inherit
3439
0
Sept 16, 2024 15:46:24 GMT
9,324
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,875
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Aug 17, 2019 2:50:00 GMT
It's a workable strategy if you can pull it off. I can't fool myself enough; it just feels like an interface fail.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Aug 17, 2019 7:12:56 GMT
I do have a lot of experience assuming people are twats : P
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Aug 18, 2019 1:31:54 GMT
So joining the fray, probably a reiteration but after playing Fall Out New Vegas please, please don't go back to a voiceless protagonist. So immersion breaking. So frustrating.
But it has got me wondering about if BioWare can tie attributes into certain dialogue choices again. If we get atributes. Like if we have a system where we can have the 2-4 personality/ tone choices and then a seperate section off to the side for the investigate and a seperate section for any special dialogue. Doesen't have to be often but could be cool. Also a seperate choice wheel.
|
|
Doominike
N2
Vehnan'abelasan
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
XBL Gamertag: MugiwaraBlair
PSN: MugiwaraBlair
Posts: 214 Likes: 243
inherit
7339
0
243
Doominike
Vehnan'abelasan
214
April 2017
doominike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
MugiwaraBlair
MugiwaraBlair
|
Post by Doominike on Aug 18, 2019 1:52:03 GMT
I agree with the 2nd part, basically FO3 style speech checks, with shown requirements, like "You better back off (intimidate: STR 30)". Also preferably no chance based ones, cause it's bullshit if you invested into a certain attribute and you can still fail checks because the game randomly fucks you over, and also chance based checks basically means 100% success rate if you save-scum enough regardless of stat investment.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Aug 19, 2019 22:14:44 GMT
As an addeundum to my earlier post on the subject...attribute or circumstance or skill based speech options as a part of the dialogue wheel...great, fantastic. But do not...do NOT...make them neccessary to complete a quest or quest objectives. They should be optional. They should open up interesting new conversations, they can make a quest easier, or open up a different way of doing a quest. But the quest itself should be completable without having to invest points in a certain build. A RPG should never punish the player, in that way, for wanting to have a different build or potentially locking classes out of content.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,699
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Aug 20, 2019 2:55:40 GMT
As an addeundum to my earlier post on the subject...attribute or circumstance or skill based speech options as a part of the dialogue wheel...great, fantastic. But do not...do NOT...make them neccessary to complete a quest or quest objectives. They should be optional. They should open up interesting new conversations, they can make a quest easier, or open up a different way of doing a quest. But the quest itself should be completable without having to invest points in a certain build. A RPG should never punish the player, in that way, for wanting to have a different build or potentially locking classes out of content. Hard disagree. Punishing content locks give me mysteries to reveal in my next playthrough. I enjoyed the Origins model of “here are some social skills, but you have to give up some combat skills to max them out early.” It was a clear way to show what my character values. Are they going to rely on their silver tongue to the point that real combat has them scrambling for the exit? Will they have a belt full of traps but no diplomacy in delicate political negotiations? I want to sometimes feel shitty about my build. I live for that moment in text adventures where it says “ you wonder if you should have prepared differently... but it’s too late now.” Hell, I wouldn’t mind if certain builds can’t survive to the end as long as I get a fun achievement to commemorate my character’s doomed journey. Make me lose. Punish my skill choices. Fill the game with dead ends. But make those dead ends entertaining, even essential for a complete set of trophies.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
30,160
gervaise21
12,742
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 23, 2019 9:51:00 GMT
Hell, I wouldn’t mind if certain builds can’t survive to the end as long as I get a fun achievement to commemorate my character’s doomed journey. Make me lose. Punish my skill choices. Fill the game with dead ends. But make those dead ends entertaining, even essential for a complete set of trophies. I think that might be taking it too extreme. It is somewhat frustrating to discover after several days and hours of play that you should have chosen differently on a War Table mission for your clan to survive. To invest the same amount of time to discover your PC is automatically doomed might actually make me refuse to play the game again. However, there is nothing wrong in making your build choices affect the ability of your entire party to survive to the end. So some sort of variant on the ME2 suicide mission. So may be to get through a section of the game you need at least one person from each class present. If you are the class necessary to, say, disarm a load of traps, and you have not maximise your skill in this area, then someone will die as a result, just not the PC unless like ME2 the sequence comes at the very end of the game. One of the things I found so satisfying about the Suicide Mission was it required me to have made all the relevant upgrades to my base, have performed missions in a timely fashion and choose the right people to perform the various tasks for the entire crew to survive. When they did without me having any meta-knowledge about which were the best choices, I personally found that very rewarding.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,699
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Aug 23, 2019 12:12:46 GMT
Hell, I wouldn’t mind if certain builds can’t survive to the end as long as I get a fun achievement to commemorate my character’s doomed journey. Make me lose. Punish my skill choices. Fill the game with dead ends. But make those dead ends entertaining, even essential for a complete set of trophies. I think that might be taking it too extreme. It is somewhat frustrating to discover after several days and hours of play that you should have chosen differently on a War Table mission for your clan to survive. To invest the same amount of time to discover your PC is automatically doomed might actually make me refuse to play the game again. However, there is nothing wrong in making your build choices affect the ability of your entire party to survive to the end. So some sort of variant on the ME2 suicide mission. So may be to get through a section of the game you need at least one person from each class present. If you are the class necessary to, say, disarm a load of traps, and you have not maximise your skill in this area, then someone will die as a result, just not the PC unless like ME2 the sequence comes at the very end of the game. One of the things I found so satisfying about the Suicide Mission was it required me to have made all the relevant upgrades to my base, have performed missions in a timely fashion and choose the right people to perform the various tasks for the entire crew to survive. When they did without me having any meta-knowledge about which were the best choices, I personally found that very rewarding. Achievements and unique scenes tip the scale, at least for me. If I lose a game and get nothing for it, yeah, that’s frustrating. I’d feel like I wasted a bunch of time. However... if losing was the only way to see some of the content, then I can tell myself “I didn’t waste time, I invested it in completionism.” Text adventures do this really well, IMO. There are usually lots of ways to die (including dead-man-walking scenarios where you’re doomed for a long time), but the deaths are very unique, and sometimes marked by fun achievements. So you want to explore them anyway. The main reason I want to see more death scenes in Dragon Age is less about builds and more about branching. Players like to say “I wish I could have chosen <dramatic action xyz>” for certain main plotline choices, e.g. refusing the Inquisition. If dead ends become normalized, then dramatic choices can be offered as an option... with the not-Inquisitor quickly falling to the angry mob outside. It would also add real weight to auto-picking The Most Heroic Option in every conversation, because there would be a nonzero chance that the player will be punished for picking it. A good example is templars vs. mages at the end of DA2. There are no stakes to that choice - people playing good Hawkes pick mages, and people playing evil/power-hungry Hawkes pick templars. Even if the fights had been different, players enjoy fighting so neither option would be a real blow. But if picking mages had a higher chance (not a random chance, but based on previous choices) of ending Hawke’s journey for good, then the player has the same safety concerns as Hawke would have in-universe.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
30,160
gervaise21
12,742
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 23, 2019 17:39:11 GMT
A good example is templars vs. mages at the end of DA2. There are no stakes to that choice - people playing good Hawkes pick mages, and people playing evil/power-hungry Hawkes pick templars. I'd disagree that good Hawkes always side with the mages and evil/power hungry Hawkes with the Templars. After all, it is Varric who declares that if you choose the Templars we are "fighting for our way of life", whilst if you choose the mages he states he is unhappy with "letting dangerous people run amok". So if good guy Varric sees nothing wrong with siding with the Templars and in fact seem more in favour of that choice, why can't a "good" Hawke? The problem with the choices at the end of DA2 is that they simply played out in reverse, so essentially there was no difference between them. Also, originally the choice you made probably did have an effect on what happened to you in the expansion that was cancelled. I dare say life would have been far harder for a Hawke who sided with the mages than one who went with the Templars if Kirkwall was the target of an Exalted March. The choice of whether or not you executed Anders probably also had an effect because that directly impacted on whether Sebastian continued to support you or not. Sadly, now we shall never know.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,699
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Aug 23, 2019 18:24:14 GMT
A good example is templars vs. mages at the end of DA2. There are no stakes to that choice - people playing good Hawkes pick mages, and people playing evil/power-hungry Hawkes pick templars. I'd disagree that good Hawkes always side with the mages and evil/power hungry Hawkes with the Templars. After all, it is Varric who declares that if you choose the Templars we are "fighting for our way of life", whilst if you choose the mages he states he is unhappy with "letting dangerous people run amok". So if good guy Varric sees nothing wrong with siding with the Templars and in fact seem more in favour of that choice, why can't a "good" Hawke? Depends on one’s definition of good I suppose. I’ve had Hawkes that side with the templars, but never out of heroism. “Order” is neutral at best, and frequently openly violent (but violent in a way that’s considered socially acceptable, therefore making it seem ok). Not an ideal worth fighting for, IMO. Varric prefers it because he’s a businessman. He’s created a life on the current order, and benefits from things continuing uninterrupted. Agree that this would have perhaps factored into Exalted March, making Hawke’s choice to side with mages a little more personally dangerous.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
30,160
gervaise21
12,742
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 24, 2019 8:36:32 GMT
Depends on one’s definition of good I suppose. I’ve had Hawkes that side with the templars, but never out of heroism That is slightly different. Taking the side of the Circle mages because of the injustice of blaming them for the actions of Anders and the other rebels on the outside of the Gallows is an act of selfless heroism, which is the line most of my Hawkes took and why they looked askance at Varric when he made his comment about "dangerous people". However, leaving aside Meredith's insanity, it had been made clear to us that Kirkwall was under threat from rogue mages throughout the game but definitely in Act 3. Go out at night and we are attacked by blood mage controlled thralls. Meet up with Sister Nightingale and again we are attacked by mages that are rumoured to be sponsored by Tevinter. She then states emphatically that "If Kirkwall falls, none of us are safe." If you kicked out Anders from your party back in Act 2, because you aren't allowed to turn him in and you are appalled by how Justice appears to be controlling him, then you have no idea that he appeared to be acting entirely alone. So from that perspective it was possible for a morally upright Hawke to side with the Templars. It just depends on how you have role played them up to then. The whole point of the choices in Dragon Age is that there frequently is no definite "good" or "evil" choice, despite the fact that many people like to view it that way if wanting to play an evil psychopath. At least that was the case in DAO but I have to admit that subsequently there has been a tendency of the writers to favour one route over another as the "right" choice to make. For example, in DAI if you conscript the mages, dialogue makes it seem like everyone thinks you favour putting the mages back in the Circle (which I was not), whereas to my mind it was the sensible thing to do considering Fiona's previous decisions as their leader and the fact that there were likely Venetori among them (keep your friends close and your enemies closer), and War Table missions showed it did allow us to weed out the bad influences. This in fact to me seemed like putting them on probation to show they could be trusted, yet that was the dialogue option I was given when people criticised me for allying with them. It also increased the chances of getting Vivienne as Divine. However, the writers seemed to recognise this because at the end of Trespasser, the Bright Hand mages who had been part of the Inquisition seemed the most confident independent group of mages capable of standing up to Vivienne and her loyalists.
|
|
mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 12,116 Likes: 30,354
inherit
ღ The Untitled
72
0
1
Jan 31, 2024 11:38:50 GMT
30,354
mousestalker
Just here for the cosplay
12,116
August 2016
mousestalker
Mousestalker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by mousestalker on Aug 24, 2019 11:06:35 GMT
This:
|
|
inherit
Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,922
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
|
Post by vertigomez on Aug 26, 2019 15:58:13 GMT
This: No lie, I'm from Texas and occasionally my American-accented characters (dwarves and qunari) get a little twangier in my head than they are in the game.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 1, 2019 1:18:32 GMT
So in addition to my desire to have companions actually feel more *there* in combat...
In DA 4 BioWare should focus on more combat barks. I hardly recall them happening in the previous games that often but it would be really nice to hear more things like 'the enemy's over there' or 'your character...watch out!' as you get hit by a space rock.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,454
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,650
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Sept 1, 2019 1:29:40 GMT
So in addition to my desire to have companions actually feel more *there* in combat... In DA 4 BioWare should focus on more combat barks. I hardly recall them happening in the previous games that often but it would be really nice to hear more things like 'the enemy's over there' or 'your character...watch out!' as you get hit by a space rock. They seem to be happening constantly in this battle with the Descent Guardian. Inky warns when the stalagmites are going to happen. "Don't let them touch you!"
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 1, 2019 1:31:18 GMT
So in addition to my desire to have companions actually feel more *there* in combat... In DA 4 BioWare should focus on more combat barks. I hardly recall them happening in the previous games that often but it would be really nice to hear more things like 'the enemy's over there' or 'your character...watch out!' as you get hit by a space rock. They seem to be happening constantly in this battle with the Descent Guardian. Inky warns when the stalagmites are going to happen. "Don't let them touch you!" yeah now that you mention that I remember it. Still more from the actual companions and I don't think it happened often during the Inquisition base game and those were scripted I think.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
25,552
themikefest
15,380
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 1, 2019 1:55:55 GMT
So in addition to my desire to have companions actually feel more *there* in combat... In DA 4 BioWare should focus on more combat barks. I hardly recall them happening in the previous games that often but it would be really nice to hear more things like 'the enemy's over there' or 'your character...watch out!' as you get hit by a space rock. Or how about hey dumba**, how about running away from the fire so you don't get your sorry a** burned
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 1, 2019 1:57:41 GMT
So in addition to my desire to have companions actually feel more *there* in combat... In DA 4 BioWare should focus on more combat barks. I hardly recall them happening in the previous games that often but it would be really nice to hear more things like 'the enemy's over there' or 'your character...watch out!' as you get hit by a space rock. Or how about hey dumba**, how about running away from the fire so you don't get your sorry a** burned that was my other thought! Have the taunts/ challenges be actual lines!
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,103 Likes: 49,981
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,981
Iakus
21,103
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2019 23:20:30 GMT
They seem to be happening constantly in this battle with the Descent Guardian. Inky warns when the stalagmites are going to happen. "Don't let them touch you!" yeah now that you mention that I remember it. Still more from the actual companions and I don't think it happened often during the Inquisition base game and those were scripted I think. "KILL THAT WARRIOR!!!!"
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,454
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,650
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Sept 7, 2019 1:02:43 GMT
yeah now that you mention that I remember it. Still more from the actual companions and I don't think it happened often during the Inquisition base game and those were scripted I think. "KILL THAT WARRIOR!!!!" I thought that was the bad guys calling out our tank.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
35,430
colfoley
18,514
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 7, 2019 1:04:30 GMT
I thought that was the bad guys calling out our tank. yeah that's exactly that.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,454
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,650
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on Sept 7, 2019 1:06:38 GMT
I thought that was the bad guys calling out our tank. yeah that's exactly that. always found it weird. You should pick off the mages first.
|
|
inherit
3439
0
Sept 16, 2024 15:46:24 GMT
9,324
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,875
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Sept 7, 2019 1:54:32 GMT
Making the enemy do something which isn't sensible is the tank's job.
|
|
inherit
299
0
6,189
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,577
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 7, 2019 6:31:50 GMT
yeah that's exactly that. always found it weird. You should pick off the mages first. No one ever claimed our enemies were smart. There's a reason they're dead now.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,699
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Sept 7, 2019 12:48:10 GMT
always found it weird. You should pick off the mages first. No one ever claimed our enemies were smart. There's a reason they're dead now. In fairness to them, mages are fairly rare. Usually the unarmored guy isn’t a mage... just too poor to get proper armor. Their heuristic of going after the most heavily armored fellow (aka the one most likely to have training) would work most of the time.
|
|