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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 16:54:55 GMT
Let's just say that's not a selling point. No one ever gets what they want The point is making me believe that this is what I want, so I can go out and buy it and after I've played it, to come out satisfied. If I am not satisfied with the product I received to begin with, I am less likely to continue investing money into it, which may have an impact on the production of future content for said product. Though that might be subset by the production costs of said extra contest, when juxtaposed by the fanbase that continues pumping money into the game. I am merely touching the subject superficially and without going too much into detail, but I think you understand why this doesn't coincide with the industry's coveted "recurring player spending" model. You may not agree with my approach to it, but most of the big publishers will. Games are mass produced by the studio, not customized to each customers exact specifications Exactly. You get a cookie-cutter experience for everyone But that is not always the case. Many companies recently have been consistently missing the target as of late and we are getting some very impressive flops. Chris Terio, for example, has consistently writen some of the most impressive turds of the past 5 years. Would you kindly stop cutting and quoting every line I type? Instead, just quote my entire post please?
The people who develop games see them as art, they can sell to people. They make the game and you either enjoy what they made, or you don't. The consumer, like you, sees these games as consumer products. If the customer isn't happy, the company won't be happy. I personally see a game I like, and will buy it and play it. Whether I enjoy it in another matter. If I don't, I just move on.
Custom made games specifically tailored to everyone's specific wants would make the game cost exponentially more. Gamers have voiced concerns that games cost too much money. So, in return, the game developers give them cookie cutter experiences. Besides, when it comes to making games, it's a "closed door" thing. Customers aren't involved with the development process in any way. They just see the game, and if they like it, they buy it. If they don't like it, they don't buy it. Now the developer may take feedback from the customer, but that feedback doesn't make up 50% of the development decisions, while the actual developer has the other 50%. It's more like your input is taken with a grain of salt.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 6, 2020 17:00:50 GMT
Off-topic: then don't buy promises but already fixed games. Absolutely. On-topic: what DLCs tell about the world is valid no matter if you bought them or not, they're no different to later standalone installments in the series. True, but you cannot take into account "eventual" reception, based on the game's end state, something like 2,5 years after release. To say that Battlefront 2 today is a good game, does not mean that the game wasn't heavily criticized on release and giving the company a free pass, for the utter disgrace the game was at launch.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 6, 2020 17:57:27 GMT
Would you kindly stop cutting and quoting every line I type? Instead, just quote my entire post please? No, since it is a very inefficient way to address specific points. Why? The people who develop games see them as art, they can sell to people May be true for the indie segment. To everyone else, it's a job that pays the rent and looks good in your resume. You are creating a product of mass consumption, no better than flipping burgers at McDonalds. They make the game and you either enjoy what they made, or you don't True. But ultimately irrelevant. If a company has an established fanbase, it is good business practice not to kill off that established fanbase. As evident by any company/franchise that tried to do that, it is effectively financial suicide. The consumer, like you, sees these games as consumer products Maybe. Some IP may have a more personal bond with a consumer than others. For whatever the reason. If the customer isn't happy, the company won't be happy. I personally see a game I like, and will buy it and play it. Whether I enjoy it in another matter. If I don't, I just move on. Well, people are different and react in different ways. I see a lot of people react to Bioware, for the past 3 years, the same way that people react to Lucas Films over the past 3 years and how Whovians are reacting now to the BBC etc. Not a good look. Custom made games specifically tailored to everyone's specific wants would make the game cost exponentially more I think we will be able, in the future, to create our own adventures through something like the AI Dungeon does. As soon as compute power allows you to execute the algorithm in your personal hardware. At some point the video game industry and similarly the movie industry will become obsolete, as you will feed the AI algorithm and it will churn out, through the game engine or doctored image, the product you wish to see. It will, eventually, be fueled by vast open source repositories, assets etc. But that will be about 20 years away from today, but perhaps in 10 years from now, you will subscribe to a game company and, through the assets they've created and their IPs, you'll be able to generate new games, through their proprietary AI game generator and cloud server infrastructure. This is all speculation, on my part, of course, but this is what I see becoming of video games and the industry, as the next level of game development, to cut on costs and crunch. So, in return, the game developers give them cookie cutter experiences. Besides, when it comes to making games, it's a "closed door" thing. Customers aren't involved with the development process in any way Patently false. Andromeda, for example, was made because the fanbase overwhelmingly rejected the idea of a prequel, which was what Bioware Montreal wanted to do, at the time. The fanbase gives feedback and the developer responds accordingly. It's a symbiosis. The more the fanbase engages with the IP and the developer, the more the next title is influenced by it. It doesn't mean the fanbase can't be wrong, or that the developer can't interpret that feedback wrong. Communication is important and the way that feedback is given is equally important. In the case of Andromeda, for example, it was not communicated very well from the fanbase that the intent to make a YA adventure, wasn't what we wanted. And by "we" I mean the fanbase that led ME3 to the sale of 6 million copies, unlike Andromeda's 2.5 million copies. They just see the game, and if they like it, they buy it. If they don't like it, they don't buy it. Where does the clientbase/fanbase fall within this category? It seems to imply that they are interchangeable or expendable, when it is patently proven otherwise. Now the developer may take feedback from the customer, but that feedback doesn't make up 50% of the development decisions, while the actual developer has the other 50%. I'd argue it is pretty much so. Maybe not 50/50, but the fanbase will give details to what they enjoyed and what they didn't, down to the minutia. It all depends on how well you give that feedback, for the dev to make something out of it. If you have no guidance, sure, then the dev will do whatever they want. It's more like your input is taken with a grain of salt You might be in for a surprise. Sure, there are devs that are left to their own doings by the fanbase, exactly because of how pleased they are by the dev's work, which, on occasion, leaves the dev with no guidance as to how to improve and how to develop certain ideas. Others may choose, not so wisely I would say, to antagonize their fans, for whatever reason. And these devs get antagonized back, by the fans. Or a dev can simply not engage anyone at all and do whatever they want, without responding to criticism, without even taking that criticism into account. Usually, devs don't do that, because that doesn't produce good results, makes the relationship between dev and userbase ephimeral, sporadic and inconsistent. Which tends to lead to alienation and abandonment.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 6, 2020 18:58:26 GMT
Yes and no about the cut. Why wouldn't any of the dlc matter? Because telling a dissatisfied customer to pay extra, to get the experience he wanted, with still no guarantee of whether that experience will, indeed, be to his liking, is more than just a questionable decision. Which is why I didn't follow DA2 past its release content. Pay extra what? Download time? The Extended Cut is free.
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Post by alanc9 on May 6, 2020 22:14:36 GMT
Was it always free for the console peasants? I can't renember when XBL went free.
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Post by themikefest on May 6, 2020 23:17:06 GMT
Yes the cut was free for console players just as it was free for pc peasants
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2020 1:04:28 GMT
Yes the cut was free for console players just as it was free for pc peasants It was, originally, free, but for a certain time, before EA making it free again a few years ago. For a long time, it was paid DLC. Again, having to raise hell on the community board to have the developer maybe address your problems with the game, is not something you should count on, nor should be required for your game to be palatable. Nor should you forced to buy DLC that makes sense of your plot (Leviathan) retroactively. It's like that Star Wars tweet about Exogol having slaves build the Star Destroyers, when nothing in the movie showed it to be so. You can say it, it can make sense, but it should have been in the core experience.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 7, 2020 11:55:17 GMT
I would like to get MEA 2. MEA was very average game, but there is potential in that universe as long it will be done properly and by the right people - and i like Ryders.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2020 13:05:03 GMT
I would like to get MEA 2. MEA was very average game, but there is potential in that universe as long it will be done properly and by the right people - and i like Ryders. As far as I know, they are going for Andromeda 2, but without Ryder.
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Post by alanc9 on May 7, 2020 16:13:08 GMT
Again, having to raise hell on the community board to have the developer maybe address your problems with the game, is not something you should count on, nor should be required for your game to be palatable. Nor should you forced to buy DLC that makes sense of your plot (Leviathan) retroactively. It's like that Star Wars tweet about Exogol having slaves build the Star Destroyers, when nothing in the movie showed it to be so. You can say it, it can make sense, but it should have been in the core experience. I'm not sure how to operationalize this principle.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2020 16:19:26 GMT
I'm not sure how to operationalize this principle. It's easy; support games that are good on release, don't further support games that were bad on release, with a unconditional promises that something may prove to be worthwhile in the future. The point is to get a full experience on launch, not an experience that makes sense, after you wasted another $60 on it, in addition to the game's original price. That's the TRoS business model.
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Post by alanc9 on May 7, 2020 16:33:51 GMT
Having already paid for ME3, you won't accept new content for it on principle? That seems stupid and self-defeating.
But I was actually talking about the companies. Should Bio have not made Leviathan?
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2020 16:56:49 GMT
Having already paid for ME3, you won't accept new content for it on principle? That seems stupid and self-defeating. Not supporting games you don't like is a very good principle. It prevents incomplete messes from being developed and considered industry standard. That's how you get games like Andromeda and Anthem. Regardless of whether you personally liked these games or not, they were both Early Access state upon their respective releases and companies should not be rewarded for releasing unfinished products for full price, with the expectation of the developer maybe, at some point in the future, will eventually fix it. But I was actually talking about the companies. Should Bio have not made Leviathan? No. Not in the form it was made. Not as a patch to justify Mac Walter's plot holes and fanfiction. That is not proper storytelling, this is basic lore that should, at the very least, be explained in the starting codex.
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Post by cloud9 on May 8, 2020 15:18:20 GMT
Having already paid for ME3, you won't accept new content for it on principle? That seems stupid and self-defeating. Not supporting games you don't like is a very good principle. It prevents incomplete messes from being developed and considered industry standard. That's how you get games like Andromeda and Anthem. Regardless of whether you personally liked these games or not, they were both Early Access state upon their respective releases and companies should not be rewarded for releasing unfinished products for full price, with the expectation of the developer maybe, at some point in the future, will eventually fix it. But I was actually talking about the companies. Should Bio have not made Leviathan? No. Not in the form it was made. Not as a patch to justify Mac Walter's plot holes and fanfiction. That is not proper storytelling, this is basic lore that should, at the very least, be explained in the starting codex. Agreed.
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Post by Tonymac on May 8, 2020 16:03:36 GMT
Yes, it did. My most generous estimates put Andromeda topping at out $68 million US, with a 100 million CAD budget. In the timeframe EA wanted, Andromeda came up short by ~$7 million US. As I've said, maybe it made that amount up in the next week, for all I know, but by EA's wanted deadline, they came up short. It's not a huge loss, but it is a loss. Anthem, though, did break even, thanks to strong digital sales, so maybe that time they saved by ditching Andromeda and focusing on Anthem actually did help. Not in a way that is meaningful to us, but to Bioware it must have. That is what one would logically expect from a healthy, thriving franchise. But ME isn't one of those. EA would be right to expect that, if the dev did their job competently. EA isn't selling any of those. They never have, to my knowledge and since they are anti-competitive, they seem eager to hoard IPs, even if they aren't actively using them. Yes... I'm going to take the estimates of someone who is extremely biased in this instance and not the word of a company that could be taken to the cleaners for lying to their investors... Then why did their stock prices tank?
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Post by N7Pathfinder on May 8, 2020 16:52:39 GMT
Fyi guys, Michael Gamble posted this on march
Our teams drive innovation using cutting-edge tech and tools such as the Frostbite engine and collaborate with thousands of world-class developers across EA’s network of studios.
On the article it says frostbite as the engine, so the next ME might possibly have this one.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 8, 2020 22:04:16 GMT
That's not much of a surprise. I don't see Bioware dumping Frostbite anytime soon, after basically burning 3 games to get it to work as they wanted.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on May 9, 2020 11:12:48 GMT
I would like to get MEA 2. MEA was very average game, but there is potential in that universe as long it will be done properly and by the right people - and i like Ryders. As far as I know, they are going for Andromeda 2, but without Ryder. That's not good. What's the point to go back to Andromeda without explaining so many unfinished plots from MEA: Angarian AI, mysterious benefactor etc ?
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Post by N7Pathfinder on May 9, 2020 12:03:28 GMT
As far as I know, they are going for Andromeda 2, but without Ryder. That's not good. What's the point to go back to Andromeda without explaining so many unfinished plots from MEA: Angarian AI, mysterious benefactor etc ? And the cure for ellen.
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Post by jclosed on May 9, 2020 12:15:15 GMT
As far as I know, they are going for Andromeda 2, but without Ryder. That's not good. What's the point to go back to Andromeda without explaining so many unfinished plots from MEA: Angarian AI, mysterious benefactor etc ? Indeed - In stead of a stupid remaster of an old series that is good enough as it is now, they should make the dropped add-on stuff for MEA. I certainly not going to buy that old ME-Trilogy stuff again, even if they polish it enough to blind other fools. I already payed for it, played it until I could not bare it any longer, and not even any super HD resolution sparkling wonders will let me buy that old stuff again.
Give me the cutted-off stuff from MEA. That story is only half-way told, and is murdered before it could mature. I gladly pay to see the rest of the Ryder story. A new MEA without the Ryders? Mehh.. Who wants to buy a new story if the old one is not even finished? Maybe if the story is about (and in) the lost ark and a reunion with the Ryders is the goal I have some interest - Maybe. Otherwise my interest is already decreased with 75%. To be honest - Nowadays I am far more exited for the next entries in "The Legend of Heroes" series from Nihom Falcom than anything from the Bioware stable. Their world building and story telling is still growing (and was already very strong to begin with), while that of Bioware has become crashing down or, in the case of MEA, is simply amputated.
Sorry to be so negative, but the news of a cheap and easy cash grab of an ME remaster does not sit well with me...
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Post by Buckeldemon on May 9, 2020 12:31:41 GMT
Don't get worked up, folks. sirpetrakus said something, yes. Claims he has an insider, as I recall. Thing is, we have no way to verify this anyway, even if the insider is genuine. The only thing these claims do is adding more fuel to the speculation.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 9, 2020 13:37:26 GMT
That's not good. What's the point to go back to Andromeda without explaining so many unfinished plots from MEA: Angarian AI, mysterious benefactor etc ? Probably to garner a better reaction than last time. Ryder got a lot of flack, the squad got a lot of flack. Maybe Bioware wants to change that perception, by writing them up in a side-quel. If I wanted to not scrap the entire Ryder plotline, that's how I'd go about it. That way, even if the new crew fails, again, to capture the audience, you can fall back on Ryder and if they become well received, you have them to fall back on, if a return to Ryder doesn't go well. Contingency plans; they're nice to have.
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Post by cloud9 on May 9, 2020 20:29:57 GMT
Fyi guys, Michael Gamble posted this on march Our teams drive innovation using cutting-edge tech and tools such as the Frostbite engine and collaborate with thousands of world-class developers across EA’s network of studios. On the article it says frostbite as the engine, so the next ME might possibly have this one. 😤😤😤😤
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 10, 2020 16:17:54 GMT
Whatever they do, I hope they stay within the Andromeda galaxy.
It's too rich a setting to just dump away after one game. I would agree that the framing could do with some change, perhaps in regards to the protagonists and the institution for which they fight for: Mass Effect 5 is probably a good moment for a "Firefly" or "Farscape" type of story... specially since it's based on both !
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Post by smilesja on May 10, 2020 17:24:15 GMT
Don't get worked up, folks. sirpetrakus said something, yes. Claims he has an insider, as I recall. Thing is, we have no way to verify this anyway, even if the insider is genuine. The only thing these claims do is adding more fuel to the speculation. Best to assume that the unverified information presented to us is:
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