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Post by procutemeister on Jan 14, 2017 10:21:01 GMT
Ooh! I like that close2myheart Sifr If we do get the Inquisitor back as a secondary protagonist, I wonder how they'll incorporate their lack of an arm? I'm thinking crossbow arm. Get Varric to ask Bianca to make one for the quizzy. (You can get one if you become a Red Jenny in Trespasser's epilogue, IIRC.)
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Post by Auirel on Jan 14, 2017 10:50:17 GMT
Ooh! I like that close2myheart Sifr If we do get the Inquisitor back as a secondary protagonist, I wonder how they'll incorporate their lack of an arm? I'm thinking crossbow arm. Get Varric to ask Bianca to make one for the quizzy. (You can get one if you become a Red Jenny in Trespasser's epilogue, IIRC.) It'd be absolutely amazing if, in the event that they do give IQ a prosthetic arm, that they have a different version based on what class you were. Mages could get a glowy spirit arm, rogues could get the crowsbow arm we saw in the Red Jenny slide and warriors could get...I actually don't know. An metal arm laced with lyrium probably. And if we do end up playing as IQ again then they had better give us a customisation slot for your arm. Maybe just cosmetically, or with stat changes and all that. I really want that glowy spirit arm. A blue, glowy spirit arm. That's be so awesome!
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Post by close2myheart on Jan 14, 2017 13:25:43 GMT
I'm a mage and I want a silverite infused lyrium prosthetic arm Or it could be replaced by some sort of tool like crossbow, retractable blade or a shield of some sort. Though I have to admit, I kinda like the idea of my 1 armed mage. I trully think that it's badassery on its own.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 14, 2017 14:51:32 GMT
Ooh! I like that close2myheart Sifr If we do get the Inquisitor back as a secondary protagonist, I wonder how they'll incorporate their lack of an arm? I'm thinking crossbow arm. Get Varric to ask Bianca to make one for the quizzy. (You can get one if you become a Red Jenny in Trespasser's epilogue, IIRC.) It'd be absolutely amazing if, in the event that they do give IQ a prosthetic arm, that they have a different version based on what class you were. Mages could get a glowy spirit arm, rogues could get the crowsbow arm we saw in the Red Jenny slide and warriors could get...I actually don't know. An metal arm laced with lyrium probably. And if we do end up playing as IQ again then they had better give us a customisation slot for your arm. Maybe just cosmetically, or with stat changes and all that. I really want that glowy spirit arm. A blue, glowy spirit arm. That's be so awesome! Rogue player here! If the mage and the warrior both get functional magical arms, then I really hope the rogue would, too - not a crossbow arm. Fingers are important for picking locks and such. Not to mention if your rogue was a dual-daggers rogue like mine, then you'd have to learn how to become a marksman to use a crossbow arm. But mages and warriors with magical arms could carry on, business as usual, with their staff-twirling, two-handed or sword and shield styles.
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Post by Natashina on Jan 14, 2017 15:08:02 GMT
ladyiolanthe Rogue player here too. I hadn't thought of the 2H sword solution for Dagna and it's a good one. Like you however, I'm still stuck about what picklocking-centric rogue and/or a dual wielding rogue would do. Not all rogues pick locks. I played a Cleric/Rogue in D&D 3.5 that had high points in stealth and backstab but couldn't break into a chicken coop.
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Post by procutemeister on Jan 14, 2017 19:27:47 GMT
Same, my Lavellan does dual-daggers. I have no idea how she'd get back to fighting with that. She's also not a lockpicker... well, in my headcanon anyway. She picks them in game. Also, a magical prosthetic arm sounds amazing.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 14, 2017 19:46:08 GMT
I was watching the scene again where Solas reveals the meaning of the vallaslin and something struck me. He says they are slave markings and that nobles would mark their slaves to honour their gods. Does that mean there were ancient elves who had no markings and this is how you identify who are the nobles and who are the slaves? Up to now I just thought it was Solas and his followers who removed their vallaslin who had bare faces but this would suggest otherwise. In which case, are the priesthood an exception, marking their faces because they serve their god, like Abelas?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 21:32:36 GMT
Original they were going to give Bull a canon arm. Give me a canon arm.
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Post by Rynnju on Jan 14, 2017 22:53:00 GMT
@ sifr : That idea.. I like. A lot of potential angst there XD. Because what could be worse than your bestest friend/lover taking the fall on your behalf and fixing your mistake? (This calls for fanfiction! XD) then force him to work together with the new protag to clean up what ever the problem they're facing currently. Which is why I'm eternally hopefull that we'd get to have a dual protag XD (85% - 90% new protag and 15% - 10% [ex]Quisitor) Imagine the scene when the new protag was caught in a pinch and comes face to face with Solas. Then suddenly IQ shows up : "Solas." Solas : "Vhenan / Lethalan / Hmph... You." (Depending to what kind of relationship he has with the IQ) ... If that happens, I'm going to scream the fan girl scream XD and wouldnt care if I wake up the whole house at midnight XD Even if not necessarily dual protagonist, I hope it's possible to create a mechanic where you can choose another character's dialogue in a scene even if you're not playing them. Then your Inquisitor could be there for the Solas confrontation only and you could still make your own choice with them. I have no idea how difficult something like that would be, though.
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Post by lobselvith8 on Jan 15, 2017 0:07:25 GMT
I was watching the scene again where Solas reveals the meaning of the vallaslin and something struck me. He says they are slave markings and that nobles would mark their slaves to honour their gods. Does that mean there were ancient elves who had no markings and this is how you identify who are the nobles and who are the slaves? Up to now I just thought it was Solas and his followers who removed their vallaslin who had bare faces but this would suggest otherwise. In which case, are the priesthood an exception, marking their faces because they serve their god, like Abelas? Yeah, Abelas and the Sentinels do call that into question since, technically speaking, they shouldn't have vallaslin unless they're slaves. If this was Bethesda or Obsidian I'd assume that it's a hint that there's more context here that Solas is leaving out because he's only giving us his side of the story (which, in my humble opinion, would make for a more interesting narrative than the Evanuris being one-dimensional villains like Corypheus was). I find the dynamic of ideologically opposing groups who aren't evil simply because you oppose them more interesting than the black and white scenarios. Bethesa's approach in Fallout 4 with the Eastern chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel and their schism with the clandestine Railroad over unrestricted artificial intelligence, or Obsidian's New Vegas and the myriad of factions vying for power over the Mojave. Side with the Brotherhood, and the Railroad doesn't become evil simply to make you feel better about having to deal with them, and the same is true if you align with the Railroad to oppose the Brotherhood. That's also true in New Vegas, where Mr. House and the NCR aren't evil, even though they are quite flawed. I wish Dragon Age employed this approach.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 15, 2017 0:19:29 GMT
ladyiolanthe Rogue player here too. I hadn't thought of the 2H sword solution for Dagna and it's a good one. Like you however, I'm still stuck about what picklocking-centric rogue and/or a dual wielding rogue would do. Not all rogues pick locks. I played a Cleric/Rogue in D&D 3.5 that had high points in stealth and backstab but couldn't break into a chicken coop. True, true. I was referring specifically to DAI, though, not tabletop RPGs. I wonder how many people played rogues and didn't pick locks to get into otherwise inaccessible areas? Same, my Lavellan does dual-daggers. I have no idea how she'd get back to fighting with that. She's also not a lockpicker... well, in my headcanon anyway. She picks them in game. Also, a magical prosthetic arm sounds amazing.My Lavellan unabashedly picked locks to get into doors. In front of whoever happened to be travelling with her at the time. Hey, it's less property damage than bashing in the doors like a warrior or stonefisting doors like a mage. She was respectful of property. For the Inquisition! A magical arm would be good for things other than picking locks, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:50:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 1:02:23 GMT
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Post by procutemeister on Jan 15, 2017 1:06:26 GMT
OMG. I just woke up to this. My day is officially made.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 1:17:15 GMT
I was watching the scene again where Solas reveals the meaning of the vallaslin and something struck me. He says they are slave markings and that nobles would mark their slaves to honour their gods. Does that mean there were ancient elves who had no markings and this is how you identify who are the nobles and who are the slaves? Up to now I just thought it was Solas and his followers who removed their vallaslin who had bare faces but this would suggest otherwise. In which case, are the priesthood an exception, marking their faces because they serve their god, like Abelas? I've been under the assumption that Tevinter closely resembles ancient Elvhenan in their social class system. Based off some of the implications Solas' revelations generate and the repeated harping of Tevinter mimicking and downright claiming Elven things as their own, I tend to lean on this being true (at least until we are given better answers in the coming games). Some quick things the Imperium set in place: Codex, Tevinter Social Classes: Social Classes of Tevinter Soporati- (Tevene) Tevinter social class. Lit. 'sleepers'. Common citizens of the Tevinter Imperium who are non-mages. Allowed to own property and serve in Tevinter's military but they have no real power in the nation's governance and are unable to attain a higher rank in the Imperial Chantry than mother or father. Are most often found to be merchants. Laetan- (Tevene) Tevinter social class. Second step above Soporati after praeteri (there is no expansion of praeteri. Based off the little information given, I assume they are Mages -hence considered better than Soporati's, nonmages, but are perhaps indentured or so magically curbed that to consider them mages is laughable?). They are mages born into families that had up to that point shown no magical ability or who have been mages for generations but have no link to the higher Altus or Dreamer class. Servus Publicus- (Tevene) Class of slaves within Tevinter. Differ from the Liberati in that they do the all the tasks proper citizens will not and are indentured.
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Post by procutemeister on Jan 15, 2017 1:43:21 GMT
Perhaps the praeteri are leaders in the military? And the Soporati make up the rank and file. This is just going off of the fact that in ancient Roman society, the praetor serve as such, or are otherwise a magistrate (whose duties varied throughout history).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 1:53:16 GMT
Perhaps the praeteri are leaders in the military? And the Soporati make up the rank and file. This is just going off of the fact that in ancient Roman society, the praetor serve as such, or are otherwise a magistrate (whose duties varied throughout history). That is entirely possible. Tevinter does have quite a few Roman leanings. I wish they would have given a little something as to what praeteri are specifically. The most that is stated is ''The well-bred altus sneer at the laetans, who in turn sneer at the praeteri." Yet praeteri is a subset of laetan, so there must be an element of magical capability in them. A question for DA4 i guess
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Post by CapricornSun on Jan 15, 2017 4:32:37 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 15, 2017 12:02:25 GMT
Looking at my trusting Latin dictionary (I swear I have read it more in connection with Tevinter than I ever did at school) the word praeter means "beyond, excepting, more than, in addition to", and praetarii means "to pass or overtake" but also "leave out, neglect or forget". So either the praetari in Tevinter are first stage Laetans, having newly escaped the Soporati class through being born with magical ability from non-magical parents, or alternatively they are subsequent generations of Laetans who have not inherited magical ability, which can happen among the Altus so even more likely to happen among the Laetans. So they have escaped being mere Soporati by virtue of their birth but are considered inferior to their magically gifted relatives (a bit like squibs in the Harry Potter world).
Still the Tevinter social classes do not really explain what was going in the elven civilisation before the raising of the Veil. At that time everyone had some degree of magical ability, which is why it would seem they marked those who were considered inferior to indicate they were commoners (whether slaves or servants by designation) rather than the nobility. I was struck by the earliest account of Arlathan that we were given in DAO where it in fact says that Arlathan was a place of knowledge and debate where the BEST of elves would go to interact. Assuming that was deliberate on the part of the writers, it would suggest that not only was Arlathan definitely the seat of government (hence the knowledge and debate) but also only certain individuals were able to go there. It may be that it was forbidden to the slave class and part of the reason that they were marked was so they could be readily identified if they were in a place they were considered not worthy of, particularly if not accompanied by the noble they belonged to.
If the nobility were unmarked, it would give an additional reason for Solas to remove the markings of slaves, in addition to the fact that it signified that now they were free. It would mean his followers were able to move around freely in places where they would otherwise be instantly recognised as former slaves.
Actually there is an older culture than Tevinter that may reflect this idea of marking the lowest class and that is the dwarven civilisation. The castless are branded on their faces to mark them as in the bottom rung of society, from which they are never permitted to rise. Considering the link we now know there is between the current dwarven civilisation and the ancient elves, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that this practice of the dwarves originated with copying the ideas of the elves.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 15, 2017 15:27:12 GMT
Looking at my trusting Latin dictionary (I swear I have read it more in connection with Tevinter than I ever did at school) the word praeter means "beyond, excepting, more than, in addition to", and praetarii means "to pass or overtake" but also "leave out, neglect or forget". So either the praetari in Tevinter are first stage Laetans, having newly escaped the Soporati class through being born with magical ability from non-magical parents, or alternatively they are subsequent generations of Laetans who have not inherited magical ability, which can happen among the Altus so even more likely to happen among the Laetans. So they have escaped being mere Soporati by virtue of their birth but are considered inferior to their magically gifted relatives (a bit like squibs in the Harry Potter world). Still the Tevinter social classes do not really explain what was going in the elven civilisation before the raising of the Veil. At that time everyone had some degree of magical ability, which is why it would seem they marked those who were considered inferior to indicate they were commoners (whether slaves or servants by designation) rather than the nobility. I was struck by the earliest account of Arlathan that we were given in DAO where it in fact says that Arlathan was a place of knowledge and debate where the BEST of elves would go to interact. Assuming that was deliberate on the part of the writers, it would suggest that not only was Arlathan definitely the seat of government (hence the knowledge and debate) but also only certain individuals were able to go there. It may be that it was forbidden to the slave class and part of the reason that they were marked was so they could be readily identified if they were in a place they were considered not worthy of, particularly if not accompanied by the noble they belonged to. If the nobility were unmarked, it would give an additional reason for Solas to remove the markings of slaves, in addition to the fact that it signified that now they were free. It would mean his followers were able to move around freely in places where they would otherwise be instantly recognised as former slaves. Actually there is an older culture than Tevinter that may reflect this idea of marking the lowest class and that is the dwarven civilisation. The castless are branded on their faces to mark them as in the bottom rung of society, from which they are never permitted to rise. Considering the link we now know there is between the current dwarven civilisation and the ancient elves, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that this practice of the dwarves originated with copying the ideas of the elves. Interesting ideas! We shall see, hopefully, eventually. I'm more inclined to think of Arlathan as a university than a seat of government, especially considering the book/memory in the Vir Dirthara that spoke of a spirit and some elves lecturing an audience of more elves on magical theory. The two ancient elves we know about, Solas and Abelas, both seem to place a high value on knowledge/wisdom. So does the sort-of ancient elf, Flemeth. While they're a small sample size, it might not be too much to assume that Elvhenan had a knowledge economy. (Especially when you consider that ancient elves, being all mages, could probably wave their hands to get whatever they needed... The most valuable commodity would be knowing exactly how to wave your hands to get what you need.)
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Post by NightSymphony on Jan 15, 2017 18:42:20 GMT
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Post by Solas on Jan 15, 2017 18:52:37 GMT
hey nightsymphony, hope you're well
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 19:05:25 GMT
Looking at my trusting Latin dictionary (I swear I have read it more in connection with Tevinter than I ever did at school) the word praeter means "beyond, excepting, more than, in addition to", and praetarii means "to pass or overtake" but also "leave out, neglect or forget". So either the praetari in Tevinter are first stage Laetans, having newly escaped the Soporati class through being born with magical ability from non-magical parents, or alternatively they are subsequent generations of Laetans who have not inherited magical ability, which can happen among the Altus so even more likely to happen among the Laetans. So they have escaped being mere Soporati by virtue of their birth but are considered inferior to their magically gifted relatives (a bit like squibs in the Harry Potter world). Still the Tevinter social classes do not really explain what was going in the elven civilisation before the raising of the Veil. At that time everyone had some degree of magical ability, which is why it would seem they marked those who were considered inferior to indicate they were commoners (whether slaves or servants by designation) rather than the nobility. I was struck by the earliest account of Arlathan that we were given in DAO where it in fact says that Arlathan was a place of knowledge and debate where the BEST of elves would go to interact. Assuming that was deliberate on the part of the writers, it would suggest that not only was Arlathan definitely the seat of government (hence the knowledge and debate) but also only certain individuals were able to go there. It may be that it was forbidden to the slave class and part of the reason that they were marked was so they could be readily identified if they were in a place they were considered not worthy of, particularly if not accompanied by the noble they belonged to. If the nobility were unmarked, it would give an additional reason for Solas to remove the markings of slaves, in addition to the fact that it signified that now they were free. It would mean his followers were able to move around freely in places where they would otherwise be instantly recognised as former slaves. Actually there is an older culture than Tevinter that may reflect this idea of marking the lowest class and that is the dwarven civilisation. The castless are branded on their faces to mark them as in the bottom rung of society, from which they are never permitted to rise. Considering the link we now know there is between the current dwarven civilisation and the ancient elves, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that this practice of the dwarves originated with copying the ideas of the elves. lol whoops, forgot to mention the magic part! (I got excited with the Tevinter classes) Well if we use Tevinter hierarchy as a baseboard but simply add 'magic' to every class, I think it would still work quite well for a general idea of Elvhenan. Just because magic is everywhere and everyone does have the capabilities to harness magic, doesn't mean that those capabilities will be equal. Look at Solas, I don't think he lied when he said he was 'gifted with magic'. It is entirely possible that there would be a sect of Elves who even though they have the know-how, are basically so inept magically that they could be considered useless mages. If the most powerful are elevated to positions of nobility then there would certainly be vacuums that the 'lesser' Elves would need to fill. Also, its important to note that slavery is also used as a punishment in Tevinter. So depending on the crime, you can lose your status and become indentured. A nice little way to cripple an opposing house wouldn't you say?
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N2
Still in Solavellan Hell.
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Post by NightSymphony on Jan 15, 2017 19:19:37 GMT
hey nightsymphony, hope you're well Thank you!! I'm doing alright. We had a lot of rain and snow here. The basement flooded, so I've been dealing with that. Fun times. Other than that, I'm just peachy..lol. I hope you're peachy too!
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Post by phoray on Jan 15, 2017 20:18:46 GMT
I had a thought.
A dev was talking about why they cut the active abilities down to 8. How they reached that decision is they stalked thousands of players through Origin, or something like it, and literally saw people only using such and such 8 abilities. So they okayed the reduction of abilities for future games.
Then I was wondering why Cullen, Sera, and Blackwall were chosen to get extra romaceable scenes in Trespasser over the others. I thought maybe it might be connected to their stalking.
Which led me to my next wondering.
What if the Redeem/Kill option is also something they stalk? And therefore, they will modify the story of what they do with Solas based on the winning vote?
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