Moondreamer
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 20, 2016 19:31:01 GMT
Does he have something planned for the Blight and the archdemons though? In the main game, he doesn't seem like he knows much about either. The only thing he'll say is that it's not a good idea to try killing the sleeping dragons (those he probably knows more about than he lets on). But he seems to not know a lot more about the Blight. He also says he had a plan about the Evanuris (had? Does that mean he doesn't anymore? *facepalm*), but doesn't mention the Blight at all in Trespasser. As you say, he really wouldn't have any reason to hide the fact he might have a solution against the Blight. But, perhaps he does anyway. Or he hopes that, once the levels of magic are back to what they used to be, he and others like him would have enough power to contain the darkspawn for good. Hmmm, I'm realizing that I really don't hace much to back that up I guess it's something I have just assumed because it seems reasonable to me The things is his anomosity against the grey warden in Here Lyes the Abbys and the way he talks about the blight with vivienne (I'm putting the whole exchange in spoiler tags, because I'd probably paraphrase it poorly)) Vivienne: You disapprove of Corypheus using the magic of the blight, Solas?
Solas: Every intelligent creature should.
Vivienne: Yet you raise no objection to the Grey Wardens using blood magic?
Solas: Blood magic is no worse than any other. Properly used. But the blight...
Solas: The blight corrupts everything it touches. Those who believe themselves capable of using it safely are mad. Vivienne: I understand that Grey Wardens are connected in some way to the blight. Solas: Then that explains why we saw no old men at Adamant. and the way he "casually" ask Blackwall if he believes that killing the archdemons is the solution to the blight Solas: Your Order... the Grey Wardens... Post-Revelations:
Blackwall: Not my Order, as you well know.
Solas: Of course, but you may still have an answer. Blackwall: What about them?
Solas: The Wardens see themselves as the world's defense against the Blight, do they not?
Blackwall: Yes... why do you sound so skeptical? Doesn't everyone know this?
Solas: When an Archdemon rises, they slay it. What will they do when all the Archdemons are slain?
Blackwall: Retire? Solas: Without Archdemons, there can be no Blights. Is that the reasoning?
Blackwall: Right. Where are you going with this? Solas: Nowhere. I hope they are correct. then with Cassandra Cassandra: You don't think much of the Grey Wardens, Solas.
Solas: They are fools, a fact only amplified by Corypheus' meddling. Cassandra: A harsh assessment–but after Adamant, perhaps not undeserved. even taking to Varric, which defends them, he says "They've bought us some time, I will grant them that" it seemed to me that he had very strong opinions about the subject, I always took it like he's pretending not knowing much about it, but why would he speak so confidently agains them otherwise? Of course , even if he knows about it, that doesn't mean he has a plan that's the part where I'm definitely assuming probably because it fits him having a plan for everything and maybe because I think he would take that problem in consideration for whatever his plans for Thedas are... And that's all I got You do have some really compelling arguments (I just might be bored at work) I guess I'm mostly arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, since my understanding of the fall of Arlanthan includes the Evanuris finding what we now call the Blight in that lyrium mine we find in Trespasser. My only guess is that the way it acts (how the Darkspawn are now searching for the sleeping old gods) is soemthing new that only happened after the raising of the veil. So... Solas would know of his version of the Blight, but probably not understand all the ways it has since changed (it does seem intelligent in some way, does it not? How it manipulate the Darkspawn, and even the old gods/archdemons. I feel some kind of malevolence there that isn't mindless)
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Post by javeart on Dec 20, 2016 19:36:29 GMT
You do have some really compelling arguments (I just might be bored at work) I guess I'm mostly arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, since my understanding of the fall of Arlanthan includes the Evanuris finding what we now call the Blight in that lyrium mine we find in Trespasser. My only guess is that the way it acts (how the Darkspawn are now searching for the sleeping old gods) is soemthing new that only happened after the raising of the veil. So... Solas would know of his version of the Blight, but probably not understand all the ways it has since changed (it does seem intelligent in some way, does it not? How it manipulate the Darkspawn, and even the old gods/archdemons. I feel some kind of malevolence there that isn't mindless) Hmmm, that's true. Though he could still have plans, only not knowing more of how the Blight has evolved could just make another chapter of "another good plan gone very wrong" .
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 20, 2016 20:27:03 GMT
I definitely would not place much reliance on the fact that Solas didn't say more about the Blight if he really know about it. There are a lot of things that Solas avoids talking about where he in fact had knowledge that could have helped. Number one was the fact that he knew Corypheus hadn't been killed in the blast. Number two was the fact that he knew there was a way to cheat death (effectively immortality) that was known to the Evanuris and therefore might just possibly have been discovered by Corypheus considering how obsessed the latter was with finding elven ruins and artefacts.
He does say that drawing on the power of Blight magic/red lyrium is a poisoned chalice. He also seemed to know right at the beginning that the cause of the red lyrium at the site of the explosion was probably down to the magic involved corrupting the lyrium there. (You can miss this comment because it is something of a throwaway line). He definitely knows more about the archdemons and their connection to the Blight than he is letting on.
Then in Trespasser, when you ask him why this world has to die, he is evasive and claims it would be giving you too much information. It is a simple enough question, particularly if he is genuine about wanting you to stop him. However, may be he has good reason for not telling you. Perhaps he is concerned about the backlash against innocent elves if he reveals that the ancient ones were responsible for the Blight.
As for how dropping the Veil might help, I think that has something to do with lyrium and the origins of magical power. Some people in the Chantry teach that lyrium isn't just the essence of magic but the essence of all creation. Certainly the pure form that comes from a living titan would seem to repel darkspawn, so may be that has something to do with it. We know that the Breach disturbed a titan from its slumber. May be dropping the Veil will wake all the titans and their combined efforts will heal the world.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 20:27:43 GMT
Regarding Solas and his sense of urgency: I think there is no doubt that it's tied to the Blight and the Archdemons. I've been wondering if the Elvhen accidentally unleashed the Blight originally when the Titan was slain. Things will rot and decay after death. This can make people and animals sick in our world from bacteria and such. Now let's scale it up to the body of a magical avatar of the planet itself. Scary thought. The Blight in general is the antithesis of life and it's pretty much an undead plague upon the land.
Now, as to how the Archdemons became involved, I think the Elvhen went, "Oh crap, the rotting Titan is poisoning us," and used very powerful blood magic to bind these dragons in a magical sleep underground. Probably in the same (very big) area where the Titan was slain. I think they intended to use the dragons as a lock on the Taint. It's known in lore that dragons are resistant to the Taint (not immune) and that it would take a long time to consume them. Prior to Tevinter, I imagine the Darkspawn population wasn't very high. Mainly some shrieks and genlocks. The ancients might have figured that they could go down and take care of the dragons if needed be. Or considered it good enough until they figured out a solution.
Also, we shouldn't forget the arrogance that members of the Elvhan had. I'm not taking only Solas' word for it. I'm looking at other cultures of the setting, particularly magic based ones. Dorian really nailed it. "Let's go playing with magic we don't understand. It'll make us super powerful, blah blah blah."
I'm betting that leaders turned gods started thinking about using the Taint as a weapon in the civil war. Perhaps one of them might have even tried. I could see Solas finally having enough and severing the connection between the Fade and the material world to stop that from happening.
Now, flashforward to present day Thedas. To a freshly awakened Solas, not only is this a rather colorless world where magic is rare and feared, but there is only two dragons left to hold back the Blight. The human mages stumbled into one of the Elvhan's sanctums and the once low darkspawn population is now in the millions. The Taint has spread very far, even into the lyrium of the Fade itself. The most magically attuned race, the elves, are no position to save themselves, much less help completely stop the Taint.
I also think that part of the reason why Solas wants to uplift the elves is because he might feel that elven magic and the ancient elves are the only people that can contain and/or stop the Taint. Humans with their Wardens have done little more than buy Thedas time; the Dwarves are so mired in tradition and fighting Darkspawn that they've stopped innovating or left the underground;the Qunari beneath him and not worth considering; most modern elves are pale shadows of the ancients or have become more interested in being more like the humans (I.e. Briala,)
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Moondreamer
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Writing is hard. Drawing is harder. I need to do more of both.
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 20, 2016 20:36:06 GMT
Regarding Solas and his sense of urgency: I think there is no doubt that it's tied to the Blight and the Archdemons. I've been wondering if the Elvhen accidentally unleashed the Blight originally when the Titan was slain. Things will rot and decay after death. This can make people and animals sick in our world from bacteria and such. Now let's scale it up to the body of a magical avatar. Scary thought. The Blight in general is the antithesis of life and it's pretty much an undead plague upon the land. Now, as to how the Archdemons came involved, I think the Elvhen went, "Oh crap, the rotting Titan is poisoning us," and used very powerful blood magic to bind these dragons in a magical sleep underground. Probably in the same (very big) are where the Titan was slain. I think they intended to use the dragons as a lock on the Taint. It's known in lore that dragons are resistant to the Taint (not immune) and that it would take a long time to consume them. Prior to Tevinter, I imagine the Darkspawn population wasn't very high. Mainly some shrieks and genlocks. The ancients might have figured that they could go down and take care of the dragons if needed be. Or until they figured out a solution. Also, we shoudn't forget the arrogance that members of the Elvhan had. I'm not taking only Solas' word for it. I'm looking at other cultures of the setting, particularly magic based ones. Dorian really nailed it. "Let's go playing with magic we don't understand. It'll make us super powerful, blah blah blah." I'm betting that leaders turned gods started thinking about using the Taint as a weapon in the civil war. Perhaps one of them might have even tried. I could see Solas finally having enough and severing the connection between the Fade and the material world to stop that from happening. Now, flashforward to present day Thedas. Not only is this a rather colorless world where magic is rare and feared, but there is only two dragons left to hold back the Blight. The human mages stumbled into one of the Elvhan's sanctums and the once low darkspawn population is now in the millions. The Taint has spread very far, even into the lyrium of the Fade itself. The most magically attuned race, the elves, are no position to save themselves, much less help completely stop the Taint. I also think that part of the reason why Solas wants to uplift the elves is because he might feel that elven magic and the ancient elves are the only people that can contain and/or stop the Taint. Humans with their Wardens have done little more than buy Thedas time; the Dwarves are so mired in tradition and fighting Darkspawn that they've stopped innovating or left the underground;the Qunari beneath him and not worth considering; most modern elves are pale shadows of the ancients or have become more interested in being more like the humans (I.e. Briala,) Some very good ideas here and defintiely worth thinkig about Edit: I'm keeping so many notes for possible future fanfics
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 20:48:35 GMT
Semi-related, I think I figured out what those elven artifacts were for. It came to me after replaying the Temple of Dirthamen quest. After you find the pieces of the dead priest, you activate a device that looks identical to the elven artifacts, releasing the priest. Solas will even lament about the priest's fate.
What if we had been helping him undo certain "locks" on some of the prisons for the Elvhan? Say there was certain people (not just the named "gods,") he wanted to bring back to help him remove the Veil and organize his army? Eh, I'm just spitballing and I should probably get some coffee before my caffeine headache gets any worse.
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Post by javeart on Dec 20, 2016 21:28:47 GMT
Semi-related, I think I figured out what those elven artifacts were for. It came to me after replaying the Temple of Dirthamen quest. After you find the pieces of the dead priest, you activate a device that looks identical to the elven artifacts, releasing the priest. Solas will even lament about the priest's fate. What if we had been helping him undo certain "locks" on some of the prisons for the Elvhan? Say there was certain people (not just the named "gods,") he wanted to bring back to help him remove the Veil and organize his army? Eh, I'm just spitballing and I should probably get some coffee before my caffeine headache gets any worse. I remember a litte after DAI was released I read someone saying something along the line, what if Solas is going to use all this artifacts for something else (I don't remember exactly what the theory behind this suspicion was), and I remember thinking, oh come ,on why would be tricking us like that? I distinctively remember thinking that it was bringing suspicion too far so naive, happier times now I take it for granted that he was using us, maybe it's true that activating them helped us strengthen the veil, so it was a good thing to do at that moment, but I think he's surely going to use them some other way now. Lots of elven magic artifacts somehow related to the veil scattered across Thedas I'd actually like it if it was like that, if only because I'd like to see the pieces of his plan coming together, more than just finding out that at some point he managed to get everything he needed. By the end of Trespasser he already has all the eluvians and an army of elves, it seems everything it's going very fast... I'd like to have as much details as possible of the process and not only an explanation when everything is already happend. If learning about all that has no place in DA4, I'd love to see it in a book at least. I think his side of the sotry is really interesting, sometimes I think that more than ours, I really care nothing for the Inquisition, I could have disbanded it the moment we killed Corypheus, it's hard to explain why my Lavellan remained there after that. I think my Lavellan maybe would have liked leaving the Counselors running the Inquisition or do with it whatever they wanted, so she could go work with Briala. Or maybe go looking for someone who could help her understand all the knowledge from the well... But stay there and keep working for the Inquisition I thought the line in the final dialogue in Trespasser that says "my inquistion?" was to say something like "I don't care about the Inquisition at all, I don't consider it mine" Almost nothing in that dialogue fits her :/ That's another tidbit about my canon Lavelan, the Inquisition as an organization meant nothing to her
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 21:41:22 GMT
javeartOh man. Rowan kept the Inquisition together in the end. She had no clan; I missed a WT mission and got them killed off. Her closest friends were Cassandra (now Divine,) Dorian and Varric. The only man she had ever loved was gone. She had nothing left at the end of Trespasser but the Inquisition. She became a part of the Divine's honor guard to remain close to one of the only friends she had left in Thedas. I didn't mean to but she's one of more tragic characters I've ever played. I do think that we'll learn more about how Solas is going to do this. I do think that there might be a book, but I'm cautious after Asunder and TME. I don't want to have the book reveal all of the backstory with almost nothing being mentioned in game. In the meantime, I've been reading reddit, here, tvtropes and a few other places getting ideas. Solas is such an intriguing villain. I really felt like I should have seen it coming. I was around for the majority of the pre-DA:I hype train. There is a concept picture of the Inquisition with everyone standing around the War Table, with the IQ in the middle. It was reminiscent of the "Last Supper" painting with Jesus and the apostles. Someone pointed out that Solas was standing in the same spot as Judas Iscariot and that he was going to betray us somehow. I rolled my eyes and chalked it up to the fans reading too much into every little thing. But those fans were right.
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Post by javeart on Dec 20, 2016 21:58:53 GMT
javeart Oh man. Rowan kept the Inquisition together in the end. She had no clan; I missed a WT mission and got them killed off. Her closest friends were Cassandra (now Divine,) Dorian and Varric. The only man she had ever loved was gone. She had nothing left at the end of Trespasser but the Inquisition. She became a part of the Divine's honor guard to remain close to one of the only friends she had left in Thedas. I didn't mean to but she's one of more tragic characters I've ever played. I do think that we'll learn more about how Solas is going to do this. I do think that there might be a book, but I'm cautious after Asunder and TME. I don't want to have the book reveal all of the backstory with almost nothing being mentioned in game. In the meantime, I've been reading reddit, here, tvtropes and a few other places getting ideas. Solas is such an intriguing villain. I really felt like I should have seen it coming. I was around for the majority of the pre-DA:I hype train. There is a concept picture of the Inquisition with everyone standing around the War Table, with the IQ in the middle. It was reminiscent of the "Last Supper" painting with Jesus and the apostles. Someone pointed out that Solas was standing in the same spot as Judas Iscariot and that he was going to betray us somehow. I rolled my eyes and chalked it up to the fans reading too much into every little thing. But those fans were right. Oh it's true!!! I completely forgot about that!!! I laughed it away too We really should have seen it coming I got her clan killed too in my last pt, which is the my most complete canon pt until now, and I read the wiki not to screw it up clearly I wasn't paying attention or something, I don't know what happened But still, she would have gone elsewhere to do something more meaningful for her. Btw, I too consider Cassandra and Dorian my Lavellan closest friends , and before this last pt I'd say Varric too, but IB grew on me, because I took him with me a lot, and I ended up liking him more through his banter than I did before only with his dialogue in Skyhold... and because I killed the dragons (I usually don't) and got the scene where you get drunk with him, and it's simple, but I like it . edit: it's just too easy to get them killed, I don't know why they did that
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Post by Julilla on Dec 20, 2016 22:03:56 GMT
Semi-related, I think I figured out what those elven artifacts were for. It came to me after replaying the Temple of Dirthamen quest. After you find the pieces of the dead priest, you activate a device that looks identical to the elven artifacts, releasing the priest. Solas will even lament about the priest's fate. What if we had been helping him undo certain "locks" on some of the prisons for the Elvhan? Say there was certain people (not just the named "gods,") he wanted to bring back to help him remove the Veil and organize his army? Eh, I'm just spitballing and I should probably get some coffee before my caffeine headache gets any worse. Or he's leading them into some kind of trap? Holy shit, that is a very interesting theory on the artifacts. Usually everyone jumps to weakening the Veil instead of strengthening it like he says. Or that they merely stabilize the Veil in those areas so that when the Veil is gone, it's less chaotic for the spirits. Thumbs up for that theory!
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 22:21:19 GMT
Semi-related, I think I figured out what those elven artifacts were for. It came to me after replaying the Temple of Dirthamen quest. After you find the pieces of the dead priest, you activate a device that looks identical to the elven artifacts, releasing the priest. Solas will even lament about the priest's fate. What if we had been helping him undo certain "locks" on some of the prisons for the Elvhan? Say there was certain people (not just the named "gods,") he wanted to bring back to help him remove the Veil and organize his army? Eh, I'm just spitballing and I should probably get some coffee before my caffeine headache gets any worse. Or he's leading them into some kind of trap? Holy shit, that is a very interesting theory on the artifacts. Usually everyone jumps to weakening the Veil instead of strengthening it like he says. Or that they merely stabilize the Veil in those areas so that when the Veil is gone, it's less chaotic for the spirits. Thumbs up for that theory! Why thank you. I've actually did two completed runs of DA:I in the last six weeks. My first was my poor archer, and the one I finished last week was my human warrior. She got her happy ending to make up for Rowan's. I noticed that is the only interactive elven artifact that has an explanation attached to it. And we're in an elven temple, so I'm thinking it's some sort of "grandmother of all locks." He could be doing it to free the ancients or to entrap them. Going off of that and the fact that one Bad Thing in Thedas unleashing something much worse, here's some more food for thought. What if he's trying to make sure the right prisons stay locked while opening others? I can see him trying to bring back the more benevolent members of the Evanuris, and I don't think Solas would want the Forgotten Ones coming back. However, since he's one of the masters of plans backfiring, I could see the artifacts releasing more than the people he wants to. Like a certain other well-meaning radical mage in the series. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, Solas is the chief engineer.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 20, 2016 22:44:35 GMT
Or he's leading them into some kind of trap? Holy shit, that is a very interesting theory on the artifacts. Usually everyone jumps to weakening the Veil instead of strengthening it like he says. Or that they merely stabilize the Veil in those areas so that when the Veil is gone, it's less chaotic for the spirits. Thumbs up for that theory! Why thank you. I've actually did two completed runs of DA:I in the last six weeks. My first was my poor archer, and the one I finished last week was my human warrior. She got her happy ending to make up for Rowan's. I noticed that is the only interactive elven artifact that has an explanation attached to it. And we're in an elven temple, so I'm thinking it's some sort of "grandmother of all locks." He could be doing it to free the ancients or to entrap them. Going off of that and the fact that one Bad Thing in Thedas unleashing something much worse, here's some more food for thought. What if he's trying to make sure the right prisons stay locked while opening others? I can see him trying to bring back the more benevolent members of the Evanuris, and I don't think Solas would want the Forgotten Ones coming back. However, since he's one of the masters of plans backfiring, I could see the artifacts releasing more than the people he wants to. Like a certain other well-meaning radical mage in the series. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, Solas is the chief engineer. Personally I think the orbs may be multi-purpose: it just depends what they're...um, 'programmed' to do, I guess. After all, when the orb gets destroyed and Inquisitor asks if it can be fixed, Solas says (IRC) that it can, but it won't restore what was inside of it/what mattered. This also explains why there are quite a few orbs scattered around Vir Dirthara in Trespasser and while we know Solas passed through the library, he never picked one... in fact they're still laying there, used by likely last of trapped Library inhabitants as... bowling balls. Targets? Little Fen'Harel and Mythal statues
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 22:49:04 GMT
Dang it, I had this nice theory about the artifacts and you had to go and ruin it by being logical and stuff. Meanie. Now I'm back to wondering what in the name of Odin the man was having the IQ doing with those things. Grr. He's such a Magnificent Bastard.
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 20, 2016 22:51:29 GMT
Why thank you. I've actually did two completed runs of DA:I in the last six weeks. My first was my poor archer, and the one I finished last week was my human warrior. She got her happy ending to make up for Rowan's. I noticed that is the only interactive elven artifact that has an explanation attached to it. And we're in an elven temple, so I'm thinking it's some sort of "grandmother of all locks." He could be doing it to free the ancients or to entrap them. Going off of that and the fact that one Bad Thing in Thedas unleashing something much worse, here's some more food for thought. What if he's trying to make sure the right prisons stay locked while opening others? I can see him trying to bring back the more benevolent members of the Evanuris, and I don't think Solas would want the Forgotten Ones coming back. However, since he's one of the masters of plans backfiring, I could see the artifacts releasing more than the people he wants to. Like a certain other well-meaning radical mage in the series. If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, Solas is the chief engineer. Personally I think the orbs may be multi-purpose: it just depends what they're...um, 'programmed' to do, I guess. After all, when the orb gets destroyed and Inquisitor asks if it can be fixed, Solas says (IRC) that it can, but it won't restore what was inside of it/what mattered. This also explains why there are quite a few orbs scattered around Vir Dirthara in Trespasser and while we know Solas passed through the library, he never picked one... in fact they're still laying there, used by likely last of trapped Library inhabitants as... bowling balls. Targets? Little Fen'Harel and Mythal statues I think they mean those artefact you can use to "strenghten the veil"? Still, your point stand that they could be soemthing used for more than one purpose, one of them being as some kind of prison.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 23:04:05 GMT
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He might be trying to undo the correct locks to bring back the people he wants to return while keeping the rest locked up. If he did any sort of ritual like the one we learned about in the Temple of Dirthamen, someone could find a way to bring back the Forgotten Ones. Who, by the way, I think are linked directly to the Forbidden Ones, like Imshael. They are also the ones credited with teaching humans blood magic.
I also had a sad thought while I was outside. There is a chance we will see only a few Dalish in the next game and will likely only be able to play a city elf. According to the lore and Dorian, the Dalish aren't around Tenvinter. They could be there and hiding, but I don't think we'll see that much in the game. The focus will likely shift to the city elves for the servant army Solas appears to be building.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 23:28:52 GMT
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He might be trying to undo the correct locks to bring back the people he wants to return while keeping the rest locked up. If he did any sort of ritual like the one we learned about in the Temple of Dirthamen, someone could find a way to bring back the Forgotten Ones. Who, by the way, I think are linked directly to the Forbidden Ones, like Imshael. They are also the ones credited with teaching humans blood magic. I also had a sad thought while I was outside. There is a chance we will see only a few Dalish in the next game and will likely only be able to play a city elf. According to the lore and Dorian, the Dalish aren't around Tenvinter. They could be there and hiding, but I don't think we'll see that much in the game. The focus will likely shift to the city elves for the servant army Solas appears to be building. I love city elves. We couldn't play one in DAI, or it's only fair that elf players are stuck with a flat-ear next time around. Of course, I'm still holding on the hope that we get to play our Inquisitors again. Team Optimism! I think it is possible that Solas is not building an army, but hiding those servants somewhere safe...hoping to protect them from Big Magic 2.0. The Eluvians give him access to places in Thedas no one else seems to know about, so perhaps there is another Dread Wolf sanctuary around. Also, city elves would need A LOT of training to be a decent army. I would hope Solas would have a better plan than that. Who knows? He isn't as smart as he thinks he is, is he? I doubt we'll get to play our Inquisitors again, despite it making sense. They do say at the end that they need to find people that Solas doesn't know. Leliana was right in that Solas knows everything about them. This extends to the Inquisitor his/herself. Any methods the IQ might use Solas could potentially already anticipate. I think the servants are an army and DA:I proves that you need plenty of noncombants to run a military organizations. I'd certainly agree that many of them have no combat training. If memory serves, most alienages wouldn't allow elves to carry any sort of weapon. The servant elves would be great at some practical stuff. Everything from healers (both magical and mundane,) to spies to taking care of little ones. Some would be good at offering ideas on strategy despite not being a fighter, or would have extensive knowledge about the weakness of a powerful noble. They are going to be the majority of his army, much like the infrastructure of the Inquisition was the majority of the player's army. The amount of people on actually out on the field is likely to be far less than the bulk of his army. At least at the beginning while the fighters are coming in and training others.
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 20, 2016 23:47:40 GMT
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. He might be trying to undo the correct locks to bring back the people he wants to return while keeping the rest locked up. If he did any sort of ritual like the one we learned about in the Temple of Dirthamen, someone could find a way to bring back the Forgotten Ones. Who, by the way, I think are linked directly to the Forbidden Ones, like Imshael. They are also the ones credited with teaching humans blood magic. I also had a sad thought while I was outside. There is a chance we will see only a few Dalish in the next game and will likely only be able to play a city elf. According to the lore and Dorian, the Dalish aren't around Tenvinter. They could be there and hiding, but I don't think we'll see that much in the game. The focus will likely shift to the city elves for the servant army Solas appears to be building. I love city elves. We couldn't play one in DAI, or it's only fair that elf players are stuck with a flat-ear next time around. Of course, I'm still holding on the hope that we get to play our Inquisitors again. Team Optimism! I think it is possible that Solas is not building an army, but hiding those servants somewhere safe...hoping to protect them from Big Magic 2.0. The Eluvians give him access to places in Thedas no one else seems to know about, so perhaps there is another Dread Wolf sanctuary around. Also, city elves would need A LOT of training to be a decent army. I would hope Solas would have a better plan than that. Who knows? He isn't as smart as he thinks he is, is he? I still wonder if the city elves aren't leaving of their own volition after hearing rumors of an uprising, and it's not actually Solas calling them. He had many spies for sure (and the rumors might well come from their leaving after Trespasser) but Solas offers no hint that he's building an army. I don't really see why he'd need an army to tear down the veil. Scouts and spies yes, to know what his adversary do, but from his dialogue saying he wants people to have a few years of peace before the end, I doubt he plans for open conflict with anyone. Even if so though, as soon as rumors spread in the alienage that someone somewhere might be planning a "revolution" (not what Solas is doing, but rumors tend to twist the truth) some will be ready to leave everything behind for this ideal. So, Solas might well end up with an army of volunteers he never asked for. I love city elves. We couldn't play one in DAI, or it's only fair that elf players are stuck with a flat-ear next time around. Of course, I'm still holding on the hope that we get to play our Inquisitors again. Team Optimism! I think it is possible that Solas is not building an army, but hiding those servants somewhere safe...hoping to protect them from Big Magic 2.0. The Eluvians give him access to places in Thedas no one else seems to know about, so perhaps there is another Dread Wolf sanctuary around. Also, city elves would need A LOT of training to be a decent army. I would hope Solas would have a better plan than that. Who knows? He isn't as smart as he thinks he is, is he? I doubt we'll get to play our Inquisitors again, despite it making sense. They do say at the end that they need to find people that Solas doesn't know. Leliana was right in that Solas knows everything about them. This extends to the Inquisitor his/herself. Any methods the IQ might use Solas could potentially already anticipate. I think the servants are an army and DA:I proves that you need plenty of noncombants to run a military organizations. I'd certainly agree that many of them have no combat training. If memory serves, most alienages wouldn't allow elves to carry any sort of weapon. The servant elves would be great at some practical stuff. Everything from healers (both magical and mundane,) to spies to taking care of little ones. Some would be good at offering ideas on strategy despite not being a fighter, or would have extensive knowledge about the weakness of a powerful noble. They are going to be the majority of his army, much like the infrastructure of the Inquisition was the majority of the player's army. The amount of people on actually out on the field is likely to be far less than the bulk of his army. At least at the beginning while the fighters are coming in and training others. I am really hoping for at least a dual protagonist game. A new Tevinter-based protag for the close to the ground investigating and fighting (gathering intel and artefacts for dorian? Getting stuck in a Qunari invasion?) while our Inquisitor follows traces of Solas on her side while working with others in finding a solution to the problem he causes, either to stop him or find some way to change his mind. So, we see the plot in a macro kind of way with our Inquisitor and the knowledge they already have of Solas' plan, then there is the more down-to-the-ground bits with the new protag and the way they see mostly the suffering in their neck of the wood and how they get sucked into something much bigger than they are. From that other thread on the general forum, the knew protag is like Hawke with a more human story, while the Inquisitor is at the level of saving the world.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 20, 2016 23:53:11 GMT
MoondreamerBe wary about reading threads on the forums. DA4 hasn't been announced yet at all, so anything you read about the next game should be taken with a grain of salt. Folks are requesting a smaller and more personal story, but I haven't seen any sort of confirmation from the DA team. If I missed something, please let me know.
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 20, 2016 23:55:27 GMT
Moondreamer Be wary about reading threads on the forums. DA4 hasn't been announced yet at all, so anything you read about the next game should be taken with a grain of salt. Folks are requesting a smaller and more personal story, but I haven't seen any sort of confirmation from the DA team. If I missed something, please let me know. Oh... I didn'T read it at all like it's a confirmation of anything, just that going dual protagonist could be a way of doing both types of plots Also, I've been beating the dual protagonist horse since TRespasser came out. Now that I think about it, that horse probably is quite dead by now lol.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 21, 2016 0:11:01 GMT
Moondreamer Be wary about reading threads on the forums. DA4 hasn't been announced yet at all, so anything you read about the next game should be taken with a grain of salt. Folks are requesting a smaller and more personal story, but I haven't seen any sort of confirmation from the DA team. If I missed something, please let me know. Oh... I didn'T read it at all like it's a confirmation of anything, just that going dual protagonist could be a way of doing both types of plots Also, I've been beating the dual protagonist horse since TRespasser came out. Now that I think about it, that horse probably is quite dead by now lol.A Ah, okay. I'm actually against having dual protagnoists for a number of reasons. The main one is that I don't want the writers to divide the story like that. Due to the word budget, we'd get pretty lackluster stories if they went that route. The writing team only has so much spoken dialogue they are allotted for per game. I'd rather have one well written and fleshed out PC than two weaker ones. The results would be pretty sad if they went that route. The IQ would inevitably lose characterization and the new hero wouldn't get enough. I'd want the IQ to return. While the story of the Inquisition is over, it doesn't feel like the story of the Inquisitor is over. I'm not banking on it though. This is Dragon Age and I'm too old to take that kind of sucker bet.
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Post by javeart on Dec 21, 2016 0:14:38 GMT
Stick in the Mud Personally, I'm ok wit city elves too, and it never ocurred to me that Solas could be protecting them from something, but I like the idea a lot. But, even in the sanctuary that we see in Trespasser we're told that he taught slaves to fight. So maybe he teaches a few of them, the more capable or willing to learn? Also, I agree with Natashina though that they could do a lot of things besides figthing, and personally, when I talk about "an army of elves" I do so figuratively. I agree with Moondreamer on this, the kind of secret organization that Solas apparently is used to run doesn't really need an actual army, probably he will avoid open confrontation most of the time? That's how I imagine it at least, more about getting stuff he needs, like ancient elven artifacts (the idea that he might be looking for the Tevinter equivalent of the orbes mentioned earlier makes sense to me) and things like that, though some assassinations or skirmish it's surely required at some points I never really thought about it, can we expect an actual elven rebellion or war of some kind to be part of Solas plan? I imagined he was only getting things ready to do his magic and that's it, but things might be more complicated than that Edit: I do think that he's the one calling them, though it's true we don't really know
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Post by Moondreamer on Dec 21, 2016 0:17:52 GMT
Oh... I didn'T read it at all like it's a confirmation of anything, just that going dual protagonist could be a way of doing both types of plots Also, I've been beating the dual protagonist horse since TRespasser came out. Now that I think about it, that horse probably is quite dead by now lol.A Ah, okay. I'm actually against having dual protagnoists for a number of reasons. The main one is that I don't want the writers to divide the story like that. Due to the word budget, we'd get pretty lackluster stories if they went that route. The writing team only has so much spoken dialogue they are allotted for per game. I'd rather have one well written and fleshed out PC than two weaker ones. The results would be pretty sad if they went that route. The IQ would inevitably lose characterization and the new hero wouldn't get enough. I'd want the IQ to return. While the story of the Inquisition is over, it doesn't feel like the story of the Inquisitor is over. I'm not banking on it though. This is Dragon Age and I'm too old to take that kind of sucker bet. You make good points. Budget isn't something I had in mind when thinking that dual-protagonist was the way to go. I thought of it more like a really good novel, I suppose. It might make a good story if well done and I feel like the Inquisitor's role in things is far from finished (while on the other hand people wanting a new protagonist would have that too). I'd totally settle for the Inquisitor only as a playable character in DA4 (I want closure damnit!) but I would be extremely disappointed if they were to only be a bit NPC like Hawke was, or even something like our advisors in Inquisition. Our Inquisitors are all too different that just wouldn't work at all! They need to be playable. That or having them only appear in codex would really be a worse case scenario for me and would possibly sour me against Bioware enough to have me not buy the game at all.
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Post by Natashina on Dec 21, 2016 0:25:22 GMT
Stick in the Mud Personally, I'm ok wit city elves too, and it never ocurred to me that Solas could be protecting them from something, but I like the idea a lot. But, even in the sanctuary that we see in Trespasser we're told that he taught slaves to fight. So maybe he teaches a few of them, the more capable or willing to learn? Also, I agree with Natashina though that they could do a lot of things besides figthing, and personally, when I talk about "an army of elves" I do so figuratively. I agree with Moondreamer on this, the kind of secret organization that Solas apparently is used to run doesn't really need an actual army, probably he will avoid open confrontation most of the time? That's how I imagine it at least, more about getting stuff he needs, like ancient elven artifacts (the idea that he might be looking for the Tevinter equivalent of the orbes mentioned earlier makes sense to me) and things like that, though some assassinations or skirmish it's surely required at some points I never really thought about it, can we expect an actual elven rebellion or war of some kind to be part of Solas plan? I imagined he was only getting things ready to do his magic and that's it, but things might be more complicated than that Yes, I think it is a part of his plan. Several characters mention that if someone got the elves organized they would have a hell of an army. Possibly one of the biggest in the world. I don't think he's gearing up to attack yet but it's obvious he'll be planning on war. If word got out that someone was behind organizing the missing elves, all of his powers in the world wouldn't save him. A wall of loyal and devouted followers would. By the way, I wanted to mention that I don't think that Solas is putting out some sort of Call like the Archdemon does. I think he did it in a more old-fashioned way, by spreading the world that there was someone powerful to lead the elves into a new golden age. Besides, this rebellion was foreshadowed going back to Origins and it was still going on as of 9:40 Dragon. I don't think you can have Briala executed and she led an elven rebellion. She only stopped because it was better to try to work with Celene or Gaspard than to continue her goals. Now what if she'd had a third option, like say an ally that was a powerful and ancient mage that can turn an enemy to stone with a thought? I also think he's going to need an army for other reasons. For all we know for now, dropping the Veil is going to unleash fun things like the Forgotten Ones, powerful demons and other cute critters. He wants to uplift the elves, not truly destroy the world. In his mind, if most of the other races are wiped out, the elves will stand strong to ensure that they will have a world left to inherit. MoondreamerMy guess is that we might not see the IQ at all. Hawke's return didn't sit well with a lot of players and there is unfortunately a lot more room to screw up an IQ. If they aren't the returning PC, I'd expect a codex entry.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 21, 2016 0:32:56 GMT
Oh... I didn'T read it at all like it's a confirmation of anything, just that going dual protagonist could be a way of doing both types of plots Also, I've been beating the dual protagonist horse since TRespasser came out. Now that I think about it, that horse probably is quite dead by now lol.A Ah, okay. I'm actually against having dual protagnoists for a number of reasons. The main one is that I don't want the writers to divide the story like that. Due to the word budget, we'd get pretty lackluster stories if they went that route. The writing team only has so much spoken dialogue they are allotted for per game. I'd rather have one well written and fleshed out PC than two weaker ones. The results would be pretty sad if they went that route. The IQ would inevitably lose characterization and the new hero wouldn't get enough. I'd want the IQ to return. While the story of the Inquisition is over, it doesn't feel like the story of the Inquisitor is over. I'm not banking on it though. This is Dragon Age and I'm too old to take that kind of sucker bet. I think such scenario would materialize if we assume that both PCs would have the same amount of screen time and comparable amount of interactions - but I don't really think that's the case. We'd likely spend most of our time with new PC, while we'd spend time with Inquisitor during certain parts of stories or more juicy moments. I also don't think if word budget is in jeopardy. Think about it - why would they take word budget from main PC? Rather, instead of creating, say: a few expendable PCs that'd exist and have lines written predominantly for exposition or moving story around, you can easily cut them out and allot the word budget for Inquisitor (and also save the need to design and set those OCs in the world, which includes cutting costs for additional game designs and voiceovers by multiple VAs).
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