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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 21, 2018 21:09:46 GMT
I'd be in favor of automatic progression of companions be on by default, but if and only if there is a cheap and easy respec mechanism, like DAI's Amulet of Tacticians Renewal. Don't even think of putting that mechanism behind any kind of level or progression lock. The moment I can tweak builds for myself, let me reset what the game auto-leveled on companions. And, of course, turn auto-leveling off or on at will. Yepper, totally agree. I don't mind a bit of hand-holding for those who are intimidated by character leveling, or just don't do it for whatever reason. But also ensure that there is an easy way for players that do to have that customization and detail (no hoop-jumping, please). I always respec everyone as soon as I'm able. Sometimes, it's not even about the skills they have, but the order that they have them. I might give Wynne those earth spells eventually, but I don't want those first few points wasted on them when they would better be spent on other support spells. I use a mod for this in DAO. In DA2, I use a mod so that they aren't auto-leveled on joining the party so that's 10g less I have to spend in Act 1 (where money is important).
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Post by Sokemis on Apr 22, 2018 4:21:50 GMT
For me, "melee mage" would be a mage that is well suited for close-combat fighting. - Less "squishy" than average mage - more likely to wear light/medium/rogue style armor than mage robes - Able to fight non-magically with their staffs (similar to the DA2 style), those staff blades aren't just for show... - Spell skill set more focused on close-quarter fighting & defense instead of long-range attacks, and quicker spells that are more focused a single opponent or two rather than more time consuming and larger AOE spells. If AOE spells are used, they're more like mind blast or telekinetic burst or cone-style AOE- coming from the mage and affecting enemies trying to surround/flank them. Defensive spells such as some sort of magical barrier or rock armor... Ideally it's a class that has a fighting style that feels unique to them, and not just an armored tank that tosses the occasional fireball. Pretty much everything Hawke was doing in the Destiny trailer This
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2018 8:50:31 GMT
They could learn from this game when it comes to sword and magic, and this should've been on Inquisition.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2018 8:56:41 GMT
I choose hibrid. I think in a warrior that can cast spells, but not the same powerful spells that any normal Mage can cast. I think in the Paladin/templar style but more focused on being ofenssive. Because templars/paladins use magic but it is a defensive/healing magic. Melee mage would be the opossite. Paladin/Templar >>> Defensive, minor or focused healing, and anti magic spells. Melee Mage >>> Ofensive, focused on weapons and self strenght spells. Also give elemental powers to all the allied weapons. Spellthief/Rogue >>> Spells focused on individual speed, cloak, paralisis, slow etc., curse, and draining magic at melee range. Dragon Age should give players to create their own builds for designing their play styles.
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Post by mmoblitz on Apr 24, 2018 12:15:02 GMT
Given that we're not just talking about range, I suppose for me 'melee mage' would be any mage that uses what looks to be a conventional, close-range weapon and channels their magical powers through it or weaves in magic into their fighting style. (.. .Of course, I shall never cease lobbying for magic archer ) I would love to see this introduced in DA. Something similar to a Mystic Archer found in Rift would be fantastic. I when I hear melee mage I cringe, but I would think it's a mage that fights in close quarters and uses magic and a staff for offense/defense. Like someone else mentioned, Hawk in the trailer from DA2.
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Post by Vall on Apr 29, 2018 3:59:03 GMT
I when I hear melee mage I cringe But why? The fighting style is no more impractical than double dagger rogue...Sure, they have the ability to fight at range but guess what...so does rogue.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 29, 2018 5:00:34 GMT
So I keep seeing this term (or similar) being referenced in some recent gameplay based threads and I'm curious what the community actual envisions when they think about the concept of a 'melee mage'. Feel free to just direct reference another game if that's easier to describe, I've pretty much played everything in the HD space over the last 10-15 years And if you're wondering why I'm asking ... no reason ... I chose "A Mage that casts spells that focus on close-range" in the poll. What I mean by a melee mage is an Avatar-style bender or Dr. Strange from the MCU, that also wields small weapons (magically generated or otherwise) to hit things with in close quarters. I typically think of a more rogue-like movement style b/c of magical enhancement to the body like upped speed or agility, or b/c of increased mobility via magic. The occasional fireball is not out of the question, but it would have decreased range, and might even be changed into a flame burst or touch attack, due to the lack of a staff to focus magic through. Or the fireball's cost would just be increased in comparison to other mages, again due to the lack of traditional staff.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Apr 29, 2018 21:05:12 GMT
So I keep seeing this term (or similar) being referenced in some recent gameplay based threads and I'm curious what the community actual envisions when they think about the concept of a 'melee mage'. Feel free to just direct reference another game if that's easier to describe, I've pretty much played everything in the HD space over the last 10-15 years And if you're wondering why I'm asking ... no reason ... I chose "A Mage that casts spells that focus on close-range" in the poll. What I mean by a melee mage is an Avatar-style bender or Dr. Strange from the MCU, that also wields small weapons (magically generated or otherwise) to hit things with in close quarters. I typically think of a more rogue-like movement style b/c of magical enhancement to the body like upped speed or agility, or b/c of increased mobility via magic. The occasional fireball is not out of the question, but it would have decreased range, and might even be changed into a flame burst or touch attack, due to the lack of a staff to focus magic through. Or the fireball's cost would just be increased in comparison to other mages, again due to the lack of traditional staff. This is pretty close to what comes to my mind as well but it was very clear with this poll (which was about the same results as when I polled people in the office) that this term is used more frequently to describe a generic mage who also swings a weapon. SO, I had to come up with a different term to describe the above
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 30, 2018 3:23:43 GMT
I chose "A Mage that casts spells that focus on close-range" in the poll. What I mean by a melee mage is an Avatar-style bender or Dr. Strange from the MCU, that also wields small weapons (magically generated or otherwise) to hit things with in close quarters. I typically think of a more rogue-like movement style b/c of magical enhancement to the body like upped speed or agility, or b/c of increased mobility via magic. The occasional fireball is not out of the question, but it would have decreased range, and might even be changed into a flame burst or touch attack, due to the lack of a staff to focus magic through. Or the fireball's cost would just be increased in comparison to other mages, again due to the lack of traditional staff. This is pretty close to what comes to my mind as well but it was very clear with this poll (which was about the same results as when I polled people in the office) that this term is used more frequently to describe a generic mage who also swings a weapon. SO, I had to come up with a different term to describe the above So, what term did you come up with, then?
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Post by wavebend on May 1, 2018 1:31:09 GMT
This is pretty close to what comes to my mind as well but it was very clear with this poll (which was about the same results as when I polled people in the office) that this term is used more frequently to describe a generic mage who also swings a weapon. SO, I had to come up with a different term to describe the above So, what term did you come up with, then? Jedi
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 1, 2018 7:35:47 GMT
This is pretty close to what comes to my mind as well but it was very clear with this poll (which was about the same results as when I polled people in the office) that this term is used more frequently to describe a generic mage who also swings a weapon. SO, I had to come up with a different term to describe the above I think most people merely interpreted this question as something like: "what is the kind of mage that goes into melee that you like most". The terms are fairly arbitrary after all, there's no inherent difference between terms like: "Melee mage" (I've heard this term here for the first time), Battle-mage, Knight-enchanter, etc. Practically every franchise has its own take on a mage that isn't a pure glass-canon and can also fight in melee to some degree. A recurring theme with all of these concepts is increased survive-ability, since a glass-canon in a flimsy robe isn't likely to survive for long when people swing sharpened sticks around him. I think that in terms of balance, if we boil it down to what the melee-mage concept means in the context of the traditional trinity of fighter-caster-rouge, is that such a mage represents a mid-way point between a mage and a fighter for example, though perhaps less in the sense that the mage splits his time between magic and sword-swinging - and more that his magic expresses itself differently, but that's purely flavor-wise. Battle-mage conjures up images of (physical and magical) sword-wielding mages. The magic and the blade aren't synergized really, its just a mage that also has a sword and non-squishy armor. Like you said, a mage-fighter. What I think of when I think "melee mage" is a mage that primarily uses magic for their melee. Hence choosing the "close quarters spells" option (and including self-enhancement spells in that list). Like a weapon and non-squishy armor is there, but its secondary. And the result is more of a mage-rogue b/c rogues are fast and agile and that's what the self-enhancements would result in to me. Just saying, there is a difference in terms to me. Like someone said before, Tempest is the current DA spec that's closest to what I think of when I think about how to start with a melee mage. Just take away stealth (maybe?), add in fade step, call them spells instead of using flasks, and add the rest of the spell schools like entropy, creation school auras, and other close quarters/single target/touch spells offensive spells and player targeted defensive spells. As for weapons, I'm partial to batons (b/c they remind me of a staff split in half, I'm weird, and also kind of a Bobbi Morse fan), but any melee weapon would work, really, be it dual-weild, one-handed, or even possibly two-handed. But the weapon is there to be integrated into the magic attacks more than anything.
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Post by LukeBarrett on May 1, 2018 16:11:51 GMT
But that's about it, the term is still rather open-ended. Precisely. I was merely trying to convey a feel/playstyle when discussing something in a meeting BUT I realized later that when I said melee mage it was clearly far too ambiguous a term. The poll here (on BSN) was mostly a curiosity since my sample size is pretty small here So, what term did you come up with, then? I couldn't say, otherwise you'd have a clearer picture of what I may or may not have been doing and the corporate overlords might come and take me away
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Post by midnight tea on May 1, 2018 17:01:40 GMT
Someone invent a Super-Secret BSN Language To Talk About Super-Secret Stuff...
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 2, 2018 19:32:42 GMT
Someone invent a Super-Secret BSN Language To Talk About Super-Secret Stuff... One ninja emoji for "Yes", two for "No". And a Sten for "Definitely Not."
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3/26/17: Pathfound something
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 25, 2018 13:39:06 GMT
Personally love the Knight Enchanter specialization. Love love love
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Post by junker1990 on May 25, 2018 16:22:13 GMT
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Post by Lebanese Dude on May 27, 2018 13:27:44 GMT
MEA Power Vanguard basically.
Able to enter combat instantly? Check. (Charge) Powerful "magic" enhanced attacks? Check. (Biotic Punch/Asari Sword) AoE damage tools? Check. (Nova, Shockwave, Annihilation). Strong focus on control? Check. Best defense is a good offense? Check.
Knight enchanter focused too much on melee hits. Ideally the focus would shift a bit more to ability usage (like a Power Vanguard basically).
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:25:12 GMT
MEA Power Vanguard basically. Able to enter combat instantly? Check. (Charge) Powerful "magic" enhanced attacks? Check. (Biotic Punch/Asari Sword) AoE damage tools? Check. (Nova, Shockwave, Annihilation). Strong focus on control? Check. Best defense is a good offense? Check. Knight enchanter focused too much on melee hits. Ideally the focus would shift a bit more to ability usage (like a Power Vanguard basically). I like your idea, I loved playing Vanguards in ME. If the devs could come up with a way to make this type of character work in the DA world I would be all over it.
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3/26/17: Pathfound something
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sumerian Physics on May 28, 2018 17:36:36 GMT
MEA Power Vanguard basically. Able to enter combat instantly? Check. (Charge) Powerful "magic" enhanced attacks? Check. (Biotic Punch/Asari Sword) AoE damage tools? Check. (Nova, Shockwave, Annihilation). Strong focus on control? Check. Best defense is a good offense? Check. Knight enchanter focused too much on melee hits. Ideally the focus would shift a bit more to ability usage (like a Power Vanguard basically). I think it depends on how you play and how you build your mage outside of the KE specialization. Now that I've seen it laid out like so, my KE actually does play quite similarly to the Vanguard Able to enter combat instantly? Check. (Fade step: not as emphatic as Charge, but a good enough way to get right to the thick of it)Powerful magic enhanced attacks? Check. (Spirit Blade)AoE damage tools? Check. (Chain lightning, Immolate, Mark of the Rift)Strong focus on control? Check. (Disruption field, Wall of Fire)Best defense is a good offense? Check. And these only abilities from my current mage playthrough. You can be more storm, more winter heavy and get the same effect. <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="5.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62000000000012px; height: 5.240000000000009px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_62787236" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="5.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 5.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_66821729" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="5.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 5.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 201px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_64071880" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="5.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 5.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: 201px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_6737570" scrolling="no"></iframe> I think if your Knight Enchanter focuses too much on melee hits, it might just be down to your playing style or a consequence of your abilities progression prior to choosing the specialization. My Knight Enchanter is very ability heavy or at least just as ability heavy as the vanguards I played in Mass Effect. Which shouldn't be that surprising considering they are sibling games
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Post by Lebanese Dude on May 29, 2018 1:05:35 GMT
Sure but the AOE tools aren't really melee oriented they're just spells you cast. I'm not saying a Knight Enchanter can't cast spells, much like a Vanguard can go for traditionally Adept or even Tech spells. Nova is clearly meant to support a melee build. So does Charge, Annihilation, etc... most of the Biotics tree really as it's focused on control and force.
You can also build your entire toolkit around it and you are supported. You can't really say that about Knight Enchanter, which is typically forced to use melee hits to BE a knight enchanter, unlike Vanguard which doesn't make use of melee attacks unless they have no abilities up. Power Vanguards just cast spells in melee range, duck into cover if they get in trouble, and heavily make use of Force to keep themselves alive.
In other words, take the Force Mage utility of DA2, the Knight Enchanter of DAI, a few melee-based spells, and you have the perfect melee mage.
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Shiny, Let's be bad guys
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Post by lynx7386 on May 29, 2018 1:44:47 GMT
I really hated, loathed, even despised the knight enchanter from inquisition. I hated that they had to 'summon' a magical sword, rather than using real melee weaponry. I loved the origins take on the battlemage, using real weapons and armor, but it wasnt done very well in the end either.
What I envision when I think of a battlemage is someone who dons heavy armor and uses melee weapons (two handed or 1h, or even dual wield), and then uses magic to enhance melee combat. I think of things like encasing your weapon in elemental magic (fire, ice, lightning, etc.), energizing your armor for more defense or effects that retaliate at attackers (someone hits you with a melee attack and your armor fires back a lightning bolt for example), and beyond that having effects that surround the caster like a firestorm or frost nova to work against any enemies in melee range.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 29, 2018 8:14:16 GMT
I'm going with the first option. I can imagine a mage who, rather than have ranged attacks, instead uses magic to enhanced physical attributes, skills, and enchantments on weapons.
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Post by Awkward Octopus on May 29, 2018 21:51:15 GMT
When I see the term "melee mage," in most games I assume it's a hybrid class that uses abilities from a pure mage class and a melee class, with perhaps a few unique skills/traits/abilities/what-have-you of their own.
What I would like to see when I see the term isn't necessarily that, though. I mean, I tend to play these types of classes regardless, but I would really like to see more unique-unto-themselves melee/magic classes, or at least more variety/unusual versions to the hybrids. Like a rogue that can use a spell to recall knives after throwing them (perhaps not unlike KoA chakrams), or a gunslinger using enchanted bullets that cast spells, or tank class that, rather than soaking up damage with armor/hp, uses some kind of illusory or time-related magic to trick or dodge.
I loved the heck out of Blue Mage when I used to play FFXI (way back before they un-capped Chains of Promathia...). Unique method of learning spells (no longer buying scrolls, but literally learning monster abilities by observing them in combat - which I LOVED doing - SO MUCH. I miss it, gosh). The DD spells were focused on close-range, high-damage, quick-cast, but with a smaller mana pool to work with. Interesting ability to "equip" spells and certain combinations gave certain passives. Also was the first class able to skill-chain alone (a task usually requiring at least 2 players and careful timing). This might be my favorite "melee mage" I've ever played.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 2, 2018 9:05:26 GMT
BioWare should learn from God of War. I like the way how they designed magic with melee attacks, and I think BioWare should learn from this and come up ways to create a combat design that is satisfying and addictive.
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Post by Vall on Jun 2, 2018 9:34:25 GMT
BioWare should learn from God of War. I like the way how they designed magic with melee attacks, and I think BioWare should learn from this and come up ways to create a combat design that is satisfying and addictive. I'm personally not a fan of spells cast through weapons, that's not a mage for me, that's just a warrior with magical weaponry.
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