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Post by shechinah on Feb 9, 2018 22:55:45 GMT
Mayim Bialik (actress from Big Bang Theory, also a neuroscientist) wanted people to stop calling women "girls" because it infantilises women*. She then went on to say you don't hear people calling men "boys", and I was thinking ... mate, have you never watched any sort of sport at all in your life? Because after the game when they interview one of the players, he often refers to the other players as "boys" or "lads", at least where I'm from. Pretty soon we're gonna have one acceptable word to use and that's it. Deviate from it at your peril  *http://www.eonline.com/au/news/838560/mayim-bialik-wants-people-to-stop-calling-women-girls-it-s-up-to-us-to-change-this-narrative I respect her but I remain at a disagreement with her. I stand by my opinion that it depends upon the context of the conversation. Yeah, I doubt we'll ever have one word that is deemed acceptable by all to use. I see people who believe this will be the inevitable consequence of political correctness but I'm not terribly inclined to believe that, in no small part due to history and the ever-diverse opinions of mankind.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 9, 2018 22:57:37 GMT
I'm not stepping into the social commentary, but that may be a regional/language thing. It's not completely unheard of, but it's still pretty rare where I'm from, especially in comparison with the use of "girls", although "girls" is more used as a counterpart to "guys". I wonder what her take on "gals" would be, in that case? You know, I seldom hear "gals" used unless it is by someone with a certain regional dialect or by someone mimicking such dialect.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,501 Likes: 12,431
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 10, 2018 0:27:04 GMT
One Angry GamerReally? My expectations for this game (and Bioware in general) just took a huge dive... I’m getting an “archive not found” from that link.
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Post by goishen on Feb 10, 2018 0:32:40 GMT
Yah, I can't wait until this political correctness gets down here. "I'mma supposed to call you what now, sugar? Zher? What's a zher? Oh that's you, sweetie pie?" At this point he would be laughing his ass off at whomever was standing in front of him.
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Post by goishen on Feb 10, 2018 0:36:32 GMT
I'm not stepping into the social commentary, but that may be a regional/language thing. It's not completely unheard of, but it's still pretty rare where I'm from, especially in comparison with the use of "girls", although "girls" is more used as a counterpart to "guys". I wonder what her take on "gals" would be, in that case? You know, I seldom hear "gals" used unless it is by someone with a certain regional dialect or by someone mimicking such dialect. You mean like the Radio DJ voice? "HEY! You guys and gals are gonna love this one, it's from a new band..."
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Post by shechinah on Feb 10, 2018 1:25:22 GMT
Yah, I can't wait until this political correctness gets down here. "I'mma supposed to call you what now, sugar? Zher? What's a zher? Oh that's you, sweetie pie?" At this point he would be laughing his ass off at whomever was standing in front of him. To be honest, I wouldn't mind a set of gender neutral pronouns and think it could be a good addition to a lot of languages. There is a decidedly lack thereof in many and it would not be solely to the benefit of people who want to use the pronouns for themselves. I personally want them because it can be a bitch to write science fiction in some languages. It's not always a problem when I'm constructing a universe that features its own languages and it reflects in dialogue and narration but for stories that don't, it'd be nice and convenient. There are some languages where you literally cannot write a sentence without using masculine or feminine words because of how gender is hardwired into the language.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 10, 2018 1:26:08 GMT
You know, I seldom hear "gals" used unless it is by someone with a certain regional dialect or by someone mimicking such dialect. You mean like the Radio DJ voice? "HEY! You guys and gals are gonna love this one, it's from a new band..." I'm not familiar?
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Post by river82 on Feb 10, 2018 3:25:22 GMT
To be honest, I wouldn't mind a set of gender neutral pronouns and think it could be a good addition to a lot of languages. There is a decidedly lack thereof in many and it would not be solely to the benefit of people who want to use the pronouns for themselves. We now officially have one in english: A writer (or speaker) may also use "they" to refer to a specific, known person who does not identify with a gender-specific pronoun such as he or she. From the Chicago Manual of Style. The AP Manual of Style modified their text to say the same thing last year. In fact, singular "they" goes all the way back to Shakespeare. Probably even before that. "There's not a man I meet but doth salute me as if I were their well acquainted friend" (Shakespeare) "It is very unfair to judge of anybody's conduct, without an intimate knowledge of their situation" (Austen) "With all due respect to such of the present company as chance to be married, my dear Mrs. Grant, there is not one in a hundred of either sex who is not taken in when they marry." (Austen) "A person can't help their birth" (Thackery) Some grammar prescriptivists have always formally nixed it though. That being said it's pretty much a done deal now - we have a singular gender neutral pronoun and it's "they/their/them". Nothing else will take off, and people have tried for over 50 years.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 10, 2018 3:33:28 GMT
We now officially have one in english: A writer (or speaker) may also use "they" to refer to a specific, known person who does not identify with a gender-specific pronoun such as he or she. From the Chicago Manual of Style. The AP Manual of Style modified their text to say the same thing last year. To be fair, none of the examples in the second box refer to a "specific, known person" as described in the first. The use is definitely increasing, but there are some flaws, especially when you're looking at speech versus technical writing. Like, I use "they" occasionally to refer to people online when I don't know their gender (sometimes, others, I admittedly tend to default to "he"). However, I can't think of a scenario where it wouldn't sound out of place to say "they" when referring to one specific person. Heck, this is probably why I frequently default when writing online, in a conversational style, and also makes a difference when, say, writing dialogue, which can come off as stilted if it leans too much to the technical side of writing.
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Retired Birthday Wizard
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: docsteely/HououinKyoma-san
XBL Gamertag: docsteely
PSN: docsteely
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Post by docsteely on Feb 10, 2018 5:42:45 GMT
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Post by shechinah on Feb 10, 2018 19:14:34 GMT
To be honest, I wouldn't mind a set of gender neutral pronouns and think it could be a good addition to a lot of languages. There is a decidedly lack thereof in many and it would not be solely to the benefit of people who want to use the pronouns for themselves. We now officially have one in english: A writer (or speaker) may also use "they" to refer to a specific, known person who does not identify with a gender-specific pronoun such as he or she. From the Chicago Manual of Style. The AP Manual of Style modified their text to say the same thing last year. Some grammar prescriptivists have always formally nixed it though. That being said it's pretty much a done deal now - we have a singular gender neutral pronoun and it's "they/their/them". Nothing else will take off, and people have tried for over 50 years. Oh yeah, I forgot about "they". Unfortunately, I prefer not to use it: the biggest reason being that it is a word which will almost always be used quite frequently. This increases the chance that confusion may arise or that context may need be provided to clarify in a way that can potentially be interruptive to the narration. I'd much prefer a set of gender neutral pronouns that do not have to share shape with another word.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 16, 2018 6:51:26 GMT
Ever since KOTOR 2-yes, I know it wasn't Bioware made but it was a sequel to a Bioware game-I've gotten every one of their games from, Jade Empire on to MEA day 1. Now, with little to go on for Anthem, and worries about DA4-why are they talking about some kind of reboot when we don't even know what happens NEXT-should I just let my younger self of gaming just cry for the loss of possibly my favorite developer? BioWare is in the brink of getting dissolved by EA if they mess up Anthem. Might as well prepare for funeral arrangements if that happens.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 16, 2018 7:44:54 GMT
You could prove where women thought that asari were good representation? They were mainly seen as sexy blue alien trope and seen as the "nice" feeley diplomatic race who for some inexplicable reason literally had a life stage were they went out and became strippers/mercenaries/dancers/prostitutes - you really think they were designed for "females"? This is one of the weirdest and jarring kind of... I don't even know what to call it, fan service? pandering? I've ever seen in any medium. It's like finding out that Galadriel was an exotic dancer in some skeevy hobbit bar in her youth.
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Post by tatann on Feb 16, 2018 12:10:29 GMT
This is one of the weirdest and jarring kind of... I don't even know what to call it, fan service? pandering? I've ever seen in any medium. It's like finding out that Galadriel was an exotic dancer in some skeevy hobbit bar in her youth. It's not fanservice, it's just bad writing. The Asari aren't any more "fan-service-y" if they have the depth of a puddle. Though tbh, this was nothing particular to the Asari, Mass Effect started by using heavily the "planet of hats" trope to make aliens stand out. So here is a race of hot alien chicks, hmmm... yeah, let's make them strippers... They just didn't take the whole thing particularly seriously. Asaris aren't hot, they have the ability to make any race think they're hot. As you can see, they lost this ability after 600 years of cryo sleep (except Peebee for some reason, when she's not wearing her racoon makeup).
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 16, 2018 12:49:15 GMT
You could prove where women thought that asari were good representation? They were mainly seen as sexy blue alien trope and seen as the "nice" feeley diplomatic race who for some inexplicable reason literally had a life stage were they went out and became strippers/mercenaries/dancers/prostitutes - you really think they were designed for "females"? ... It's like finding out that Galadriel was an exotic dancer in some skeevy hobbit bar in her youth. Who told you about these secret fantasies of mine, eh?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 16, 2018 12:56:02 GMT
Hope the Javelins move as good as MEA chars..
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 16, 2018 20:23:58 GMT
Funny how in just a few years we've come from bitching about DLC to bitching about a lack of DLC. I think this thread is proof positive that Bioware should quit trying to 'please' people and just make the games they want to make. You can always tell a soulless creation designed purely to make money vs one that was crafted with a lot of love. That's why they are in the position that they're put themselves in the first place.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 16, 2018 21:30:25 GMT
You could prove where women thought that asari were good representation? They were mainly seen as sexy blue alien trope and seen as the "nice" feeley diplomatic race who for some inexplicable reason literally had a life stage were they went out and became strippers/mercenaries/dancers/prostitutes - you really think they were designed for "females"? This is one of the weirdest and jarring kind of... I don't even know what to call it, fan service? pandering? I've ever seen in any medium. It's like finding out that Galadriel was an exotic dancer in some skeevy hobbit bar in her youth. Asari are one of those cases where they want to have both their cake and eat it. They want to have interesting lore but they also want a sexy blue alien trope. The worst case of fanservice I think is Samara as she's meant to be in the Matriarch stage, has a super serious code and mission in life, is a Justicar but they dress her in an over the top sexy, skintight, shows everything outfit. There's nothing wrong with having a sexy character design but the character actually has to match it. They make the asari this sexy race who everyone thinks are hot but none of the main Asari characters we meet are into sex, even the one who should be like Liara who is actually in the maiden stage, but she get's the shy, awkward, obsessed with the PC archetype. All the background asari are sexy like dancers/strippers but none of the charcaters you actually explore are. A good design from BioWare of a sexy female character is Isabella, cus yes she's wearing revealing clothes but she also actually shows interest and wants sex which is actually rare as so many female character in games who are designed sexy actually act overly innocent. She also isn't a 2D character but even when their designs aren't great, BioWare does always tend to write their female characters really well.
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Heimdall
N6
    
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,501 Likes: 12,431
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 16, 2018 22:00:35 GMT
This is one of the weirdest and jarring kind of... I don't even know what to call it, fan service? pandering? I've ever seen in any medium. It's like finding out that Galadriel was an exotic dancer in some skeevy hobbit bar in her youth. Asari are one of those cases where they want to have both their cake and eat it. They want to have interesting lore but they also want a sexy blue alien trope. The worst case of fanservice I think is Samara as she's meant to be in the Matriarch stage, has a super serious code and mission in life, is a Justicar but they dress her in an over the top sexy, skintight, shows everything outfit. There's nothing wrong with having a sexy character design but the character actually has to match it. They make the asari this sexy race who everyone thinks are hot but none of the main Asari characters we meet are into sex, even the one who should be like Liara who is actually in the maiden stage, but she get's the shy, awkward, obsessed with the PC archetype. All the background asari are sexy like dancers/strippers but none of the charcaters you actually explore are. A good design from BioWare of a sexy female character is Isabella, cus yes she's wearing revealing clothes but she also actually shows interest and wants sex which is actually rare as so many female character in games who are designed sexy actually act overly innocent. She also isn't a 2D character but even when their designs aren't great, BioWare does always tend to write their female characters really well. It’s particularly weird because the Asari are sort of set up to be a subversion of the sexy alien space babe trope. They’re powerful, influential, technologically the most advanced. But the developers apparently wanted to subvert the trope while still having sexy alien space babes that fulfill the trope.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 17, 2018 23:00:22 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. Actually with Anthem whats there to see? All indicators point to this being an attempt by EA to grab in the Destiny crowd....a game/genre that I do not like. This is far from your typical Bioware gamw where it is SP focused and companion focused. Anthem is MP focused and group play focused....far from the Bioware standard. For many people like myself, there isnt a reason to wait and see. If I know that I do not like mayo and pickles on my burger, I do not need to "try it" to know that I wont like it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 17, 2018 23:18:54 GMT
What is Anthem about, anyways. Both, Mass Effect and Dragon Age, story elements were revealed during their first E3 trailers. But what is it about? Not impressed with just being a loot-shooter and I hate shared world/co-op in story driven games. Just dilutes the story and story effect on your world is lost. It would be great if you can just turn them off, like the new Monster Hunter Game. Unless I know more about those, this is a pass for me. Great point. Back in 2005 I had a general idea of what ME was about, same with DAO. With Anthem, we know nothing about the factions, conflicts, characters, worlds, history, technology etc. But yet people want to act like this will be a standard Bioware SP experience.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 19, 2018 17:58:05 GMT
Or you could just wait and see the product. Crazy idea, I know. Actually with Anthem whats there to see? All indicators point to this being an attempt by EA to grab in the Destiny crowd....a game/genre that I do not like. This is far from your typical Bioware gamw where it is SP focused and companion focused. Anthem is MP focused and group play focused....far from the Bioware standard. For many people like myself, there isnt a reason to wait and see. If I know that I do not like mayo and pickles on my burger, I do not need to "try it" to know that I wont like it. The problem is using your analogy we don't even know if they are putting mayo and pickles on your burger, you are just assuming they will be. The argument you are making here are identical to the ones people were making about The Old Republic as well, if you want to say because they are comparing it to Destiny you don't have interest that is one thing and I am okay with that, but you are making claims BioWare has not made themselves and making your decision based on that.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 19, 2018 21:34:19 GMT
Actually with Anthem whats there to see? All indicators point to this being an attempt by EA to grab in the Destiny crowd....a game/genre that I do not like. This is far from your typical Bioware gamw where it is SP focused and companion focused. Anthem is MP focused and group play focused....far from the Bioware standard. For many people like myself, there isnt a reason to wait and see. If I know that I do not like mayo and pickles on my burger, I do not need to "try it" to know that I wont like it. The problem is using your analogy we don't even know if they are putting mayo and pickles on your burger, you are just assuming they will be. The argument you are making here are identical to the ones people were making about The Old Republic as well, if you want to say because they are comparing it to Destiny you don't have interest that is one thing and I am okay with that, but you are making claims BioWare has not made themselves and making your decision based on that. No, I already know that "mayo and pickles is going to be on the burger" It is clear that Anthem will be MP focused and it is clear that Anthem will be group focused. Unless E3 2018 shows otherwise, there isnt anything that is indicating that Anthem will be SP focused and companion focused like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KOTOR, and Jade Empire. Bioware could ease these fears but they choose not to cause they know Anthem is MP focused. CDPR eased the fears that Cyberpunk will be MP focused. Yes, they confirmed that there will be MP elements to CP2077, but at the core it will be a SP experience like Witcher 3. All while Bioware has failed to do the same. When will Bioware come out and say that while Anthem has MP elements, at the core it remains a SP game? kotaku.com/cd-projekt-red-says-cyberpunk-2077-will-be-no-bullshit-1820586229
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 19, 2018 23:31:50 GMT
The problem is using your analogy we don't even know if they are putting mayo and pickles on your burger, you are just assuming they will be. The argument you are making here are identical to the ones people were making about The Old Republic as well, if you want to say because they are comparing it to Destiny you don't have interest that is one thing and I am okay with that, but you are making claims BioWare has not made themselves and making your decision based on that. No, I already know that "mayo and pickles is going to be on the burger" It is clear that Anthem will be MP focused and it is clear that Anthem will be group focused. Unless E3 2018 shows otherwise, there isnt anything that is indicating that Anthem will be SP focused and companion focused like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KOTOR, and Jade Empire. Bioware could ease these fears but they choose not to cause they know Anthem is MP focused. CDPR eased the fears that Cyberpunk will be MP focused. Yes, they confirmed that there will be MP elements to CP2077, but at the core it will be a SP experience like Witcher 3. All while Bioware has failed to do the same. When will Bioware come out and say that while Anthem has MP elements, at the core it remains a SP game? kotaku.com/cd-projekt-red-says-cyberpunk-2077-will-be-no-bullshit-1820586229 One thing about CDPR is that their games are your money's worth, because you're paying a premium price for a premium game. I'm more looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077 rather than Anthem, but if Anthem came out good and no micro transactions then there's hope for BioWare yet.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 19, 2018 23:41:33 GMT
No, I already know that "mayo and pickles is going to be on the burger" It is clear that Anthem will be MP focused and it is clear that Anthem will be group focused. Unless E3 2018 shows otherwise, there isnt anything that is indicating that Anthem will be SP focused and companion focused like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KOTOR, and Jade Empire. Bioware could ease these fears but they choose not to cause they know Anthem is MP focused. CDPR eased the fears that Cyberpunk will be MP focused. Yes, they confirmed that there will be MP elements to CP2077, but at the core it will be a SP experience like Witcher 3. All while Bioware has failed to do the same. When will Bioware come out and say that while Anthem has MP elements, at the core it remains a SP game? kotaku.com/cd-projekt-red-says-cyberpunk-2077-will-be-no-bullshit-1820586229 One thing about CDPR is that their games are your money's worth, because you're paying a premium price for a premium game. I'm more looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077 rather than Anthem, but if Anthem came out good and no micro transactions then there's hope for BioWare yet. My point is that CDPR at least is doing a better job at communicating what CP2077 is whereas it appears Bioware is afraid to communicate what Anthem truely is.
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