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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 20:49:24 GMT
I kinda have the feeling that the Inquisitor is a bit too high-profile to appear in Tevinter, since the whole reason they wanted to go there was to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about.
This is why I think having Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game would be a great idea. She could easily step into the role of the Inquisitor's representative in Tevinter, Dwarves alone can navigate the Imperium unimpeded, Dreamers can't enter her dreams (because she doesn't experience them) and she gets along with Dorian. She could even be the one to introduce us to him and bring us into the loop perhaps?
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Post by tacsear on Aug 2, 2017 20:57:24 GMT
I kinda have the feeling that the Inquisitor is a bit too high-profile to appear in Tevinter, since the whole reason they wanted to go there was to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about. This is why I think having Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game would be a great idea. She could easily step into the role of the Inquisitor's representative in Tevinter, Dwarves alone can navigate the Imperium unimpeded, Dreamers can't enter her dreams (because she doesn't experience them) and she gets along with Dorian. She could even be the one to introduce us to him and bring us into the loop perhaps? You had me at "Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game"
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 2, 2017 21:12:54 GMT
I kinda have the feeling that the Inquisitor is a bit too high-profile to appear in Tevinter, since the whole reason they wanted to go there was to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about. a.) Thedas is not the equivalent of our XXi-st century where everybody knows how a known person looks like b.) there's a reason why many epilogue cards ostentatiously speak of Inquistor being "supposedly retired" c.) the won't be traveling the way they did to Winter Palace. The whole meeting in post-epilogue scene was in secret. Inquisition proper has gone underground. So the idea is that they're certainly going to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about. Oh I certainly think Harding will come back with extended role - I don't think however that she's going to be getting orders from Inquisitor from the South. Likely the whole core of Inquisition either moves to Tevinter or is in constant move.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 21:19:35 GMT
If Scout Harding returns as an agent, do you think she'd get a codename?
Something like "Tailor" or "Weaver" would be very appropriate, due to her first name and her mother being a seamstress. And it fits the pattern of Leliana naming agents after various occupations, such as Miller, Farrier, Charter etc.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 21:36:17 GMT
a.) Thedas is not the equivalent of our XXi-st century where everybody knows how a known person looks like But you'd imagine that word would have spread that the Inquisitor lost the Anchor, along with most of their left arm that was amputated below the elbow. Obviously amputees from various races are going to exist in Thedas, but a distinctive injury like that is going to make it harder for the Inquisitor to go undercover. (Bull lost his eye when he was already undercover as a Tal-Vashoth merc. He probably would have been recalled back home if he'd ever been publicly outed, since a Qunari with an eyepatch would be too recognisable to make for an effective spy)
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 2, 2017 21:53:40 GMT
Like I say, I only know what I've seen on You Tube but if the Inquisitor goes so far as to punch Dorian he does leave Skyhold before Corypheus is defeated, so there would appear to be limits even to Dorian's willingness to work with them.
In Trespasser it could be argued that since the Inquisitor is going after Qunari Dorian may actually see it as his patriotic duty to get involved, seeing as Tevinter have never not been officially at war with the Qun, even if direct hostilities had been restricted to Seheron in the last 30 years or so. From that point of view it was rather unfortunate that dealing with the Qunari problem in the south, sent it back up north again.
So having a go-between like Harding would actually make sense in that scenario. After all, the epilogues focus on the fact that Dorian is trying to fight corruption in Tevinter rather than the pursuit of Solas. The contact with the Inquisitor through the amulet (whether as friend or lover) is said to give him the mental strength to continue his crusade against the corruption of his homeland. Now indirectly that could assist in the fight against Solas but the amulet was specifically given to a friend/lover to maintain their relationship at a distance. It would also lose all its meaning that it was given in Trespasser if they then said that Dorian automatically bestowed it on any Inquisitor regardless of how he viewed them. There are other ways of maintaining contact with the Inquisitor as already indicated in DAI.
One of the odd things about the epilogues to Trespasser is that they are written as though the threat from Solas barely exists. Even the Solas screen seems to suggest that not everyone even believes the Inquisitor about the imminent threat. I must admit that I would have thought tracking down and neutralising Solas would have taken precedence over any other activity and yet the epilogues have everyone carrying on their own sweet way. It is only that final scene that challenges that idea, when the respective lover is seen in the room with the select group planning what to do next, but the rest of the inner circle would appear to have gone their separate ways as outlined in the epilogue.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 2, 2017 21:57:28 GMT
a.) Thedas is not the equivalent of our XXi-st century where everybody knows how a known person looks like But you'd imagine that word would have spread that the Inquisitor lost the Anchor, along with most of their left arm that was amputated below the elbow. Obviously amputees from various races are going to exist in Thedas, but a distinctive injury like that is going to make it harder for the Inquisitor to go undercover. (Bull lost his eye when he was already undercover as a Tal-Vashoth merc. He probably would have been recalled back home if he'd ever been publicly outed, since a Qunari with an eyepatch would be too recognisable to make for an effective spy) Like you said, with a continent embroiled in war and conflict it's not hard to find amputees and missing hand is not that hard to cover, especially if we assume that there'd be prosthetics involved. Besides - I think most people would reasonably expect for Inquisitor to travel everywhere with a pomp and endless entourage, and not some travelers somewhere on the road. Sera's reaction to Inquisitor at the start probably reflects the expectations most people have of Thedas' most illustrious hero - she was fairly disappointed with what she saw, and that was when Inquisitor still had a glowy hand. (Yet he wasn't. In fact, Bull pretty much outed himself to people - it was a pretty effective 'cover' actually. His smarts outweighed his distinctive looks.)
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 2, 2017 22:07:13 GMT
Like I say, I only know what I've seen on You Tube but if the Inquisitor goes so far as to punch Dorian he does leave Skyhold before Corypheus is defeated, so there would appear to be limits even to Dorian's willingness to work with them. He still shows up in Trespasser and he doesn't protest if we make him join the party. Yet Inquisitor is going to Tevinter and needs people he/she can trust enough there or one who knows where to find people. Besides, knowing what they do, Dorian can't just ignore the threat to the world and focus on Imperium and Qunari. That'd be monumentally shortsighted, considering that Solas's plans threaten Tevinter as well. Well yeah, that was sort of the point. The epilogues are written from in-world POV and present somewhat more informed perception of how events have been tied up from most Southerner's perspective. For them, the war and toil is officially over and Inquisition leaves most people with impression that their mission's completed - while in reality the core of organization descends underground. Also - I'm fairly sure the rest of Inner Circle will be active in one way or another - but they're not part of the core, so their appearance in next game will likely be limited (esp. given their varied quantum states and relationships with Inky). Those we saw in post-epilogue scene we'll likely see more, in more than just a cameo.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2017 22:24:40 GMT
Like you said, with a continent embroiled in war and conflict it's not hard to find amputees and missing hand is not that hard to cover, especially if we assume that there'd be prosthetics involved. Besides - I think most people would reasonably expect for Inquisitor to travel everywhere with a pomp and endless entourage, and not some travelers somewhere on the road. Sera's reaction to Inquisitor at the start probably reflects the expectations of most people have of Thedas' most illustrious hero - she was fairly disappointed with what she saw, and that was when Inquisitor still had a glowy hand.True, it's not like we've not seen people fail to recognise heroes or our protagonists before. We know that Hawke's family had a passing familiarity with Leliana from their time in Lothering, but even they didn't realise until much later that she was the same woman referred to in the stories of the Warden. The Warden can also experience this several times in Awakening, despite being a national hero. There's a similar conversation in Inquisition where one person doubts whether or not the other had actually seen the Champion of Kirkwall in the Skyhold tavern.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 2, 2017 22:30:27 GMT
You guys are all forgetting, this is a game where every random NPC seems to know who you are, like you're wearing a flashing neon sign above your head.
*Inquisitor walks into a room full of strangers* Everyone: By Andraste, it's the Inquisitor! Me: Dafuq?
*Inquisitor goes to a guarded door* Guard: No entrance! Inquisitor: *showing no proof whatsoever* I'm the Inquisitor! Guard: Oh, I'm sorry go right in! Me: That's a crappy guard and should be fired.
I'm not just picking on DAI, either. This happens in a lot of games. I know, it would take too long to do an in game thing where the PC has to explain/prove to everyone they meet who they are. It's still funny.
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Post by arvaarad on Aug 3, 2017 0:30:18 GMT
I kinda have the feeling that the Inquisitor is a bit too high-profile to appear in Tevinter, since the whole reason they wanted to go there was to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about. This is why I think having Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game would be a great idea. She could easily step into the role of the Inquisitor's representative in Tevinter, Dwarves alone can navigate the Imperium unimpeded, Dreamers can't enter her dreams (because she doesn't experience them) and she gets along with Dorian. She could even be the one to introduce us to him and bring us into the loop perhaps? Those are some really good points about Lace Harding's suitability to Tevinter. On top of that, her guaranteed lack of magic (and lack of ties to Tevinter's dwarven allies) probably puts Qunari at ease.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 3, 2017 0:50:30 GMT
I'm not just picking on DAI, either. This happens in a lot of games. I know, it would take too long to do an in game thing where the PC has to explain/prove to everyone they meet who they are. It's still funny. I'd actually love it if we had the reverse of that situation at one point; Guard: Halt, identification. Inquisitor: I don't have any. Guard: Then I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. Inquisitor: Uh, I'm the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: I have a glowing hand? Guard: Could be fake. Inquisitor: Fake?Guard: Green paint. Inquisitor: Look, I'm really the Inquisitor. Guard: I've seen people claiming to be the "Inquisitor" coming and going all morning. Inquisitor: Yes, that was me!Guard: Then you should know about Commander Cullen's plans to tighten security. Inquisitor: By not allowing anyone in the building? Even me! Leliana: Is there a problem? Inquisitor: Yes, I can't decide if I want to promote or strangle this guard. Leliana: Excuse me, but this truly is the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: Here we go... Leliana: I'm Sister Nightingale, Left Hand of the Divine. Guard: And where your identification? Dammit Cullen, what have you unleashed?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 3, 2017 3:17:48 GMT
I'm not just picking on DAI, either. This happens in a lot of games. I know, it would take too long to do an in game thing where the PC has to explain/prove to everyone they meet who they are. It's still funny. I'd actually love it if we had the reverse of that situation at one point; Guard: Halt, identification. Inquisitor: I don't have any. Guard: Then I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. Inquisitor: Uh, I'm the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: I have a glowing hand? Guard: Could be fake. Inquisitor: Fake?Guard: Green paint. Inquisitor: Look, I'm really the Inquisitor. Guard: I've seen people claiming to be the "Inquisitor" coming and going all morning. Inquisitor: Yes, that was me!Guard: Then you're know about Commander Cullen's plans to tighten security. Inquisitor: By not allowing anyone in the building? Even me! Leliana: Is there a problem? Inquisitor: Yes, I can't decide if I want to promote or strangle this guard. Leliana: Excuse me, but this truly is the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: Here we go... Leliana: I'm Sister Nightingale, Left Hand of the Divine. Guard: And where your identification? Dammit Cullen, what have you unleashed? Hey, now. Good security is everyone's responsibility. He's just doing his job. I would have loved at least one scene like that. lol Claiming the glowing and snapping light of the Anchor was paint would have been a bit much, though. lol
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 3, 2017 8:21:08 GMT
I'm not just picking on DAI, either. This happens in a lot of games. I know, it would take too long to do an in game thing where the PC has to explain/prove to everyone they meet who they are. It's still funny. I'd actually love it if we had the reverse of that situation at one point; Guard: Halt, identification. Inquisitor: I don't have any. Guard: Then I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. Inquisitor: Uh, I'm the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: I have a glowing hand? Guard: Could be fake. Inquisitor: Fake?Guard: Green paint. Inquisitor: Look, I'm really the Inquisitor. Guard: I've seen people claiming to be the "Inquisitor" coming and going all morning. Inquisitor: Yes, that was me!Guard: Then you should know about Commander Cullen's plans to tighten security. Inquisitor: By not allowing anyone in the building? Even me! Leliana: Is there a problem? Inquisitor: Yes, I can't decide if I want to promote or strangle this guard. Leliana: Excuse me, but this truly is the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: Here we go... Leliana: I'm Sister Nightingale, Left Hand of the Divine. Guard: And where your identification? Dammit Cullen, what have you unleashed? I would have loved if the Inquisitor could have spectated a scene that was a complete reversal - where some people insisted someone else was the Inquisitor, despite this person vehemently denying it. Kinda like the scene in Life of Brian.
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Elessara
N3
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Post by Elessara on Aug 3, 2017 10:33:00 GMT
I'd actually love it if we had the reverse of that situation at one point; Guard: Halt, identification. Inquisitor: I don't have any. Guard: Then I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. Inquisitor: Uh, I'm the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: I have a glowing hand? Guard: Could be fake. Inquisitor: Fake?Guard: Green paint. Inquisitor: Look, I'm really the Inquisitor. Guard: I've seen people claiming to be the "Inquisitor" coming and going all morning. Inquisitor: Yes, that was me!Guard: Then you should know about Commander Cullen's plans to tighten security. Inquisitor: By not allowing anyone in the building? Even me! Leliana: Is there a problem? Inquisitor: Yes, I can't decide if I want to promote or strangle this guard. Leliana: Excuse me, but this truly is the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: Here we go... Leliana: I'm Sister Nightingale, Left Hand of the Divine. Guard: And where your identification? Dammit Cullen, what have you unleashed? I would have loved if the Inquisitor could have spectated a scene that was a complete reversal - where some people insisted someone else was the Inquisitor, despite this person vehemently denying it. Kinda like the scene in Life of Brian. That's what my Inquisitor actually felt like sometimes lol. That she was in the place of Brian in that clip. I'm NOT the Herald of Andraste, I'm NOT the Herald of Andraste!
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 3, 2017 11:01:05 GMT
... Will never ever not be not relevant to Inquisition xD (though I can't help to see Solas in place of Brian screaming to the crowd. I almost bet that "you're all individuals!" failed pep-talk happened at one point and it's probably what made Solas lose his faith in humanity )
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 3, 2017 11:05:09 GMT
Would just point out that the reason he turns up in Trespasser is not because the world is under threat but because he has been made the official Tevinter ambassador to the Exalted Council, something he takes great pleasure in pointing out to a hostile Inquisitor. "Bet you never thought you see me again", followed by a very expressive laugh.
As for not objecting to joining the party, may be the writers just didn't give enough attention to detail to have him explain why he didn't object. Like I say, I've not played through that scenario personally so I don't know how the conversation differs between them from that point on. However, once it becomes clear it does involve a Qunari plot against the south, which would have bad repercussions for Tevinter should it succeed, naturally he would want to assist in putting it down even if he despises the Inquisitor.
However, Dorian not liking the way the Inquisitor does things could affect whether he actually wants to work with them directly or in parallel through an intermediary. He might have less objections now their organisation has been cut down in size but he did consider them a cancerous growth spreading across Thedas and for that matter he might have a different idea of the approach that should be taken in dealing with Solas. I doubt a hostile Inquisitor (to both Dorian and Solas) would be interested in saving Solas from himself. Dorian could still be actively working against Solas without answering to the Inquisitor.
Whilst his reaction when my Solasmancer declared "we must save Solas" was disapproval, that doesn't rule out that Dorian might be willing to consider saving Solas from himself over hunting him down like a dog/wolf. In my own head cannon on that particular play through, the reason Dorian disapproves is because he knows how much Solas hurt her and is more concerned about her continued devotion to Solas after his previous deception was revealed, based off the Viddasala's description of him. After her confrontation with Solas and hearing what he said to her, may be he could feel that Solas could be saved too. With her I definitely feel the crystal is useful in providing her with moral support as much as him.
Like with everything else, I suppose we shall just have to wait and see.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 3, 2017 11:44:06 GMT
Would just point out that the reason he turns up in Trespasser is not because the world is under threat but because he has been made the official Tevinter ambassador to the Exalted Council, something he takes great pleasure in pointing out to a hostile Inquisitor. "Bet you never thought you see me again", followed by a very expressive laugh.
He's not laughing when Inquisitor comes and tells him to travel with him through eluvians. Everybody who does that is risking their life. No, at this point you're just trying to explain with assumed meta what clearly didn't happen. If they wanted for Dorian to make an obvious statement, it would be as simple as switching off his tarot card on selection screen when we form the party. Similar thing happened with companions snubbing Inquisitor if they didn't like him/her - they just didn't give us option to talk to them much. There was no need to make it more. Same with Dorian. He's simply not a person to ignore the danger and I don't see him focusing on Tevinter/Qunari alone after what he learns in Trespasser. Nobody says he has to "answer to" Inquisitor - working with them however is the most pragmatic option. Cassandra may despise Inquisitor so much that she gets drunk and bemoans elevating them to where they are, but she still shows up at the end to work with Inky. She knows that she alone wouldn't be as effective - heck, she knows she won't be able to actively work against Solas even as a Divine. She still shows up in post-epilogue scene. And Dorian was the one who loudly praised Cassandra's pragmatism, so I don't think he'd be much different in that regard. I wouldn't judge the disapproval at Lavellan's reaction to be Dorian's final statement of how he views Solas or what he thinks is the best way to deal with them. That whole scene was supposed to be super-spontaneous, full of surprise, mixed feelings and snap judgement, both that of Inquisitor and companions. Cooler heads likely prevailed later. Ultimately, I think the priority for all of those working against Solas would be finding a way to stop him - what will happen to Solas after the danger's over would be a secondary matter, unless the plan requires deviating to two or more different paths. We don't know what kind of solutions will be presented, but I don't expect for roads to diverge up until halfway point at the earliest and finale at the latest. Until that point, people would probably just be forced to join forces out of sheer necessity. Which - I'd like to add - is very much a Dragon Age thing to do. Yup.
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Post by Seven Zettabytes on Aug 3, 2017 13:02:53 GMT
I'd actually love it if we had the reverse of that situation at one point; Guard: Halt, identification. Inquisitor: I don't have any. Guard: Then I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. Inquisitor: Uh, I'm the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: I have a glowing hand? Guard: Could be fake. Inquisitor: Fake?Guard: Green paint. Inquisitor: Look, I'm really the Inquisitor. Guard: I've seen people claiming to be the "Inquisitor" coming and going all morning. Inquisitor: Yes, that was me!Guard: Then you should know about Commander Cullen's plans to tighten security. Inquisitor: By not allowing anyone in the building? Even me! Leliana: Is there a problem? Inquisitor: Yes, I can't decide if I want to promote or strangle this guard. Leliana: Excuse me, but this truly is the Inquisitor. Guard: Identification.Inquisitor: Here we go... Leliana: I'm Sister Nightingale, Left Hand of the Divine. Guard: And where your identification? Dammit Cullen, what have you unleashed? Cullen could give this guy a promotion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 3, 2017 17:00:12 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 3, 2017 20:56:36 GMT
I think you are overlooking the changed set of circumstances here. This is an Inquisitor who punched both Solas and Dorian. As a result of this treatment, Dorian leaves BEFORE the final battle with Corypheus (at least that is what the You Tube video implies). Admittedly it is after the Temple of Mythal, because he criticises them for killing the sentinels, so you could argue that he feels Corypheus is as good as finished with his army destroyed but the fact is he left when the threat has not been completely dealt with because he could not stomach working with them any more. There's no overlooking of the fact that in Trespasser Dorian chooses to cooperate with Inquisitor, no matter how much he despises them. There's just now way around it.
Why would there need to be an explanation? Neither Cassandra or Varric have to explain themselves, even if they dislike Inquisitor as much as Dorian - someone needs to face the danger and they choose to cooperate. It's the right way to do.
I think you forgot Viddassala and the troves of evidence we pass in various locales in Trespasser. Dorian is smart enough to put 2:2 out of biased accounts and some evidence he's witnessed. He's not exactly dim.
Considering that we know from end of Trespasser that Inky is not working alone, and Leliana - and especially Cassandra - have proven themselves to be trustworthy to Dorian, him being "bah, I'm not helping this Inquisitor guy/gal" is highly unlikely given who Inquisitor works with. One can't really ignore actions of the most despised person if somehow this person manages to cooperate with sensible people (some of them may even be Divine!), some of whom dislike Inquisitor as much as he does and yet choose to cooperate for the greater good of Thedas. That's enough of the clue to suggest that this is not a matter to ignore.
It really wasn't "really big" especially in relation to what happened in Trespasser - Solas' presence in ToM is optional. Dorian ALWAYS appears in Winter Palace and never utters a word of protest, just like other companions who dislike Inky as much as he does. All of them follow into eluvians, and all of them do so, because the situation is serious. Given what we know of these companions, this is not behavior that is not OOC for them. But ignoring the danger is.
Please just... stop inventing flimsy meta-reasons. I'm fine with discussions going far and wide, especially in times of content drought, but this is where I put line in the sand.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 3, 2017 22:23:09 GMT
Okay... I know that folks have pointed out that there's some stuff related to Dragon Age in Sims 4, but I did manage to spit my drink when I've suddenly found this option in my menu:
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Post by Walter Black on Aug 3, 2017 23:25:32 GMT
I kinda have the feeling that the Inquisitor is a bit too high-profile to appear in Tevinter, since the whole reason they wanted to go there was to covertly find allies that Solas wouldn't know about. This is why I think having Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game would be a great idea. She could easily step into the role of the Inquisitor's representative in Tevinter, Dwarves alone can navigate the Imperium unimpeded, Dreamers can't enter her dreams (because she doesn't experience them) and she gets along with Dorian. She could even be the one to introduce us to him and bring us into the loop perhaps? You had me at "Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game"One small problem, Solas knows all about Harding, all her contacts and how she would act . As much as I would prefer Dagna, it might be better if the Inquisition agent is completely new.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 4, 2017 2:12:56 GMT
You had me at "Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game"One small problem, Solas knows all about Harding, all her contacts and how she would act . As much as I would prefer Dagna, it might be better if the Inquisition agent is completely new. Yeah but harding's benefits outweigh that. One, she'll be hard as hell to track if she so chooses, cus scout. Two, she can't be tracked via the Fade. Three, there's possibly a sizable population of dwarves in (parts of) Tevinter to blend in with and she won't look out of place in a crowd. And four, she can always change her looks and stick out less.
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Post by tacsear on Aug 4, 2017 10:36:47 GMT
You had me at "Lace Harding return as a companion in the next game"One small problem, Solas knows all about Harding, all her contacts and how she would act . As much as I would prefer Dagna, it might be better if the Inquisition agent is completely new. Don't you fucking say it! Harding is smart and her and Solas aren't best pals or something. She would be a good choice imo.
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