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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 24, 2020 23:32:03 GMT
i think depending on your race your character needs a reason to fight the dread wolf if your an elf why wouldnt you join him?? Well, stopping planetwide genocide comes to mind. Most elves we have met so far would not support his means.
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Post by rolson00 on Mar 25, 2020 14:37:57 GMT
i think depending on your race your character needs a reason to fight the dread wolf if your an elf why wouldnt you join him?? Well, stopping planetwide genocide comes to mind. Most elves we have met so far would not support his means. at the end of inquistions last dlc almost every elf disappears to join him, most elves living under human rule had to be nice as killing isnt considered murder remeber origins city elf backstory? the dread wolf beleives humans would never allow elves to be free to he thinks he has to choose between elves and everyone else. this given the fact that the the elves downfall is his fault has only made him more fanical.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 25, 2020 15:18:42 GMT
Well, stopping planetwide genocide comes to mind. Most elves we have met so far would not support his means. at the end of inquistions last dlc almost every elf disappears to join him, most elves living under human rule had to be nice as killing isnt considered murder remeber origins city elf backstory? the dread wolf beleives humans would never allow elves to be free to he thinks he has to choose between elves and everyone else. this given the fact that the the elves downfall is his fault has only made him more fanical. It's not almost every elf. It's not even most elves. Only a small amount of elves percentage-wise have joined him.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 25, 2020 17:48:27 GMT
scars/tattoos/markings
Why I mention those? One of the top things folks like in a Bioware game is banter between characters. Why not have some explaining why a character and/or the main character has a scar/marking/tattoos? In the character creator screen, the player can choose one of those for their character. When talking with a character in the game, he/she is asked about how/why they have it. The player can have a few choices to choose from one of them being no comment since it's something they may not want to talk about.
What if a companion has a scar/tattoo/marking? Lets say when making the rounds, that companion doesn't answer why, but says maybe he/she will later once they get to know the main character better. Or it could be something that is painful to talk about where the only way he/she will open up about it is if the player romances that character. An example would be if a companion was a former slave with scars from being whipped across the back of their arms, back and/or legs. Another way could be indirectly. As you're walking along, you overhear the companion talking with whoever mentioning about how/why he/she got a scar/tattoo/marking. The main character stops to listen at the same time looks to see both are pulling up their clothing to reveal more scars/tattoos/markings. It ends up being a contest of who has the most.
I don't know how much skin will be seen when wearing armor/clothing, but asking/mentioning those is a way to get to know a character better. Imagine playing as a mage with a burn mark on your shoulder/upper arm because you were showing off how you're able to use fire spells in front of others at the circle that ended with you burning yourself. Or in a competition with another mage who got the better of you. I'm sure folks get the idea.
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Post by rolson00 on Mar 26, 2020 0:00:12 GMT
i think depending on your race your character needs a reason to fight the dread wolf if your an elf why wouldnt you join him?? Well, stopping planetwide genocide comes to mind. Most elves we have met so far would not support his means. true your right, but dont forget a number of dalish clans disappeared into forests and solas say a some clans have become no better than bandits and dont forget the slaves of tervinter they have everything to gain by joining solas. iv enjoyed our convo its bought to light that we know nothing about elven opinions in thedas and a few really baised ones such as sera and solas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 26, 2020 0:26:14 GMT
Well, stopping planetwide genocide comes to mind. Most elves we have met so far would not support his means. true your right, but dont forget a number of dalish clans disappeared into forests and solas say a some clans have become no better than bandits and dont forget the slaves of tervinter they have everything to gain by joining solas. iv enjoyed our convo its bought to light that we know nothing about elven opinions in thedas and a few really baised ones such as sera and solas. Oh, I’m not saying he won’t have an impressive number of elves in his army between the Dalish, City, Slave, Viddathari, and Ancient elves. I was just saying that so far it seems to be a minority of the elves since the majority seem either uninvolved or against him for a variety of reasons. Of the major ones we’ve met, I think the only elf who would join him is possibly Veranna, and even then maybe not anymore. But yeah, I expect to see a lot of exploration and debate about the various perspectives of the elves during this.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 27, 2020 11:41:10 GMT
I'm kinda curious as to what happened to the other Evanuris...especially the ones we know so little about like...whatever happened to June? Was he as "evil" and corrupt as the others, or was he one of the saner ones who kinda got roped up in everything? and Sylaise? According to the stories she was one of the milder ones...what happened to her? (I mean, other than "being locked away behind the veil by Solas/Fen'Harel, and likely gone insane because of it")
...yeah, I'm still on the boat of "not all Evanuris were evil" ...yet with things that get revealed my hope gets diminished every time I liked it when the stories were just stories...my poor Dalish characters are still wrapping their heads around everything that's happened
...on the other hand, I'm kinda curious if it'll ever be revealed who or what the Maker is...and whether or not Andraste was a mage like they say in the Imperial Chantry
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 27, 2020 11:45:44 GMT
...on the other hand, I'm kinda curious if it'll ever be revealed who or what the Maker is...and whether or not Andraste was a mage like they say in the Imperial Chantry Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 27, 2020 11:57:50 GMT
...on the other hand, I'm kinda curious if it'll ever be revealed who or what the Maker is...and whether or not Andraste was a mage like they say in the Imperial Chantry Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker. tch there goes one dream, ...ah well kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings then again, I'm kinda of the opinion that's how most religions start out, give a name to something you can't explain and just make enough people believe it
as for game religions in general...one of my favorites are the Aedra/Daedra from the Elder Scrolls series they are real entities who f*ck up the world every now and then (mostly courtesy of the Daedra), and at other times are just like "meh we'll sit back and enjoy mortal tear each other to pieces, and maybe just maybe send a "chosen one" when needed"
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Post by smudjygirl on Mar 27, 2020 12:39:14 GMT
Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker. tch there goes one dream, ...ah well kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings then again, I'm kinda of the opinion that's how most religions start out, give a name to something you can't explain and just make enough people believe it
as for game religions in general...one of my favorites are the Aedra/Daedra from the Elder Scrolls series they are real entities who f*ck up the world every now and then (mostly courtesy of the Daedra), and at other times are just like "meh we'll sit back and enjoy mortal tear each other to pieces, and maybe just maybe send a "chosen one" when needed"
To be honest, it kind of reminds me of Gnosticism, where the creator of everything is just an unknowable being and Solas being something like a Demiurge since he sort of created Thedas as we know it. In that sense the 'Gods' are not the same as whatever the Maker is. They can be known where as He just never can be. (That being said Titans are also Demiurgic entities as they are the 'shapers of the Earth', so maybe that's why the Elven Gods saw them as a rival)
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 27, 2020 13:12:25 GMT
tch there goes one dream, ...ah well kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings then again, I'm kinda of the opinion that's how most religions start out, give a name to something you can't explain and just make enough people believe it
as for game religions in general...one of my favorites are the Aedra/Daedra from the Elder Scrolls series they are real entities who f*ck up the world every now and then (mostly courtesy of the Daedra), and at other times are just like "meh we'll sit back and enjoy mortal tear each other to pieces, and maybe just maybe send a "chosen one" when needed"
To be honest, it kind of reminds me of Gnosticism, where the creator of everything is just an unknowable being and Solas being something like a Demiurge since he sort of created Thedas as we know it. In that sense the 'Gods' are not the same as whatever the Maker is. They can be known where as He just never can be. (That being said Titans are also Demiurgic entities as they are the 'shapers of the Earth', so maybe that's why the Elven Gods saw them as a rival) hm...that'd make sense
and thanks for the explanation, you learn something new every day
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Post by Felya87 on Mar 27, 2020 13:16:05 GMT
I can't even remember if I've ever posted here...but my wishes for DA4 are very... simple. Not easy... but simple.
Playng a little AC Odyssey and Inquisition hand to hand, I know I'd like to be able to play more muscular women in the next DA. Not waring height, but the chance to play as more muscular warriors or slimmer rogues would be great, for both genders.
And I'm beating a dead horse, but really, better, fantasy hairstyles!!! And more!!! One thing I always feel BioWare struggle to get is to give more choices in the CC instead of less. All Bio games lock up some hairstyles (usually the better ones) out of CC, and is very annoyng. Expecially because the hairstyles that are left to the players are all the most uninspired NPC standard, and it kill a lot of the mood when the very well crafted protagonist end up looking as boring as any of the most unimportant NPC because of the hair!!!
I doubt it will be ever implemented, butI'd love the chance to have actual "modelling" for the hair: like, having a base hairstyles, but letting the player add braids, strands, ponytails, bangs, maybe letting us color them separately.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Mar 27, 2020 17:45:29 GMT
...on the other hand, I'm kinda curious if it'll ever be revealed who or what the Maker is...and whether or not Andraste was a mage like they say in the Imperial Chantry Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker.
To be fair, they state a lot even if it does not make much sense. Gaider (i.e. not lead writer anymore) once said (back in 2012) that "Morrigan is not an atheist" (we don't quite know) and "there is no such thing as atheists in Thedas" (dick move on his part, I guess), but missing the point that the Qunari, while following a perculiar belief system, aren't theists either. Mary Kirby's spontaneous twitter comment of "Necromancy=Blood Magic" is a similar blunder.
Not confirming or denying the Maker because "it symbolizes faith" carries quite a few unfortunate notions. Like, is faith only valid if it follows one particular very narrow definition with an awful lot of in-universe baggage and some unfortunate real-life implications attached? Don't take me wrong, I actually like the fact the Dragon Age setting has a strong focus on source bias, but sometimes the writers behind it seem to forget that apparently.
They can be known where as He just never can be. (That being said Titans are also Demiurgic entities as they are the 'shapers of the Earth', so maybe that's why the Elven Gods saw them as a rival) Being "beyond yer conprehenshun" or "the less He does, the more He is proven" is a cheap cop-out anyway, shifting the burden of proof.
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Post by smudjygirl on Mar 27, 2020 18:56:59 GMT
Buckeldemon I agree, but there's plenty of theologies that believe the creator entity just can't be comprehended by mortal beings. In this case, I don't think it matters if the Maker is proven or not, believers will continue to believe (because, like you say, the less he does the more he's proven) and unbelievers never did in the first place. That's just my opinion though, it's never been a part of the world that interested me tbh
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 28, 2020 2:12:46 GMT
...on the other hand, I'm kinda curious if it'll ever be revealed who or what the Maker is...and whether or not Andraste was a mage like they say in the Imperial Chantry Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker. It's been a long time, but I vividly remember that the Evanuris defeating some sort of Sun God?
What if, here's a hot take, that Sun God is the Maker and had plotted his revenge against the elves by creating humans?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 28, 2020 2:42:07 GMT
Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker. It's been a long time, but I vividly remember that the Evanuris defeating some sort of Sun God?
What if, here's a hot take, that Sun God is the Maker and had plotted his revenge against the elves by creating humans?
That was Elgar'nan. dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Elgar%27nan
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 28, 2020 2:49:42 GMT
Bioware has stated they are never going to confirm or deny the Maker. It's been a long time, but I vividly remember that the Evanuris defeating some sort of Sun God?
What if, here's a hot take, that Sun God is the Maker and had plotted his revenge against the elves by creating humans?
Correct. It's part of the creation myth of the Dalish religion: Long ago, when time itself was young, the only things in existence were the sun and the land. The sun, curious about the land, bowed his head close to her body, and Elgar'nan was born in the place where they touched. The sun and the land loved Elgar'nan greatly, for he was beautiful and clever. As a gift to Elgar'nan, the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest, and all manner of wonderful green things. Elgar'nan loved his mother's gifts and praised them highly and walked amongst them often.
The sun, looking down upon the fruitful land, saw the joy that Elgar'nan took in her works and grew jealous. Out of spite, he shone his face full upon all the creatures the earth had created, and burned them all to ashes. The land cracked and split from bitterness and pain, and cried salt tears for the loss of all she had wrought. The pool of tears cried for the land became the ocean, and the cracks in her body the first rivers and streams.
Elgar'nan was furious at what his father had done and vowed vengeance. He lifted himself into the sky and wrestled the sun, determined to defeat him. They fought for an eternity, and eventually the sun grew weak, while Elgar'nan's rage was unabated. Eventually Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky and buried him in a deep abyss created by the land's sorrow. With the sun gone, the world was covered in shadow, and all that remained in the sky were the reminders of Elgar'nan's battle with his father—drops of the sun's lifeblood, which twinkled and shimmered in the darkness.
—From The Tale of Elgar'nan and the Sun, as told by Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves
Elgar'nan had defeated his father, the sun, and all was covered in darkness. Pleased with himself, Elgar'nan sought to console his mother, the earth, by replacing all that the sun had destroyed. But the earth knew that without the sun, nothing could grow. She whispered to Elgar'nan this truth, and pleaded with him to release his father, but Elgar'nan's pride was great, and his vengeance was terrible, and he refused.
It was at this moment that Mythal walked out of the sea of the earth's tears and onto the land. She placed her hand on Elgar'nan's brow, and at her touch he grew calm and knew that his anger had led him astray. Humbled, Elgar'nan went to the place where the sun was buried and spoke to him. Elgar'nan said he would release the sun if the sun promised to be gentle and to return to the earth each night. The sun, feeling remorse at what he had done, agreed.
And so the sun rose again in the sky, and shone his golden light upon the earth. Elgar'nan and Mythal, with the help of the earth and the sun, brought back to life all the wondrous things that the sun had destroyed, and they grew and thrived. And that night, when the sun had gone to sleep, Mythal gathered the glowing earth around his bed, and formed it into a sphere to be placed in the sky, a pale reflection of the sun's true glory.
—From The Tale of Mythal's Touch, as told by Gisharel, Keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves Considering what we know of the Evanuris, this could very well be lies to make them seem like gods. But yeah I remember people thinking the Sun god could have been the same entity humans call the Maker. Even Solas, who lived during that time, isn't dismissive of the Maker (in fact he likes the idea of a God that doesn't have to prove themselves one) so perhaps there is some truth there and the Evanuris just created the fight myth like I said before or maybe they tried to usurp them just like the ancient magisters.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 28, 2020 10:49:44 GMT
it would add to all that sun symbolism the Chantry seems so fond of
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 28, 2020 13:27:24 GMT
It's been a long time, but I vividly remember that the Evanuris defeating some sort of Sun God?
What if, here's a hot take, that Sun God is the Maker and had plotted his revenge against the elves by creating humans?
Correct. It's part of the creation myth of the Dalish religion: *snip* Considering what we know of the Evanuris, this could very well be lies to make them seem like gods. But yeah I remember people thinking the Sun god could have been the same entity humans call the Maker. Even Solas, who lived during that time, isn't dismissive of the Maker (in fact he likes the idea of a God that doesn't have to prove themselves one) so perhaps there is some truth there and the Evanuris just created the fight myth like I said before or maybe they tried to usurp them just like the ancient magisters. That is my personal theory. The Maker is real, as a godly entity the Sun God that got deposed by the Evanuris. But the Maker survived and plotted his revenge against the elves. Whatever Solas' rebellion was part of his plan or an exploited opportunity or pure coincidence, humans arriving to Thedas while elves are still struggling to get their footing was a true knockout blow for elves.
As well aiding Andraste in her struggle against Tevinter was a plot to restrict magic use among both humans and elves, to make sure the Vale remain shut. Unlike Solas who claims he has a plan to deal with trapped Evanuris, the Maker wants to keep them imprisoned. Due to both considering it a high risk and because Solas' goal is to bring back the old times of elven dominance that would likely kill off humans.
But why is the Maker so secretive that neither Solas is aware of him, yet at same time Solas is not dismissive he exists. Solas certainly must know something, which he either kept it secret from the Inquisitor or he is just unsure as if he sees pieces of puzzles but with so many missing he can't put it together.
At least that's my personal theory.
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 28, 2020 13:29:23 GMT
it would add to all that sun symbolism the Chantry seems so fond of This too.
Sure the Sun is a very common religious symbol in both reality and fiction, but what if it's related in Dragon Ago universe?
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 28, 2020 14:11:29 GMT
it would add to all that sun symbolism the Chantry seems so fond of This too.
Sure the Sun is a very common religious symbol in both reality and fiction, but what if it's related in Dragon Ago universe?
I assume it has some sort of relation with something at the very least
in many real life religions, the sun is a symbol of light and life, and often associated with the supreme god of a pantheon (such as Ra in the Egyptian pantheon) however as the Chantry religion is mostly based on Christianity the sun in this is most likely the symbol of the Maker/God
in the DA universe, we know of two entities who use the sun as their symbolism, the Maker and Elger'nan (though imo. the latter's vallaslin seems more like an eclipse)
there was a theory that elves were spirit-like before the veil (I don't recall when and where I read/heard that though) if the Maker's symbol is the sun, and Elger'nan was/is known as "eldest of the sun" who struck down his father... meh...guess we'll have to wait and see, though it's also highly likely we'll never find out
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Post by Buckeldemon on Mar 28, 2020 16:15:34 GMT
Considering what we know of the Evanuris, this could very well be lies to make them seem like gods. But yeah I remember people thinking the Sun god could have been the same entity humans call the Maker. Even Solas, who lived during that time, isn't dismissive of the Maker (in fact he likes the idea of a God that doesn't have to prove themselves one) so perhaps there is some truth there and the Evanuris just created the fight myth like I said before or maybe they tried to usurp them just like the ancient magisters.1) I could guess this stems from Solas seeing "too much proof", i.e. megalomaniac antics by the Evanuris. Though I wonder if Solas got the similarities between the Chantry's interpretation of the Maker and some of the Evanuris. Both score for deeds of creating something, being displeased with it, then dropping and ignoring it, consequences be damned.
2) If "the Maker" did not "exist" for the ancient elves in some kind or form, i.e. by showing something desireable that the Evanuris could "ursurp", it does not really matter anyway. As far as we know, all the "how dare they?" rhetoric comes from the Chantry.
-snip- At least that's my personal theory. According to that take, the Maker would be proven to be the most colossal jerk "god" in-universe, probably topping Lorkhan of TES fame. Oh and it would vindicate the point that the "Maker" (or organised Andrastianism) is a more or less existential threat to any elf. in many real life religions, the sun is a symbol of light and life, and often associated with the supreme god of a pantheon (such as Ra in the Egyptian pantheon) however as the Chantry religion is mostly based on Christianity the sun in this is most likely the symbol of the Maker/God Is there any culture featuring extensive agriculture, but did not develop sun cults? Given what humans in DA know (or more likely, not know), I guess the chantry sunburst is some combination of general (older) sun cult (a.k.a. heretic heathen beliefs) combined with the flames of Andraste's pyre.
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Croatsky
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 28, 2020 16:53:57 GMT
-snip- At least that's my personal theory. According to that take, the Maker would be proven to be the most colossal jerk "god" in-universe, probably topping Lorkhan of TES fame. Oh and it would vindicate the point that the "Maker" (or organised Andrastianism) is a more or less existential threat to any elf. Yeah, well, those pointy ears started it!
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Post by Lazarillo on Mar 28, 2020 17:00:29 GMT
kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings I really, really, want them to walk back the reveal of the Evanuris somewhat by saying something like "oh, yeah, Elves had already followed this religion and then these warlord guys all named themselves after the Pantheon to make themselves look awesome.", then go back to treating the Dalish religion and the Chantry equally on the whole refusing-to-confirm-or-deny front. I like that they keep mum on the Maker. They just need to make it so the other religions get the same treatment.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 28, 2020 20:20:15 GMT
kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings I really, really, want them to walk back the reveal of the Evanuris somewhat by saying something like "oh, yeah, Elves had already followed this religion and then these warlord guys all named themselves after the Pantheon to make themselves look awesome.", then go back to treating the Dalish religion and the Chantry equally on the whole refusing-to-confirm-or-deny front. I like that they keep mum on the Maker. They just need to make it so the other religions get the same treatment. I heavily agree on this
in which case my future DA4 characters will go: *Nemesis would like to know your location*
(in case you don't know, the goddess Nemesis in Greco-Roman mythology was (among other things) the goddess of hubris against the gods, balance and retribution)
I loved the fantastical feel of the Dalish religion in Origins and DA2, and now it mostly feels like they're just saying all "yeah everything but the Maker is a lie" as I said in an earlier post, my own Dalish characters (and by extension me) still don't know what to make of this mess
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