BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed

Iakus
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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 2, 2018 21:03:20 GMT Hanako Ikezawa, Nightscrawl, and 1 more like this

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Post by Iakus on Apr 2, 2018 21:03:20 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 20:22:52 GMT MediocreOgre said:

Apr 2, 2018 20:11:40 GMT rras1994 said:

EA has had the Sims since the beginning so it's hard to know which came first - but I agree MEA wasn't great at it, but then if I'm honest I don't think the romances in general were that much better (it really needed more time in the cooking pot so to speak even if I liked the game) and the Trans one was awkward as hell. I don't think in general the Mass Effect franchise has ever been as good at being as diverse as Dragon Age either, it's something they really need to work on. I have faith in Dragon Age but not much in the Mass Effect franchise for it either. So basically we need the DA team influencing everyone

Mark Darrah's already started with being Executive Producer for Anthem

Well the op post does say that romances are expensive, and so with that MEA makes some sense as Cora and some of the other romances seem to have been invested with more money. Yet, at the release of MEA you had the dismal state of the Gil romance and the m/m version of Reyes. So you can clearly tell resources were prioritized. Hence my distrust as the panel made clear romances cost a whole lot. Animations cost a whole lot. So that kind of means Cora’s sex scene cost a whole lot and might of come at the expense of say Gil’s non face scanned basically CC face. So, again, I can’t be too reassured by that panel as Anthem stands in the way of DA4 as much as the ghost of MEA.

Cora's AND Peebee's

Seriously, why does Bioware now think that a romance HAS to come with a graphic sex scene?

You should never preach harder than you entertain

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 2, 2018 21:05:51 GMT

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Post by river82 on Apr 2, 2018 21:05:51 GMT

It's a tad annoying that core parts of the story aren't implemented because of time, but romances are implemented despite being non-essential and costing a shit-ton of money. E.g Corypheus was underdeveloped due to time constraints making him a crappy villain, but at least the romances are top notch, because that's what's really important ...

Last Edit: Apr 2, 2018 21:06:14 GMT by river82

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 2, 2018 21:21:30 GMT vertigomez, Catilina, and 12 more like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 2, 2018 21:21:30 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 21:05:51 GMT river82 said:

It's a tad annoying that core parts of the story aren't implemented because of time, but romances are implemented despite being non-essential and costing a shit-ton of money. E.g Corypheus was underdeveloped due to time constraints making him a crappy villain, but at least the romances are top notch, because that's what's really important ...

Well frankly, what sets Dragon Age aside from other WRPGs is that it's so character driven, and part of that is romances, as well as inclusivity. Their fantasy world isn't particularly any more mind-blowing than anything else on the market, neither is their gameplay. What sets them aside is what they bring to the table in terms of characters, and your ability in creating a bond with them.

Of course, Dragon Age should aim to be more well-rounded as a game of the WRPG genre, but they have something great with characters and romances, so yes, they are very important, and is part of the reason it stands out from the rest of it's competitors.

Last Edit: Apr 2, 2018 21:21:45 GMT by witchcocktor

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 2, 2018 21:29:41 GMT

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Post by river82 on Apr 2, 2018 21:29:41 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 21:21:30 GMT witchcocktor said:

Well frankly, what sets Dragon Age aside from other WRPGs is that it's so character driven, and part of that is romances, as well as inclusivity. Their fantasy world isn't particularly any more mind-blowing than anything else on the market, neither is their gameplay. What sets them aside is what they bring to the table in terms of characters, and your ability in creating a bond with them.

Of course, Dragon Age should aim to be more well-rounded as a game of the WRPG genre, but they have something great with characters and romances, so yes, they are very important, and is part of the reason it stands out from the rest of it's competitors.

Fair enough.

PS: Character driven is a fancy term that means "events are driven by characters and their choices" as opposed to plot driven which means "events are driven by external events". DA2 was character driven, pretty much every other game Bioware's made has been plot driven

Last Edit: Apr 2, 2018 21:33:59 GMT by river82

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 1:36:41 GMT Iakus, phoray, and 1 more like this

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Post by ahglock on Apr 3, 2018 1:36:41 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 21:03:20 GMT Iakus said:

Apr 2, 2018 20:22:52 GMT MediocreOgre said:

Well the op post does say that romances are expensive, and so with that MEA makes some sense as Cora and some of the other romances seem to have been invested with more money. Yet, at the release of MEA you had the dismal state of the Gil romance and the m/m version of Reyes. So you can clearly tell resources were prioritized. Hence my distrust as the panel made clear romances cost a whole lot. Animations cost a whole lot. So that kind of means Cora’s sex scene cost a whole lot and might of come at the expense of say Gil’s non face scanned basically CC face. So, again, I can’t be too reassured by that panel as Anthem stands in the way of DA4 as much as the ghost of MEA.

Cora's AND Peebee's

Seriously, why does Bioware now think that a romance HAS to come with a graphic sex scene?

God, I wish they'd go back to fade to black.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 1:45:10 GMT lilyenachaos, Kymira, and 4 more like this

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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 3, 2018 1:45:10 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 1:39:53 GMT ahglock said:

God, I wish they'd go back to fade to black.

I'd prefer if all sex scenes were FTB. I was totally fine with both Dorian's and Gil's* scenes. There is post-sex stuff that makes it clear they just had sex, so I think that's fine. I'm happy to let my imagination -- and my headcanon -- do the rest.

* Gil's scene in MEA, and everyone else who didn't have a full cinematic, only looks bad in comparison to Cora and Peebee's, since it then becomes glaringly obvious who their target audience was and for whom they find it more valuable to spend resources. You can also see this in the fact that Peebee's f/f scene is just a reuse of the m/f scene.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 1:45:52 GMT by Nightscrawl

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 1:58:15 GMT via mobile

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Post by phoray on Apr 3, 2018 1:58:15 GMT

Yep! I like thw pre and the post sex bits, Don't want any of the middle bits, that's supposed to be where imagination kicks in.

Vegan, Year 1 of Med School. Zevran, Fenris, Cullen, and Thane.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 3:00:10 GMT ahglock likes this

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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 3, 2018 3:00:10 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 1:36:41 GMT ahglock said:

God, I wish they'd go back to fade to black.

Given the existence of pornhub, spending precious game budget dollars depicting sex is pretty dumb, to say the least. But so is fade to black, that's just lazy. Film has come up with a number of low-budget ways to deal with the sex act without getting the censors all hot and bothered, just use one of them. I'm kind of nostalgic for the old fireworks climax, myself.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 3:00:42 GMT by PapaCharlie9

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 4:26:02 GMT Catilina and LogicGunn like this

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Post by vertigomez on Apr 3, 2018 4:26:02 GMT

*Gaider wanted Zevran to be gay only, but the company made him be bisexual because they believed that gay men were the smallest percentage of players

Woah, this is new! A lot of people accuse Zevran of being some kind of half-baked bisexual because of the way his sexuality was expressed in-game... the overt preference for women, the constant checking in with the (assumed male) player ("would you be offended if I said I fancied you?" etc.) It's interesting that this kind of clumsy implementation could be the result of Gaider having to write him as bisexual when he originally wanted to write him as gay. Food for thought, anyway.

Also:

*Sera would definitely twerk

Excuse me I've got to go romance a couple of blonde elves immediately. :dumb:

If that bint ruins our honeymoon, I will wear her Qun for a boot!
Let's wrap it up, love.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT vertigomez and Catilina like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 4:26:02 GMT vertigomez said:

*Gaider wanted Zevran to be gay only, but the company made him be bisexual because they believed that gay men were the smallest percentage of players

Woah, this is new! A lot of people accuse Zevran of being some kind of half-baked bisexual because of the way his sexuality was expressed in-game... the overt preference for women, the constant checking in with the (assumed male) player ("would you be offended if I said I fancied you?" etc.) It's interesting that this kind of clumsy implementation could be the result of Gaider having to write him as bisexual when he originally wanted to write him as gay. Food for thought, anyway.

I'm thinking the same, but it also could be that he had to write a character within the constraints given to him, and it was less about his influence but BWs influence. Making sure straight men don't get triggered and tucking away the male homosexuality is still a pretty big thing in entertainment, not to mention years and years back.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 7:03:49 GMT by witchcocktor

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:08:12 GMT

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Post by shechinah on Apr 3, 2018 7:08:12 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT witchcocktor said:

Apr 3, 2018 4:26:02 GMT vertigomez said:

...

I'm thinking the same, but it also could be that he had to write a character within the constraints given to him, and it was less about his influence but BWs influence. Making sure straight men don't get triggered and tucking away the male homosexuality is still a pretty big thing in entertainment, not to mention years and years back.

Which is why it baffles me that some people believed and still believe the rumor that Miguel and Tulio from the Road to El Dorado was meant to be a gay couple before Chel was introduced.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:34:26 GMT

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Post by Croatsky on Apr 3, 2018 7:34:26 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 19:46:37 GMT MediocreOgre said:

Apr 2, 2018 19:32:48 GMT @chauncey said:

This is good to know. If EA saved Bioware then they're not that bad.

Yeah it is heartening to know EA seems supportive of BW and in particular their writers.

But, the phrasing that when BW went to EA about characters like Krem and EA’s response was concern that they should “do it right” is kind of troubling because we are assuming they mean represent a ftm person in a “good” way when they could be more concerned with them being represented in a way that is safe to the “majority” of gamers and not in presenting LGBTQ people in ways that are satisfying to LGBTQ people. And after MEA and the backlash BW received I would still be skepticle that what EA thinks is the right way to represent LGBTQ people is really about LGBTQ representation for the sake of telling interesting, realistic, human, affective stories and not because EA has done the blood calculus and determined the formulaic right way to do it to appease lgbtq gamers while catering to non lgbtq gamers.

But I do think this is fairly good news. Just good news that should be tempered by what happened in MEA.

I'm sorry, but gamers are not even a class of people. It is a subculture based on a hobby. And even then, when did BioWare poorly represented gamers? Only few times did BioWare mentioned gamers and gaming culture, and it was mainly humorous but not mocking way. Cause, you know, most of BioWare devs are gamers too?

Also there is no formulaic way to appease LGBT folk, like you already pointed out backlash ME:A got. Which BioWare later fixed with minor dialogue editing for Hainly Abrams and recorded new lines and animations for gay romance for male Ryder and Jaal. So first one was an honest mistake at editing part, while other overlooked to give more then two gay men romances( it was impossible to get achievement of three different romances if you played exclusively gay Ryder, unlike with straight male and female Ryder and lesbian Ryder).

Also what's with "appeasing LGBT gamers while catering to non-LGBT gamers" part? Are you saying BioWare is catering to homophobes, transgender denialists? To people who want to pretend whole LGBT people do not exist, therefor everyone should be assumed as cisgendered heterosexuals? I mean, what do you mean by this?

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:39:23 GMT

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Post by Croatsky on Apr 3, 2018 7:39:23 GMT

Apr 2, 2018 21:03:20 GMT Iakus said:

Cora's AND Peebee's

Seriously, why does Bioware now think that a romance HAS to come with a graphic sex scene?

Uuuh, people were demanding that since ME1 and were rather upset when ME2 went more PG13 route.

So fans demanded it and BioWare provided, well mainly for straight males.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:42:58 GMT Catilina likes this

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Post by vertigomez on Apr 3, 2018 7:42:58 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT witchcocktor said:

Apr 3, 2018 4:26:02 GMT vertigomez said:

Woah, this is new! A lot of people accuse Zevran of being some kind of half-baked bisexual because of the way his sexuality was expressed in-game... the overt preference for women, the constant checking in with the (assumed male) player ("would you be offended if I said I fancied you?" etc.) It's interesting that this kind of clumsy implementation could be the result of Gaider having to write him as bisexual when he originally wanted to write him as gay. Food for thought, anyway.

I'm thinking the same, but it also could be that he had to write a character within the constraints given to him, and it was less about his influence but BWs influence. Making sure straight men don't get triggered and tucking away the male homosexuality is still a pretty big thing in entertainment, not to mention years and years back.

Oh, I don't doubt that. I'm just wondering what his own thought process was (beyond being excited about writing a m/m romance - I remember him saying that he was pretty stoked and that when he was working on NWN he never dreamed it would be possible). And I'm kind of curious how things would've turned out if Zevran was gay. 🤔

If that bint ruins our honeymoon, I will wear her Qun for a boot!
Let's wrap it up, love.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:45:53 GMT

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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Apr 3, 2018 7:45:53 GMT

Hm, maybe this is also the reason why ME2 is like it is, a shallow rpg compared to its predecessor, with corridors and mainly dealing with fast daddy issues as main gameplay missions :hue:

As DA2 was so rushed too it seems.. this.. clears.. it.. up.. (I like dots)

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 7:58:12 GMT vertigomez and Catilina like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 7:58:12 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 7:42:58 GMT vertigomez said:

Apr 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT witchcocktor said:

I'm thinking the same, but it also could be that he had to write a character within the constraints given to him, and it was less about his influence but BWs influence. Making sure straight men don't get triggered and tucking away the male homosexuality is still a pretty big thing in entertainment, not to mention years and years back.

Oh, I don't doubt that. I'm just wondering what his own thought process was (beyond being excited about writing a m/m romance - I remember him saying that he was pretty stoked and that when he was working on NWN he never dreamed it would be possible). And I'm kind of curious how things would've turned out if Zevran was gay. 🤔

Definitely can imagine him being defeated at that point, yeah.

Sadly, this is just another chapter for the archives of BW mysteries that we might never get clarification on. And, maybe that's for the best. Hopefully the future is full of gay male elves.

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 9:51:44 GMT vertigomez, Catilina, and 2 more like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 9:51:44 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 9:43:26 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 3:03:29 GMT PapaCharlie9 said:

Given the existence of pornhub, spending precious game budget dollars depicting sex is pretty dumb, to say the least.

I understand the overall sentiment, but you are underestimating the value of emotional connection.

Sure, anyone can go watch porn online, but in that case it's a purely physical thing, you have an itch and you are scratching it.
On the other hand, when you have characters that you are invested in emotionally, a sex scene can be more than just porn.

IMO it all boils down to:

A. There's nothing wrong with sex or depiction of sex, on the contrary, it can be fun (for most people who play those games anyway, it wouldn't be there otherwise).

B. Those cut-scenes require a lot of resources, which in turn takes from other things, especially when a company like Bioware goes for a "full house" in terms of romance variety and numbers,
which in turn leads to something like the handling of sex-scenes in ME:A, which resulted in self-righteous anger from some people about the fact that Bioware chose to invest more in the depiction of the most popular options.

Considering the above, I believe that it's probably beneficial for Bioware to simply move back to FTB or indeed use other low-cost techniques.

Quality romance related cut-scenes are much more easily feasible in games with limited romance options and a set protagonist.

Self-righteous huh? I mean, it's probably really fun to be at the receiving end of the content (I'm going to make this assumption about you because I have a hard time believing otherwise) and be super critical of those who whine about not getting the same content as you do, but have some empathy. And it wasn't just the sex scenes, they completely dropped the ball in a lot of other aspects when it came to romances and equal distribution.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 9:53:01 GMT by witchcocktor

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 10:02:43 GMT Catilina and carsomyr like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 10:02:43 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 9:56:41 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 9:51:44 GMT witchcocktor said:

Self-righteous huh? I mean, it's probably really fun to be at the receiving end of the content and be super critical of those who are treated unfairly, but have some empathy. And it wasn't just the sex scenes, they completely dropped the ball in a lot of other aspects when it came to romances and equal distribution.

Why should there be equal distribution when the number of fans interested in some of the content is relatively low (to say the least)? A video game is a product, and like other products it's all about supply and demand.

I have a particular taste as well, doesn't mean that games are going to be designed according to my exacting specifications.

Well if it's a product, why can they pussydick around and create OBVIOUSLY inferior content for the '' relatively low '' portion of the players?

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 10:10:33 GMT Catilina and carsomyr like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 10:10:33 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 10:05:06 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 10:02:43 GMT witchcocktor said:

Well if it's a product, why can they pussydick around and create OBVIOUSLY inferior content for the '' relatively low '' portion of the players?

Because that's how supply and demand works.

Supply and demand doesn't give you a fastpass to create low quality content. Besides, BW's product is as much their game as is their image as a company, which has been a VERY vocal supporter of the LGBT community.

Also, from the same interview

'' Interestingly enough and according to analytics, more players had female romances with Leliana (19% of players) than played rogues at all (16% of players) ''

Because you are such a supporter of supply and demand, you probably agree that they should remove rouges instead of Leliana's female romance if they were short on cash for instance, hmh?

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 10:31:02 GMT vertigomez, Catilina, and 2 more like this

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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 3, 2018 10:31:02 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 10:20:23 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 10:10:33 GMT witchcocktor said:

Supply and demand doesn't give you a fastpass to create low quality content.

I actually agree, and I think you misunderstood what I meant.

The thing is, I'd describe quite a lot of ME:A as "low quality content", and when working with limited resources there's always a process that's somewhat similar to a triage,
so yes, if you have content that's likely to only interest a low percentage of the players, said content is less likely to receive the same attention and resources other content with a much wider appeal will get.

Anyway, this isn't the topic of the thread, and our opinions and priorities are obviously different, so I'll agree to disagree.

I think what we can agree that ME:A is a shitshow. But, if you are making the conscious decision to give less amount of romances to one portion of the playerbase because of supply and demand, you have to have the integrity and the know-how to at least make those romances count towards something, and be up to par to what other people have. If it comes down to '' not as much content, and not as much quality in the content that does exist '' it just begs the question, why the hell are you doing it to begin with?

Furthermore, while I'm not saying that I deserve content because I'm an unrepresented oppressed minority, you don't deserve content because you are the majority. Not all games are directed towards the majority, not all franchises handcuff themselves to the majority, and some take those risks because they want to and they have a passion for representing minorities and giving them the content they do not get elsewhere. I understand I'm creating a very idealized, romantic view on making games, art and entertainment in general, but games aren't always just a product, entertainment will never be just a product.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 13:18:22 GMT by witchcocktor

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 12:58:41 GMT

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Post by Iakus on Apr 3, 2018 12:58:41 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 7:39:23 GMT Croatsky said:

Apr 2, 2018 21:03:20 GMT Iakus said:

Cora's AND Peebee's

Seriously, why does Bioware now think that a romance HAS to come with a graphic sex scene?

Uuuh, people were demanding that since ME1 and were rather upset when ME2 went more PG13 route.

So fans demanded it and BioWare provided, well mainly for straight males.

I wish fans would use more traditional methods to find their porn...

You should never preach harder than you entertain

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BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 13:11:33 GMT Hanako Ikezawa, phoray, and 1 more like this

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Post by Iakus on Apr 3, 2018 13:11:33 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 9:43:26 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 3:03:29 GMT PapaCharlie9 said:

Given the existence of pornhub, spending precious game budget dollars depicting sex is pretty dumb, to say the least.

I understand the overall sentiment, but you are underestimating the value of emotional connection.

Sure, anyone can go watch porn online, but in that case it's a purely physical thing, you have an itch and you are scratching it.
On the other hand, when you have characters that you are invested in emotionally, a sex scene can be more than just porn.

IMO it all boils down to:

A. There's nothing wrong with sex or depiction of sex, on the contrary, it can be fun (for most people who play those games anyway, it wouldn't be there otherwise).

B. Those cut-scenes require a lot of resources, which in turn takes from other things, especially when a company like Bioware goes for a "full house" in terms of romance variety and numbers,
which in turn leads to something like the handling of sex-scenes in ME:A, which resulted in self-righteous anger from some people about the fact that Bioware chose to invest more in the depiction of the most popular options.

Considering the above, I believe that it's probably beneficial for Bioware to simply move back to FTB or indeed use other low-cost techniques.

Quality romance related cut-scenes are much more easily feasible in games with limited romance options and a set protagonist.

Given the option I'll take a fade to black scene and a protagonist I can define for myself over T&A and a set character any day. The emotional connection doesn't come just from bedroom scenes, it comes from the sum of all the interactions: personal quests, "lovetalk" conversations, regular conversations. A simple hug can be far more emotional than any sex scene. This is why romances lately have been feeling really shallow. Friendzoned for virtually the whole game. A few flirts, then hop into bed. Until she showed me her garden on Eos, I could hardly tell I was romancing Cora. And that's why I really liked how in DAI, I could simply kiss Josephine under the gazebo, and sit by the fire with her at the end of her romance.

Last Edit: Apr 3, 2018 13:12:59 GMT by Iakus

You should never preach harder than you entertain

vertigomez
N6

Friend of Red Jenny

Posts: 5,281 Likes: 18,922

BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 13:23:56 GMT Catilina, Kymira, and 4 more like this

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Post by vertigomez on Apr 3, 2018 13:23:56 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 9:43:26 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 3:03:29 GMT PapaCharlie9 said:

Given the existence of pornhub, spending precious game budget dollars depicting sex is pretty dumb, to say the least.

I understand the overall sentiment, but you are underestimating the value of emotional connection.

Sure, anyone can go watch porn online, but in that case it's a purely physical thing, you have an itch and you are scratching it.
On the other hand, when you have characters that you are invested in emotionally, a sex scene can be more than just porn.

IMO it all boils down to:

A. There's nothing wrong with sex or depiction of sex, on the contrary, it can be fun (for most people who play those games anyway, it wouldn't be there otherwise).

B. Those cut-scenes require a lot of resources, which in turn takes from other things, especially when a company like Bioware goes for a "full house" in terms of romance variety and numbers,
which in turn leads to something like the handling of sex-scenes in ME:A, which resulted in self-righteous anger from some people about the fact that Bioware chose to invest more in the depiction of the most popular options.

Considering the above, I believe that it's probably beneficial for Bioware to simply move back to FTB or indeed use other low-cost techniques.

Quality romance related cut-scenes are much more easily feasible in games with limited romance options and a set protagonist.

When it comes to "investing more in the depiction of the most popular options", I think Gaider said it best:

We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don't see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what's everyone's fuss all about? That's the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

My preference is that everybody gets a couple of quality romances, with the amount of content more or less equally distributed. I'm fine with fade-to-black for everyone if the alternative is straight guys getting saucy nekkid romance scenes and everybody else getting the second-rate shoddy version or nothing at all.

If that bint ruins our honeymoon, I will wear her Qun for a boot!
Let's wrap it up, love.

wickedcool
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Posts: 754 Likes: 525

BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 13:38:30 GMT via mobile

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Post by wickedcool on Apr 3, 2018 13:38:30 GMT

I cant understand the rushing excuse

So da2 rushed?

I love bioware and all the da franchises but they have a lot of excuses

I blame management/ea

Da2-really bad marketing campaign (when your marketing song is this is the new bleep)

Dai-new engine and the awful mistake of forcing this to work on ps3/360. Going back and search how discs were scratching etc

Andromeda-you could see the train wreck coming from space

It gets so bad that they close the forums

Anthem-not seeing a ton of good publicity for this. Hype train right now is red dead redemption, cyberpunk 2077 etc

Da4-I can’t figure out the strategy. We get a strange picture possibly related to solas (is that 2 years ago?). Then we get confirmation from a guest writer, one developer gives us updates on her dao/da2 playthroughs(she’s awesome and would have loved a YouTube let’s play based on that with her commentary/thoughts on the da world-would have been gold). Then we get how about a tactics game followed by we confirm nothing I quit( more or less the order of things

There’s or there was a tone of fu to customers that I didn’t see from witcher 3 people. I get why bethesda can do it because they can based on fan base/success but bioware should be looking at the culture of being more fan friendly based on the how close they were to shutting down

Iakus
N7

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,291 Likes: 50,647

BioWare would have gone under if not for EA, part of the reason DA2 was rushed Apr 3, 2018 14:09:22 GMT

Quote

Post by Iakus on Apr 3, 2018 14:09:22 GMT

Apr 3, 2018 14:03:15 GMT @tzeenchianapostrophe said:

Apr 3, 2018 13:31:08 GMT Iakus said:

Given the option I'll take a fade to black scene and a protagonist I can define for myself over T&A and a set character any day. The emotional connection doesn't come just from bedroom scenes, it comes from the sum of all the interactions: personal quests, "lovetalk" conversations, regular conversations. A simple hug can be far more emotional than any sex scene. This is why romances lately have been feeling really shallow. Friendzoned for virtually the whole game. A few flirts, then hop into bed. Until she showed me her garden on Eos, I could hardly tell I was romancing Cora. And that's why I really liked how in DAI, I could simply kiss Josephine under the gazebo, and sit by the fire with her at the end of her romance.

Ideally, a sex cut-scene and something like what you are describing shouldn't be mutually exclusive. Both can add to the immersion of the romance arc. Ideally, I'd like to see both.

Ideally, sure. Or it should be an optional scene.

But I have yet to see a video game sex scene (or indeed, most movie or tv sex scenes) where it isn't' simply a tawdry example of exhibitionism. I can think up more more romantic scenes in my own mind.

You should never preach harder than you entertain

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