The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

^ Dorian for Archon! We just have to disabuse him of his support of slavery.

Well... I don't really think it's that cheap, because I think they've been grooming Sten to be the Arishok from the start.

They may not have known whether they'd be able to use him again (at that point in time they didn't even know whether they'd get to tell more of DA story), but the clues are there: we can't kill him (and we never see him die in Lothering; the Darkspawn Chronicles suggest that he eventually found his sword on his own). We can never change his mind about the Qun. He always returns to his fellow Qunari after events in Ferelden.
So they've intentionally minimized the number of quantum states he has - same way they did with Dorian, who always lives and always goes back to Tevinter.

In fact, I'm actually more irked by his personal quest - even with all the unbelievable things any protagonist in any DA game can do, finding his sword in all of the surrounding chaos borders on miraculous. So when Sten comments on the impossibility of finding a single blade in a country at war, I was like "oh, come on game! Acknowledging it doesn't make it better!".
It's a minor snag, but one that I have to chuckle at and kinda wonder whether it's a matter of less inspired writing, or does the game suggests (through Sten's words) that DA protagonists are indeed aided by 'higher powers' at times 

Indeed, while Dorian genuinely cares and expresses the need for Tevinter to change inside out, we don't hear him focusing on slavery as the first thing to take care of. That's not to say that he's *for* slavery, but he admitted that he wasn't really thinking about it before he traveled South, nor thinks that the fate of impoverished people left on their own is any better than indenturing oneself. The Lucerni also seems to be a party that consists mostly of upper-class members, which means that he may end up entrenched in his noble bubble - so even if he is the one to abolish slavery, he'd definitely need someone who could serve as a connection between him and slaves: some sort of prominent figure among them, probably.

Dunno if that's Calpernia - especially that Dorian would naturally be suspicious of her, given her past as Venatori leader. Hence some other prominent NPCs that are tied with some rebel factions are possible.

Or... you know - maybe it will be our PC?

I know that there's enough reason to suspect that the next PC will be an agent of Inquision, but one doesn't rule out the other. The PC may work with Inquisition AND either start or end up as a member or the resistance against current status quo in Tevinter - whether they're slaves, soporati or altus.

As for whether the anti-slavery option could be allied with Solas... dunno.

Considering that Inquisitor is convinced that Solas doesn't know people of Tevinter much, we might assume that they know enough to think that Solas ain't really involved with matters of Imperium. That doesn't mean that this can't change over years, or that Inquisitor is right, but I personally don't think Solas will be directly involved with larger matters in Tevinter, considering that he has his own plans to occupy him.

What I wouldn't be surprised by, however, is that it's possible that the PC may be in contact with Fen'Harel, for whatever reason - only that neither a PC (or us) would know that it's Solas That would be like him It'd also help and cultivate some sort of personal connection between PC and what we already know is a complicated character, without having to just rely on, say, experiences of Inquisitor or characters from DAI.

I also recall theorizing that PERHAPS the game will allow us to be either recruited by Inquisition or Solas's forces and perhaps we'd be able to change factions mid-game - especially with the devs stubbornly hinting that perhaps there'd be a possibility to betray an organization we're working for.

It's really hard to say what they're going to do: we do have clues to suggest that both Tevinter, Qunari and ancient elf/elf things will likely be important, but the question remains how they're going to connect all those things.

And it's not like they can't. I recall when the survey for Trespasser was leaked, and how people couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that we could get all those things from DLC's description in actual DLC (Qunari! Assassins! Invasion! Dread Wolf!)... but, well, we did. All tied in a way I don't really think anyone expected, because who would have thought that Qunari will be pouring out of ancient mirrors and trying to blow up Exalted Council?   

So it's really hard to tell what awaits us. And while I don't think we'd have Qunari pouring out of mirrors again, I wouldn't be surprised if the Qunari (and Venatori? They did survive DAI as a faction after all) were on a hunt for the same artifacts, or some ancient powers, that could help them deal with threats of magic (both in overall sense and in a sense of successfully invading Tevinter). They've amply proven in Trespasser that they're actively looking for solutions to curb magic and even strengthen the Veil. The loss of Viddasala shouldn't be a problem, because Iron Bull made it a point to inform us after Halamshiral that they have people trained and ready to replace any branch or leader and continue uninterrupted.

I think I've said it somewhere recently that at this point I mostly imagine DA4 as a wild chase across eluvians to multiple far-flung locations on the backdrop of Qunari invasion and civil unrest in Tevinter, with multiple factions involved, likely fighting among themselves to find or gain access to some sort of power that they think will help them achieve their goals. Que fragile alliances, betrayals and reveals

I don't really think Solas will be instigating much between Teviter and the Qun - plainly because he doesn't have to. It's quite clear at the end of Trespasser that Qunari plan starting their invasion by attacking Tevinter. The conflict seems pretty much inevitable.

However, while Solas is not really a fan of Tevinter, I don't think he'd help the Qun conquer them all - same way he didn't let Qunari invade the South. In fact, no matter of his relationship with Inquisitor, he went out of his way to prevent the sneaky prelude to invasion, plainly because a.) he wanted to prevent bloodshed b.) dislikes the Qun and c.) because he had means to do so.

I don't think he has means to do much about the full-blown invasion, but I also don't think he wishes the Qun upon Vints - most of Imperium citizens, after all, are just as innocent as Southerners. This may also be a reason why he isn't planning to start a slave uprising in Tevinter - he may plant the seeds or help certain individuals with it, but IMO Solas just isn't preoccupied with organizing any sort of uprising, because... well... what would be the point?

He wants to give people a few years of relative peace before the inevitable end - and a massive uprising in Tevinter is sort of the opposite of that. So why should he do that, or why would he waste his energy and resources for something that ultimately has no point, since it's going to be gone soon?

I just cannot imagine him not getting in the middle of every political mess around him even less so when the political mess in question is possible freedom for the slaves... It's true, he does say that he wants to give people some relative peace, but I can picture him very clearly too saying something like "I'd rather help them die free if they're ready to fight for it" It's true though that he probably won't need to do anything that to instigate war between Tevinter and Qunari :lol But I still could see him not just using it, but "directing" it in a way that suits his purposes and taking advantage of the chaos... Maybe this part is wishfull thinking anyway, because I love his political-schemer side and I want to see it in action but I do expect him to be involved inother story lines, because it also helps to give some thematic consistency to the game... Of course, there's a thousand ways to do that, but I can see them doing it like this too... And, for me, it fits the character...  

Also, I agree that it would be great if he had some sort of relationship with the new PC, I'd particularly like to see him try to gains us for his cause, I really want to see a little at least f his side of the story...

Oh, well, the speculation pre-da4 is going to be fun I hope there are books or something soon to add a little to it 

According to WoT2 the frightening thing about having Sten as Arishok is that he is a much better strategist than the previous one. Even before he went to Ferelden he was promoting the idea of using spies to find out more about the enemy before going to war with them again and it would seem that they followed his advice; hence the network of agents across the south, Iron Bull, Tallis, etc. They are also found throughout Tevinter, often having sold themselves into slavery to put themselves in the right position to act when they need to. But being upset with Sten for attacking? No way. He said as much after defeating the arch demon and said he hoped he would not have to face his former comrade in battle, which given the Warden has been retired from active service by the writers means Sten will be happy.

Calpernia's ambition was to make everyone a true citizen of the Imperium, regardless of their rank in society. This may or may not mean abolishing slavery. At present even after they are freed, Liberati are not true citizens and so are denied certain roles in society and likely also rights under the law. If you are a citizen, you have the protection of the law and so if a slave was a citizen, then a crime against them would be punished the same as against any other citizen. What she also wanted was for every person to reach their true potential and not be held back by the rank into which they were born. So a slave could rise to ultimately become Archon, which would not be possible under the current system. Dorian approved if you freed Calpernia, so there was potential for her becoming an ally of his in the future.

"Everyone has slaves, darling", is what Maevaris says in the comic series, so it doesn't seem as though she will be in a hurry to change the status quo, particularly as unlike Dorian she has never seen any other society. So Dorian is still my best hope for ultimately abolishing slavery, having had time to consider the objections raised by their friend in the south, although when Solas urged this course of action, he did seem to feel it was beyond him.

In an ideal world I would like to abolish the slave trade, establish a new elven homeland and free Seheron from being a constant battleground between the two super powers of Tevinter and the Qun (I always think of Vietnam when I think of Seheron). However, I will settle for any one of these three ideals and feel that I have achieved something next game.

As for the Dalish, I have severe misgivings about what the writers plan to do with them. Look at the attitudes and speeches PW put into the mouth of the Keeper and War Leader of the clan in Masked Empire (in contradiction of the lore in DAO) in order to remove sympathy for them and make the lead characters appear less culpable in abandoning them to be torn apart by a demon. So the fact they kept saying that there was no typical Dalish clan in DAI, the clans were growing apart and most characters were allowed to be either highly critical of them or accuse them of negative actions, makes me wonder if they are being set up to be sacrificed to the plot in the next game. There is also that line of Maryden's in "Mercy for the Elves", when she says "Dalish father roams, will the Dalish son survive the fight?" That does not bode well.

On the subject of Solas' connection with Tevinter slaves, it's possible that he may try to recruit a lot of them. That would definitely put a monkey wrench in a lot of things; both stopping Solas and trying to stand up for Tevinter's slaves and earn them a better place in society.

What I'm most curious about is what kind of change we're going to be able to make regarding the Qunari. The dangerous strictness of that religion just begs for a story development where you alter it in some way. But out of every race in Thedas, the Qunari seem like the ones we'll be able to influence the least no matter what we do.

She'd probably rock it, too! (With the same caveat as Dorian.) And having a female Archon would be a statement in Tevinter.  

While we can all agree that Clan Virnehn was far too one dimensional to be interesting, how exactly did Inquisition take a repeatedly negative approach? I thought it was rather neutral, some good, some bad. Ignoring that most of your companions and advisers do not have negative opinions towards the Dalish or elves in general (Cass, Dorian, Cullen, Josephine, Leliana, Varric, Blackwall, Solas if high approval, Cole, Iron Bull) there were many positive interpretations of the Dalish in Inquisition, alongside the bad. Literally everything Clan Lavellan did was out of empathy and concern for both their clan and the people of Wycome, and if they aren't wiped out they are rewarded for their actions by having a seat on the Wycome council. The Dalish clan in the Exalted Plains, while showing some unwarranted wariness and hostility at the beginning, quickly becomes warm and friendly towards them if you help the out. Given their in the the middle of a warzone though, their hostility is probably not out of hatred, but fear of being tangled up in the Orlesian civil war. When you bring back the information of Red Crossing, their Keeper apologises on behalf of the Dalish for their part in the misunderstanding, whereas the Chantry takes no responsibility and uses the information to justify abuse against elves.

Then there is Clan Ghilain, who continued to claim that Ameridan came from their clan, who if supported either work with the Inquisition or simply ask for reparations in the form of supplies for winter.
Honestly, I can't see how Bioware is showing a dislike for the Dalish by having some characters in it express negative opinions on the Dalish, while their actions in Inquisition are more positive then negative. And there are negatives, the three mages rule with Minaeve, the Dalish mage who succumbed to blood magic. I don't see the Dalish are any worse than most groups in Thedas.

Please don't ignore the context around this conversation. That isn't what's happening at all. She was fearing for her life because of the Mage-Templar war, and while she wanted to help, she was afraid that if she were in trouble then the humans wouldn't come to her aid. Lavellan assures her that that isn't the case, having already been there and helped the people at the Crossroads. You are not blaming her for racist comments made against her. You are saying that you know that by helping them at the Crossroads, they will be grateful, especially considering that they asked for a healer. Her help is wanted and needed there. 

By giving us rectonned lore (the 'three mage' recton) that painted the Dalish in a villainous light for no reason. By repeated cutting us off when we had to deal with negative comments about the Dalish, prohibiting us from saying positive things (such as when speaking with Minaeve, Vivienne, and Giselle). Having certain conversations frame the Dalish negatively without giving any context to them (like Harding's comment about the Dalish, which ignores that their religion is outlawed, humans attack them, and even templars pursue them). To say the portrayal is neutral is intellectually dishonest. Even scenes like Cassandra asking you to add her god to yours are oddly framed as if she's in the right, even though her question is akin to a Christian asking someone who is Jewish to add Jesus to their religion.

Even JoH vilifies the elves of the Dales for not trusting Drakon while ignoring how he massacred thousands of innocent people who followed another faith (the Daughters of Song).


Hinterlands Healer: "I doubt those refugees would risk their lives for a 'knife-ear.' Why should I risk mine for them?"

"This is how you change things."

Because racism goes away as long as you're nice to racists.  And inferring the responsibility is on her shoulders, as I previously said.

I sort of knew going in that my response would be like kicking a bee's nest.

Is is intellectually dishonest to ignore anything that doesn't suit your argument?

I did mention the bad portrayals, the three mage rule specifically. I didn't elaborate too much as you discussed them at length, and have given plenty of evidence for them.
Pretty much everything of what you said above is true, although I think the Christian/Jewish analogy isn't all that accurate for the Dalish. The dialogues preventing you from saying anything positive about the Dalish are especially bad. But I do see the Dalish having a fairly neutral portrayal, because of the positives that I listed before. Portayals you seem to have ignored. There really is no way that you can't view clan Lavellan as a positive portrayal, for example. 
Some of the comments made(like those made by Harding and Cassandra) I see as sort of minor and can be easily forgiven as a bit of ignorance on their part. We as players know a lot about the Dalish, but in-universe they are mysterious and unknown to most people. Not to mention each clan has is own differences. How are they supposed to know how an unknown culture works, or what exactly they believe? How are they to know which rumours are true or not? Josephine makes a good effort to understand the Dalish and all her dialogues about the Dalish shows that she views them with sympathy. Here you can say positive things about the Dalish as well. I can forgive a bit of ignorance.


This is the basis of your entire argument regarding this, yet it is so vague that you could twist it to mean anything you want. Besides, you're putting words into your character's mouth. This is what you actually say to the healer when you pick that option: "People are afraid right now. I haven't been called "knife ear" as often as I had expected. Mostly, all the humans say is "Thank you." I expect you'll find the same...and change some minds in the process."


You haven't addressed anything I said, just reiterated your argument while ignoring mine. I argued that it wasn't about being nice to racists, it was about doing what was right because its right. More than that, its about showing her that she had nothing to fear by going. Clearly, most of the people in the Crossroads don't care as long as you help. That was what Lavellan was saying.

Okay, here's another speculapost, because it's been something that I recalled thinking about after I finished first playthroughs, long before Trespasser and it came back to me while idly musing and scrolling through the thread.

There are quite a lot of people - either here or outside of the forum - that entertain the idea that Solas has bound himself to (Fle)Mythal, based on their shared history and post-epilogue scene. I'm not convinced by that, but that's beside the point ATM.

We also have enough hints to guess that Solas has sacrificed a part of himself in order to either create the Veil or trap Evanuris (Cole in Trespasser: "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap.")

But there's another possibility I don't really see being pondered much - what if Solas bound himself to something else?

After all, he's created te Veil/trapped Evanuris after Mythal's death. There wasn't much left of her to bind himself to. Besides - whatever it is, it could be something way beyond Evanuris or Forgotten Ones or whatever else. Hence he may see himself as doomed, plainly because when he's done with his mission, there will be something that will demand from him to pay the price (I mean, aside from the metaphorical one)???

Not really - it's one of reasons I've decided to ask; whether there's possibility he's bound himself to something else and if he did - what is it? Perhaps some folks have thoughts about this as well.

At this point I don't really have much of an idea what it could be, plainly because we obviously don't yet know all players on the board that is Thedas. Other Evanuris seems unlikely though.... unless he's sacrificed a part of himself that was binding him to something else?

I also have hard time believing he'd tie himself in any way to the Blight.... but the truth is we don't even know what the Blight IS :/ ... or whether it's tied to something else. We do know that it might have potential ties to Mythal tho, that seem different than ties to other Evanuris (like Andruil).