procutemeister
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Post by procutemeister on Jan 8, 2017 8:49:43 GMT
It's perfectly fine, sugarquill. I'd like to see your art, though--I'll send you a PM.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 9:16:18 GMT
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CapricornSun
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Post by CapricornSun on Jan 8, 2017 10:52:03 GMT
Oh gosh... what happened here while I was away? Does Capricorn Sun not come around to post art here anymore, because the thread from what I'm seeing could really use that. Hi colonelkillabee ! I'm still here. I've just been a bit busy this past day or two. ^__^; Hi Blanketfort, I am not interested in "getting involved" and prolonging what I'm sure has been a stressful evening for all of us, but I would simply like to add this. I realize that I am a relative newcomer, and I genuinely do not want any trouble or to join the circle of dead-horse-beating. I write this with full humility. That being said, as an artist, I feel that I cannot in good faith allow my art (which reflects me) to be posted on the Blanketfort any longer after this debacle. I really hate to do this, but I've been disappointed in the way this ordeal has been handled. While some arguments have been repeated over the past several pages and I cannot know this person any better than a fellow voice on the Internet, I stand with Lob on most all points he has defended. I really don't want to make a big deal or anything, just to let people know that my creative content will no longer be posted here. I will also ask not to be included in art posts. This really does sadden me as I am truly grateful to those I've met on the Blanketfort who have been absolute delights. However, I do spend most of my time on my Tumblr, where all of my art is posted. In the event that anyone still wants to see my Dragon Age art, feel free to shoot me a personal message asking for my Tumblr URL. Again, I don't want to add fuel to the fire and I am not "whining," I simply wish to notify people. Thank you to everyone who has offered brilliant speculation and art about our favorite Fade Nerd, and support to myself and other artists. I'm sorry it has come to this, sugarquill . But I understand and also noted that your art will not be included in art posts. (Also, it's my birthday today btw guys... *sheepish grin*)
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colonelkillabee
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Post by colonelkillabee on Jan 8, 2017 14:01:28 GMT
Oh gosh... what happened here while I was away? Does Capricorn Sun not come around to post art here anymore, because the thread from what I'm seeing could really use that. Hi colonelkillabee ! I'm still here. I've just been a bit busy this past day or two. ^__^; Hi Blanketfort, I am not interested in "getting involved" and prolonging what I'm sure has been a stressful evening for all of us, but I would simply like to add this. I realize that I am a relative newcomer, and I genuinely do not want any trouble or to join the circle of dead-horse-beating. I write this with full humility. That being said, as an artist, I feel that I cannot in good faith allow my art (which reflects me) to be posted on the Blanketfort any longer after this debacle. I really hate to do this, but I've been disappointed in the way this ordeal has been handled. While some arguments have been repeated over the past several pages and I cannot know this person any better than a fellow voice on the Internet, I stand with Lob on most all points he has defended. I really don't want to make a big deal or anything, just to let people know that my creative content will no longer be posted here. I will also ask not to be included in art posts. This really does sadden me as I am truly grateful to those I've met on the Blanketfort who have been absolute delights. However, I do spend most of my time on my Tumblr, where all of my art is posted. In the event that anyone still wants to see my Dragon Age art, feel free to shoot me a personal message asking for my Tumblr URL. Again, I don't want to add fuel to the fire and I am not "whining," I simply wish to notify people. Thank you to everyone who has offered brilliant speculation and art about our favorite Fade Nerd, and support to myself and other artists. I'm sorry it has come to this, sugarquill . But I understand and also noted that your art will not be included in art posts. (Also, it's my birthday today btw guys... *sheepish grin*) Aww, sorry this foolishness happened on your birthday, but you're still here and that makes me happy to see and, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
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colonelkillabee
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Post by colonelkillabee on Jan 8, 2017 14:06:45 GMT
...That was 'drama' ? Huh, for me this is just some minor bickering soon to be drowned in the ever-flowing current of the thread Either way, I'm off to cure headache and actually get some goddamn sleep... You don't want old day drama, lol, but at least in the good ol days, the drama had something to do with Solas, and wasn't as silly as people misinterpreting descriptions of skin color, or taking concept art out of context. Fallout 4's tinker tom used to be an old white guy with a big grey beard. Now, he's the exact opposite of that, lol. Just as an example, I know Fallout is a Bethesda game. There's not a representation issue in Bioware games, it's basically the SJW capital of gaming, and yet there's still issues like this.
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CapricornSun
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Currently in D&D RPing hell and I love it! *v* <3
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Post by CapricornSun on Jan 8, 2017 14:45:41 GMT
Aww, sorry this foolishness happened on your birthday, but you're still here and that makes me happy to see and, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Thank you, Colonel! Of course I'll still be around. And it's nice seeing you around as well!
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Post by forgetmenot on Jan 8, 2017 15:25:19 GMT
First... I'm not an artist so please don't judge haha! But I really wanted to draw Solas and here's my 2nd attempt. I would like to learn to draw so sought out some advice from other artists and they helped a huge amount! I still have a long, long, loooooong way to go but I so enjoyed drawing this. It was soothing
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CapricornSun
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Currently in D&D RPing hell and I love it! *v* <3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: CapricornSun83
Posts: 361 Likes: 2,563
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Post by CapricornSun on Jan 8, 2017 15:26:28 GMT
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Post by halla on Jan 8, 2017 16:22:16 GMT
I can hear arguing Vivienne and Dorian about that Solas headdress - My dear, it sure does fit him. His mysterious life, friendship with demons and love for Fade are all clear with this. - Vivienne blinked few times, she couldn't understand Dorians thinking. - Madame de Fer, with all respect, but our fellow unwashed apostate hobo would be kill on sight with it when they see him cast magic. Or for fashion disaster.or something like that.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 17:00:16 GMT
First... I'm not an artist so please don't judge haha! But I really wanted to draw Solas and here's my 2nd attempt. I would like to learn to draw so sought out some advice from other artists and they helped a huge amount! I still have a long, long, loooooong way to go but I so enjoyed drawing this. It was soothing That's pretty good as far as I'm concerned. Here's my drawing of Solas.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 8, 2017 18:08:09 GMT
midnight tea Just for the sake of accuracy, Weekes' main protagonist Loch is an Urujar, which is a race of dark-skinned humans - not elves. Elves in the Rogues of the Republic trilogy are quite distinct from all the other races because they have green skin and crystals embedded in their faces.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 18:08:40 GMT
Happy Birthday CapricornSun ! Sorry you came in on that, have this for your birthday: Link
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 8, 2017 18:24:00 GMT
Throwing something out to wash out some of the bad taste of the last few pages before I'm off for the night: Spirits! Thoughts on 'Demons' who are in the Fade simply being Spirits but they are what people would consider the 'darker' aspects of emotions/ideas? Perhaps the only true demons are the ones who are pulled through the Veil, don't have enough 'them', or are twisted against their purpose so they become abominations/true demons. I mean, even what we label as love has some dark facets to it. Not everything is solely 'good'/'light', there are 'evil'/'bad' and grey sides too. My philosophy on this (and hence, Fentelban's) is similar... I have imagined her talking to Solas way past Trespasser because she's been busy trying to figure out what can be done to achieve the goal of "restoring the elves" without catastrophically dropping the Veil... Anyway, in this scenario, she does indeed accept that elves were all more or less like Cole once, and Solas' name meaning "pride" actually really does mean "Pride." But she can't see that any entity from the Beyond that identifies as Pride must be evil, since there are good aspects of Pride as well. She can't really see spirits (and ancient elves) as being on a binary slider of "Pride-Wisdom" or "Hope-Despair" she sees them more as circles or spheres that allow for the complexity she has observed in Solas. You know, like you can be so very wise that at some point you slip over into pride, or vice-versa... I'm not explaining it very well. It all makes sense in my head, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 18:25:58 GMT
Hi Blanketfort, I am not interested in "getting involved" and prolonging what I'm sure has been a stressful evening for all of us, but I would simply like to add this. I realize that I am a relative newcomer, and I genuinely do not want any trouble or to join the circle of dead-horse-beating. I write this with full humility. That being said, as an artist, I feel that I cannot in good faith allow my art (which reflects me) to be posted on the Blanketfort any longer after this debacle. I really hate to do this, but I've been disappointed in the way this ordeal has been handled. While some arguments have been repeated over the past several pages and I cannot know this person any better than a fellow voice on the Internet, I stand with Lob on most all points he has defended. I really don't want to make a big deal or anything, just to let people know that my creative content will no longer be posted here. I will also ask not to be included in art posts. This really does sadden me as I am truly grateful to those I've met on the Blanketfort who have been absolute delights. However, I do spend most of my time on my Tumblr, where all of my art is posted. In the event that anyone still wants to see my Dragon Age art, feel free to shoot me a personal message asking for my Tumblr URL. Again, I don't want to add fuel to the fire and I am not "whining," I simply wish to notify people. Thank you to everyone who has offered brilliant speculation and art about our favorite Fade Nerd, and support to myself and other artists. I'll spoiler this just in case : That's unfortunate and I hope you change your mind later on. Art of all forms has been appreciated on this thread from what I have seen (as well as discussion). There wasn't an outcry for only certain pairings or concept styles. This thread does not discriminate if that was your concern, and none of the discussion that took place yesterday should give you that impression either. It is disappointing that based off a small discussion that the Blanketfort has been labeled as an intolerant and undesirable place to share your art. However as an artist you are entitled to post wherever and whenever you please. I respect artists and authors for being able to create something from nothing, I think it is actually a beautiful talent to have. I will be sad to see your art leave the Blanketfort (especially since I was one of the posters that seems to have pushed you to such a decision. I'm generally a lurker so you shouldn't be too concerned to see more from me).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 18:33:27 GMT
My philosophy on this (and hence, Fentelban's) is similar... I have imagined her talking to Solas way past Trespasser because she's been busy trying to figure out what can be done to achieve the goal of "restoring the elves" without catastrophically dropping the Veil... Anyway, in this scenario, she does indeed accept that elves were all more or less like Cole once, and Solas' name meaning "pride" actually really does mean "Pride." But she can't see that any entity from the Beyond that identifies as Pride must be evil, since there are good aspects of Pride as well. She can't really see spirits (and ancient elves) as being on a binary slider of "Pride-Wisdom" or "Hope-Despair" she sees them more as circles or spheres that allow for the complexity she has observed in Solas. You know, like you can be so very wise that at some point you slip over into pride, or vice-versa... I'm not explaining it very well. It all makes sense in my head, though. Nah, I get it . That was a much better way of wording my musing of Spirits being more than just 'Justice', 'Pride', etc. As far as dreamers witnessing demons in the Fade, it could also be that Spirits have more than just one appearance. Kinda like how you have different people and races, Spirits won't always seem like a ghostly figure, they can look 'demonic' in a sense and this is where some of the misconception came from? I mean we have instances in real life where an animal was given an evil connotation because it was new and misunderstood. I am not very eloquent and I'm not sure that made sense at all....
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 8, 2017 18:42:50 GMT
IIRC, the Fade and its inhabitants can be somewhat influenced by the thoughts and feelings of the person who is there, like a person who is expecting demons to come at them in the Fade will encounter antagonistic spirits. (I think Justice in DA:A said this, but it's been a long time, I could be wrong.) Perhaps, but it seems it is only superficial influence - depending on the mood or story needs of the writers? Not to disparage them but it's a bit inconsistent so far. For example, the Fear demon we run into that's powering the demon army of Cory-pants is not influenced by us except the appearance of its minions. Solas couldn't dismiss it, for example, with happy thoughts. Or The demon we run into in DA:O, the Pride demon, has also been existing as a Pride demon without our presence or expectations - it tries to trick us that it's something else and it's been trying to trick other mage candidates. So, the demons can exist independent of any outside influence, after they've been created or come into being and thus be there waiting for you no matter what you expect. At least it seems so. For this, I've thought along the lines of a developing complexity of demons or spirits... Inspired a bit by one of the Cantos from The Qun, believe it or not... Canto 1Existence is a choice. There is no chaos in the world, only complexity. Knowledge of the complex is wisdom. From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self. Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering. Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it. It is in our own power to create the world, or destroy it. So from this and also from Solas' description of what will happen to his friend Wisdom who has died, and from what Cole managed to do, I have kind of speculated whether spirits grow in complexity over time, from a wisp to a spirit/demon to an embodied being like Cole (and maybe the ancient elves). As a wisp grows in complexity ("knowledge of the complex is wisdom"), it becomes increasingly self-aware ("from wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self") and is less easily influenced by human ideas of what it should be. At some point it reaches a critical tipping point and becomes an embodied spirit like Cole (or the ancient elves... "Mastery of the self is mastery of the world.") But losing a sense of its original purpose can cause it to regress ("Loss of the self is the source of suffering"). And this kind of draws on the idea of Wisdom having been twisted into Pride when she was summoned by the mages. It also might help to explain the thing that Solas doesn't want Lavellan to see him become, if he knows he's giving up some part of himself (his respect for the right of all sentient beings to have freedom of thought and choice, for example) in order to accomplish his goal. Anyway, I have little to support this; it's just a speculation fueled by a bunch of in-game lore that is probably not actually related. But this is how I occupy my mind while waiting for DA4 to come out. Speculating... On another note, I started playing Jade Empire for the first time last weekend, and I can TOTALLY see why some fans wonder if it might be on the same planet as Thedas. There seem to be a lot of concepts about spirits and such that are similar to what I've learned from Dragon Age. Of course this may be more of a chicken-and-egg kind of thing... The same BioWare people might have been working on both Jade Empire and Dragon Age Origins and so it shouldn't really be surprising that there may be similar ideas in both games.
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colonelkillabee
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Post by colonelkillabee on Jan 8, 2017 19:20:55 GMT
My philosophy on this (and hence, Fentelban's) is similar... I have imagined her talking to Solas way past Trespasser because she's been busy trying to figure out what can be done to achieve the goal of "restoring the elves" without catastrophically dropping the Veil... Anyway, in this scenario, she does indeed accept that elves were all more or less like Cole once, and Solas' name meaning "pride" actually really does mean "Pride." But she can't see that any entity from the Beyond that identifies as Pride must be evil, since there are good aspects of Pride as well. She can't really see spirits (and ancient elves) as being on a binary slider of "Pride-Wisdom" or "Hope-Despair" she sees them more as circles or spheres that allow for the complexity she has observed in Solas. You know, like you can be so very wise that at some point you slip over into pride, or vice-versa... I'm not explaining it very well. It all makes sense in my head, though. Nah, I get it . That was a much better way of wording my musing of Spirits being more than just 'Justice', 'Pride', etc. As far as dreamers witnessing demons in the Fade, it could also be that Spirits have more than just one appearance. Kinda like how you have different people and races, Spirits won't always seem like a ghostly figure, they can look 'demonic' in a sense and this is where some of the misconception came from? I mean we have instances in real life where an animal was given an evil connotation because it was new and misunderstood. I am not very eloquent and I'm not sure that made sense at all.... Reminds me of how in the Bible, angels have terrifying and alien descriptions, and how demons are just fallen angels. So they don't look horrifying because they're demons, or evil, that's just how they looked, lol. Worth noting also that Christians addressed the belief culturally of other gods that were still represented in sculptures and so on by calling them demons, changing the greek word for spirits with godly qualities, usually good deities to mean almost the opposite. For instance, Ba'al was a Philistine god, and he was later called Beelzebub, which is a demon, and prince of hell in Christian demonology. Which all started from them calling Ba'al Ba'al zebub "Lord of the flies", or basically a god of shit, lol. So in other words, the idea that demons are just misunderstood spirits or deities reformed by other cultures is there and very valid. Who knows, pride demons might start looking like wolves one day in Thedas. They choose to see pride and so on as evil spirits, so that's what they get. You go looking for evil, you'll find evil.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2017 19:40:57 GMT
...That was 'drama' ? Huh, for me this is just some minor bickering soon to be drowned in the ever-flowing current of the thread Either way, I'm off to cure headache and actually get some goddamn sleep... You don't want old day drama, lol, but at least in the good ol days, the drama had something to do with Solas, and wasn't as silly as people misinterpreting descriptions of skin color, or taking concept art out of context. Fallout 4's tinker tom used to be an old white guy with a big grey beard. Now, he's the exact opposite of that, lol. Just as an example, I know Fallout is a Bethesda game. There's not a representation issue in Bioware games, it's basically the SJW capital of gaming, and yet there's still issues like this. Actually, one the previous 'drama' on old Blanketfort was about the Dalish and some specific opinions about them and elves in general, or rather the approach of authors towards them. It happens sometimes. Both with Solas being important to the world of Thedas on multiple levels, thread still being active, people having varieties of opinions and us digging all sort stuff to talk about it's kind of unavoidable for some topics to arise and for some opinions to clash. Personally I don't mind that, cuz I like some discussion to happen if I have time for it and sometimes it can get heated or lenghty, though I know it can be tiresome, especially if arguments start going in circles or people get stubborn. But like I said - it's not like it doesn't happen even among people constantly here, and most of the time we manage to hash it out between ourselves and don't get 'drama-y' too often about it. If it happened more frequently, I think we'd see this place abandoned way sooner, yet the thread keeps going
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 8, 2017 19:42:32 GMT
Nah, I get it . That was a much better way of wording my musing of Spirits being more than just 'Justice', 'Pride', etc. As far as dreamers witnessing demons in the Fade, it could also be that Spirits have more than just one appearance. Kinda like how you have different people and races, Spirits won't always seem like a ghostly figure, they can look 'demonic' in a sense and this is where some of the misconception came from? I mean we have instances in real life where an animal was given an evil connotation because it was new and misunderstood. I am not very eloquent and I'm not sure that made sense at all.... Reminds me of how in the Bible, angels have terrifying and alien descriptions, and how demons are just fallen angels. So they don't look horrifying because they're demons, or evil, that's just how they looked, lol. Worth noting also that Christians addressed the belief culturally of other gods that were still represented in sculptures and so on by calling them demons, changing the greek word for spirits with godly qualities, usually good deities to mean almost the opposite. For instance, Ba'al was a Philistine god, and he was later called Beelzebub, which is a demon, and prince of hell in Christian demonology. Which all started from them calling Ba'al Ba'al zebub "Lord of the flies", or basically a god of shit, lol. So in other words, the idea that demons are just misunderstood spirits or deities reformed by other cultures is there and very valid. Who knows, pride demons might start looking like wolves one day in Thedas. They choose to see pride and so on as evil spirits, so that's what they get. You go looking for evil, you'll find evil. I was about to mention that the Greek word 'daemon' actually means a 'spirit'
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 8, 2017 21:44:59 GMT
The sequence of events seems a bit muddled, which would be understandable if you were learning it second hand but is odd since it is coming direct from the person involved in them. What we still need to know is why Mythal was killed? Was it just that the others objected to her keeping them in order or had she actively started moving against them. I keep returning to Flemeth's words to Merrill "the People are too quick to bow the knee", when admonishing her for bowing to her when she didn't really know who she was. Yet the Dalish are not known for submitting to anyone, it is an essential part of their culture "never again will we submit", so did Flemeth's words refer back to the People of old? Did the plan to free the ancient elves actually come from Mythal and when she was killed, Solas continued with it? Otherwise it would seem the sequence was, Mythal is murdered, Solas rebels against the corrupt rule of the Evanuris and encourages others to do the same, he devises a plan to entrap them and does so by raising the Veil. With regard to why Mythal was killed, I suppose that depends on how the Evanuris are handled. Are we going to get three-dimensional characters who are flawed and have ideologies that conflicted with Fen'Harel and Mythal in one form or another, or are we getting Corypheus style villains with no redeeming features who exist simply to be destroyed or defeated by a brand new protagonist, so they killed her because they're evil villains? Is Fen'Harel's version of events accurate, or will he get another side to the story? As for Asha'bellanar's words to Merrill, I suspect they referred back to the ancient elves, given what you pointed out about the Dalish adhering to their autonomy and self-rule over any form of subjugation. I don't think Asha'bellanar had anything to do with Solas' plans, though; she didn't seem to participate in ending the plight of the Elvhen but rather with making a deal with Maric and persuading Morrigan to partake in the Dark Ritual. The DR may have something to do with Solas' own views on the Old Gods, and what Asha'bellanar seemed to intend with the dragons and the dragon blood.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 21:56:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 22:17:34 GMT
Happy Birthday, Sunny!
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 8, 2017 22:21:06 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Jan 8, 2017 23:35:54 GMT
Perhaps, but it seems it is only superficial influence - depending on the mood or story needs of the writers? Not to disparage them but it's a bit inconsistent so far. For example, the Fear demon we run into that's powering the demon army of Cory-pants is not influenced by us except the appearance of its minions. Solas couldn't dismiss it, for example, with happy thoughts. Or The demon we run into in DA:O, the Pride demon, has also been existing as a Pride demon without our presence or expectations - it tries to trick us that it's something else and it's been trying to trick other mage candidates. So, the demons can exist independent of any outside influence, after they've been created or come into being and thus be there waiting for you no matter what you expect. At least it seems so. Mouse is a curious example. Solas tells us that Pride Demons are corrupted Spirits of Wisdom who have perverted their purpose. Mouse tries to trick us into allowing a possession by playing on our sympathy, flattering our intelligence and vanity for being smart enough to eventually figure him out. That being said, his entire function in the Harrowing does still teach us the value of Wisdom, to not blindly trust anyone or anything we saw in the Fade, which was clearly the lesson that the Circle intended to teach it's Apprentices. So in that regard, Mouse does still end up carrying out his former purpose. Makes you wonder if Mouse was always a Pride Demon or was corrupted by the Harrowing? Wouldn't be that strange to imagine the Harrowing might have began when some bright-spark Enchanter thought they could summon Spirits of Wisdom to teach Circle Mages, only for them to end up unwittingly corrupting them. We can see from banter between Solas and Vivienne that he's really does not approve of the Harrowing, due to how Circle Mages are taught to be afraid of the Fade and it's denizens, forcing both to turn monstrous to cater to their expectations. (Also Happy Birthday Sunny!)
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Jan 9, 2017 1:47:44 GMT
Mouse is a curious example. I've been thinking about Mouse today, too. He never struck me as evil, but rather as helpful. Almost as if he was playing at being a demon for the sake of the Harrowing, and never really meant to possess you. It's been a while, but I think he even imparts some wisdom before he disappears. He doesn't bother to fight your character when they resist, and doesn't possess them when they don't (admonishes them for being stupid if I recall correctly), which to me reinforces the idea that he didn't want to possess the PC at all. I think he can be a good example of demons not being evil by default, so Merrill was probably on to something. Maybe I'm just reading him incorrectly, though.
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