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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 5:11:29 GMT
They'd get over it if the game were good. I believe dodging the issue made things worse. Releasing an unfinished game like MEA would've killed the IP no matter which path was chosen. Given how people reacted to just the ending of Mass Effect 3 and kept talking and complaining about it for years it just seems that they won't get over it. Ridiculous behavior, out of proportion anger, and antisocial behavior is all the norm online. Without social media, the ME IP would definitely be in much better shape. The angry will claim that the online hate was justified. In reality, it was ridiculous. The ME3 endings sucked badly. They're embarrassingly bad. MEA had inexcusable issues. Still, neither was nearly as bad as the Internet mob suggests.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 22, 2018 5:25:48 GMT
Given how people reacted to just the ending of Mass Effect 3 and kept talking and complaining about it for years it just seems that they won't get over it. Ridiculous behavior, out of proportion anger, and antisocial behavior is all the norm online. Without social media, the ME IP would definitely be in much better shape. The angry will claim that the online hate was justified. In reality, it was ridiculous. The ME3 endings sucked badly. They're embarrassingly bad. MEA had inexcusable issues. Still, neither was nearly as bad as the Internet mob suggests. I agree and I think it would be the same with BioWare picking an ending for ME3. The majority will pretty much shrug their shoulders and move on, the few would rage and claim they speak for "everyone on the planet" and never stop. I just don't think BioWare wants to go through that again.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 22, 2018 5:53:12 GMT
Given how people reacted to just the ending of Mass Effect 3 and kept talking and complaining about it for years it just seems that they won't get over it. Ridiculous behavior, out of proportion anger, and antisocial behavior is all the norm online. Without social media, the ME IP would definitely be in much better shape. The angry will claim that the online hate was justified. In reality, it was ridiculous. The ME3 endings sucked badly. They're embarrassingly bad. MEA had inexcusable issues. Still, neither was nearly as bad as the Internet mob suggests. I thought the two sides fighting over the ME3 endings were quite funny.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 6:35:48 GMT
Ridiculous behavior, out of proportion anger, and antisocial behavior is all the norm online. Without social media, the ME IP would definitely be in much better shape. The angry will claim that the online hate was justified. In reality, it was ridiculous. The ME3 endings sucked badly. They're embarrassingly bad. MEA had inexcusable issues. Still, neither was nearly as bad as the Internet mob suggests. I thought the two sides fighting over the ME3 endings were quite funny. If it hadn't been over Mass Effect, I'd likely have had a chuckle. I was worried for the IP, mostly. I didn't want that to be the ME legacy.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 22, 2018 6:55:47 GMT
I thought the two sides fighting over the ME3 endings were quite funny. If it hadn't been over Mass Effect, I'd likely have had a chuckle. I was worried for the IP, mostly. I didn't want that to be the ME legacy. True. But the funny thing is that ME's legacy was all but killed by it's forth installment.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 6:56:55 GMT
If it hadn't been over Mass Effect, I'd likely have had a chuckle. I was worried for the IP, mostly. I didn't want that to be the ME legacy. True. But the funny thing is that ME's legacy was all but killed by it's forth installment. Sad but true.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 7:41:44 GMT
I agree and I think it would be the same with BioWare picking an ending for ME3. The majority will pretty much shrug their shoulders and move on, the few would rage and claim they speak for "everyone on the planet" and never stop. I just don't think BioWare wants to go through that again. People will be pissed no matter what they do. Even if they did pick something, they'd go "oh, but that's not the ending I wanted"...If synthesis was made canon. So they essentially haven't said anything on which ending is canon and left it up to the player to decide for themselves. However, people are still demanding for one to be made canon.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 8:46:50 GMT
I agree and I think it would be the same with BioWare picking an ending for ME3. The majority will pretty much shrug their shoulders and move on, the few would rage and claim they speak for "everyone on the planet" and never stop. I just don't think BioWare wants to go through that again. People will be pissed no matter what they do. Even if they did pick something, they'd go "oh, but that's not the ending I wanted"...If synthesis was made canon. So they essentially haven't said anything on which ending is canon and left it up to the player to decide for themselves. However, people are still demanding for one to be made canon. I wouldn't say I've seen anyone demanding it. Most fans with whom I've interacted adamantly oppose a canonized ending. Those of us who wanted such wanted it so that the Milky Way would still be viable after 2186 CE. It seems that BioWare thought advancing the timeline 634+ years might do the trick. (I'm sure the goal was mostly to shift to Andromeda for a time and weigh options while telling new stories. The lengthy FTL travel time was simply a bonus.) The near future setting was a lot of the appeal for me. The MET took place only 170 years from now. It loses some charm if it's 1000 years in the future. I imagine insane tech for sci-fi set that far in the future; not mass effect tech.
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Post by Ahriman on Jan 22, 2018 10:24:58 GMT
People will be pissed no matter what they do. Even if they did pick something, they'd go "oh, but that's not the ending I wanted"...If synthesis was made canon. So they essentially haven't said anything on which ending is canon and left it up to the player to decide for themselves. However, people are still demanding for one to be made canon. I wouldn't say I've seen anyone demanding it. Most fans with whom I've interacted adamantly oppose a canonized ending. Those of us who wanted such wanted it so that the Milky Way would still be viable after 2186 CE. It seems that BioWare thought advancing the timeline 634+ years might do the trick. (I'm sure the goal was mostly to shift to Andromeda for a time and weigh options while telling new stories. The lengthy FTL travel time was simply a bonus.) That's your selection then. Even on this forum you'll find enough people who want direct OT sequel with canon ending, not counting those who advocate possibility of ending merge. A lot of people feel attached to geographical points, like Omega or Tuchanka. For them it's core of ME and they are ready for canon, if it allows to return to Milky Way. I don't share the notion, but I believe that making destroy canon would get minimal resistance from fandom. For the record technological level in most of sci-fi settings is roughly the same, no matter how much time passed. Warhammer is 40k years into the future and the only thing that's different is the scale of overcompensation. Reaper tech is billions years old, but only a few times better than standard ME tech, not much for a progress speed.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 12:17:00 GMT
I wouldn't say I've seen anyone demanding it. Most fans with whom I've interacted adamantly oppose a canonized ending. Those of us who wanted such wanted it so that the Milky Way would still be viable after 2186 CE. It seems that BioWare thought advancing the timeline 634+ years might do the trick. (I'm sure the goal was mostly to shift to Andromeda for a time and weigh options while telling new stories. The lengthy FTL travel time was simply a bonus.) That's your selection then. Even on this forum you'll find enough people who want direct OT sequel with canon ending, not counting those who advocate possibility of ending merge. A lot of people feel attached to geographical points, like Omega or Tuchanka. For them it's core of ME and they are ready for canon, if it allows to return to Milky Way. I don't share the notion, but I believe that making destroy canon would get minimal resistance from fandom. For the record technological level in most of sci-fi settings is roughly the same, no matter how much time passed. Warhammer is 40k years into the future and the only thing that's different is the scale of overcompensation. Reaper tech is billions years old, but only a few times better than standard ME tech, not much for a progress speed. I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. I can't really tell. I was in favor of a canon ending and a Milky Way sequel. I'd have liked to have seen another game in the MW in the neighborhood of 2210 CE. That gives the galaxy a couple of decades to rebuild after the Reaper War. They'd still not be truly recovered, but things would have long since returned to "life as usual" in the important ways. "Technological stagnation" under these circumstances wouldn't be odd. Sci-Fi is all over the place. I don't follow goofy settings like Warhammer precisely because I can't take them seriously. I do like Star Wars, but it's equally ridiculous. It would be hard for me to swallow a setting in which our present Earth society advanced chronologically 1000 years but had so little technological advancement to show for it. I know the Asari, Salarians, Turians, etc... are very stagnant. Maybe that's their thing, though. Humans are on a meteoric rise in the setting. We don't stand pat. Having already introduced a fun, reasonably "believable" near future setting in ME, I'd hate to see the "same old shit in 3100 CE". The galactic community did nothing for 1000 years after overcoming the Reapers? (Particularly if Synthesis were the canon ending would stagnation be unacceptable.) It would be very hard to take seriously. There's a pretty cool pen and paper RPG setting called Numenera**. It's set on Earth 1 Billion years in the future. Not only is the planet habitable, but there are humans living on it. The peoples of the setting don't realize that the former is astonishing. They do know that the latter is strange. The world is covered in the technological detritus of many super advanced civilizations that have come and gone. These civilizations mastered dimensional technologies, intergalactic travel, produced insane nanotech, reshaped worlds, uplifted stars and any other number of crazy things. (Naturally, it's all as good as magic to the peoples of the setting. The understanding of their brightest is like a film of dust on the scales.) Anyway, getting to the point, the creators emphasize that words like "guns", "cars", "robots", or anything that equates to our world shouldn't even be used. If you want to approximate such things, at least find a different way to say it and reskin it in order to drive home the alien nature of advanced tech. While the setting is in many ways medieval science fantasy, a great effort is made to emphasize strange, inexplicable experiences due to incomprehensible tech. Advancing our timeline 1000 years should result in some bizarre, unpredictable changes. Since ME is our world +170 years, I think they should try to keep the timeline more tight than MEA seems to suggest of their plan. I know others will feel differently about this. Most won't give it this much thought. ME has been progressively stripped of its sci-fi ever since the Lazarus Project. I hate to see even the illusion I have in my mind dashed by unnecessary timeline jumps or whatever else. Let me pretend it's still sci-fi (ish). ** There is a video game, Torment: Tides of Numenera, based upon this setting. I'm not so sure it accurately conveys the true feel of the setting, but it does seem to convey the weirdness. They forced some features into the game, like "the tides", that simply don't work well outside of the video game.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jan 22, 2018 12:21:47 GMT
Yes. March 21 2022, ME4 will be released. Shepard and crew/squadmates including Miranda, return to make sure the threat of the reapers are completely eradicated after they were destroyed. The game will feature a trip to darkspace, learning more about the Initiative and what role Cerberus had in it and possibly Shepard visiting Leviathan again. The player will also learn the punishment to the asari for not revealing the artifact earlier. The Honorable Mr. Rupert Gardner, the greatest chef in the universe, will return to the Normandy to make his favorite dish, Calamari gumbo, for the Commander. There will be new discoveries. The opportunity for the player to play as a member of the crew or as a squadmate in the game. Will Shepard get a chance to seek revenge against Sam for losing at chess? Will James get a chance to reclaim his record for chin ups? Will Garrus get back at the Commander for one upping him after shooting bottles? Will the windows break the next time Tali sings? To find out and more, you can preorder the game. This is better plot than in MEA
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 18:23:11 GMT
I wouldn't say I've seen anyone demanding it. Most fans with whom I've interacted adamantly oppose a canonized ending. Those of us who wanted such wanted it so that the Milky Way would still be viable after 2186 CE. It seems that BioWare thought advancing the timeline 634+ years might do the trick. (I'm sure the goal was mostly to shift to Andromeda for a time and weigh options while telling new stories. The lengthy FTL travel time was simply a bonus.) The near future setting was a lot of the appeal for me. The MET took place only 170 years from now. It loses some charm if it's 1000 years in the future. I imagine insane tech for sci-fi set that far in the future; not mass effect tech. It is still viable post 2186, if people download and watch the EC. Civilization did eventually rebuild itself and continue on. Except, they weren't going to tell any more stories after that. Even in the original ending, civilization wasn't destroyed (bar the low EMS destroy ending which kills everyone), it was simply cut off from each other. People could still use FTL to get home or travel to other places.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 19:34:05 GMT
I wouldn't say I've seen anyone demanding it. Most fans with whom I've interacted adamantly oppose a canonized ending. Those of us who wanted such wanted it so that the Milky Way would still be viable after 2186 CE. It seems that BioWare thought advancing the timeline 634+ years might do the trick. (I'm sure the goal was mostly to shift to Andromeda for a time and weigh options while telling new stories. The lengthy FTL travel time was simply a bonus.) The near future setting was a lot of the appeal for me. The MET took place only 170 years from now. It loses some charm if it's 1000 years in the future. I imagine insane tech for sci-fi set that far in the future; not mass effect tech. It is still viable post 2186, if people download and watch the EC. Civilization did eventually rebuild itself and continue on. Except, they weren't going to tell any more stories after that. Even in the original ending, civilization wasn't destroyed (bar the low EMS destroy ending which kills everyone), it was simply cut off from each other. People could still use FTL to get home or travel to other places. I did say I had wanted a sequel set ~20 years after the MET. To do this they'd have to pick a canon ending. That's the point. Destroy will sound very different from Control. ("We defeated the Reapers" vs "The creepy bastards hover over everything" or "They just quit attacking and withdrew.") Synthesis has us living in harmony with the Reapers, and technology fused with biology. These are differences that would have to be acknowledged and addressed. BioWare chose not to do so and so we left the galaxy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 22:19:35 GMT
I did say I had wanted a sequel set ~20 years after the MET. To do this they'd have to pick a canon ending. That's the point. Destroy will sound very different from Control. ("We defeated the Reapers" vs "The creepy bastards hover over everything" or "They just quit attacking and withdrew.") Synthesis has us living in harmony with the Reapers, and technology fused with biology. These are differences that would have to be acknowledged and addressed. BioWare chose not to do so and so we left the galaxy. The differences were addressed in the Extended Cut. Whether that was up to people expectations is another thing. I guess it wasn't. People forget that Mass Effect, at least the first three games, were designed as a trilogy. There wasn't going to be a fourth game just for the aftermath. The Extended Cut shows the aftermath of the war. Like an epilogue in a book, it's a small section at the end of it. Epilogues are either left out entirely, or they are a short section at the end to wrap things up. They chose not to make an ending to ME3 canon, because they wanted to keep your choices relevant. You essentially get to decide how your final decision of the trilogy plays out, without the developers telling you which one is correct. In a game about player choice, I see that as a good thing. You can suggest to them that they should pick a canon ending, but they can always say no. They actually left the galaxy before the Reapers left. Secondly, when ME3 was released, they also said that any future games would take place before (Andromeda) or during ME3, but not afterwards. This part is true today.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 22, 2018 22:41:52 GMT
Yet saying that former squadmates wouldn't be permanent is a lie in of itself since Tali, Garrus, EDI, and Ash or Kai(dan) were mains. The only ones that are "mains" is the edibot, t'soni and Vega. Those 3 are mandatory. The others are not. Tali and Garrus can be dead in ME3 or Tali wasn't recruited in ME2. Kaidan/Ashley can either be shot during the coup or the player can send them to Hackett instead of bringing them back on the SR2 I would prefer having her on the squad instead of a couple that are on the squad. True. The only thing it fixed was the flashbacks as Shepard is choosing whatever ending. It left questions unanswered. I like Conrad. Its too bad that femshep couldn't say thank you when he said she is beautiful. In ME3, he had Shepard's back, something the ME3 squadmates can't say, when that guy was about to shoot Shepard, Conrad takes the bullet. He knew Shepard was vital to stopping the reapers. Too bad femshep couldn't give him a hug and maleshep shake his hand. Of course Jenna has to be in ME3 for him to survive. He also contributes assets to the cause. Even though its only a few, he still helps.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 22, 2018 22:53:42 GMT
They chose not to make an ending to ME3 canon, because they wanted to keep your choices relevant. You essentially get to decide how your final decision of the trilogy plays out, without the developers telling you which one is correct. In a game about player choice, I see that as a good thing. Having choices relevant means having ALL choices relevant, right? In ME1, the player gets the option, choice, to recruit Garrus or not. If he isn't recruited in ME1, taken to Sur'Kesh, and Kirrahe happened to survive ME1, both know each other by name. How is that possible? Did Bioware ignore my choice? Yes. If they can ignore that choice, regardless of how insignificant, then they can ignore any choice they want. In a thread, back in 2013, someone posted a tweet from Mike Gamble saying Bioware respects players choice. I replied to that post by saying that Gamble may want to play the game to make sure what he's tweeting is correct.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 22, 2018 23:19:44 GMT
I did say I had wanted a sequel set ~20 years after the MET. To do this they'd have to pick a canon ending. That's the point. Destroy will sound very different from Control. ("We defeated the Reapers" vs "The creepy bastards hover over everything" or "They just quit attacking and withdrew.") Synthesis has us living in harmony with the Reapers, and technology fused with biology. These are differences that would have to be acknowledged and addressed. BioWare chose not to do so and so we left the galaxy. The differences were addressed in the Extended Cut. Whether that was up to people expectations is another thing. I guess it wasn't. People forget that Mass Effect, at least the first three games, were designed as a trilogy. There wasn't going to be a fourth game just for the aftermath. The Extended Cut shows the aftermath of the war. Like an epilogue in a book, it's a small section at the end of it. Epilogues are either left out entirely, or they are a short section at the end to wrap things up. They chose not to make an ending to ME3 canon, because they wanted to keep your choices relevant. You essentially get to decide how your final decision of the trilogy plays out, without the developers telling you which one is correct. In a game about player choice, I see that as a good thing. You can suggest to them that they should pick a canon ending, but they can always say no. They actually left the galaxy before the Reapers left. Secondly, when ME3 was released, they also said that any future games would take place before (Andromeda) or during ME3, but not afterwards. This part is true today. I’m not sure we’re having the same conversation. You’re addressing arguments I’ve never made, and at times repeating to me things I’ve already said. I’ll assume that you focused on just one of my posts rather than seeing all of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 1:05:25 GMT
They chose not to make an ending to ME3 canon, because they wanted to keep your choices relevant. You essentially get to decide how your final decision of the trilogy plays out, without the developers telling you which one is correct. In a game about player choice, I see that as a good thing. Having choices relevant means having ALL choices relevant, right? In ME1, the player gets the option, choice, to recruit Garrus or not. If he isn't recruited in ME1, taken to Sur'Kesh, and Kirrahe happened to survive ME1, both know each other by name. How is that possible? Did Bioware ignore my choice? Yes. If they can ignore that choice, regardless of how insignificant, then they can ignore any choice they want. In a thread, back in 2013, someone posted a tweet from Mike Gamble saying Bioware respects players choice. I replied to that post by saying that Gamble may want to play the game to make sure what he's tweeting is correct. The ending doesn't make all your choices irrelevant. Angry fans believed their choices were made irrelevant. Maybe they knew each other off screen. Not everything is said in dialogue form you know. Are you suggesting Mike Gamble is lying to you? If you are, then it's kind of hard to take things you say seriously. I'm sure he has played the game. He's the producer, who oversees all the departments and such. I'm sure he's checked their work, which means actually playing the game.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 23, 2018 2:20:59 GMT
The ending doesn't make all your choices irrelevant. Angry fans believed their choices were made irrelevant. I never said the ending made choices irrelevant I doubt that. What explanation does he have for what I posted about the choice being ignored?
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 23, 2018 4:06:01 GMT
The ending doesn't make all your choices irrelevant. Angry fans believed their choices were made irrelevant. I never said the ending made choices irrelevant He is at it again -putting words in the mouths of others. He must be trolling. Ignore him. Are you suggesting Mike Gamble is lying to you? If you are, then it's kind of hard to take things you say seriously. I'm sure he has played the game. He's the producer, who oversees all the departments and such. I'm sure he's checked their work, which means actually playing the game. What explanation does he have for what I posted about the choice being ignored? Apparently he only reads what is right in front of him and doesn't expand his field of view of reading. Also note -I think his sole purpose is to be a troll -who else uses the X-Files Smoking man as their avatar but a troll?
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 23, 2018 6:14:45 GMT
In ME1, the player gets the option, choice, to recruit Garrus or not. If he isn't recruited in ME1, taken to Sur'Kesh, and Kirrahe happened to survive ME1, both know each other by name. How is that possible? Did Bioware ignore my choice? Yes. If they can ignore that choice, regardless of how insignificant, then they can ignore any choice they want. Let's not assume that this was definite Bio policy. They might have just forgotten that you could play ME1 without recruiting Garrus
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Post by Sifr on Jan 23, 2018 6:39:11 GMT
Only that it's what the #MeToo movement goes by in the 22nd Century. (Seriously Shepard, did you think HR wasn't noticing how often you hit on your co-workers?)
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Post by themikefest on Jan 23, 2018 6:39:14 GMT
If they forgot, then why wasn't it corrected? They've had all this time to correct the issue. Since it hasn't been fixed, then it was planned that way.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jan 23, 2018 7:37:39 GMT
In ME1, the player gets the option, choice, to recruit Garrus or not. If he isn't recruited in ME1, taken to Sur'Kesh, and Kirrahe happened to survive ME1, both know each other by name. How is that possible? Did Bioware ignore my choice? Yes. If they can ignore that choice, regardless of how insignificant, then they can ignore any choice they want. Garrus was the lead investigator over whether Saren was involved in the attack on Eden Prime, so one would imagine then that Garrus' name was included in some kind of STG dossier containing information related to Saren's recent activities. That could be how Kirrahe knew who Garrus was, even if the two had never met on Virmire. From the news broadcasts in ME2, it was public knowledge that Shepard rescued an STG team on Virmire. If Kirrahe's name had been reported as the leader of the rescued team, that could be one way that Garrus could have learned of it. Garrus was slightly obsessed with the Saren case, so even if he wasn't recruited in ME1, I can picture him as having followed Shepard's progress in tracking Saren down. Admittedly both of these are slight stretches to justify this oversight, as it does seem more likely that Bioware dropped the continuity ball in ME3. Things like this tend to happen in sequels when the worldstates begin to diverge too far from the baseline. DA has similar continuity snarls. For instance, if we kill Wynne in DAO, how do we then reconcile that in DAI, Cole references the events of the Asunder novel in which Wynne played a huge role? Even if we handwave another mage as taking her place in the novel, why would they recruit Wynne's son? It also doesn't explain why does Cole specifically alludes to Wynne saving Evangeline at the cost of her own life.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 23, 2018 8:26:11 GMT
If they forgot, then why wasn't it corrected? They've had all this time to correct the issue. Since it hasn't been fixed, then it was planned that way. You really think they'd bother to record alternate lines for that in a patch?
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