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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 13, 2016 0:35:34 GMT
We don't really know that the painted box she references is actually the painted box you pick up in Irving's chamber. It's possible it's the same box but also possible that it isn't. Also, the Warden didn't give the painted box to a small child, they went to a door in Denerim, knocked on the door and gave the box to someone who isn't described. You never heard the child giggle? You always hear her when you give the box to her and when you exit and enter the warehouse or Wonders of Thedas you can hear the girl giggling a bit madly. *tries to remember*
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 0:47:49 GMT
LOL I do think the amulet Sera mentions to tease the Inquisitor is an easter egg of the one you give the crazy girl near the orphanage though.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 13, 2016 0:51:04 GMT
Hello I did the sequel of my last drawing, Thread of fate Because I hate myself this much lol Post
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 0:51:11 GMT
We don't really know that the painted box she references is actually the painted box you pick up in Irving's chamber. It's possible it's the same box but also possible that it isn't. Also, the Warden didn't give the painted box to a small child, they went to a door in Denerim, knocked on the door and gave the box to someone who isn't described. You never heard the child giggle? You always hear her when you give the box to her and when you exit and enter the warehouse or Wonders of Thedas you can hear the girl giggling a bit madly. But you don't take the painted box to the Wonders of Thedas. You take the box to a mysterious door in an alley. I don't recall ever hearing a child giggle when delivering the box to the mysterious door but it has been awhile since I played DAO. Nor do I remember actually seeing who you give the painted box to.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 0:56:07 GMT
No lol I mean if you come in and out of the other places you hear the giggle. She giggles each time the section loads. Only after you give the person the box. And yeah we never see the person. We just hand over the box and then when the cutscene ends you hear the child giggle. The box is also a Red Jenny quest. I just played DAO you see lol I beat it in 2 days with an OP Warrior so it's fresh in my head. I am on a super powerful computer and was shocked at all the graphic errors I'm getting though. Blood that is flickering red boxes , Loghain's head ended up on his shoulders when I gave him a gift (don't ask lol) and my game crashes in the Lothering Chantry
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 1:00:54 GMT
No lol I mean if you come in and out of the other places you hear the giggle. She giggles each time the section loads. Only after you give the person the box. And yeah we never see the person. We just hand over the box and then when the cutscene ends you hear the child giggle. The box is also a Red Jenny quest. I just played DAO you see lol I beat it in 2 days with an OP Warrior so it's fresh in my head. I am on a super powerful computer and was shocked at all the graphic errors I'm getting though. Blood that is flickering red boxes , Loghain's head ended up on his shoulders when I gave him a gift (don't ask lol) and my game crashes in the Lothering Chantry I recall no giggling at all but now I want to see if I actually have a save game at the right point so I can go see. =p
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 13, 2016 1:01:31 GMT
Yeah, the possibility that Titans are Forgotten Ones is small and there is little evidence to support it in the lore, I agree.
Something else I have often wondered (tinfoil hats!) is whether the first humans were actually elf-dwarf crosses - possibly in response to the Veil having been erected and early signs of it not being a great thing for ancient elves. Or maybe it happened earlier and was an attempt by some mad scientist elf like Ghilan'nain to take advantage of the strengths of both races - similar to the apparent attempt to breed dragon-people who have now developed into the Qunari.
I kind of feel that the fact that elves don't pass on elven traits if they have children with anyone other than another elf may be a hint of this possibility, and also of their spirit origins. Humans have magical abilities like elves, but they also seem a little more solid/earthy, like dwarves. The magical elven genetics, remnants of their spirit/mutable origins, get overridden by the more solid and permanent Titan/stone/dwarf traits. Or something along those lines.
Many fans seem to think that humans arrived in Thedas before the Veil was erected, but I think the lore we have been given is ambiguous. We really don't have a clue about when Solas actually did erect it, other than that it must have been more than 3790 years ago, because -2850 Ancient is when elves first started noticing the quickening. That was only 250 years after the first reports of humanity arriving in Thedas - and Thedosian scholars apparently debate this, asking where humans are supposed to have come from and why they would have left that place of origin. Why indeed? Maybe they have been in Thedas ever since they arose (or were engineered) as a species.
Edited: date was noted incorrectly...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 1:02:35 GMT
No lol I mean if you come in and out of the other places you hear the giggle. She giggles each time the section loads. Only after you give the person the box. And yeah we never see the person. We just hand over the box and then when the cutscene ends you hear the child giggle. The box is also a Red Jenny quest. I just played DAO you see lol I beat it in 2 days with an OP Warrior so it's fresh in my head. I am on a super powerful computer and was shocked at all the graphic errors I'm getting though. Blood that is flickering red boxes , Loghain's head ended up on his shoulders when I gave him a gift (don't ask lol) and my game crashes in the Lothering Chantry I recall no giggling at all but now I want to see if I actually have a save game at the right point so I can go see. =p If you don't have the time you can view it here!
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Post by Nimlowyn on Aug 13, 2016 1:04:53 GMT
I recall no giggling at all but now I want to see if I actually have a save game at the right point so I can go see. =p If you don't have the time you can view it here! BABY SERA. (4:40 mark)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 1:06:13 GMT
LOL she said she would have been 9 or 10 so probably like the little girls we see in the Alienage. They are so cute! My Tabris adored telling them stories!
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 1:38:11 GMT
I recall no giggling at all but now I want to see if I actually have a save game at the right point so I can go see. =p If you don't have the time you can view it here! It actually didn't take me too long to find a save game. I rarely delete saves. I think I had over 1200 saves in Skyrim before finally clearing some out. Did I also mention I'm a little OCD about saving games? But only a little! At any rate ... yes! Child's giggle. Could be boy or girl though. Hard to tell, sounds like a young child. And you only hear it when you give the box and when you transition out of the warehouse or World of Thedas but nowhere else. I tested Genitivi's place, Wade's Emporium and the tavern also. Also, wow loading up DAO kinda took me back. I have to admit I really do appreciate the faster paced combat in DA2 and DAI.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 1:41:41 GMT
LOL I am OCD about collecting and completing everything! I think by the time I loaded up Trespasser I had nothing left to do in the main game Yeah I think what makes some of us think it's Sera besides the giggle is it's a Red Jenny quest and she said she was given painted boxes to play with and she does mention seeing a Warden. And the Inquisitor freaks out and is like "you forgot the HOF!" I know right? It was fun but I felt restrained and less flexible.
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 13, 2016 1:48:12 GMT
If you don't have the time you can view it here! It actually didn't take me too long to find a save game. I rarely delete saves. I think I had over 1200 saves in Skyrim before finally clearing some out. Did I also mention I'm a little OCD about saving games? But only a little! At any rate ... yes! Child's giggle. Could be boy or girl though. Hard to tell, sounds like a young child. And you only hear it when you give the box and when you transition out of the warehouse or World of Thedas but nowhere else. I tested Genitivi's place, Wade's Emporium and the tavern also. Also, wow loading up DAO kinda took me back. I have to admit I really do appreciate the faster paced combat in DA2 and DAI. Wait, so that means they had Sera planned since the beginning? That's... suspicious. Especially when one-shot companions like Merrill were clearly not planned on from the get-go. Hmm. I wonder if Sera's... rather harsh reception has changed any of their plans.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 2:05:31 GMT
It actually didn't take me too long to find a save game. I rarely delete saves. I think I had over 1200 saves in Skyrim before finally clearing some out. Did I also mention I'm a little OCD about saving games? But only a little! At any rate ... yes! Child's giggle. Could be boy or girl though. Hard to tell, sounds like a young child. And you only hear it when you give the box and when you transition out of the warehouse or World of Thedas but nowhere else. I tested Genitivi's place, Wade's Emporium and the tavern also. Also, wow loading up DAO kinda took me back. I have to admit I really do appreciate the faster paced combat in DA2 and DAI. Wait, so that means they had Sera planned since the beginning? That's... suspicious. Especially when one-shot companions like Merrill were clearly not planned on from the get-go. Hmm. I wonder if Sera's... rather harsh reception has changed any of their plans. We actually don't know that they had Sera planned from the beginning though. I mean, the evidence is kinda thin. There was the random (optional) side quest called Friends of Red Jenny to get a painted box from the Circle Tower and take it to Denerim. We hear a child's giggle after the box is turned in. We know Sera was a child in Denerim during the Fifth Blight, she mentions playing with a painted box and she mentions hearing about a Warden - she says maybe they died or maybe they didn't she didn't remember (which is when our DAI char can go, omg you forgot about the HoF). What we don't know is how much of that they used as simply easter eggs when creating Sera or if they actually had planned Sera from the beginning. I wouldn't rule it out but ... who knows. The story has changed somewhat over time and development. I'm glad Solas as a character changed (to get somewhat back on topic heh). It would have been entirely too easy to simply hate him if he'd stayed the lying trickster they'd originally intended.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 2:09:24 GMT
Wait, so that means they had Sera planned since the beginning? That's... suspicious. Especially when one-shot companions like Merrill were clearly not planned on from the get-go. Hmm. I wonder if Sera's... rather harsh reception has changed any of their plans. We actually don't know that they had Sera planned from the beginning though. I mean, the evidence is kinda thin. There was the random (optional) side quest called Friends of Red Jenny to get a painted box from the Circle Tower and take it to Denerim. We hear a child's giggle after the box is turned in. We know Sera was a child in Denerim during the Fifth Blight, she mentions playing with a painted box and she mentions hearing about a Warden - she says maybe they died or maybe they didn't she didn't remember (which is when our DAI char can go, omg you forgot about the HoF). What we don't know is how much of that they used as simply easter eggs when creating Sera or if they actually had planned Sera from the beginning. I wouldn't rule it out but ... who knows. The story has changed somewhat over time and development. I'm glad Solas as a character changed (to get somewhat back on topic heh). It would have been entirely too easy to simply hate him if he'd stayed the lying trickster they'd originally intended. I kept picturing some punk brat like Puck or Loki. This wise and very bald hobo-like elf was not at all what I was expecting but the elves did warn of him: "The pages of this book-memory?-warn of a terrible danger, a wolf with slavering black jaws and pits for eyes. The Evanuris-the elven gods-stand in a ring around it, as if preventing it from attacking. "Beware the forms of Fen'Harel! The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits. He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison. Remember the price of treason, and keep in your heart the mercy of your gods."
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 13, 2016 3:55:48 GMT
Getting caught up on the thread again... Back on page 38 people were talking about Titans maybe giving rise to spirits who then turned into elves and turned against the Titans, and someone brought up Forgotten Ones, and I had a sudden thought - what if the Titans are the Forgotten Ones? Probably they aren't. But... what if they are? No one remembered them until Valta, really. And there's evidence in The Descent that the Shaperate's records were altered long ago. What if some darn elf (or group of elves) had something to do with that? I've put this theory forward multiple times, but it always gets rejected on the basis that Geldauran, Anaris and Daern'athal are believed to be outcast Evanuris, and are called the Forgotten Ones. The only thing we really know about them from legend, other than cults for them still exist, and that Geldauran seemed to have been imprisoned for a time in the Arbor Wilds, is that Solas supposedly locked them up at the same time as the Evanuris. We have no idea what they looked like, what their real function was, or how they interacted with the Evanuris... or for that matter, what being "Forgotten" really means in Elvhen culture. They could have been working for the Titans for all we know, which certainly would have brought them into conflict with the other Evanuris who wanted to conquer them. I definitely think they have ties to the Titans. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but we do know that Gelduran could write. It was in a rune, I believe, and it could have been done through a surrogate, so you still might be right. But the Titans are mountain/tectonic plate-sized beings. Writing a manifesto/vow of vengeance on a glyph/rune/wall in a people-sized temple is odd if they're that large. Not impossible. but weird. Especially since it was above ground and the Titans and dwarves are typically below ground. Now, the Forgotten Ones being allied with the Titans, sure. Could see that.
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Post by spiritofsolace on Aug 13, 2016 4:24:51 GMT
Another thing that is wrong with twitter, is that I feel a bit like a crazy-fangirl stalker when I follow PW... I mean he posts about his family life too, and it seems like you are intruding or something Authors answering questions on their official forum would be so much better I get you, that is a little awkward. I wish they would get a blog to communicate with fans. Their posts would be findable for one and they would be able to answer only questions they want to answer without an entitled angry mob breathing down their neck. I think I understand why they prefer reddit but I don't see anything all that great about twitter. Just have to make do I guess
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Post by CapricornSun on Aug 13, 2016 4:39:26 GMT
Hello I did the sequel of my last drawing, Thread of fate Because I hate myself this much lol PostAnother brilliant artwork! Great job as always, Amburu! Wow you work fast!
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Post by CapricornSun on Aug 13, 2016 5:09:19 GMT
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Post by spiritofsolace on Aug 13, 2016 8:19:59 GMT
Hmm. I wonder if Sera's... rather harsh reception has changed any of their plans. If they did have plans honestly, I hope so. But would they really have an important character be optional to the degree that Sera is? I mean Dorian is likely to be in Da4 but unlike Serra you can't avoid meeting him entirely the way you can her.
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Post by ellawyn on Aug 13, 2016 10:11:03 GMT
Hmm. I wonder if Sera's... rather harsh reception has changed any of their plans. If they did have plans honestly, I hope so. But would they really have an important character be optional to the degree that Sera is? I mean Dorian is likely to be in Da4 but unlike Serra you can't avoid meeting him entirely the way you can her. Sure. You can skip meeting Leliana in Origins and never see her until Inquisition, but that doesn't stop her from being important - to a lesser extent, this is true of Cullen and Merrill as well. The only major difference I see is that Leliana/Cullen/Merrill being important characters after their initial appearance was obviously unplanned But at the same time, nothing about Inquisition seems to deeply effect Sera, and you can't drastically alter her course by, like, making her Divine or sending her to the Wardens. Like, looking at the epilogue slides here, she always ends up with the Red Jennies - we can presume that's where she stays if we don't recruit her. So if the writers decide to continue her story, dealing with a world state where she wasn't recruited would be as simple as ignoring it entirely. Nothing in Inquisition changes her story to the point where that's impossible.
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Post by Tanyara on Aug 13, 2016 10:59:44 GMT
I just found this theorycrafting video, don't know if you've already seen it but I think it contained a couple of interesting ideas. Not a fan of all of them, but speculation is my jam
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 11:07:21 GMT
If they did have plans honestly, I hope so. But would they really have an important character be optional to the degree that Sera is? I mean Dorian is likely to be in Da4 but unlike Serra you can't avoid meeting him entirely the way you can her. I'm not a fan of the Sera is Andruil theory. I also doubt Sera was originally part of the long term plan. The fact that she and the Red Jenny stuff is all optional is indeed a good indication. The Andruil idea is fun to discuss, but seems weakly supported. Most people like to point to the image on one of her tarot cards looking like Andruil's vallaslin. Again, fun but...it kind of reminds me of all the fuss we made about allegedly seeing kissing elves in the clouds in Trespasser. I think the odd banter between Solas and Sera about the breach, language, and so forth was a way of showing how all the elves have some things in common which set them apart from the humans...even if elves like Sera are resistant to this connection. As hard as any elf may try, they are still an elf. Dalish or city elf, rebel or conformist, mage or no--in the future the fate of all elves may be tied. This moment in Trespasser stands out to me: She so badly wants eyes to just be eyes. In this moment she's forced face to face with her elfiness, yet she still wants to deny it. One's true nature can't be avoided, just as a tree can't disregard its roots. Since she was optional, I'll be surprised if we get a chance to see her crisis of identity come to head in DA4. It took me 2 PTs to warm up to her character (likely because I recruited her very late), but she's a lot of fun. I don't understand why she was poorly received. She's fun and I enjoy her for what she is but I can also understand why she was poorly received. My own issues with her stem from both the friendship and romance arcs. If you remove your vallaslin she's quite cruel about it. I don't think she particularly intends to be but instead of being a concerned and comforting friend she laughs at you/the dalish instead. This kind of stands out as she's one of the only four people (that I know of - Josephine, Sera, Cassandra, Cole) who mention it at all and one of the only two you can actually talk to about it (Josephine, Sera). Then with the romance after the Temple of Mythal she has no intention of giving up her own beliefs to be with you but fully expects you to give up all of your beliefs to be with her. The selfishness there is kind of mindboggling (to me). She does provide a very strong example of what Solas likely fears all of the modern elves will become. He does say she's the farthest from what she *should* be.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 13, 2016 11:32:08 GMT
Hello I did the sequel of my last drawing, Thread of fate Because I hate myself this much lol PostAnother brilliant artwork! Great job as always, Amburu ! Wow you work fast! I work fast, when i DO work hahahaha Thank you ~ ♥
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Oct 27, 2024 22:21:08 GMT
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Elessara
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August 2016
elessara
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Elessara on Aug 13, 2016 13:31:52 GMT
]She's fun and I enjoy her for what she is but I can also understand why she was poorly received. My own issues with her stem from both the friendship and romance arcs. If you remove your vallaslin she's quite cruel about it. I don't think she particularly intends to be but instead of being a concerned and comforting friend she laughs at you/the dalish instead. This kind of stands out as she's one of the only four people (that I know of - Josephine, Sera, Cassandra, Cole) who mention it at all and one of the only two you can actually talk to about it (Josephine, Sera). Then with the romance after the Temple of Mythal she has no intention of giving up her own beliefs to be with you but fully expects you to give up all of your beliefs to be with her. The selfishness there is kind of mindboggling (to me). She does provide a very strong example of what Solas likely fears all of the modern elves will become. He does say she's the farthest from what she *should* be. I agree about the things about her that annoy you. My characters didn't appreciate her attitudes on elfy stuff or Solas, but I respect the devs' not changing her character in order to make my character feel better about the Solas thing or anything else. The interaction seems more genuine that way. I haven't played through the romance, but again, that sounds in character for her. I can see how that would aggravate players, but it shouldn't have blindsided them given everything else she says in the game. Meh. Sera might be farthest from what she should be, but Solas also tells her, "We are not so far apart, you and I." He seems supportive of her work with the Red Jennies as well. Maybe Sera actually improved Solas' opinion of city elves. Maybe. Team Optimism! She certainly doesn't fit Solas' own description of city elves--powerless, clinging to memories of a better past and a few old traditions.
Solas seems to be supportive of her efforts with the Jennies because he appears to believe she has some higher goal for societal change. All she's really doing is having fun whilst sticking it to the nobles. Although I do agree with her when she asks why should she bother to take out the people on top because that would just create a new set of "people on top" who will most likely be just as bad as the ones currently there. And whilst she doesn't necessarily fit with Solas' description of the city elves I would say she's more likely an outlier. Most of the city elves probably do fit that description. But Sera would also take your head off for saying she's an elf at all so I'm not certain she's the best example of a city elf. I don't think Solas has actually spent much time among the city elves. He's probably seen things in dreams, heard what his agents reported but actually going to an alienage and talking to the people there? Not sure he's actually done that. He should.
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