much. The ones in your active party once you go to Minrathous in act 3. I figured it had to be then, but he's never said anything to anyone but Rook. Other than insulting the enemies.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 28, 2024 0:14:30 GMT
The ones in your active party once you go to Minrathous in act 3. I figured it had to be then, but he's never said anything to anyone but Rook. Other than insulting the enemies. It is a little bit of a detour from just cutting through the enemies, but there are 2 specific locations where you can trigger banters Solas has with both companions in your party (and this banter being different depending on choices and companion quest completion). I remember seeing a video showing where exactly those locations are, but it was a while ago - if I won't find it, I'll try and screenshot them later.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 28, 2024 6:38:54 GMT
Here's the video showing banter locations:
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Post by Amburu on Nov 28, 2024 13:04:05 GMT
Oooh so that's why all the footage I saw had similar backgrounds... There's only a couple elligible locations 🔍
it's a blast combing the wiki for all the lines involving cole (again)
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 29, 2024 1:42:59 GMT
Going back to the "what are spirits, are spirits and souls related, etc." I actually remembered something from the Inquisition: Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way. Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths. He actually reiterates this exact sentiment in a banter he has with Emmrich (if we didn't finish Emmrich's questline), and I think it's worth keeping in mind: elves are not spirits with a physical form - they are former spirits who manifested as specific people in physical (or physical enouigh) Thedas. Taking on a form seems to do to spirit something; perhaps grow in complexity or acquire something beyond that form of existence (Solas does mention somewhere that he misses simpler times, aka - more than likely his existence as a spirit).
And while we know that Mythal returned to the Fade as a spirit, it's a little more complicated than that - aside from being stabbed by a very special dagger, she got fragmented (with it being noted that the fragments may be aspects of her former personality rather than the full person) and diminished to a point of having to attach herself to sympathizing living people and very slowly rebuild her power. Well now, this is interesting... If you finish Emmrich's quest, and choose to make him lich, he and Solas discuss their individual natures. Emmrich: "I never anticipated a manifested spirit of Pride might lecture me on the nature of sapient being." Solas: "I prefer to be known as Wisdom (yet he still calls himself Solas )." So he does still consider himself to be a spirit in some manner, I guess? This whole topic is so interesting to me.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 29, 2024 4:37:56 GMT
Well now, this is interesting... If you finish Emmrich's quest, and choose to make him lich, he and Solas discuss their individual natures. Emmrich: "I never anticipated a manifested spirit of Pride might lecture me on the nature of sapient being." Solas: "I prefer to be known as Wisdom (yet he still calls himself Solas )." So he does still consider himself to be a spirit in some manner, I guess? This whole topic is so interesting to me. I'm not surprised he still identifies as a spirit, his best friends had all been spirits, and he actually feels like more spirit than elf to me. I wonder how he got the name Solas, if he still thinks of himself as Wisdom? I know there have been thousands of posts about him, I can't remember if anyone had mentioned it.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 29, 2024 4:45:35 GMT
Well now, this is interesting... If you finish Emmrich's quest, and choose to make him lich, he and Solas discuss their individual natures. Emmrich: "I never anticipated a manifested spirit of Pride might lecture me on the nature of sapient being." Solas: "I prefer to be known as Wisdom (yet he still calls himself Solas )." So he does still consider himself to be a spirit in some manner, I guess? This whole topic is so interesting to me. I'm not surprised he still identifies as a spirit, his best friends had all been spirits, and he actually feels like more spirit than elf to me. I wonder how he got the name Solas, if he still thinks of himself as Wisdom? I know there have been thousands of posts about him, I can't remember if anyone had mentioned it. Technically, Pride is a corrupted, or perhaps 'altered' is a better word, form of Wisdom.
After all the crap Mythal put him through, I'm not surprised his nature was twisted. Just like the spirit from his personal mission.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 29, 2024 5:13:23 GMT
I'm not surprised he still identifies as a spirit, his best friends had all been spirits, and he actually feels like more spirit than elf to me. I wonder how he got the name Solas, if he still thinks of himself as Wisdom? I know there have been thousands of posts about him, I can't remember if anyone had mentioned it. Technically, Pride is a corrupted, or perhaps 'altered' is a better word, form of Wisdom.
After all the crap Mythal put him through, I'm not surprised his nature was twisted. Just like the spirit from his personal mission. It's strange, though, to think that someone one day just decided to call him Solas. Was it Mythal or one of the Evanuris? Or did he name himself Solas semi-ironically as he felt himself being turned from his original self?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Nov 29, 2024 5:27:32 GMT
Technically, Pride is a corrupted, or perhaps 'altered' is a better word, form of Wisdom.
After all the crap Mythal put him through, I'm not surprised his nature was twisted. Just like the spirit from his personal mission. It's strange, though, to think that someone one day just decided to call him Solas. Was it Mythal or one of the Evanuris? Or did he name himself Solas semi-ironically as he felt himself being turned from his original self? That is a good question. Abelas renamed himself when his circumstances changed. Perhaps Solas (or do we call him Wisdom now? What is the elven word for that? Dirthara? Ack! ) did too.
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 29, 2024 6:05:03 GMT
It's strange, though, to think that someone one day just decided to call him Solas. Was it Mythal or one of the Evanuris? Or did he name himself Solas semi-ironically as he felt himself being turned from his original self? That is a good question. Abelas renamed himself when his circumstances changed. Perhaps Solas (or do we call him Wisdom now? What is the elven word for that? Dirthara? Ack! ) did too. Thanks, yeah, searching brought me this Cole quote from DAI: "Voice ringing with fullness from both worlds, guiding me to the shining places. He calls himself Pride." I'd forgotten that one.
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Post by Amburu on Nov 29, 2024 11:25:19 GMT
It's strange, though, to think that someone one day just decided to call him Solas. Was it Mythal or one of the Evanuris? Or did he name himself Solas semi-ironically as he felt himself being turned from his original self? Here's my attempt (but i'm no scholar...) : He said "I was Solas first", maybe that's the result of the conscious choice of wisdom to damn themselves at the request of someone they respected, being somewhat aware that there would only be death on that journey as they throw themselves onto the path of commiting many necessary evils because There Was No Alternative, (which the game stresses is typical pride behaviour)(and maybe there really didnt seem to be an alternative at first, with the involvement from those across the sea and stuff... i have no idea what's going on with them lol). When he spawns in the stolen lyrium he's not the same type of lifeform anymore, he's got the 2 sides at all times instead of turning mad like the usual demons we've been fighting... We get close to one side of him during inquisition while rook gets to know the other (rip) but his main journey remains the path of pride until he gets the closure he needed to step away and let go. I also wonder if a rename is on the table and I would very much support it n_n
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Post by roselavellan on Nov 29, 2024 15:45:02 GMT
It's strange, though, to think that someone one day just decided to call him Solas. Was it Mythal or one of the Evanuris? Or did he name himself Solas semi-ironically as he felt himself being turned from his original self? Here's my attempt (but i'm no scholar...) : He said "I was Solas first", maybe that's the result of the conscious choice of wisdom to damn themselves at the request of someone they respected, being somewhat aware that there would only be death on that journey as they throw themselves onto the path of commiting many necessary evils because There Was No Alternative, (which the game stresses is typical pride behaviour)(and maybe there really didnt seem to be an alternative at first, with the involvement from those across the sea and stuff... i have no idea what's going on with them lol). When he spawns in the stolen lyrium he's not the same type of lifeform anymore, he's got the 2 sides at all times instead of turning mad like the usual demons we've been fighting... We get close to one side of him during inquisition while rook gets to know the other (rip) but his main journey remains the path of pride until he gets the closure he needed to step away and let go. I also wonder if a rename is on the table and I would very much support it n_n Yes, I imagine he will revert to Wisdom when he goes to the Fade with Lavellan, no reason not to. I think furthermore Lavellan's love and trust will be a positive influence for the benign aspects of his spirit to persist.
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Post by Amburu on Nov 29, 2024 19:46:37 GMT
Here's my attempt (but i'm no scholar...) : He said "I was Solas first", maybe that's the result of the conscious choice of wisdom to damn themselves at the request of someone they respected, being somewhat aware that there would only be death on that journey as they throw themselves onto the path of commiting many necessary evils because There Was No Alternative, (which the game stresses is typical pride behaviour)(and maybe there really didnt seem to be an alternative at first, with the involvement from those across the sea and stuff... i have no idea what's going on with them lol). When he spawns in the stolen lyrium he's not the same type of lifeform anymore, he's got the 2 sides at all times instead of turning mad like the usual demons we've been fighting... We get close to one side of him during inquisition while rook gets to know the other (rip) but his main journey remains the path of pride until he gets the closure he needed to step away and let go. I also wonder if a rename is on the table and I would very much support it n_n Yes, I imagine he will revert to Wisdom when he goes to the Fade with Lavellan, no reason not to. I think furthermore Lavellan's love and trust will be a positive influence for the benign aspects of his spirit to persist. That's the first thing we're all going for but i would find it poetic for him to be surprised, finding himself transformed into something slightly different after the entire journey he's been on. I imagine it would be pretty emotional,,, (turning spirits into pokemons all of a sudden lmao).
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 29, 2024 20:10:44 GMT
Here's my attempt (but i'm no scholar...) : He said "I was Solas first", maybe that's the result of the conscious choice of wisdom to damn themselves at the request of someone they respected, being somewhat aware that there would only be death on that journey as they throw themselves onto the path of commiting many necessary evils because There Was No Alternative, (which the game stresses is typical pride behaviour)(and maybe there really didnt seem to be an alternative at first, with the involvement from those across the sea and stuff... i have no idea what's going on with them lol). When he spawns in the stolen lyrium he's not the same type of lifeform anymore, he's got the 2 sides at all times instead of turning mad like the usual demons we've been fighting... We get close to one side of him during inquisition while rook gets to know the other (rip) but his main journey remains the path of pride until he gets the closure he needed to step away and let go. I also wonder if a rename is on the table and I would very much support it n_n Yes, I imagine he will revert to Wisdom when he goes to the Fade with Lavellan, no reason not to. I think furthermore Lavellan's love and trust will be a positive influence for the benign aspects of his spirit to persist. There's a dialogue option in the 2nd scene with Inquisitor where Rook can support romanced Lavellan to keep pursuing romance with Solas that basically amounts to "if you two are better people together and are happy, that's what matters". And I do think that's what matters.
Like, I don't really think of Solas as a spirit - he isn't one even by his own admission, even if he sorely misses that early period in his life. He's a person, and as such, he can change and be a better version of himself with someone he loves and supports by his side (and whom he loves and supports and makes better in return).
With everything said... boy do I wonder how exactly he intends to address the healing of the blight's anger and whether we're ever going to explore this, or we at least get some hints from the writers...
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