The litmus test

You say you don't have that kind of investment yet even the concept of someone trying to change your mind gets you upset and annoyed if not out right angry. When merely the concept of something upsets you I think it is a valid interpenetration that you have a personal investment in your own opinions and they should be treated as gospel truth.  That is the source of the amusement. The sheer unrelenting contradiction on display by saying one thing then doing another. All while it seems you are unaware that you are doing it.

You do not grow as a person, you do not have your world view expanded on if you don't like or ever want your opinions and ideas challenged.  That is why I have no problem with people taking an electron microscope to my opinions and supporting arguments. That challenging of my opinions and ideas forces me to deal with the fact my opinion isn't the only one. It makes me question is my conclusions are good ones or if they are flawed by an idea or concept I over looked or didn't give fully impact of.

I don't expect a formal debate or have one side concede to me. How ever I don't accept the concept that an opinion is valid simply because it is an opinion. That logic is a pandora's box. Because it puts the most well reasoned and thought out opinions on the same level as the most inane opinion someone can come up with on the same level. And gives them full justification to complain when you question and call them out on it.  For example if someone says the Catalyst's solution is wrong but then uses every example that only exist because of the Catalyst solutions. That is a pretty inane opinion. But point that out to them and they get indignant because it is questioning their opinion.  Everyone will have an opinion but an opinion is only valid if you can support it with reasonable and well thought out supporting arguments.

It would be one thing if theses sort of things never had any effect. But games, movies and TV shows are all effected by this. DC vs Marvel movie franchise show this wonderfully. If you apply the same level of criticism towards any given marvel movie as is thrown towards any given DC movie they are both equally terrible for very similar reasons. But due to the opinions being spouted by people that basically boil down to well I don't like this movie because I don't like this movie. DC which previously was attempting to be different from Marvel and create their own path and their own interpretation of the DC heroes created a separate but equal set up with Marvel.  They have been slowly changing DC to now be nothing more then a clone of Marvel.

Mass Effect Andromeda is another great example. The raging complaints by people who's opinions seem to buckle under the same level of scrutiny they seem to give the writing of ME 3 resulted in BioWare not wanting to touch ME 3 with a 50 foot pole. The end result was BioWare ripping a galaxy size hole in the story line to force in the ability to get to Andromeda. Suddenly a private venture was able to raise enough capital to build massive ships that seem to dwarf the Destiny Ascension the largest warship in the galaxy.  They key limitation in FTL travel is suddenly removed. They apparently mastered the ability to preserve a living body for 600 year travel. The result of all of these technical advancements makes the entire events of ME 3 laughably stupid.  If you think the way TIM is handled in ME 3 was stupid before the fact he cares about human dominance and the ability to control the Reapers. But didn't take advantage of stasis technology to preserve himself and enough genetic stock on some back water hidden planet while the Reapers harvest the galaxy. Letting them emerge after the harvest with the technological advantage over the younger races and a good 50,000 years to study Reaper tech to perfect controlling them. This doesn't just make TIM a bad character due to writing it makes him a complete and total moron who had the simple solution in his grasp but went the complete opposite way for no other reason then to be an idiot.


All this effect because enough people complained. And their complains are not based on well reasoned supporting arguments. But cherry picked details and personal interpretations that have nothing to support them other then they choose it to be interpreted that way.

The biggest problem I see when debating the endings (and the reason why I also tend not to take debates about it too seriously) is because there are not many definite facts about it. Most of it is speculation (for everyone (tm) ) and interpretation.
Take synthesis for example. On the one hand, it's shown as a happy ending over all, where everyone is happy and together and all is good. But is that all that's happening or just all that is shown to us? That's a matter of interpretation.
The control ending. Some people see it working out nicely, others ask the question how this would work in the long run, how the Shepard AI would step into inevitable conflicts without oppressive force? We don't know, the game doesn't tell us.
Destroy: How painful was that rebuilding process that is shown. What about the longer term future? Was the Catalyst right that the troubles will return eventually?
Every single ending is shown as "the right one" and the happy one in the EC, where it doesn't really make that much sense for any of them (see my post from 2 pages back on this). So if someone prefers one of them, they only need to point out the logical flaws that should prevent the happy ending in the other two. So does the next guy with a different opinion and the arguments start.
Add to that that there are different ways to determine which ending should be chosen. Most people argue based on what the aftermath is/may be, others argue from the perspective that Shepard cannot know the aftermath when they choose, so they'll say you need to argue from Shep's point of view when he meets the catalyst. And so on and so on.

There are really barely any facts to argue about the ending, just suppositions, interpretations, personal preferences and opinions. The only time I'd consider an opinion on the ending as not valid is if it's directly contradicted by something that is actually specifically said in the game but I barely see those anymore as most people who are still in the debate after all this time seem to be very familiar with the material. Now, that doesn't mean the discussion is not interesting or not worthwhile but I tend to agree that it is healthier to take a somewhat lighthearted approach when talking about it. Especially after 6 years.

[FYI, I read your post but don't like excessive quoting so I've limited it.]

You say that but somehow or other you, more than anyone else, somehow ends up engaged in off-topic arguments with a wide range of posters.  Which is to say, these other posters only have these off-topic discussions with you rather than with others.  I mean, I'm sure we're all just terribly opinionated and close-minded people who all think the same.  Or not.  For example, themikefest and Link both hold, in some cases, considerably different opinions that myself.  Neither of them have ever gone off the topic with me.  I can therefore conclude that, while we may not agree on a number of things, that has never moved into personal attacks.

Now, if you were to look through the "What did you do today in ME?" thread you'd realize I play the MET quite often.  I also play MEA, though less so, primarily because I don't believe we're ever going to get more content for it, be it DLC or a second game.  My point here is that my posting is often done in the form of role play.  I have fun with it in ways I've never had with any other RPG I've ever played, before or since.  By which I mean the trilogy in its entirety.  Does it have flaws?  Obviously.  Find a game that doesn't.  Yet, I continue to play and I don't get to the end of ME3 and groan, saying how terrible it is that I have to deal with this ending.  It's just not what happens.  My RP is colored by the opinions of me as a person but so what?  If I don't want to choose Synthesis (I did once) or Control or Refusal (never picked either), that's my right.  If you want to know what actually pisses me off it's the lack of m/m content in ME1 and ME2, plus Kaidan barely having any presence in ME2 but Liara is your best friend no matter what choices you make in dealing with her.  That's what annoys me.  Fortunately, a mod maker has fixed this so that I can get what I want in that area.  Endings?  Minor stuff, except when engaging in debate with you.  This should give you a better idea of what I really care about and what makes me tick.  For my Destroy choice, yes, I'm sad that the geth and EDI die (yes, I consider them alive) at the end.  I simply find any ending in which the Reapers survive to be one I don't like.

My real reasons for liking Destroy are twofold: 1) I hate the Reapers with a passion and want them dead, and 2) I want Shepard to get a happily-ever-after with Kaidan.  The other stuff I throw in during heated discussions is less relevant to me than these two reasons.

Do not compare hate for morality or rationality.  "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind " - Gandhi (possibly). Nazi's were pretty damned hated after WW2 and for good reason but countries still utilized their scientists and the advancements they made bettered the world as a whole to greater or lesser extents.

There are no happy endings with war. That is a key theme of ME 3.  While down played to keep a lower rating it is all around people dying and losing loved ones. People being permanently effected by the war. You have the Asari talking to her Turian husband about being deployed hoping he will stay in a non combat zone, the alliance woman requesting a transfer to a Reaper fighting unit so she doesn't have to fight cerberus due to her brother being tricked to join it before the Reaper invasion in the docking area. In the refugee area you see the impact of the war as the Turian doctors mention how over loaded and short on medical supplies are and the memorial wall that shows the countless loved ones lost by the people living there. In the shopping area you can deliver the message from that one Krogan Char that dies hoping that his death will protect his love and their unborn child.  In the Presidium area you have the mini quest to find out about the guy's son if he died or not because his squad mates can't look at him in the eye and tell him. The old lady who continually tries to find out information about her child who is either senile or in complete denial over their death. Based on the clerks statement that makes it seem like she has been there multiple times. As well as the Asari trying to move custody of her child to someone else because her bond mate's parents are xenophobic racists who as she states in game would rather welcome Cerberus then an asari/human off spring.  To the hospital were you can listen to the PTSD Asari huntress who in a moment of sheer self preservation shot and killed an unarmed and innocent little girl. So effected by those events if you authorize her to have a gun she kills herself due to not being able to deal with those events that took place.

And even smaller stuff that is easier to miss like if you spared the guy from Jack's loyalty mission there will be a news report about him sacrifcing himself by holding off reaper troops while a shuttle full of children escape. About how Kal Reggar if he survives Tali's loyalty mission dies protecting a communication outpost with a suit breach until Krogan heavy troops can reach it to push the Reaper troops back.  Even the mission in ME3 are all about sacrificing lives for the greater good. Be it individuals in the case of Legion or Mordin to entire groups like the Krogan, Rachni or Geth/Quarians.  Nothing gained is without a cost. That is why all endings (maybe not refuse) emphasis the sacrifice it took to achieve what happened. And why the breath scene is the single most retarded moment that ever is or ever will exist in a video game.  Put int he game to be an even worse pandering fan service by BioWare. Even worse then if BioWare replaced every single female model with Miranda's and only had the camera pointing at their breasts or ass any time you get within render distance of them.  They could add a religious mode that instead of homosexual relationships they denounce and burn Kaiden and Taylor at the stake for their sinful sexual desires. Combining them wouldn't even touch the bottom toe of the fan pandering the breath scene.

*sigh* i was never talking about DDOS attacks to begin with, you're the one who keeps taking it there. i'm talking about turning the mass relay network into what is basically a linked transmitter array (like as in a radio telescope array or farm) that basically turns the entire galaxy into an FLT transmitter dish thanks to the reaper's relays. this isn't about flooding a network with garbage data to slow it down, this is more akin to a boat load of lightning strikes taking out a bunch of servers do to a massive power surge.

---edit 
or have you not been paying attention this whole time. 

---edit again
i'm talking about transmitters, transmissions, and receivers/antennas. and how these systems interact.

---edit once more
i also seem to recall you stating my description of reaper nanites to be an analogue to blood or blood cells, or words to that effect... though i can't seem to find that post. well, if my memory is actually correct, and that was said. i hate to say it, but your conclusion is wrong. at best, i was using reaper nanites as an analogue for a form of retrovirus potentially used for genetic/cellular tailoring.

last time i'm discussing this. as you seem to not pay attention. at all.
1st, i talked about overpowering the reaper control signal by pouring an exponential (or beyond exponential) amount of power into it. using the mass relay network as a transmitter array & power source. i hypothesized that the reapers would need a means to accept said signal, especially at range. if the signal is some form of direct mind control, and if there is a receiver of some kind for it, it's likely attached to the nervous system, or the brain. now, if a signal receiver tunes in on a signal that powerful when it's not designed to handle it, i figured it might overload violently, causing damage to the nervous system or brain. that was the entire point i was making this whole time.

2nd, yes, i was working under the assumption that nanites were everywhere on/in a reaper, as i figured at least they had some repair function, otherwise just using all those nanites for nothing more than assimilation is a waste. also, i never said the nanites had receivers themselves, i actually said... to me it would make sense for the nanites to have receivers embedded in them, if for nothing else then remote reprogramming, and if they had receivers they might be acting as the receivers for the control signal themselves, or words to that effect. furthermore, that doesn't make them an analogue for blood, nor blood cells. more akin to a retrovirus. a retrovirus isn't blood, nor blood cells, nor could it be confused with either. (and to me this proves you're nothing but a troll who tries to speak with authority regarding subjects they know nothing about, and as i might be lacking in knowledge regarding transmitters, receivers, and the transmissions they carry, i do know a bit about biology, chemistry, and chemical/biochemical engineering. and what you're attempting to discus here, you'd have learned about in high-school level biology class, and it didn't seem to take, at all)

3rd, i didn't say there'd be no consequences to nuking the reaper signal like that, i don't know if the signal would effect the receivers tuned into the reaper signal itself, or if it would hit all bands/"frequencies", etc. i'm not even sure if the reaper signal functions like standard ftl communication technology. i figured if it did, cerberus wouldn't have been alone is discovering the control signal, but like i said i wasn't sure either way.

4th, i hypothesized that the receivers would explode from not being able to handle the modified signal strength, and your assertion that things only explode when their designed to is idiotic at best. sure you can't get say... a solid metal i-beam to explode by itself, but your assertion is still total bs.

in conclusion...
  
you should have stayed in a subject you know i knew nothing about, or at the very least, it was a mistake to start discussing other topics without testing the water first. as the shoe has dropped, and i've seen your true colors. you're a fraud, trying to throw your weight around in at least one subject you know nothing about (that i know of), if you did it once, you likely have been doing it this whole time. as such, i'm disregarding all your technical "know-how", and filing everything you mentioned into forget. good day, i'm done.
 

And you just described a DDOS attack. In which you over whelm a signal receiver with data to cause it to fail due to it being over whelmed.  Though in your case you use energy as a catch all term for over loading the Reaper signal and receiver. Your set up would work to disable the control of the Reaper troops like Husks and Muraders. But wouldn't effect the Reapers themselves because why would they have that directly connected to their equivlent of a nervous system? Your thinking to much in organic terms not enough in synthetic terms.  The Reaper signal would be no more different then my remote control to my TV.  Even if you made it so I could no longer change the channel with my remote the TV it self would remain working.


Or they are just preprogamed to do a set task at the time they are created. Rather similar to parts of our own body. For example if someone has a damaged spinal cord you can't simply inject liver cells into the spinal cord to repair it. Because they are specially created and function based on a preset preprogamed behavior. Which is why stem cells has such potential. Inject them into a spine and they become spinal cord cells. Inject them into a damaged liver and they become healthy liver cells.

Even a virus has no external access. We can't simply program a virus to act differently unless we physically get in there and start manually changing stuff. Vaccinations are based on chemically or genetically weakening the virus of choice into a form that poses no threat. Thus allowing our body's to learn how to fight and kill a version that is harmless to the majority of people who aren't immune deficient.

Again your thoughts seem to be focusing more on the organic aspect rather then the synthetic aspect of the Reapers and their possible construction and maintenance.

Which would only effect the Reaper troops not the Reapers themselves. They are not slaved to the signal and only use it to control the troops and possibly to communicate.


You couldn't make my router explode simply by sending a lot of signal traffic towards it. If you could make stuff explode just by over loading the signal receiver don't you think some bored jackass on the internet would have caused massive nation wide power outages by now?  Caused a nuclear reactor to explode into an atomic hell fire spreading radiation over hundreds of miles as the radioactive material gets cause in the wind. Why have modern cars with computers that control every aspect of the car not simply exploded yet?

Your over all point seems to be the same plot as Cars 2 only swapping a few things around.



Irony is you keep talking organic and not synthetic. Making you exactly the same as you complain I am. You address everything from an organic human body aspect but don't seem to take any account into the synthetic computer aspect that is also part of the Reapers.  You quote basic biology but you don't quote basic computer science.  I'm fine if you are done talking to me because you have shown you don't know what your talking about.

such as?

Here are two of my posts about the topic:

bsn.boards.net/thread/364/why-work-repost

bsn.boards.net/post/133404/thread

The threads containing these posts have more relevant information that might be of interest in the context.

Irony

And you can damage the server if you surge enough information.  The difference is a computer server can have redundancies and back ups that prevent or limit damage done to the server. The human body lacks the redundancies and backups.  Hell I have a surge protector that my laptop is plugged into to protect it from a power surge.  We do not know the specific configuration of the Reapers but ME 2 shows a proto Reaper and a fully formed Reaper and they are more technological then organic. The problem with your examples is the focus on the organic aspect rather then the technical aspect.  There is no reason that any neural net they have isn't protected by every access point by triple if not more redundancies designed to protect it and all systems. After all it's core purpose is a repository of information for the races harvested in a cycle.

The problem I see is invisible and you are both focusing to much on the organic part then the technical part. You are drawing to similar parallels to our physical structure and not enough to a computer's. As BS and out of nowhere as Sovereign's  death is in ME 1. The surge was a powerful one that shut down all systems. With a decent argument to be put forth that the overload that was caused when the Saren husk was killed was the Citadel power being surged up into the Reaper. Which would be capable of overloading all it's systems before being blown up by Joker.

Invisible actually directly mentioned me not knowing high school biology. Which again not really relevant to super advanced technological eldritch horrors that have existed longer then humanity's entire evolutionary line.