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Post by colfoley on Aug 4, 2019 22:22:47 GMT
Playing Odyssey today and a few things occured to me:
1. Depending on how open they make the world and how many options they give you to potentially kill people it'd be really nice if you accidentally shoot someone you don't want to if you could have sort of a 'deescalate' button.
2. If you have almost killed someone and got them on the ground there should be an intimidate prompt. Based on your stats you can get your enemy to back down and surrender. You still get xp.
3. If there are bounties in this game you should be able to turn them in alive. This can be used to pay down notoriety.
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Post by arvaarad on Aug 6, 2019 21:25:00 GMT
Somewhat related to a critical path siding with Solas, it'd be cool if we were allowed to just be a flat out evil person. Like of course keep interesting morally grey choices but if we're in Tevinter I wanna be able to play a blood mage Altus/Magister who's a complete bag of dicks. This is part of the reason I want to eventually have a protagonist who’s a spy, or something similar. Because a spy has to act within certain boundaries, they counterintuitively allow for more roleplaying freedom. “Am I sabotaging this mission because I believe in my cause, or because my handler will blow my cover if I don’t comply?” “Am I laying low because I’m having second thoughts about my covert mission, or is it just a trick to stay under the radar?” Wildly different RP reasoning can underly the same resulting actions, allowing for more RP freedom without always needing to capture exploding branching in-game. Then, for very few key choice points, there can be some actual divergence.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 7, 2019 11:37:59 GMT
Somewhat related to a critical path siding with Solas, it'd be cool if we were allowed to just be a flat out evil person. Like of course keep interesting morally grey choices but if we're in Tevinter I wanna be able to play a blood mage Altus/Magister who's a complete bag of dicks. This is part of the reason I want to eventually have a protagonist who’s a spy, or something similar. Because a spy has to act within certain boundaries, they counterintuitively allow for more roleplaying freedom. “Am I sabotaging this mission because I believe in my cause, or because my handler will blow my cover if I don’t comply?” “Am I laying low because I’m having second thoughts about my covert mission, or is it just a trick to stay under the radar?” Wildly different RP reasoning can underly the same resulting actions, allowing for more RP freedom without always needing to capture exploding branching in-game. Then, for very few key choice points, there can be some actual divergence. I also would love to play a spy, mostly because I don't want to be a high-profile figure head surrounded by knock-off Lannisters again. I found the stories of Hawke and his compatriots in DA2 far more compelling.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 7, 2019 11:50:13 GMT
This is part of the reason I want to eventually have a protagonist who’s a spy, or something similar. Because a spy has to act within certain boundaries, they counterintuitively allow for more roleplaying freedom. “Am I sabotaging this mission because I believe in my cause, or because my handler will blow my cover if I don’t comply?” “Am I laying low because I’m having second thoughts about my covert mission, or is it just a trick to stay under the radar?” Wildly different RP reasoning can underly the same resulting actions, allowing for more RP freedom without always needing to capture exploding branching in-game. Then, for very few key choice points, there can be some actual divergence. I also would love to play a spy, mostly because I don't want to be a high-profile figure head surrounded by knock-off Lannisters again. I found the stories of Hawke and his compatriots in DA2 far more compelling. Was gonna oppose that since Hawke is my least favorite DA protag but thinking about it, I agree. No fancy title or high position. Even have the noble origin get somehow stripped of status or removed from their powerbase at least. So either like the Cousland Warden, family killed in a coup (even if you choose to not care about your family dying, you'd still be pissed they took your power) or like Dorian, still technically a noble, just very disliked by other nobility (which admittedly could be hard if you're not a good Tevinter like him).
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Post by colfoley on Aug 8, 2019 3:46:12 GMT
Something I have been musing for a while now which a conversation with Panda reminded me of is... well...a lot of people complained about the auto banter dialogue where their Ryder started quipping jokes here and there, this, to them, ruined their immersion and role playing. Inquisition had an option where in certain circumstances a dialogue wheel would appear which would give you the option of commenting on certain events in game...this appeared sparingly.
Now they don't have to do this often but having a similar stripped down dialogue wheel appearing while your companions banter...and then involve you...could be greatly appreciative. Anything from joking, to philosophy, to discouraging their joking could be great for RP. As always might be too flow breaking, hard to implement, hard to program, but it might be a nice idea worth looking into.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 8, 2019 4:11:05 GMT
The least auto-dialogue possible would be best, badly paraphrased dialogue options are already bothersome enough. I legit have to save-scum conversations so I can actually say what I want. The optional dialogue wheel prompt was cool when it appeared, I'd like to see that return.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2019 5:28:01 GMT
No BioWare game has ever let me say what I actually want, so working from tone is fine by me.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 8, 2019 5:50:41 GMT
"What I want" in the sense of the actual line that makes the most sense for my character to say. The paraphrase is often roughly what I intended but it's also not often enough to warrant save-scumming important scenes.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2019 6:58:47 GMT
Speaking of tone, I want the DA2 tone icons back so I can tell which line is supposed to be which, and I want the PC to get some goddamn jokes again.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 8, 2019 7:03:13 GMT
Speaking of tone, I want the DA2 tone icons back so I can tell which line is supposed to be which, and I want the PC to get some goddamn jokes again. yeeeesssssss! *screeches*
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Post by bizantura on Aug 8, 2019 11:10:36 GMT
An RPG that can be played offline and not riddled by MTX. A storyline that makes sense about 30 hours long not riddled by too many gameplay bugs. Hope they remember the Solas cliffhanger from DAI but why should they, that game is practically from another era!
For what passes today as Bioware I am not even sure they can manage that! I am expecting a trailer full of lies and non-existing gameplay where gamers can drool over and get excited about and lose themselves in the hype.
The more abysmal the actual product becomes the fancier the promotional advertisements gets.
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 9, 2019 5:04:31 GMT
I mean, it's not going to happen in DA, but still... I thought this was too cool not to share. PC Gamer @pcgamerArk: Genesis will let you build a mobile base on the back of a giant sea turtle buff.ly/2OMbsSr I mean... c'mon, how awesome is that.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 12, 2019 10:58:15 GMT
2000-something posts, so I'm sure this has been mentioned 80-100 times...but; I'd really like to not have to have the tutorials pop up if I already know how to play the game. Every time I walked out of Haven with Cassandra I have to go through the same lessons... "We've played this 7000 times now...
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2019 13:48:47 GMT
the cycle must continue it's something you do not comprehend
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 12, 2019 14:35:03 GMT
"What I want" in the sense of the actual line that makes the most sense for my character to say. The paraphrase is often roughly what I intended but it's also not often enough to warrant save-scumming important scenes. Just to be clear, the paraphrase is so bad that one of the other spoken lines was actually a better fit? That,s a bad thing, yeah, but it's happened to me maybe three times across all the voiced Bio games. (The only time I really remember a fail is the confrontation with Merrill's tribe late in DA2; that was really bad, though.) I actually have a higher failure rate with conventional dialogue systems, since I don't know the PC's tone.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 14, 2019 22:15:38 GMT
It's more that the lines aren't indicative enough of the actual speech to be sure of which fits best from the wheel text alone, so I often save-scum the convo to hear all the spoken lines and then decide what's more in character for my PC to say. Which I literally never did in DAO even though I have around double the playthroughs of that than DA2 and DAI combined. I should also note, I really care more about what my character says than the NPC reactions. Or in others words, I care more about the PC saying the thing I want than about the NPC being pleased or the narrative going the way I want.
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Post by phoray on Aug 15, 2019 5:59:46 GMT
It's more that the lines aren't indicative enough of the actual speech to be sure of which fits best from the wheel text alone, so I often save-scum the convo to hear all the spoken lines and then decide what's more in character for my PC to say. Which I literally never did in DAO even though I have around double the playthroughs of that than DA2 and DAI combined. I should also note, I really care more about what my character says than the NPC reactions. Or in others words, I care more about the PC saying the thing I want than about the NPC being pleased or the narrative going the way I want. I feel like, at least once, my PC said it the way I thought they should,only for the NPCs reaction to make it clear that what I thought the sentence meant is not what the sentence meant. So I think both sides are important.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 15, 2019 20:02:27 GMT
It's probably an extension of how we go about socialization irl. If you don't like upsetting people it would matter to you that others take what you say positively. I just care that others properly get what I mean, whether they like it or not is largely irrelevant to me.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 16, 2019 18:46:27 GMT
It's more that the lines aren't indicative enough of the actual speech to be sure of which fits best from the wheel text alone, so I often save-scum the convo to hear all the spoken lines and then decide what's more in character for my PC to say. Which I literally never did in DAO even though I have around double the playthroughs of that than DA2 and DAI combined. I should also note, I really care more about what my character says than the NPC reactions. Or in others words, I care more about the PC saying the thing I want than about the NPC being pleased or the narrative going the way I want. I feel like, at least once, my PC said it the way I thought they should,only for the NPCs reaction to make it clear that what I thought the sentence meant is not what the sentence meant. I had that a bunch with Alistair. Conventional dialogue systems aren't really good with PC irony.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 16, 2019 20:12:46 GMT
So here is perhaps a reiteration but seeing GP for Greedfall has inspired me. For the combat I want a party based, third person, tactical/ action RPG with the ability to fluidly switch between melee and ranged combat...with Odyssey's stealth mechanics.
That was a lot longer then I thought it would be.
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Post by arvaarad on Aug 16, 2019 21:12:57 GMT
It's probably an extension of how we go about socialization irl. If you don't like upsetting people it would matter to you that others take what you say positively. I just care that others properly get what I mean, whether they like it or not is largely irrelevant to me. I think the problem people are describing isn’t quite that. It’s more severe. Let’s imagine a silent protagonist says something in a specific tone (usually sarcastic) that the player assumes is earnest. Simple example: “What a great idea!” If the protagonist is silent, I could RP that they said it genuinely, even if the writers thought it was being said in an extremely sarcastic tone of voice. But if the NPC recoils and says “Well, that was uncalled for” my RP choice gives me an incorrect impression of the NPC’s character - that they’re overly sensitive and read sarcasm where there is none. But it’s not actually the case that the NPC is misreading my PC’s intent. They’re responding to a level of sarcasm that, from the writers’ perspective, was quite blatant. But from my perspective, it never even happened. This is why people have such wildly different impressions of Origins characters, even more so than they do of characters in later games. They’re incorporating these severe misreads into their ideas of how these characters behave. That might work for one game, but it starts to break down as characters reappear and seem to have radically changed personalities.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 16, 2019 21:33:16 GMT
Voiced lines would have the same problem without tone icons or a consistent "upper choice is nice, middle is snark, down is rude" structure. If a silent PC had lines like "What a great idea! (sarcasm)" that would fix it.
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Post by melbella on Aug 17, 2019 0:33:44 GMT
I had that a bunch with Alistair. Conventional dialogue systems aren't really good with PC irony. Me too. Alistair never got my(Wardens') stupid sense of humor. He took everything way too seriously.
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Post by arvaarad on Aug 17, 2019 0:41:29 GMT
Voiced lines would have the same problem without tone icons or a consistent "upper choice is nice, middle is snark, down is rude" structure. If a silent PC had lines like "What a great idea! (sarcasm)" that would fix it. Sure, but what’s different about voiced lines is that they confirm the tone. Sarcasm, sadness, boredom, excitement, abruptness, any number of shades of meaning that are too nuanced to include as tone icons or parentheticals. The voiced line always confirms those shades of meaning. Sure, that may include shades that weren’t properly telegraphed in the tone icons... but the shades are also there in the silent line (as reflected by NPCs’ reactions to the lines), we just never find out what they were supposed to be.
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Post by Doominike on Aug 17, 2019 1:04:55 GMT
I still prefer headcanoning the tone and assuming the NPC is a twat who misunderstood me.
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