guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Apr 15, 2018 15:02:45 GMT
Then you meet the 3 Aholes in charge and then you faceplam wondering "how the F have these jokers run the galaxy for 1,000s of years?!" I take it politics aren’t your strong suit? Them not believing you while frustating from our perspective is realistic. They are basically stand-ins for the council aren't they?, only much less interesting even for a recycled idea.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 15, 2018 15:36:40 GMT
So let me get this straight...the guy has something negative to say about andromeda and before watching the video because it happens to be long it is ok to insult him and dismiss him? Yeah no, he makes valid points. The arcon is a flat uninteresting villain with poor motives. The choices in the game are mostly irrelevant to the overarching plot. The kett are poor villains compared to the reapers. Ryder is a poor hero compared to Shepard and he is far less interesting and far less satisfying in a lot of his/her responses especially when trying to be intimidating or a badass (sometimes I feel like Ryder is a younger, hipster millennial version of Shepard). All in all the writing is not nearly as good as it was in the trilogy and likely this is because Bioware's C team worked on the game rather than the A team. Sure the guy went on a LONG detailed and sometimes logorroic rant with a flair for the dramatic but he is not wrong, this game was subpar and it has been established that it DID kill Mass Effect for the foreseeable future. So what should we do? Stop pointing out the obvious and pretend it's all ok? Why? So Bioware can start believing it actually is and that it was just a vocal minority who disliked their work this time (again)? No, until they make up for it they should be reminded at every turn. Please, people were bashing the game even before it came out.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 15, 2018 15:45:12 GMT
He wants to kill you and get the meridian, but he is going counter to his directive in what otherwise seems to be a very indoctrinated group. His obsession of the remnant over his duty to uplift all the life in this cluster made him a bit more interesting. That's more interesting than I'm Saren and I'm mind controlled. Sure the Kett are grunts but what were the Geth in ME1, they were just grunts. And the reapers, oh look rogue AI I've never heard that story before. And yeah ME1 had more lore to deliver, but it should be that way. You are getting introduced into a established setting where humans are newish but have been part of it for decades. This was a story of just discovering things so the lore was sparser you were discovering it, it just wasn't delivered in the intro and codex. I'm not saying it was perfect, it had plenty of flaws. Its story just wasn't substantively worse than any of the other games on their own. I disagree of course, but I do respect your opinion. Oh they know... I think BioWare (proper) are internally more painfully self-aware and critical of MEA's flaws than they'd ever care to admit publically which is why short of cancelling it... it was pushed out in march and buried as soon as they'd put out the dumpster fires to begin with - a logical move in order to contain the foreseeable damage to their IP and reputation. Not exactly the actions of a proud studio/publisher. The only reason why any publisher would impose a genuine hiatus on a property is so that the press and mainstream consumers will have forgotten how poor the last one was by the time the next one is released. Having said that I can't think of any EA property in recent memory that has ever come back from a situation like this. Yeah, that and they probably at the moment have no idea whatsoever about what to do with the franchise. Where to go? how do we fix the issues we've created? plus Bioware of old is no more, it's a bit of a scramble. They got to put their shit together first, too many new people are in, and too many old people left. If they were to start another ME as it is, it'll be Andromeda all over again, but worse.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 15, 2018 15:55:50 GMT
Please, people were bashing the game even before it came out. True that, however you can't disregard people's opinions just because prior to release a group was salty about the game not being ME4 and not having good animations and what not. I for one, was super excited about the new ME, I stayed cautiously positive all the way until they released the game. When I finally got my hands on it, the game personally wasn't up for expectations, especially after devs and so called "insiders" praised it so much.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 16:16:31 GMT
Please, people were bashing the game even before it came out. True that, however you can't disregard people's opinions just because prior to release a group was salty about the game not being ME4 and not having good animations and what not. I for one, was super excited about the new ME, I stayed cautiously positive all the way until they released the game. When I finally got my hands on it, the game personally wasn't up for expectations, especially after devs and so called "insiders" praised it so much. No but many of the complaints were baseless. Not all but many. For example before release people bitched that they better include their favorite races. They did and then people bitched that they did just that.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 15, 2018 16:38:42 GMT
Then you meet the 3 Aholes in charge and then you faceplam wondering "how the F have these jokers run the galaxy for 1,000s of years?!" I take it politics aren’t your strong suit? Them not believing you while frustating from our perspective is realistic. I can't stand politics, bunch of two faced Aholes. And no, its got nothing to do with about believing you about the Reapers, it's to do with the fact they have sat on their asses while scum like the Batarians go around enslaving people across the galaxy. And let's not forget what they did to the Krogan and the Quarians.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2018 17:12:08 GMT
ME1 was more than a decent story, it was an atmosphere. An experience. You feel like "this isn't earth" the moment you set foot on the Citadel. Its overwhelming and every little detail from the menus to the sound effects and chimes in the menus, it feels so futuristic and perfect. MEA isn't bad on those regards just extremely muted to the point where they're easily missable. I agree until you get to the copy pasted uncharted worlds, horrible combat and terrible UI. The rest is solid though. I disagree about MEA though I feel it has those exact same things you mentioned and not in a muted way. Well, MEA doesn't have uncharted worlds at all, and to me that's very disappointing given that we're the "pathfinder", the game was supposed to be about exploration etc. Too bad they went with this cheap Kett plot instead.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 17:19:56 GMT
I take it politics aren’t your strong suit? Them not believing you while frustating from our perspective is realistic. I can't stand politics, bunch of two faced Aholes. And no, its got nothing to do with about believing you about the Reapers, it's to do with the fact they have sat on their asses while scum like the Batarians go around enslaving people across the galaxy. And let's not forget what they did to the Krogan and the Quarians. Yup you paid no attention to the games at all.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 17:24:00 GMT
I agree until you get to the copy pasted uncharted worlds, horrible combat and terrible UI. The rest is solid though. I disagree about MEA though I feel it has those exact same things you mentioned and not in a muted way. Well, MEA doesn't have uncharted worlds at all, and to me that's very disappointing given that we're the "pathfinder", the game was supposed to be about exploration etc. Too bad they went with this cheap Kett plot instead. Um that’s exactly what EOS, Eladen, Habitat 7 are. Not to mention H407c and a few other side planets.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 15, 2018 17:25:10 GMT
I can't stand politics, bunch of two faced Aholes. And no, its got nothing to do with about believing you about the Reapers, it's to do with the fact they have sat on their asses while scum like the Batarians go around enslaving people across the galaxy. And let's not forget what they did to the Krogan and the Quarians. Yup you paid no attention to the games at all. Err, I did. And no matter what you say, I won't charge my view on the Council. So how about we agree to disagree?
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 17:28:20 GMT
Yup you paid no attention to the games at all. Err, I did. And no matter what you say, I won't charge my view on the Council. So how about we agree to disagree? Works for me.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 15, 2018 17:59:31 GMT
Err, I did. And no matter what you say, I won't charge my view on the Council. So how about we agree to disagree? Works for me. Good, because talking about those grox lovers leaves a foul taste in the mouth.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2018 18:10:56 GMT
Well, MEA doesn't have uncharted worlds at all, and to me that's very disappointing given that we're the "pathfinder", the game was supposed to be about exploration etc. Too bad they went with this cheap Kett plot instead. Um that’s exactly what EOS, Eladen, Habitat 7 are. Not to mention H407c and a few other side planets. Habitat 7 maybe, but it's locked out after prologue unfortunately. Other planets aren't exactly uncharted, there were already 2 outposts on Eos, Kadara seems to have more people that the Nexus, all Krogan already are on Elaaden etc. They aren't any more "uncharted" than Eden Prime. We don't even get to experience the first contact with an alien race, because when we get to Andromeda Angara already live among MW races on Kadara, everyone already knows about the Kett and Sloan has even defeated them. I think MEA would be way more interesting if human arc would get there right after the Nexus. We'd be the first ones to land on those planets, start the very first outposts, struggle with making things work, but seein the difference our actions make. The first Angara we would meet could be the roekaar and the Kett could be less aggresive in the beginning? So we wouldn't know right away who are the good guys and who are the evil baddies? Wasted potential...
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 18:29:08 GMT
Um that’s exactly what EOS, Eladen, Habitat 7 are. Not to mention H407c and a few other side planets. Habitat 7 maybe, but it's locked out after prologue unfortunately. Other planets aren't exactly uncharted, there were already 2 outposts on Eos, Kadara seems to have more people that the Nexus, all Krogan already are on Elaaden etc. They aren't any more "uncharted" than Eden Prime. We don't even get to experience the first contact with an alien race, because when we get to Andromeda Angara already live among MW races on Kadara, everyone already knows about the Kett and Sloan has even defeated them. I think MEA would be way more interesting if human arc would get there right after the Nexus. We'd be the first ones to land on those planets, start the very first outposts, struggle with making things work, but seein the difference our actions make. The first Angara we would meet could be the roekaar and the Kett could be less aggresive in the beginning? So we wouldn't know right away who are the good guys and who are the evil baddies? Wasted potential... Different situation though. All these planets were uncharted before leaving the MW and many of the uncharted worlds in ME had outposts on them. I didn’t mention Kadara, Havarl or Voeld because those planets were already Angaran.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 19:04:50 GMT
True that, however you can't disregard people's opinions just because prior to release a group was salty about the game not being ME4 and not having good animations and what not. I for one, was super excited about the new ME, I stayed cautiously positive all the way until they released the game. When I finally got my hands on it, the game personally wasn't up for expectations, especially after devs and so called "insiders" praised it so much. No but many of the complaints were baseless. Not all but many. For example before release people bitched that they better include their favorite races. They did and then people bitched that they did just that. Are you saying that the exactly same people who demanded certain races to be added, then later retracted, and criticized the very thing they had demanded? I find that hard to believe, unless by people you mean all people who dislike or criticized MEA. If you like or dislike the game, it is tempting to label all opposing views as a part group, and then dismiss this “group”, when they give out contradictory opinions. Ofc, there’s no unified group, but individuals with different preferences who happen to aggerate on certain issues but disperse on others. The fact that MEA is being criticized from both ends of the same issue, isn’t only a sign that you just cannot please people, but an inevitability when they made the decision to set the game in Andromeda galaxy. By that I mean, there’s two preferences: a) people who associate established race(s) as essential part of the ME universe and ME games, so to them ME game isn’t truly ME game without these races. B) people who prefer that ME games should consider and respect established lore and decisions, thus restricting choices and elements devs can utilize, and work in limits of that which has been said before. A and B don’t inherently contradict each other, but when you set the game in a location like Andromeda, then there’s contradiction. This conflict of preferences could’ve been avoided altogether, by setting the game in Milky Way. Instead we got Andromeda, and they did this halfway approach, by adding Krogans (violates preference B) but not adding Batarians, Qurians, Vorchas, Geths, Hanars, Voluses, Elcors, Drells (violates preference A). It’s not a deep philosophical insight to say that halfway solutions are often displeasing for everyone, who has a preference in either stance. Some people don’t particularly care about either of these too much, but I cannot really argue that either of these preferences would be somehow wrong or illegitimate (neither is a neutral or indifferent option). In general I don't like halfway solutions. And even if I prefer the option B over A (when they conflict), still I would have liked that they either give us the full fan service treatment and add all the races, and just fuck the established lore. Or stick by said established lore. I suppose there was at least some payoff from adding Krogans, because so many people seem to really like Drack, but in grand scheme of things it’s quite hollow, because the whole game was a half-baked mismatch of different conflicting themes, elements, designs, and styles. Hardly any pieces matched in the end. This probably wasn’t devs' intention, and I can understand that they are genuinely confused at the reactions, because I feel that it was their heartfelt intention to try to please everyone as much as possible, but in the end that was a huge part of the reason, why they ended up displeasing so many.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 15, 2018 19:15:07 GMT
Habitat 7 maybe, but it's locked out after prologue unfortunately. Other planets aren't exactly uncharted, there were already 2 outposts on Eos, Kadara seems to have more people that the Nexus, all Krogan already are on Elaaden etc. They aren't any more "uncharted" than Eden Prime. We don't even get to experience the first contact with an alien race, because when we get to Andromeda Angara already live among MW races on Kadara, everyone already knows about the Kett and Sloan has even defeated them. I think MEA would be way more interesting if human arc would get there right after the Nexus. We'd be the first ones to land on those planets, start the very first outposts, struggle with making things work, but seein the difference our actions make. The first Angara we would meet could be the roekaar and the Kett could be less aggresive in the beginning? So we wouldn't know right away who are the good guys and who are the evil baddies? Wasted potential... Different situation though. All these planets were uncharted before leaving the MW and many of the uncharted worlds in ME had outposts on them. I didn’t mention Kadara, Havarl or Voeld because those planets were already Angaran. In ME some had small outposts, some just had Thresher Maw's You probably know what I mean though, we just don't really get to be "the Pathfinder". As soon as we meet Angara there's barely anything else left to discover and it later turns out that they already know the exiles anyway.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 15, 2018 19:27:16 GMT
We should probably stay away from the phrase "uncharted world." Everything in both games was already charted by somebody, except Ilos and the Collector Base.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 15, 2018 19:29:15 GMT
By that I mean, there’s two preferences: a) people who associate established race(s) as essential part of the ME universe and ME games, so to them ME game isn’t truly ME game without these races. people who prefer that ME games should consider and respect established lore and decisions, thus restricting choices and elements devs can utilize, and work in limits of that which has been said before. A and B don’t inherently contradict each other, but when you set the game in a location like Andromeda, then there’s contradiction. This conflict of preferences could’ve been avoided altogether, by setting the game in Milky Way. Instead we got Andromeda, and they did this halfway approach, by adding Krogans (violates preference but not adding Batarians, Qurians, Vorchas, Geths, Hanars, Voluses, Elcors, Drells (violates preference A). It’s not a deep philosophical insight to say that halfway solutions are often displeasing for everyone, who has a preference in either stance. Some people don’t particularly care about either of these too much, but I cannot really argue that either of these preferences would be somehow wrong or illegitimate (neither is a neutral or indifferent option). How do the krogan violate preference B? You're declaring that without establishing it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 15, 2018 19:51:24 GMT
Um that’s exactly what EOS, Eladen, Habitat 7 are. Not to mention H407c and a few other side planets. Habitat 7 maybe, but it's locked out after prologue unfortunately. Other planets aren't exactly uncharted, there were already 2 outposts on Eos, Kadara seems to have more people that the Nexus, all Krogan already are on Elaaden etc. They aren't any more "uncharted" than Eden Prime. We don't even get to experience the first contact with an alien race, because when we get to Andromeda Angara already live among MW races on Kadara, everyone already knows about the Kett and Sloan has even defeated them. I think MEA would be way more interesting if human arc would get there right after the Nexus. We'd be the first ones to land on those planets, start the very first outposts, struggle with making things work, but seein the difference our actions make. The first Angara we would meet could be the roekaar and the Kett could be less aggresive in the beginning? So we wouldn't know right away who are the good guys and who are the evil baddies? Wasted potential... On that I agree. Us showing up a year after the nexus into a shit show had some political points that were mildly interesting, but it would have been more interesting to navigate them instead of just hearing about them. But really the bill of goods about what Andromeda was, was you being the pathfinder and exploring. And pretty much every place you went others had been before, and not just locals but people from the MW. We didn't really get first contact. The Kett we later learn use deception to get you to drop your guard and we could have experienced that instead of hearing about it after already determining they are an enemy. Us arriving a year later was a story mistake. That simple change could have turned an okay story into a good one.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 20:03:45 GMT
Different situation though. All these planets were uncharted before leaving the MW and many of the uncharted worlds in ME had outposts on them. I didn’t mention Kadara, Havarl or Voeld because those planets were already Angaran. In ME some had small outposts, some just had Thresher Maw's You probably know what I mean though, we just don't really get to be "the Pathfinder". As soon as we meet Angara there's barely anything else left to discover and it later turns out that they already know the exiles anyway. Eh I see your point. I didn’t mind what we got though.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 20:05:16 GMT
No but many of the complaints were baseless. Not all but many. For example before release people bitched that they better include their favorite races. They did and then people bitched that they did just that. Are you saying that the exactly same people who demanded certain races to be added, then later retracted, and criticized the very thing they had demanded? I find that hard to believe, unless by people you mean all people who dislike or criticized MEA. If you like or dislike the game, it is tempting to label all opposing views as a part group, and then dismiss this “group”, when they give out contradictory opinions. Ofc, there’s no unified group, but individuals with different preferences who happen to aggerate on certain issues but disperse on others. The fact that MEA is being criticized from both ends of the same issue, isn’t only a sign that you just cannot please people, but an inevitability when they made the decision to set the game in Andromeda galaxy. By that I mean, there’s two preferences: a) people who associate established race(s) as essential part of the ME universe and ME games, so to them ME game isn’t truly ME game without these races. people who prefer that ME games should consider and respect established lore and decisions, thus restricting choices and elements devs can utilize, and work in limits of that which has been said before. A and B don’t inherently contradict each other, but when you set the game in a location like Andromeda, then there’s contradiction. This conflict of preferences could’ve been avoided altogether, by setting the game in Milky Way. Instead we got Andromeda, and they did this halfway approach, by adding Krogans (violates preference but not adding Batarians, Qurians, Vorchas, Geths, Hanars, Voluses, Elcors, Drells (violates preference A). It’s not a deep philosophical insight to say that halfway solutions are often displeasing for everyone, who has a preference in either stance. Some people don’t particularly care about either of these too much, but I cannot really argue that either of these preferences would be somehow wrong or illegitimate (neither is a neutral or indifferent option). In general I don't like halfway solutions. And even if I prefer the option B over A (when they conflict), still I would have liked that they either give us the full fan service treatment and add all the races, and just fuck the established lore. Or stick by said established lore. I suppose there was at least some payoff from adding Krogans, because so many people seem to really like Drack, but in grand scheme of things it’s quite hollow, because the whole game was a half-baked mismatch of different conflicting themes, elements, designs, and styles. Hardly any pieces matched in the end. This probably wasn’t devs' intention, and I can understand that they are genuinely confused at the reactions, because I feel that it was their heartfelt intention to try to please everyone as much as possible, but in the end that was a huge part of the reason, why they ended up displeasing so many. More like they were simply damned if they do damned if they don’t. There was zero chance of pleasing everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 21:22:33 GMT
How do the krogan violate preference B? You're declaring that without establishing it. Fair enough, as I didn’t give any reasons for that. Honestly thought it was a noncontroversial opinion to say. I can see now that I was wrong. Here’s reasons why I think it conflicts with established lore or doesn’t fit to what was established in MET. First, when Andromeda initiative was launched, krogan were supposed to be basically sterile and dying race. So much of krogan themes, narratives and psyche dealt with this angst of being a dying breed, the last generations of once prolific species, but their own nature and history just didn’t fit well to the rest of the galaxy. The decision to cure the genophage or let them go extinction was the climax of this overarching narrative of three games. There was always this constant tension and nagging doubt that is the treatment worse than the disease, when aiding krogans. Even the Reaper invasion didn’t seem warrant unanimously agreed necessity to cure them. I find it odd and undermining of the established narrative*, that such achievement was done so easily and nonchalantly, and I really don’t see much reasons for them to do so. Unless the idea was trying to preserve as much as possible of the biodiversity of Milky Way. Naming ships Arks would suggest that, but then where are all the other races, if that was the motivation. Only in-game explanation I can think of is that the expedition needed muscle who are adaptable to hostile and alien environments, but I don’t find it compelling or harmonious with rest of the game. The initiative’s design pointed out non-military expedition, and themes of violent colonization and subjugating, warring and genociding Andromeda natives were absent. Secondly, vorcha and geth or some other AI race could fit the bill just as well, yet they were absent. Besides, vorcha would be much better in that task, because no genophage and they seem to have much less agency than krogans but are similarly warlike and resilient to harsh environments. Krogans had deep animosity at the time towards the Council races, and especially salarians and turians (half of the initiative). Also, they were believed to be species who had strong inherited tendencies towards: violence, domination, warlordism, infighting, clannishness, rebelliousness, and their economy seemed be mostly that of raubwirtschaft ("plunder economy" or "rapine economy", like Toynbee describes the Roman Empire). Also, these qualities were believed to be intensified at long space travels, i.e. long periods in confined spaces. Yes, there was the cryosleep, but it seems unreasonable gamble, because back in MW, there was no way to predict how long colonization of these worlds might take, and it’s reasonable assume that there’s high chance that they might be confined to Arks and Nexus for extended periods. Why choose sterile (I assume curing them took some resources and effort), belligerent race with chip on their shoulder for the rest of galaxy, with a history of large scale mutinies, to an expedition what is at verge of capabilities of MW races, with no previous history to predict its success or failure. Seems so unnecessary risk for such a leap of faith mission. *Yes there was ME1 with Virmire, and I’d agreed it was a bit hackneyed in very similar manner (the reasons for doing so were different though). It was there to rise stakes for Wrex storyline and give this melodramatic turning point for his story arc. I did rise eyebrow then, but ultimately it didn’t bother me that much, and it didn't even take me out of the moment back then, because I really liked the payoff. Wrex was such an interesting character and that scene and everything leading it was one of the highpoints of the game. Execution was good, so I deemed it to be worth of it. There also was a passable excuse in form of Reaper space magic. Much easier pill to shallow than the Benefactor with mysterious motives and origins, with seemingly infinite resources and power. The only reason for their addition in MEA seemed to be that krogans are interesting and fun race to have in the game. But so were so many other races.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2018 21:24:16 GMT
More like they were simply damned if they do damned if they don’t. There was zero chance of pleasing everyone. Yes, I think you are right. It seems that decision to go with Andromeda setting brought a lot of lose-lose situations for BioWare. Don’t think it was worth of it, because there was the option to set game in MW.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 15, 2018 21:46:23 GMT
More like they were simply damned if they do damned if they don’t. There was zero chance of pleasing everyone. Yes, I think you are right. It seems that decision to go with Andromeda setting brought a lot of lose-lose situations for BioWare. Don’t think it was worth of it, because there was the option to set game in MW. Thing is that would have caused just a big of a problem. I’m glad they went this route instead of the other as a cannon ending would have not been a wise move.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 15, 2018 22:01:22 GMT
More like they were simply damned if they do damned if they don’t. There was zero chance of pleasing everyone. Yes, I think you are right. It seems that decision to go with Andromeda setting brought a lot of lose-lose situations for BioWare. Don’t think it was worth of it, because there was the option to set game in MW. That makes the assumption that there wouldn't have been problems with staying in The Milky Way and I think there easily could have been more, for what happened in the original trilogy to really how much new content was there for the game to develop to make an interesting game. Yes people keep talking about how there is so much of the Milky Way unexplored, but there is nothing saying the Council already explored the most of it or any areas that haven't been also wouldn't be that vastly different due to the Reapers plans. For if they left one species that somehow managed to stay hidden from The Reapers I think it would be far worse of an idea for me then The Kett. Not to mention the non-stop complaining about "I believe my Shepard lived and I want to play them".
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