The Blanketfort (crying and throwing up) - The Official Solas Thread [Spoilers]

No we didn't and I'll be furious if they force that assumption on us.

They are not exactly the same. In DAI our PC didn't know the ritual was taking place. They just walked in on it by accident and our acquisition of the magic ball was equally by chance. They didn't have any agency in what happened. If the security at the Conclave was what it should have been, neither Corypheus nor the PC should have got anywhere near the Divine or even gained admittance to the Conclave itself in the case of the Dalish or Carta PC.

In DAV Rook had already been told what Solas planned to do. The mission was to stop him destroying the world. Varric's brilliant plan was to talk him out of it.  He failed.  No one else had an alternative to offer, so Rook took the initiative and did what seemed logical to stop the ritual. I believe Neve may have made slight objection but not enough to dissuade Rook in the heat of the moment when, from everything they had been told, if Solas completed the ritual the world would end. So, they took decisive action that did stop the ritual. It is not their fault if Solas was doing something completely different at the time and so there were unforeseen consequences. Had Solas told Varric what he was doing, Rook might have acted differently as they appeared to be able to hear what was being said.

I swear if everyone dumps on Rook as a result of this and they are not allowed to defend themselves in the way I have outlined above, I shall be really angry. Rook acted in the only way they could in the circumstances and based off the information they had been given. As Rook I am perfectly prepared to live with the consequences but also defend their action.

Dropping the ball, often repeatedly, is a pillar of BioWare plots. Remember Trespasser? Two years pass without player input and now your precious organization is full of spies and everyone hates you because you're still squatting in their keeps. The game's writing fucks it up for you and then you as the protagonist get to apologize for it and fix it. Hopefully.

This is true but I did find it amusing that we uncovered a reason for its continued existence but the powers still weren't happy. In fact I do wonder how much we told them if Teagan was more concerned about Solas antagonising the Qunari than the fact that he wanted to destroy the Veil. It really seemed sureal. Solas or us with his prompting had exposed a Qunari plot to conquer the south, with evidence to back it up, but Teagan was worried that we might have upset the Qunari in doing this. I still don't understand that one. Even if I was angry with Solas for his deception and betrayal, I had to admit if he hadn't pointed us in the right direction we'd have been overrun with Qunari by the end, even assuming we'd avoided being blown to smithereens. I have no doubt that his motives weren't entirely altruistic (as he admitted was the case with a hostile Inquisitor) but nevertheless we did owe him one for that.

I agree with that, it's just that it all happened without any player input. You couldn't give back the keeps, you couldn't send your people to their well deserved private life and disband the Inquisition. If you could have done that everyone would have been content and there wouldn't have been an organization for Solas and the Qunari to infiltrate in the first place. The Inquisition's purpose was fulfilled anyway but it stuck around without the Inquisitor having a say about that for two years.

One of the first things we learn about in Trespasser is that the last 2 years are implied have been busier for Inquisition than when it was dealing with Corypheus.

Var Lath Vir Suledin


Translation:
"Do not be sorrowful, my heart,

The way of endurance rewards, and

Guides you to our love,

And our joy

- Solas"
sourse

Didn't know that Ghilan'nain's name actually meant guide. I mean I know the Dalish see her as the goddess of guides and navigation but I thought perhaps her name might mean something completely different in view of what we now know about her. On well you live and learn. Perhaps the actions of Ghilan'nain will reunite them.

Dang it Weekes, giving me hope for a happy ending. 

I have several thoughts on that to the contrary I would like to offer. To whit...

1: Is it better for there to be no Player input or for there to be Player input with no change in the actual beginning state? The story of Trespasser was set to be what it was. If they had written a different story, there probably would have been different actions the Player might have taken to scotch that start as well. At some point, the writers have little choice but to assume a particular beginning state and let the Player make some assumptions that connect the dots. So, if the writers had included a couple of scenes where your Inquisitor chooses these things, but you still wind up in Halamshiral with the Fereldens looking for better assurances that the Inquisition is gone and the Orlesians looking to snatch up the pieces, would this really seem like Player agency to you?


2: If you think it would be easy for the Inquisitor to just 'disband' the Inquisition, I'm afraid I have news for you. The first Inquisition went on for over a century and it didn't even disband then, but was subsumed into the budding Chantry as the Seekers of Truth and the Templars. Why would it make any sense for the Inquisition to disband when the Chantry is still getting back its footing under a new (probably highly controversial) Divine, Orlais is still weakened from the Civil War, and the remaining cells of Venatori and Red Templars are still out there? Assuming that the Inquisitions' mission was ended when Corypheus was finally defeated ignores the reality that most declarations of the 'mission' of the Inquisition do not reference Corypheus, but refer much more often to 'Order'. One of the reasons War Table missions exist is to communicate to the Player the effects of events on the wider world of Thedas. Those struggles are still ongoing with a distinct power vacuum, especially if you kick the Wardens out of the south.


3: If you think Teagan was actually worried about a pile of rock in the Crestwood, I have more bad news for you. I know the writers of Trespasser have received a fair amount of criticism for the portrayal of Teagan and I can understand some of that, but the fact of the matter is that there were plenty of signs that the sympathetic character of Origins had some flaws that explain his position in Trespasser. While he shows concern for the Darkspawn and support for the Wardens, it's often couched more in terms of his own family's power. Early on when Loghain seizes the regency to the throne: Teagan seeks to turn Anora against him not by pointing to the darkspawn threat or serious flaws in the story about the Wardens but pointing directly at Calen's (his nephew's) fate. (Did he also do what was best for your husband, Your Majesty?) With Calen dead and Aemon incapacitated, Teagan sees that the balance of power has shifted, even more when Arl Howe is given Highever in addition to Amaranthine. There's nothing wrong to being politically savvy as well as a generally good guy, but that also comes home to roost later. Consider that Teagan was almost goaded into a duel by Gaspard, which means that the feeling about the Orlesian occupation wasn't just a Loghain thing. That the Ferelden crown did not previously think much at all of Caer Bronach is easy to see as it had no discernable garrison and seemed to be in ill repair. The fort is just a symbol of the threat of a new, large, well provisioned and connected force whose leader is not connected to Ferelden in any way but is closely chummy with the Orlesian throne. Teagan is signaling to his other highborn audience that this is the true threat to him. Add in that the past years have not been kind to Teagan with Aemon drifting off then being ordered by the crown to accept the Rebel Mages only to have them throw him out of his own castle. To me, his attitude is entirely justified and even a qunari body and some explosive barrels don't clear that suspicion and fear away.

4: If you think the Inquisition is just another army, yup, still more bad news. Even if you did completely dismantle the army and abandon Skyhold, neither Ferelden or Orlais can allow the Inquisition to dissolve on its own terms. For this, a quick history story: when Napoleon first abdicated the Allied powers gave him a small island in the Mediterranean close to Corsica and the southern French coast with a detachment of soldiers and nominal control of the island. He was there 10 months before escaping having managed to raise a detachment of 1,000 troops and was in Paris in another month having taken in thousands of soldiers in his swelling army without having fired a shot. Back in Thedas, remember how absolutely certain Cassandra was that if they only had Hawke, everything would have been alright? There is no doubt in my mind that if the Inquisitor were to use their past and charisma, the Inquisition could again be a fearsome fighting force in a relatively short time and both Ferelden and Orlais knew that. The only way to neutralize that was to get the Inquisitor him/herself to disband or subsume that force AT the directions of the powers, thus establishing their authority. Political solution to a political problem. Even the choice of delegates that were not themselves the rulers but highly ranked ambassadors was intended to put the Inquisitor in their place without outright insulting them.

Thanks for your time.

I view it as we're co authors with BioWare. Effectively it's our characters, their story.

It's not so much that people wanted infinite possibilities, just a simple choice of "keep the Inquisition going as it was" or "start withdrawing Inquisition forces as order is established".  The Inquisition went full steam ahead after they defeated Cory without player input.  Personally, I would have liked to choose for a slow winding down of operations.  And it would have to be slow as by the end of the game the Inquisition wielded enormous political, military, economic, and religious power.  So it would likely have taken at least a few years to dissipate that without causing even more chaos.  And Teagan could have still been pissy about the Inquisition's continued existence, even if we gave back Crestwood and removed troops from Ferelden.  We had a standing army, smack on the border of Ferelden and Orlais still wanted to subsume the Inquisition.  That's a threat Ferelden can't ignore.

I can see how they could have given us the choice of going full steam ahead or slowly winding down.  Going full steam, Arl Teagan is hostile and aggressive as he was in Trespasser.  Slowly winding down, Teagan is not hostile or aggressive but still resolute and firm in his belief the Inquisition needs to go more quickly than it is.  I also wish they had given us the choice to tell the Exalted Council about the Qunari and all it would have really changed is the tone of the reactions at the end cutscene of the Council (where you decide to disband or go into the Chantry).

But they also added a good bit with Trespasser so maybe including what would ultimately be a cosmetic choice just wasn't in the budget.  It's over and done with now and I doubt Arl Teagan being a jerk is going to come up again unless we wreak more havoc in Redcliffe in Veilguard lol.

Thank you for your time... and all the bad news

In fact, I would call them good news if that's what happened because it would mean that BioWare would put a lot of detailed thought even into somewhat minor NPCs like Teagan.

I agree with your first point. BioWare essentially pulled their version of a tabletop GM starting a scene with "Before any of you can react..."  See also the ambush by the bandit king in "The Gamers". Sometimes it's just the most convenient way to get a plot off the launch pad. I would have been happy with just some minor interactions on the matter. Like discussing giving up the keeps with Josephine and if there were reasons against that being able to give these reasons when challenged instead of just looking like a fool for something I had no say in.

As far as anything else goes... I think the reason for those things is just BioWare being inconsistent in their writing. If no names would have been given, how many players would have looked at and talked to Teagan and recognized the man? Or Redcliffe for that matter? Sometimes BioWare doesn't follow up on plot ideas, sometimes things just change. I mean, the Ghost of Lady Aribeth in the overrated Hordes of the Underdark gave you a different background story than the living Lady Aribeth in the main game because the writer hadn't read her character's history before doing his thing. You have to kill both Meredith and Orsino at the end of DA2 not because of some great tragedy writing but because BioWare wanted two boss fights. And so on.

I really believe that there are people on this forum who put way more thought and effort in the game lore than BioWare do themselves.