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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 28, 2020 21:02:15 GMT
I really, really, want them to walk back the reveal of the Evanuris somewhat by saying something like "oh, yeah, Elves had already followed this religion and then these warlord guys all named themselves after the Pantheon to make themselves look awesome.", then go back to treating the Dalish religion and the Chantry equally on the whole refusing-to-confirm-or-deny front. I like that they keep mum on the Maker. They just need to make it so the other religions get the same treatment. I heavily agree on this
in which case my future DA4 characters will go: *Nemesis would like to know your location*
(in case you don't know, the goddess Nemesis in Greco-Roman mythology was (among other things) the goddess of hubris against the gods, balance and retribution)
I loved the fantastical feel of the Dalish religion in Origins and DA2, and now it mostly feels like they're just saying all "yeah everything but the Maker is a lie" as I said in an earlier post, my own Dalish characters (and by extension me) still don't know what to make of this mess I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 28, 2020 22:07:59 GMT
I heavily agree on this
in which case my future DA4 characters will go: *Nemesis would like to know your location*
(in case you don't know, the goddess Nemesis in Greco-Roman mythology was (among other things) the goddess of hubris against the gods, balance and retribution)
I loved the fantastical feel of the Dalish religion in Origins and DA2, and now it mostly feels like they're just saying all "yeah everything but the Maker is a lie" as I said in an earlier post, my own Dalish characters (and by extension me) still don't know what to make of this mess I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie. same... then again, religion is about believing
if you belief there's a higher power that's say...a monstrous tentacle creature that loves books, and enough people have you convinced such a thing is real...well *shrug*
(yeah, I'm nodding at Daedric Prince Hermaeus Mora...but you get the idea)
for me that's what makes religion interesting (even though I personally don't belief), what makes people belief and how did this belief start
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Post by andydandymandy on Mar 28, 2020 22:48:04 GMT
I heavily agree on this
in which case my future DA4 characters will go: *Nemesis would like to know your location*
(in case you don't know, the goddess Nemesis in Greco-Roman mythology was (among other things) the goddess of hubris against the gods, balance and retribution)
I loved the fantastical feel of the Dalish religion in Origins and DA2, and now it mostly feels like they're just saying all "yeah everything but the Maker is a lie" as I said in an earlier post, my own Dalish characters (and by extension me) still don't know what to make of this mess I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie. Patrick Weekes (head writer of the Dragon Age franchise) specifically said in a 2016 interview that he would never confirm or deny the existence of The Maker.
BF: Last question. What is one thing you've always wanted to tell people about Inquisition but have never been asked?
PW: You know, it's funny, because you've sent me these questions, but I've been trying to think about anything that I've not already blabbed about because someone asked it. As goofy as it is, I think Mother Giselle is one of my favourite ones, because she doesn't come up very often. Most people just see her as this character you talk to in Haven, and I wish people would talk more to Mother Giselle. Because I feel like... without mother Giselle, we have a game that is in many ways about faith, but ultimately says it always comes down to magic and powerful mages punching each other with lightning bolts. And Mother Giselle is the voice of the 'mostly reasonable' religious person. And I think she's important in a story about faith to have that. Because I think that in a lot of cases, if you tell a story that's about faith and about religion, it's all too easy for that to come down to 'Ah, but this is just made up.' and yeah the stories are false but believing can make you do good things, and too many people fall back on that as an easy message. Because it's the comforting thing that lets you say 'We're not saying religion is bad, we're just saying it's not true, but you could still be nice'. And I really don't like that. I don't like closing that door. I don't want to ever... As Dave Gaider has left the Dragon Age franchise and I moved over.. I don't want to ever say there is no Maker. I don't want to ever completely confirm it, because if you confirm it, then you have no need for faith. But I don't like the stories where you completely answer and the answer is 'no'. And I think a character like Giselle, who you can have talks with and go 'Okay, but I don't believe this, this doesn't seem to work,' and she seems to have an answer other than 'I don't know'. I think that's fun. And I think that's something worth listening to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/4auaxj/spoilers_all_biofan_interview_patrick_weekes/
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 28, 2020 22:58:34 GMT
^ see while I love that reasoning, I can't understand why there can't be more then one religion in the world of Dragon Age I mean sure, we've got the Qun, the Dwarven Ancestors, the Chantry/Maker and the Elvhen pantheon but two of them have been turned into one is a hoax/lie invented by powerful mad people and the other turns out...living mountains (or something like that, I've yet to play the Descent dlc) plus, I always wondered why we couldn't have supported Mother Giselle as the next Divine ah well...I'm probably getting way to stoked about this
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Post by Buckeldemon on Mar 29, 2020 2:06:45 GMT
I heavily agree on this in which case my future DA4 characters will go: *Nemesis would like to know your location*
(in case you don't know, the goddess Nemesis in Greco-Roman mythology was (among other things) the goddess of hubris against the gods, balance and retribution) I loved the fantastical feel of the Dalish religion in Origins and DA2, and now it mostly feels like they're just saying all "yeah everything but the Maker is a lie" as I said in an earlier post, my own Dalish characters (and by extension me) still don't know what to make of this mess I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie. I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie, except Andrastianism. And the the Avvar beliefs; to get rid of those the would ahve to retcon I guess. The existence of the Titans does not really make the dwarven stone faith a lie, at best is actually proves it to some extent. The Qun cannot be a lie in this vein anyway, as it does not believe in anything supernatural.
BF: Last question. What is one thing you've always wanted to tell people about Inquisition but have never been asked?
PW: You know, it's funny, because you've sent me these questions, but I've been trying to think about anything that I've not already blabbed about because someone asked it. As goofy as it is, I think Mother Giselle is one of my favourite ones, because she doesn't come up very often. Most people just see her as this character you talk to in Haven, and I wish people would talk more to Mother Giselle. Because I feel like... without mother Giselle, we have a game that is in many ways about faith, but ultimately says it always comes down to magic and powerful mages punching each other with lightning bolts. And Mother Giselle is the voice of the 'mostly reasonable' religious person. And I think she's important in a story about faith to have that. Because I think that in a lot of cases, if you tell a story that's about faith and about religion, it's all too easy for that to come down to 'Ah, but this is just made up.' and yeah the stories are false but believing can make you do good things, and too many people fall back on that as an easy message. Because it's the comforting thing that lets you say 'We're not saying religion is bad, we're just saying it's not true, but you could still be nice'. And I really don't like that. I don't like closing that door. I don't want to ever... As Dave Gaider has left the Dragon Age franchise and I moved over.. I don't want to ever say there is no Maker. I don't want to ever completely confirm it, because if you confirm it, then you have no need for faith. But I don't like the stories where you completely answer and the answer is 'no'. And I think a character like Giselle, who you can have talks with and go 'Okay, but I don't believe this, this doesn't seem to work,' and she seems to have an answer other than 'I don't know'. I think that's fun. And I think that's something worth listening to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/4auaxj/spoilers_all_biofan_interview_patrick_weekes/
For the red part, we'll see how Bioware will handle the Dalish in this regard, as their faith is the one being debunked or declared false, not Andrastianism. ... My feelings regarding Giselle are pretty mixed to be honest. Of course, she's definitely more sympathetic (she did refuse direct orders to give aid without national or racial bias and does not give much about chantry bureacracy) than some of the ineffectual (Elthina), insane zealous (Petrice) or quite arrogant priests (several more) which we met until now, but she's really full of shit at times. "We don't teach that magic is evil, pride is." (paraphrased). The first part is an outright lie, and the second is a boomerang for the Chantry itself, given how awfully self-absorbed they are. Apart from this, she's still like most other andrastians in that, for who-ever's sake, she cannot leave others alone and has to put the Maker above or behind everything. Bah. "See the tattoo on my face? Think that I care for your usual overbearing take?"
On thing I wonder though: As she appears in the beginning of the Trespasser to introduce the Inquisitor to the situation, she seems to be wearing a brother/sister robe. Is that and oversight or did she got demoted in the meantime?
^ see while I love that reasoning, I can't understand why there can't be more then one religion in the world of Dragon AgeI mean sure, we've got the Qun, the Dwarven Ancestors, the Chantry/Maker and the Elvhen pantheon but two of them have been turned into one is a hoax/lie invented by powerful mad people and the other turns out...living mountains (or something like that, I've yet to play the Descent dlc) Very much the bolded part. I cannot quite grasp while apparently quite a few people can only imagine some christian-styled monotheism as a "valid faith". What about something else, or the others? Well, I'm just quoting myself here again given I already adressed that but it got lost or ignored: Not confirming or denying the Maker because "it symbolizes faith" carries quite a few unfortunate notions. Like, is faith only valid if it follows one particular very narrow definition with an awful lot of in-universe baggage and some unfortunate real-life implications attached? Don't take me wrong, I actually like the fact the Dragon Age setting has a strong focus on source bias, but sometimes the writers behind it seem to forget that apparently.
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Post by bear on Mar 29, 2020 6:41:09 GMT
No Tolkieneqsue or Witcher series-like ending for elves, as in no "The days of the elves in this world are waning. Elves will be leaving the planet to make way for humans". Hope they're not using that tired trope.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2020 6:42:56 GMT
No Tolkieneqsue or Witcher series-like ending for elves, as in no " The days of the elves in this world are waning. Elves will be leaving the planet to make way for humans". Hope they're not using that tired trope. I doubt it, both because I doubt this is the last Dragon Age game and because most elves aren’t with Solas.
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Post by bear on Mar 29, 2020 6:53:58 GMT
No Tolkieneqsue or Witcher series-like ending for elves, as in no " The days of the elves in this world are waning. Elves will be leaving the planet to make way for humans". Hope they're not using that tired trope. I doubt it, both because I doubt this is the last Dragon Age game and because most elves aren’t with Solas. I hope you're right, but it really depends on the which paths the writers' minds might travel along. The lead writer, IIRC, was a writer on the Baldur's Gate series, so I'm sort of optimistic, but a little part of me dreads whether or not writers look at other succesful FRPG's and their storylines, and to what extent they may want to copy those. The "elves leave continent/dimension/planet and humans become dominant" is established in so many fantasy worlds. It would be nice to see a fantasy setting where this... "assumed inevitability" of decline of non-human civilisation, so to speak, is challenged and dismissed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2020 6:59:45 GMT
I doubt it, both because I doubt this is the last Dragon Age game and because most elves aren’t with Solas. I hope you're right, but it really depends on the which paths the writers' minds might travel along. The lead writer, IIRC, was a writer on the Baldur's Gate series, so I'm sort of optimistic, but a little part of me dreads whether or not writers look at other succesful FRPG's and their storylines, and to what extent they may want to copy those. The "elves leave continent/dimension/planet and humans become dominant" is established in so many fantasy worlds. It would be nice to see a fantasy setting where this... "assumed inevitability" of decline of non-human civilisation, so to speak, is challenged and dismissed. David Gaider isn't the lead writer anymore. He left Bioware after DAI. Patrick Weekes is the lead writer, and they didn't work on Baldur's gate. They joined Bioware in 2006 and worked on the ME1-3 and DAI.
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Post by bear on Mar 29, 2020 7:09:42 GMT
Oh well, I'll just hope Weekes isn't a fan of the "all non-humans are destined to die off/exile themselves in a multi-racial fantasy setting"-trope. *tries to stay optimistic*
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 29, 2020 7:18:15 GMT
Oh well, I'll just hope Weekes isn't a fan of the " all non-humans are destined to die off/exile themselves in a multi-racial fantasy setting"-trope. *tries to stay optimistic* I don’t think so, judging from his previous work with non-human races. Besides it’s not just up to him anyway.
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Post by Felya87 on Mar 29, 2020 12:41:22 GMT
kinda makes you wonder why they're willing to confirm and deny everything else but the Maker I'm not particularly religious, but do have an interest in it (especially the older ones like Greek mythology, Shintoism and the like) so kinda finding out about the elven gods being...well...most of them being simply douche-bags with plans of grandeur and arrogance kinda has me with mixed feelings I really, really, want them to walk back the reveal of the Evanuris somewhat by saying something like "oh, yeah, Elves had already followed this religion and then these warlord guys all named themselves after the Pantheon to make themselves look awesome.", then go back to treating the Dalish religion and the Chantry equally on the whole refusing-to-confirm-or-deny front. I like that they keep mum on the Maker. They just need to make it so the other religions get the same treatment. This. I like playng both Dalish elves and Andrastians non-human. I hate the mistreatment of elven religion, and I find much more logical your "these guys just named themselves after the phanteon" than "the elven were just following these crazy mages". I feel that anyway it would make more sense this way than elves just following some mages.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 29, 2020 12:57:08 GMT
It seems very true to life to me that Gods that are worshipped were just great kings, queens and heroes, not real divinity, and the exaggerated, dramatic tales, songs, stories and poems their lives inspired were then compiled and future generations then continued to worship these so called Gods. And the further away we are from the time when these Gods lived and their tales written, spoken and sung, the more the content changes and their influence on culture differs.
Similarly, we worship celebrities, we worships people who excel in sports, we worship political leaders. Something akin to a religion can form around people who are far removed from the concept of divinity, but their actions, words and influence bring a lot of people around them to fanatically believe and worship them as if they had some kind of power or divinity. What is the concept of '' divine '' and '' religion '' in Thedas to begin with? Where do these concepts come from? Those are interesting questions as well, which we will never know the answer to.
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Post by bear on Mar 30, 2020 8:12:21 GMT
Small thing. Better scripting for party banter:
Some dialogue between companions only occur before and after their personal quests. Party banter essentially comes in five categories: 1) General banter, not related to any quests. 2) Post-Main quest banter. 3) Pre-Personal Quest banter, 4 Location banter, and finally 5) Post-Personal Quest banter.
What I would want to see is scripting always playing Pre-Personal quest banter before general banter. It can take a long time to wait for banter to pop between characters, and especially with Iron Bull and Solas, I always like to have Solas and IB have their Qun debate out of the way before doing IB's personal quest. Makes their post-IB personal quest debate all the more satisfactory. It's my favorite inter-companion "storyline" in DA3, tbh, Solas and IB's Qun talks if you go with the most... let's say popular outcome of IB's PQ, that is. Cass and Cole's my second favorite, and Dorian and IB's (possible) "interaction" my third because it's funny and well-written.
But waiting for that banter is not all that entertaining. Especially when you're waiting for banter that can only occur before, and never after, finishing a companion's PQ. First dialogue should always be an "introduction" dialogue, first impressions kinda thing - like with IB and Vivienne's "you shall not adress me as "Viv" dialogue. After that, script should be the pre-PQ dialogue.
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Post by lacos0333 on Mar 31, 2020 14:42:03 GMT
I cannot imagine the Age of Dragons without dragon. Maybe not an easy process tame and mount a dragon. But this should be faster than a horse and you can get places those otherwise inaccessible, for example: there is no mountain path.
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Post by andydandymandy on Apr 1, 2020 3:27:41 GMT
I am fine with massive open world maps but I think for DA4 they should be 1. plot integral and 2. have a main quest that matches the size. The reason the Hinderlands was a problem was because you do little of importance there. The most important things you did in that area was talk to someone and everything else was a bunch of fetch quests to fill up space and pad out playtime. Most of the maps in Inquisition you could even skip entirely without ever going to them once to finish the main campaign.
They should go back to the Dragon Age Origins model for the maps, in that they have fewer of them, and they all have a story that takes you a long time to complete (even if you choose not to do the side or fetch quests). The DLC maps for Inquisition (Jaws of Hakkon and The Decent) follow this model and they feel well balanced and well paced in terms of story vs. exploration. DA4 should be more like Jaws of Hakkon and The Decent and less like the Hinderlands.
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Post by TabithaTH on Apr 1, 2020 6:17:02 GMT
Ultimately the problem was the implementation of the power system. It necessitated a bunch of side content in order to prevent a softlock if you spent it incorrectly. Could that side content have been designed better? Yes, definitely. However, had the power system been slightly different, they wouldn't have needed all those padding quests. The only reason the Hinterlands needed all those extra quests was because you otherwise risked not being able to progress if you used power on something that didn't give back as much as it cost, as is the case with some of the main quests.
And yes, Descend and JoH were much better and much more enjoyable.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 1, 2020 23:57:23 GMT
I worry that by the end of this they’re going to be saying every religion is a lie, except Andrastianism. And the the Avvar beliefs; to get rid of those the would ahve to retcon I guess. The existence of the Titans does not really make the dwarven stone faith a lie, at best is actually proves it to some extent. The Qun cannot be a lie in this vein anyway, as it does not believe in anything supernatural. Why would Andrastianism end up being true? Corypheus says that some of its basic tenets are lies.
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Post by phoray on Apr 5, 2020 13:49:30 GMT
So, I was reading about various Star Treks and how they dealt with "current events" etc. I hated Enterprise but they explored some tenuously 9/11 themes. And I was thinking it would be kinda cool to have a segment that was Corona-virus like. Like, the Qunari has Minrathous surrounded and locked down. But then there start being plague issues. Ameliorated by the presence of healer spirit mages but they could explore classism in a new way. Some african countries just denied acceptance of a Vaccine Trial because of all the horror stories, but also I was seeing some commentary about how sometimes Slums are cut off and left to die to protect the rest of the city from the disease.
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This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
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Post by Norstaera on Apr 5, 2020 14:12:57 GMT
*snip* And I was thinking it would be kinda cool to have a segment that was Corona-virus like. Like, the Qunari has Minrathous surrounded and locked down. But then there start being plague issues. Ameliorated by the presence of healer spirit mages but they could explore classism in a new way. *snip* Slums are cut off and left to die to protect the rest of the city from the disease. Like the Wardens will destroy a Blight-infested village to contain the disease. Include that information in the ... debates, for want of a better word, to flesh out and deepen the argument and consequences. Especially if Grey Wardens play any sort of significant role, even if only as a constant undertone to the overall environment.
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Post by phoray on Apr 5, 2020 15:56:32 GMT
*snip* And I was thinking it would be kinda cool to have a segment that was Corona-virus like. Like, the Qunari has Minrathous surrounded and locked down. But then there start being plague issues. Ameliorated by the presence of healer spirit mages but they could explore classism in a new way. *snip* Slums are cut off and left to die to protect the rest of the city from the disease. Like the Wardens will destroy a Blight-infested village to contain the disease. Include that information in the ... debates, for want of a better word, to flesh out and deepen the argument and consequences. Especially if Grey Wardens play any sort of significant role, even if only as a constant undertone to the overall environment. Probably, they would have to support why things are so desperate. Are we running out of supplies, so cutting them off helps in two ways? Was the wall weakened in that area by the Qunari, , and residents are getting in the way or repairs? or some sort of military expansion?
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Post by colfoley on Apr 5, 2020 20:17:54 GMT
I know I've said this before but mother of god don't make us use up a talent point on a skill we don't want to get to one we do.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Apr 5, 2020 20:45:46 GMT
I know I've said this before but mother of god don't make us use up a talent point on a skill we don't want to get to one we do. I think I felt this way in this order: DAI>DAO>DA2. I remember being happy with DA2 skill trees I guess? but I remember wasting some serious points in DAI that I would just absolutely never use.... it didn't help that we're only allowed 8 skills. So using points to have access to skills, but not actually getting them, is twice as bad.
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andydandymandy
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 285 Likes: 686
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andydandymandy
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February 2018
andydandymandy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by andydandymandy on Apr 6, 2020 3:17:10 GMT
What if we give the player the ability to have two different weapon sets and builds (and maybe armor sets) that they can toggle back and fourth before they go out and do a mission?
You could spec both builds however you want (both could be Sword & Shield if you are a Warrior, with a difference in how they are built, or one could be a Sword & Shield and the other could be Two Handed, both are completely different but still the same class). Each build could have a weapon set and armor set assigned to it.
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colfoley
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Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Apr 6, 2020 4:06:38 GMT
What if we give the player the ability to have two different weapon sets and builds (and maybe armor sets) that they can toggle back and fourth before they go out and do a mission? You could spec both builds however you want (both could be Sword & Shield if you are a Warrior, with a difference in how they are built, or one could be a Sword & Shield and the other could be Two Handed, both are completely different but still the same class). Each build could have a weapon set and armor set assigned to it. I think that is very likely and one way I think they can go about doing it...they did it with Origins even though DAOs combat system was super clunky. Odyssey also had a really elegant solution to this problem if you played it...though I am not sure that way would be entirely...practicable for DA.
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