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Post by The Elder King on Jun 11, 2020 1:30:30 GMT
I certainly hope that Anthem's problems and negative reception, coupled with The Fallen Order's success, could lead EA to give less contrictions on Bioware in regards of their online elements.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2020 1:58:20 GMT
I certainly hope that Anthem's problems and negative reception, coupled with The Fallen Order's success, could lead EA to give less contrictions on Bioware in regards of their online elements. I get the feeling Fallen Order's 'success' is relative though.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 11, 2020 2:05:36 GMT
I certainly hope that Anthem's problems and negative reception, coupled with The Fallen Order's success, could lead EA to give less contrictions on Bioware in regards of their online elements. I get the feeling Fallen Order's 'success' is relative though. True. JFO was very well received, and it sold ~4m 10m copies.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 11, 2020 2:32:37 GMT
I certainly hope that Anthem's problems and negative reception, coupled with The Fallen Order's success, could lead EA to give less contrictions on Bioware in regards of their online elements. I get the feeling Fallen Order's 'success' is relative though. It still turned out to be better then Anthem, sales wise. There are other examples in the industry of really successful games, both commercially and critically, that have a focus on single player, or even lacks multiplayer, in recent years. God of War and Horizon:Zero Dawn, for example. If EA wants DA4 to be successful, I do think that a focus on SP, or in any case, the same situation of ME3, DAI, is needed.
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Post by Frost on Jun 11, 2020 4:18:24 GMT
I get the feeling Fallen Order's 'success' is relative though. True. JFO was very well received, but it sold ~4m copies. Which tbf is solid, and enough to warrant a sequel, but not exactly lighting the sales charts on fire. Where did you see 4m copies for JFO? I thought it was much higher than that (~10 million).
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2020 4:19:01 GMT
I get the feeling Fallen Order's 'success' is relative though. True. JFO was very well received, but it sold ~4m copies. Which tbf is solid, and enough to warrant a sequel, but not exactly lighting the sales charts on fire. Plus it is specifically not a live service game...its DLC seems pretty gimmicky. And while this next part comes entirely down to personal taste it just does not look that appealing to me and I've heard enough to suspect that it is getting overinflated only because its a Single Player game.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 11, 2020 4:25:07 GMT
True. JFO was very well received, but it sold ~4m copies. Which tbf is solid, and enough to warrant a sequel, but not exactly lighting the sales charts on fire. Where did you see 4m copies for JFO? I thought it was much higher than that (~10 million). You're right - it is 10m, I must have been thinking of something else...
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2020 8:37:07 GMT
So...something else I have been kind of musing about. I do think some kind of 'side quest' system like the one from FO NV or even, to a certain extent, FO 4 could really work. Just maybe flesh it out a little better. Origins and Inquisition essentially had side quests tied to their region, though a few were multiple regions...I think for DA 4 it would be really nice if the side quests were more or less by the organization or institution. We'll have several different potential ones to choose from. Inquisition, Tevinter, Qunari, Tal-vashoth, the various factions of Elves, probably more. Now I do not think DA 4 will have a similar ending to New Vegas where you have to choose which faction is dominant...but this could make some excellent fodder for at least the side quests.
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Post by Frost on Jun 11, 2020 13:44:13 GMT
From the description of Joplin vs Morrison the single-player focus and emphasis on reactivity of Joplin sound great. Systemic narrative mechanics do not sound good to me. Writing is one of the strengths of Bioware games, and automating that may not produce great results.
While heists could be fun, I prefer a larger story continuing the Solas plot, so hopefully that is one benefit of the change to Morrison. Not looking forward to the multiplayer and the live service elements, though.
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Post by Norstaera on Jun 11, 2020 14:04:13 GMT
I had another idea about how the game could start. (My previous idea involved using certain decisions from the Keep to possibly give you a different starting location). Anyway... Picture the Marketplace in Denerim (for illustration purposes only, of course, since we are all familiar with it). Approaching the Chantry is some sort of procession. Could be funeral, wedding, festival related, whatever. Different merchants are selling their wares to various people, among them a noble with slave/servant, a slave/servant on their own, a traveler, etc. Replace Arl Eamon's estate with a dwarven embassy. The courtyard would actually be roofed so that those within the embassy could briefly step out to greet special visitors w/o much threat to their stone sense. The bigwigs wouldn't risk it, of course, but servants and minor functionaries could. A small delegation approaches. They might be just a typical group from Tevinter or another embassy. Maybe Grey Wardens from Weisshaupt. Or, just for the fun of it, a group of dwarves and among them is a delegate from Kal-Sharok. Whatever. You have various guards here and there, maybe an off-duty soldier or two. Some patrons are outside the tavern. A couple of characters meet and quietly step into an alley. Could be spies, could be crooks, could be secret lovers. Whatever they are, there is a secretive or decidedly discreet air about their encounter. There are the odd individuals about: a beggar, a gossip or two, maybe even a pickpocket. Instead of the Alienage, that section leads to warehouses or the docks and you can see some of the activity in the distance, depending on your vantage point within the Marketplace.
This is where the game starts after you create your character.
In the CC you choose your race, gender, and class. You also choose your background - like Origins your options are determined by race and class. Choose default start or import from the Keep. When you exit the CC to start the game, you are in the Marketplace and in one of the scenarios listed above. An elf could be an agent of the Inquisition/Solas/something else meeting near the alley. Or a crook. He/she could be a servant/slave in the Marketplace on the customer side or the merchant's side of the counter. Maybe a dock or warehouse worker. A human could be in the Chantry procession as a family member, or even part of the Chantry. Lay sister/brother, maybe even a priest. Maybe they are approaching the dwarven embassy or they could be exiting the tavern. They could be one of alley characters. They could be working the docks/warehouses. They could be a guard/soldier. A dwarf could be the minor functionary stepping into the courtyard. They are the seventh cousin to the ambassador's great-aunt's husband's brother. A dwarf can also be a merchant's assistant or an alley character (Carta). I'm not sure what a Qunari would be, maybe a slave? At the docks/warehouse? Possibly a prisoner - though whether on purpose or not remains to be seen.
Whatever you choose, the other actions still play out. If you're the dwarven minor noble you can see the merchants and customers. You can also see the Chantry procession. If human and in the procession, you might see the merchant area and the alley meeting. If you are at the docks/warehouse, you won't see much - just the Marketplace in the distance. Everybody can see guards here and there. You get the idea, your view of events depends on where you start.
You get a short interval to begin character development. You might even step into the dwarven embassy, the Chantry, or the tavern. Discuss one or two topics of the day, and then get to the common event to begin the game. As you progress, you could end up interacting with some of the characters in the other scenarios. If you talk to somebody from the Chantry procession, for instance, that interaction will be different if you started out elsewhere.
Just a thought, or six.
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 19, 2020 17:07:14 GMT
If EA wants DA4 to be successful, I do think that a focus on SP, or in any case, the same situation of ME3, DAI, is needed. Balance will win the day. A good multiplayer to keep the business flowing with a solid single player experience to keep the loyal fanbase attached seems like the way to go. Despite what some people might've thought of ME3, it did end up accomplishing balance in regards to its single player and multiplayer experiences. None were lackluster because of the other.
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Post by Frost on Jun 19, 2020 23:29:18 GMT
If EA wants DA4 to be successful, I do think that a focus on SP, or in any case, the same situation of ME3, DAI, is needed. Balance will win the day. A good multiplayer to keep the business flowing with a solid single player experience to keep the loyal fanbase attached seems like the way to go. Despite what some people might've thought of ME3, it did end up accomplishing balance in regards to its single player and multiplayer experiences. None were lackluster because of the other. Balance in ME3? ME3 where after 3 games of playing the same pc the thing that determined if the pc lived or died was if you played multiplayer or not!!! It is because of ME3 that I started hating having multiplayer in Bioware games. If I could have only 1 wish granted for DA4, I would wish it had no multiplayer at all (although I know I am not going to get that wish).
With multiplayer in there, there will always be the temptation for the developers to mix the two. Multiplayer is like red lyrium infecting the single player part of the game.
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 19, 2020 23:37:48 GMT
Balance in ME3? ME3 where after 3 games of playing the same pc the thing that determined if the pc lived or died was if you played multiplayer or not!!! It is because of ME3 that I started hating having multiplayer in Bioware games. If I could have only 1 wish granted for DA4, I would wish it had no multiplayer at all (although I know I am not going to get that wish).
With multiplayer in there, there will always be the temptation for the developers to mix the two. Multiplayer is like red lyrium infecting the single player part of the game.
Two things: First: Shepard is dead. Acabado. Muerto. Gone. Corpse. Finito. I question the decision of whoever the EA klutz was that decided to include that cinematic where Shepard's body "shook". It's a meaningless thing however, now that it bears no relevance in the story. Shepard is dead. Second: The whole thing cannot infect the development if you strategize which studio takes the single player and which one takes the multiplayer, precisely like they did with Mass Effect 3 when Edmonton took the single player and Montreal took the multiplayer. Absolutely no part of Mass Effect 3 was affected from that division and it was sound business to keep more casual players involved in the game. Multiplayer is nothing to be afraid about if the development plan is properly done.
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Post by Frost on Jun 20, 2020 0:16:22 GMT
Balance in ME3? ME3 where after 3 games of playing the same pc the thing that determined if the pc lived or died was if you played multiplayer or not!!! It is because of ME3 that I started hating having multiplayer in Bioware games. If I could have only 1 wish granted for DA4, I would wish it had no multiplayer at all (although I know I am not going to get that wish).
With multiplayer in there, there will always be the temptation for the developers to mix the two. Multiplayer is like red lyrium infecting the single player part of the game.
Two things: First: Shepard is dead. Acabado. Muerto. Gone. Corpse. Finito. I question the decision of whoever the EA klutz was that decided to include that cinematic where Shepard's body "shook". It's a meaningless thing however, now that it bears no relevance in the story. Shepard is dead. Second: The whole thing cannot infect the development if you strategize which studio takes the single player and which one takes the multiplayer, precisely like they did with Mass Effect 3 when Edmonton took the single player and Montreal took the multiplayer. Absolutely no part of Mass Effect 3 was affected from that division and it was sound business to keep more casual players involved in the game. Multiplayer is nothing to be afraid about if the development plan is properly done. The Galaxy at War/EMS system was multiplayer affecting and infecting single player in Mass Effect 3.
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Highwayman667
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 20, 2020 1:29:31 GMT
The Galaxy at War/EMS system was multiplayer affecting and infecting single player in Mass Effect 3.
Infecting... seriously ? I can play Mass Effect 3 right now and get the ending I want. No multiplayer affects that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2020 1:41:46 GMT
The Galaxy at War/EMS system was multiplayer affecting and infecting single player in Mass Effect 3.
Infecting... seriously ? I can play Mass Effect 3 right now and get the ending I want. No multiplayer affects that. To be fair, that's because they patched it early after release. Before the patch, you could get the three endings but you could only get the Shepard Breath Scene if you did Multiplayer.
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Post by Frost on Jun 20, 2020 2:10:07 GMT
Infecting... seriously ? I can play Mass Effect 3 right now and get the ending I want. No multiplayer affects that. To be fair, that's because they patched it early after release. Before the patch, you could get the three endings but you could only get the Shepard Breath Scene if you did Multiplayer. Exactly. I bought ME3 at launch and played it twice, both before the patch. At the time they were being supershady about it, and it wasn't clear to me that they were going to patch it.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jun 20, 2020 18:36:58 GMT
The presence of multiplayer is somewhat justified in Mass Effect because the game's play like fun shooters.
Multiplayer has never felt appropriate in Dragon Age. The red lyrium comparison is apt.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 21, 2020 9:41:11 GMT
I did enjoy the MP in DA:I for a while, I think it's main problem was the unlimited promotions, it made the game too unbalanced & brought disparity between players. I wouldn't mind it coming back, but being refined, hard cap promotions, better gear acquisition & keeping it separate from SP
Just my opinioin
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jun 21, 2020 15:20:28 GMT
I did enjoy the MP in DA:I for a while, I think it's main problem was the unlimited promotions, it made the game too unbalanced & brought disparity between players. I wouldn't mind it coming back, but being refined, hard cap promotions, better gear acquisition & keeping it separate from SP Just my opinioin Having worked on MP post-launch on DAI (I did mostly abilities and merc work for gameplay for vanilla) I can say I agree with this fairly strongly. The gameplay was acceptable for what it was supposed to be, it was the meta stuff that needed to be redone. It fell in to a lot of trappings that modern games have mostly ironed out (useful progression, not aggressively segmenting the audience, reliance on loot boxing...etc.). For those that have played it, I think what DAIMP needed to be was more like Vermintide2: a very tight coop loop with loot progression that ramps slowly.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 22, 2020 9:25:38 GMT
I did enjoy the MP in DA:I for a while, I think it's main problem was the unlimited promotions, it made the game too unbalanced & brought disparity between players. I wouldn't mind it coming back, but being refined, hard cap promotions, better gear acquisition & keeping it separate from SP Just my opinioin Having worked on MP post-launch on DAI (I did mostly abilities and merc work for gameplay for vanilla) I can say I agree with this fairly strongly. The gameplay was acceptable for what it was supposed to be, it was the meta stuff that needed to be redone. It fell in to a lot of trappings that modern games have mostly ironed out (useful progression, not aggressively segmenting the audience, reliance on loot boxing...etc.). For those that have played it, I think what DAIMP needed to be was more like Vermintide2: a very tight coop loop with loot progression that ramps slowly. I think you did a great job with the balances changes & things you brought to DAIMP, added a lot more life to the game I've not played Vermintide 2, but have seen a few vids online & I think that would be a great way to tackle the issue.
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Post by Felya87 on Jun 22, 2020 9:32:20 GMT
I just want MP to be its own game. No connection at all with SP. No being forced to play something I hate (MP) and pay for it (PSplus) for stuff in my single player experience. I still haven't the dragon stuff for DAI because I refuse to both play MP, and pay more for it! I would have preferred paying a dlc than having MP forced down my throat!
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 23, 2020 1:13:15 GMT
I just want MP to be its own game. No connection at all with SP. No being forced to play something I hate (MP) and pay for it (PSplus) for stuff in my single player experience. I still haven't the dragon stuff for DAI because I refuse to both play MP, and pay more for it! I would have preferred paying a dlc than having MP forced down my throat! The Edmonton / Montreal collaboration did good for ME3. No studio stepped on each other's toes and it allowed the publisher to deliver "two games for the price of one", which is sometimes more feasible than producing two games for two different experiences. I think we just need to be more keen and observe what type of plan or strategy Bioware has with future games. I'd be skeptical as well if a single studio handled the single player and multiplayer aspect. Both should be divided, like they did with ME3.
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Post by Felya87 on Jun 23, 2020 6:25:27 GMT
I just want MP to be its own game. No connection at all with SP. No being forced to play something I hate (MP) and pay for it (PSplus) for stuff in my single player experience. I still haven't the dragon stuff for DAI because I refuse to both play MP, and pay more for it! I would have preferred paying a dlc than having MP forced down my throat! The Edmonton / Montreal collaboration did good for ME3. No studio stepped on each other's toes and it allowed the publisher to deliver "two games for the price of one", which is sometimes more feasible than producing two games for two different experiences. I think we just need to be more keen and observe what type of plan or strategy Bioware has with future games. I'd be skeptical as well if a single studio handled the single player and multiplayer aspect. Both should be divided, like they did with ME3. Mass Effect 3 was worse. It locked away the higher resorce-obtenible ending behind the MP game! So story stuff! And as unsatysfing were all the endings (for me, both pre and after enchanted edition, I stopped playing the entire priority eart mission in my subsequent run for how bad it is) it was a slap in the face. MP should not. Touch. SP. At all. Dragon Age MP was perfect, completely its own thing, and I could just ignore it happily, until it was decided to lock up single player stuff in the MP! Many games have MP, but are completely their own thing: like Uncharted, The Last of Us, Digimon... Yet the ME and DA teams had to force their players toward MP. Sorry, I don't condone that.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 724
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Jun 22, 2021 18:16:33 GMT
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Highwayman667
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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May 10, 2020 13:11:01 GMT
May 2020
highwayman667
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on Jun 23, 2020 13:14:11 GMT
Mass Effect 3 was worse. It locked away the higher resorce-obtenible ending behind the MP game! So story stuff! And as unsatysfing were all the endings (for me, both pre and after enchanted edition, I stopped playing the entire priority eart mission in my subsequent run for how bad it is) it was a slap in the face. MP should not. Touch. SP. At all. Dragon Age MP was perfect, completely its own thing, and I could just ignore it happily, until it was decided to lock up single player stuff in the MP! Many games have MP, but are completely their own thing: like Uncharted, The Last of Us, Digimon... Yet the ME and DA teams had to force their players toward MP. Sorry, I don't condone that. Those are very controversial waters to dive into. Anyone here could substantively argue Destroy is not the best ending. As far as I'm concerned, the MP didn't touch the SP. Whatever flaws ME3 had were actually related to a diminished timetable, but it wasn't like the Edmonton developers' work was interfered in any way by the people working at Montreal. The model does work and it should be improved upon. Publishers are not going to invest in two games when they can simply do so in one.
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