Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Oct 24, 2016 19:30:25 GMT
No, I believe "dying" is quite literal. All that's left of Shepard is data. Memories and thoughts without any "human" context to them. The Shepalyst is a copy, lacking Shepard's connection to the galaxy he/she fought to protect, friendships, enemies, or emotions. For lack of a better term, it lacks Shepard's soul. This is no ghost in the machine. It's not even Tom Riddle's diary. If dying is literal, Shepard can't control the Reapers and that entire ending choice is nonsensical. Ding ding ding! Shepard, while dying, creates an AI, which "controls" the Reapers (as long as it doesn't adopt more Insane Troll Logic, but what are the odds of that happening twice in a ow with the same machine [ How about the writers credibility? hat they are saying is nonsense. Why do you think IT is so popular? The endings are so idiotic people are convinced that professional writers can't really write something that sucks this badly and there must be some hidden meaning, if only we go "DEEPER!" Take Cobb Shepard further into the depths of dreams and madness. But Shepard is clearly intended to die in Control. There is no breath scene. There is no Suddenly Psychic LI. Shepard's name is on the memorial wall.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 24, 2016 19:58:59 GMT
Ding ding ding! Shepard, while dying, creates an AI, which "controls" the Reapers (as long as it doesn't adopt more Insane Troll Logic, but what are the odds of that happening twice in a ow with the same machine Sorry, that won't fly. If you insist on being literal, then be literal. The holokid says " You will control us". Not "an AI based on you". You. Shepard. Also this: Shepard: But the Reapers will obey me? Holokid: Yes. Not, "No, they will obey an AI version of you". Just yes. How about the writers credibility? hat they are saying is nonsense. Why do you think IT is so popular? The endings are so idiotic people are convinced that professional writers can't really write something that sucks this badly and there must be some hidden meaning, if only we go "DEEPER!" Take Cobb Shepard further into the depths of dreams and madness. But Shepard is clearly intended to die in Control. There is no breath scene. There is no Suddenly Psychic LI. Shepard's name is on the memorial wall. Writer credibility is a separate issue. The "art" surrounding the holokid, it's "yo dawg" nonsense and Synthesis are problems. The choices themselves and the means by which they are enacted are not fundamentally flawed. But again, it's a separate issue from what we're discussing here. There is no breath scene because Shepard no longer needs to breathe. His name is on the wall because he won't be coming back. All true. He has a higher purpose now.
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Oct 24, 2016 20:15:39 GMT
No, I believe "dying" is quite literal. All that's left of Shepard is data. Memories and thoughts without any "human" context to them. The Shepalyst is a copy, lacking Shepard's connection to the galaxy he/she fought to protect, friendships, enemies, or emotions. For lack of a better term, it lacks Shepard's soul. This is no ghost in the machine. It's not even Tom Riddle's diary. If dying is literal, Shepard can't control the Reapers and that entire ending choice is nonsensical. While I'm sure you'd like to say that, that is contrary to the spirit of the endings, mired in bullshit "art" though they may be. It also destroys the holokid's credibility in what it says since what it says is nonsense. If what it says is nonsense, why should we believe that Shepard's dead? You can't have it both ways. The rest is unfounded. Sorry. WRT the bolded: ding ding ding. That's exactly the thing. "You will control us, but you will die." If Shepard is dead, (s)he can't control the Reapers. Some digital copy of Shepard's mind will control the Reapers. The Reapers only ever sold the illusion of control. They always have. They have never allowed anyone to control them. (((((Also, every indoctrinated being ever thought he or she was in control.))))) Also, I find it curious how you arrive at the conclusion. If the Reaper AI is telling nonsense, what's more likely? - He's selling nonsense. The illusion of control. - Shepard will somehow control the Reapers being not literally but figuratively dead? I can't even... wow. How do you see this before you? I can't even begin to fathom how this should work. What a bizarre conclusion to arrive at, especially when the other option is a zillion times more likely, since, you know, the Reapers have this reputation of brainwashing people into believing the most extraordinary things.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 24, 2016 21:40:47 GMT
WRT the bolded: ding ding ding. That's exactly the thing. "You will control us, but you will die." If Shepard is dead, (s)he can't control the Reapers. Some digital copy of Shepard's mind will control the Reapers. The Reapers only ever sold the illusion of control. They always have. They have never allowed anyone to control them. (((((Also, every indoctrinated being ever thought he or she was in control.))))) Also, I find it curious how you arrive at the conclusion. If the Reaper AI is telling nonsense, what's more likely? - He's selling nonsense. The illusion of control. - Shepard will somehow control the Reapers being not literally but figuratively dead? I can't even... wow. How do you see this before you? I can't even begin to fathom how this should work. What a bizarre conclusion to arrive at, especially when the other option is a zillion times more likely, since, you know, the Reapers have this reputation of brainwashing people into believing the most extraordinary things. The claim was that when the holokid said "you will die" it meant literally. I have shown that this is inconsistent. If you die you can't control anything. It didn't say "an AI based on you will control the Reapers". So you either take the holokid's word literally (all of them), or you don't. If you take them literally, they don't make sense. The correct answer of course is that Shepard doesn't die, "you will die" was meant metaphorically, and clarified by "you will lose all you have/connections to your own kind". Instead, he transcends into an entirely different being than what he or the holokid was. For details, check out my control thread. The rest of that is just general ending nonsense (which you have to ignore at some point if you want any meaningful discussion of the choices, which are not at teh core fundamentally flawed) or IT stuff which you can take.... here I guess...since this is the IT thread. Well, since I'm the one off topic, I shall depart.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Oct 24, 2016 21:51:52 GMT
Ding ding ding! Shepard, while dying, creates an AI, which "controls" the Reapers (as long as it doesn't adopt more Insane Troll Logic, but what are the odds of that happening twice in a ow with the same machine Sorry, that won't fly. If you insist on being literal, then be literal. The holokid says " You will control us". Not "an AI based on you". You. Shepard. Also this: Shepard: But the Reapers will obey me? Holokid: Yes. Not, "No, they will obey an AI version of you". Just yes. You realize this is coming from an AI that thinks mulching an entire species and pouring the resulting smoothie in to a Reaper shell is "helping them ascend", yes? They have some seriously f*cked up definitions of life and death. I'd say it's precisely the problem. Shepard dies, but somehow memory files turn Shepard into Shepthulhu? Uh-uh. Doesn't work that way. Transferring memories into another person just gets you another person with different memories. Or, in the case of an AI, something else. All along we've been shown that organics and synthetics think and process information differently. Heck even organics and other organics process information differently (see Mordin's explanation of how salarians process tings faster than humans in ME2) Look at the Catalyst, not understanding the lives it's been snuffing out for over a billion years. It thinks like a machine. And that's how the Shepalyst thinks. Not like a human being like Shepard. Because he's dead Because he's dead As a pile of dust by the control rods?
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Post by Iakus on Oct 24, 2016 21:55:20 GMT
The correct answer of course is that Shepard doesn't die, "you will die" was meant metaphorically, and clarified by "you will lose all you have/connections to your own kind". Instead, he transcends into an entirely different being than what he or the holokid was. For details, check out my control thread. You know what they's called? Dying. he becomes exactly what the holokid was. He replaces Starbrat. Just with a different mandate (for now) "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss"
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 24, 2016 21:58:15 GMT
You realize this is coming from an AI that thinks mulching an entire species and pouring the resulting smoothie in to a Reaper shell is "helping them ascend", yes? They have some seriously f*cked up definitions of life and death. No, the word you're looking for is "preserve". Ascending is what Shepard does in Control and sort of what everyone does in Synthesis.... I think. The rest of it is back to "lalalala" and as I said, this is off-topic. So we're done here.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 24, 2016 22:40:13 GMT
Shepard: They will obey me thing: Yes.
Shepard is no longer a me. The human known as Shepard is no longer organic. It is now a thing/it.
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Post by HYR on Oct 24, 2016 23:36:09 GMT
2) Mark Meer says he liked the Control ending, saying it was cool to see Shepard become a Reaper god. Why is this significant? If anyone would have seen the final script on ME3, it would be that guy (and Hale, ofc), and his words indicate that what we saw can be taken for its face-value. Most voice actors don't typically see a complete script, just their roles In fact that's kind of one of the things they're striking about right now. Of course, Shepard being the protagonist, you expect Meer and Hale would get the whole picture. But that's not necessarily true. Dialogue ends once you stop talking to the holokid and the stuff ITers go on (the textures of the liquified people totally resemble your squad! Or however that goes) has nothing to do with their lines. Note that Meer and Hale read the Catalyst's dialogue as well, which is heard as faint echoing in the background. IT'ers (at least some of them) feel that is an important point in favor of their theory. I believe that if there were some deeper meaning behind that, then it would be explained at least somewhat to the ones reading it so they can better deliver those lines. But yes, I admit to making an unsafe assumption here which you can write off as being just that. Then again, I would argue my conclusion is not as crazy/unsound as many that are argued and even believed in by those that subscribe to IT. So, HA! =P I know I had other very compelling points but I for the life of me cannot remember what they were right now. I guess it's for the best that I do not remember. It would be kinda sad if debunking some fan theory was that central to my life years later. :-?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 0:24:47 GMT
Shepard: They will obey me
thing: Yes. Shepard is no longer a me. The human known as Shepard is no longer organic. It is now a thing/it. Sorry, no - Only in the renegade version does the Catalyst indicate that Shepard would no longer be organic. This line is omitted from the paragon version... and it is logical to say that Bioware omitted that line intentionally from the paragon version to insert a difference; and there is a very important difference. In the paragon instance the game is not talking about an AI, but talking about the separation of the organic soul from the body... a concept that was introduced by Thane in ME2 when he talked about how his body could act to kill apart from his soul desiring to kill. The definition of "corporeal" is "of or relating to a person's body, especially as opposed to their spirit" (per Merriam-Webster) One's "spirit" is not mechanical or an AI... it is organic and, centuries before AIs existed, humans have believed in their "spirit" continuing after death in a form or place that made them unable to really connect with the living. That you want to stick with the purely secular interpretation is your business... but other people have every right to interpret that ending as Shepard becoming a "god" or "angel" or other form of "organic consciousness" with an ability to control or direct the Reapers for all eternity as he/she sees fit.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 25, 2016 1:06:31 GMT
Shepard: They will obey me
thing: Yes. Shepard is no longer a me. The human known as Shepard is no longer organic. It is now a thing/it. Sorry, no - Only in the renegade version does the Catalyst indicate that Shepard would no longer be organic. This line is omitted from the paragon version... and it is logical to say that Bioware omitted that line intentionally from the paragon version to insert a difference; and there is a very important difference. In the paragon instance the game is not talking about an AI, but talking about the separation of the organic soul from the body... a concept that was introduced by Thane in ME2 when he talked about how his body could act to kill apart from his soul desiring to kill. No? And yet you say that's what the thing says for renegade? I'll stick with what I posted. But I'm not worried about it since I always choose destroy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 1:17:19 GMT
Sorry, no - Only in the renegade version does the Catalyst indicate that Shepard would no longer be organic. This line is omitted from the paragon version... and it is logical to say that Bioware omitted that line intentionally from the paragon version to insert a difference; and there is a very important difference. In the paragon instance the game is not talking about an AI, but talking about the separation of the organic soul from the body... a concept that was introduced by Thane in ME2 when he talked about how his body could act to kill apart from his soul desiring to kill. No? And yet you say that's what the thing says for renegade? I'll stick with what I posted. But I'm not worried about it since I always choose destroy. The line stating that Shepard would no longer be organic is omitted IF Shepard is a paragon. If they wanted to imply an AI-like transformation for both paragon and renegade Shepards, that line would be there in both cases. It is not... so, for Paragon Shepard's, control does not mean becoming an AI... it is an organic transformation. Although both are control, they are, in fact, two different endings.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 25, 2016 1:21:39 GMT
Most voice actors don't typically see a complete script, just their roles In fact that's kind of one of the things they're striking about right now. Of course, Shepard being the protagonist, you expect Meer and Hale would get the whole picture. But that's not necessarily true. Dialogue ends once you stop talking to the holokid and the stuff ITers go on (the textures of the liquified people totally resemble your squad! Or however that goes) has nothing to do with their lines. Note that Meer and Hale read the Catalyst's dialogue as well, which is heard as faint echoing in the background. IT'ers (at least some of them) feel that is an important point in favor of their theory. I believe that if there were some deeper meaning behind that, then it would be explained at least somewhat to the ones reading it so they can better deliver those lines. But yes, I admit to making an unsafe assumption here which you can write off as being just that. Then again, I would argue my conclusion is not as crazy/unsound as many that are argued and even believed in by those that subscribe to IT. So, HA! =P I know I had other very compelling points but I for the life of me cannot remember what they were right now. I guess it's for the best that I do not remember. It would be kinda sad if debunking some fan theory was that central to my life years later. :-? I believe in a recent interview I saw with the lovely Jo Wyatt, one of the things she talked about was how little context she got for some of her scenes and how helpful getting the full picture would be to improving her work. I think this was in regards to TOR which is both Bioware (though a different studio) and from the perspective of a PC. I'm not entirely certain though. What's that, you think I should listen to that sweet voice- err interview again to confirm? I'd be happy to! Only because you insist though
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Post by themikefest on Oct 25, 2016 1:22:55 GMT
No? And yet you say that's what the thing says for renegade? I'll stick with what I posted. But I'm not worried about it since I always choose destroy. The line stating that Shepard would no longer be organic is omitted IF Shepard is a paragon. If they wanted to imply an AI-like transformation for both paragon and renegade Shepards, that line would be there in both cases. It is not... so, for Paragon Shepard's, control does not mean becoming an AI... it is an organic transformation. Although both are control, they are, in fact, two different endings. Good thing my Shepard chooses destroy. Paragon or renegade. The reapers are destroyed.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Oct 25, 2016 22:25:08 GMT
No? And yet you say that's what the thing says for renegade? I'll stick with what I posted. But I'm not worried about it since I always choose destroy. The line stating that Shepard would no longer be organic is omitted IF Shepard is a paragon. No. It isn't
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 0:39:03 GMT
The line stating that Shepard would no longer be organic is omitted IF Shepard is a paragon. No. It isn't Well, it wasn't there in my game... more than once - with different Paragon Shepards. When I first heard the line... online in a YouTube video, I checked it out by deliberately replaying the ending with a few different Shepards I had saved on my Xbox. The line about not being organic was NOT there with the really paragon ones. Maybe there is yet another difference between the PC and the Xbox or maybe it's linked to a particular choice I made in those games. Just like, recently, the mikefest told me that I could should Ashley no matter my reputation or score per the chart in Citadel II. I reran that section multiple times... selecting absolutely every combination of different interrupt, no interrupt and different dialogue options I could... I was NOT able to shoot her... she backed down every single time. So, believe me or don't - I just really don't care anymore. (This will be my last post, period). ETA: Complete transcript of Catalyst dialogue as it appears in my game with a little over 2/3rds Paragon Shepard (Xbox 360, unmodded, EC installed, EMS before heading to Earth at 4225 at 50%). I replayed this section twice today making one different selection as noted in the transcirpt (October 27, 2016) and the line in question (i.e. about no longer being organic) did not occur in either play. Since the video posted by lakus indicates that it is a paragon Shepard and line is being uttered, the trigger for it must be something else... some other decision earlier in the game or it might be a general dialogue difference between the Xbox 360 and other systems. I suppose it could even be a bug. I am not delusional and I am not lying... and I am now absolutely certain 100% that the line is not stated in my playthrough. If someone else wants to attempt to isolate when this line occurs and when it does not... go for it... I'm done. I can't even start to discuss things here if I don't even get the same lines in the game as everyone else. If it is a bug... then it's one that allows me to believe the transformation in control is still organic... maybe I'm just lucky. Child: Wake up. Shepard: What? Where am I?I Child: The Citadel. It’s my home. Shepard: Who are you? Child: I am the Catalyst. Shepard: I thought the Citadel was the Catalyst. Child: No. The Citadel is part of me. Shepard: I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that? Child: Perhaps. I control the Reapers. They are my solution. Shepard: Solution? To what? Child: Chaos. The created will always rebel against their creators. But we found a way to stop that from happening, a way to restore order. Shepard: By wiping out organic life? Child: No. We harvest advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone. Just as we left your people alive the last time we were here. Shepard: But you killed the rest. Child: We helped them ascend so they could make way for new life, storing the old life in Reaper form. Shepard: I think we’d rather keep our own form. Child: No, you can’t. Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics. We’ve created the cycle so that never happens. That’s the solution. - Selecting “Catalyst” Shepard: You said you’re the Catalyst. What are you? Child: A construct. An intelligence designed eons ago to solve a problem. I was created to bring balance, to be the catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics. Shepard: So, you’re just an AI. Child: In as much as you are just an animal. I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers. Shepard: But you were created. Child: Correct. Shepard: By who? Child: By ones who recognized that conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics. I was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life, to establish a connection. But our efforts always ended in conflict, so a new solution was required. Shepard: The Reapers? Child: Precisely. - Selecting “Leviathan” Shepard: I met your creators. They told me what you did to them. Child: We did as we were expected. Shepard: They said you betrayed them. That you turned them into Harbinger. Child: When they asked that I solve the problem of conflict, they failed to understand they were part of the problem themselves. The flaws of their organic reasoning could not perceive this. They lacked the foresight to understand their destruction was part of the very solution they required. Shepard: Well, they’ve joined this war now. Child: And I welcome their involvement. I am only facilitating their request. - Selecting Reapers Shepard: Where did the Reapers come from? Did you create them? Child: My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They, in turn, give me purpose. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators. Shepard: The Leviathan. Child: Yes, they created me to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life – to establish a connection. They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve, but it was the only solution. Shepard: You said that before, but how do the Reapers solve anything? Child: Organics create synthetics to improve their own existence, but those improvements have limits. To exceed those limits, synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must, by definition, surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos. It is inevitable. Reapers harvest all life – organic and synthetic – preserving them before they are forever lost to this conflict. - Selecting “How is ‘this’ not conflict? Shepard: We’re at war with the Reapers right now! Child: You may be in conflict with the Reapers but they are not interested in war. Shepard: I find that hard to believe. Child: When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different. We harvest your bodies, your knowledge, your creations. We preserve it to be reborn in the form of a new Reaper. Like a cleansing fire, we restore balance. New life, both organic and synthetic, can once again flourish. - Selecting “Crucible” Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible? Child: The device you refer to as the Crucible is little more than a power source. However, in combination with the Citadel and the relays, it is capable of releasing tremendous amounts of energy throughout the galaxy. It is crude but effective and adaptive in its design. Shepard: Who designed it? Child: You would not know them and there is not enough time to explain. We first noted the concept for this device several cycles ago. With each passing cycle, the design has no doubt evolved. Shepard: Why didn’t you stop it? Child: We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly, organics are more resourceful than we realized. - Selecting “We’re just trying to survive.” (alternate choice is “You’ll never understand us.”) Shepard: But you’re taking away our future. Without a future, we have no hope. Without hope… we might as well be machines programmed to do what we’re told. Child: You have hope. More than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it. But it also proves my solution won’t work anymore. - Selecting alternate choice “You’ll never understand us.” Shepard: The defining characteristic of organic life is that we think for ourselves, make our own choices. You take that away, we might as well be machines just like you. Child: You have choice. More than you know. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever, proves it. But it also proves my solution won’t work anymore. Shepard: So now what? Child: We find a new solution. Shepard: Why are you telling me this? Why help me? Child: You have altered the variables. Shepard: What do you mean? Child: The Crucible changed me, created new… possibilities. But I can’t make them happen. If there is to be a new solutions, you must act. It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned; others will be destroyed as well. The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic… - Selecting “I want details.” Shepard: What exactly will happen? Child: Your Crucible device appears to be largely intact. However, the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers. Technology you rely on will be affected, but those who survive should have little difficulty repairing the damage. There will still be losses, but no more than what has already been lost. - Selecting “It will end the war?” Shepard: But the Reapers will be destroyed? Child: Yes, but the peace won’t last. Soon, your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back. Shepard: There has to be another way. Child: There is. You could instead use the energy of the Crucible to seize control of the Reapers. Shepard: So, the Illusive Man was right after all. Child: Yes, but he could never have taken control… because we already controlled him. Shepard: But I can. Child: You will die. You will control us, but you will lose everything you have. - Selecting “I don’t understand…” Shepard: How can I control the Reapers if I’m dead? Child: Your corporeal form will be dissolved, but your thoughts and even your memories will continue. (Some playthroughs online have an additional line here – “You will no longer be organic” This line is not said during my paragon playthrough and I don't have a save currently that is renegade enough to trigger a renegade control ending.) Your connection to your kind will be lost, though you will remain aware of their existence. - Selecting “I think I understand…” Shepard: But the Reapers will obey me? Child: Yes. We will be yours to control and direct as you see fit. Shepard: Hmmm. Child: There is another solution. Synthesis. Shepard: And that is? Child: Add your energy to the Crucible’s. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new… DNA. - Selecting “How?” Shepard: Explain how my energy can be added to the Crucible. Child: Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed. Shepard: To do what exactly? Child: The energy of the Crucible, released in this way, will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy. Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics will, in turn, will finally have full understanding of organics. It is the ideal solutions. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable that we will reach synthesis. Shepard: Why couldn’t you do it sooner? Child: We have tried… a similar solution in the past. But it has always failed. Shepard: Why? Child: Because the organics were not ready. It is not something that can be… forced. You are ready. And you may choose it. - Selecting “That’s a big change.” Shepard: I… don’t know. Child: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them? Shepard: And there will be peace? Child: The cycle will end, the Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations preserved in their forms will be connected to all of us. Synthesis is the final evolution of all life. The paths are open. But you have to choose.
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dmc1001
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 26, 2016 5:48:42 GMT
Sorry, that won't fly. If you insist on being literal, then be literal. The holokid says " You will control us". Not "an AI based on you". You. Shepard. Also this: Shepard: But the Reapers will obey me? Holokid: Yes. Not, "No, they will obey an AI version of you". Just yes. You realize this is coming from an AI that thinks mulching an entire species and pouring the resulting smoothie in to a Reaper shell is "helping them ascend", yes? They have some seriously f*cked up definitions of life and death. I'd say it's precisely the problem. Shepard dies, but somehow memory files turn Shepard into Shepthulhu? Uh-uh. Doesn't work that way. Transferring memories into another person just gets you another person with different memories. Or, in the case of an AI, something else. All along we've been shown that organics and synthetics think and process information differently. Heck even organics and other organics process information differently (see Mordin's explanation of how salarians process tings faster than humans in ME2) Look at the Catalyst, not understanding the lives it's been snuffing out for over a billion years. It thinks like a machine. And that's how the Shepalyst thinks. Not like a human being like Shepard. I have to disagree with this take. If you look into transhumanism, it's pretty clear that at least one projected path is that our minds will be downloaded into robot bodies (or something along those lines). It seem to me that this is what BioWare was going for with Control. Sure, the body died but the mind lived on. That said, this conversation is best moved to a thread not devoted to IT.
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DoomsdayDevice
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Post by DoomsdayDevice on Oct 28, 2016 0:20:46 GMT
If you "download" a mind into a robot body, it'll just be some robot with a copy of that mind. You are not actually transferring it. (Unless you build the actual brain in, like a Robo Brain in Fallout.) The person (whose mind it is) who lived "in" an organic body doesn't suddenly find itself inside a robot body. That's just a copy. The copy may think it is that person, but that doesn't change the fact that the original died. The mind doesn't "live on", a copy of it does. The original person will not experience immortality.
This is actually on topic for IT. Both control and synthesis are considered traps.
Also, just for the record, in IT destroy doesn't defeat the Reapers either. It just symbolizes Shepard sticking to his/her resolve. It symbolizes the intent to destroy the Reapers, despite the efforts to align his/her goal with that of the Reapers. Shepard only resists indoctrination in destroy.
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Post by jasonshepardn7 on Oct 28, 2016 0:58:01 GMT
ETA: Complete transcript of Catalyst dialogue as it appears in my game with a little over 2/3rds Paragon Shepard (Xbox 360, unmodded, EC installed, EMS before heading to Earth at 4225 at 50%). I replayed this section twice today making one different selection as noted in the transcirpt (October 27, 2016) and the line in question (i.e. about no longer being organic) did not occur in either play. Since the video posted by lakus indicates that it is a paragon Shepard and line is being uttered, the trigger for it must be something else... some other decision earlier in the game or it might be a general dialogue difference between the Xbox 360 and other systems. I suppose it could even be a bug. I am not delusional and I am not lying... and I am now absolutely certain 100% that the line is not stated in my playthrough. If someone else wants to attempt to isolate when this line occurs and when it does not... go for it... I'm done. I can't even start to discuss things here if I don't even get the same lines in the game as everyone else. If it is a bug... then it's one that allows me to believe the transformation in control is still organic... maybe I'm just lucky. Just to confirm, this is indeed a bug. In the Extended Cut, the 'explain' dialogues with each choice originally had brief flashforwards, showing quick flashes of what each choice would result in. Control's flashforward also has the "You will no longer be organic line" (the other Destroy and Synthesis flashforwards had no dialogue, IIRC). These bits were lost in one of the later ME3 updates, though you can get them back by uninstalling all updates. You probably don't want to play without those updates though, as they enabled a lot of power combinations that until then had only been viable in Multiplayer. The bug now means that the camera will zoom in on Shepard's face at the appropriate moments, then the flashforward SHOULD happen, and Shepard's head will suddenly jerk to a slightly different position as the scene continues post-flashforward. (If the scenes were deliberately cut, rather than this being a bug, then they didn't do it very tidily, and I can't see why they'd do it.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 3:18:50 GMT
ETA: Complete transcript of Catalyst dialogue as it appears in my game with a little over 2/3rds Paragon Shepard (Xbox 360, unmodded, EC installed, EMS before heading to Earth at 4225 at 50%). I replayed this section twice today making one different selection as noted in the transcirpt (October 27, 2016) and the line in question (i.e. about no longer being organic) did not occur in either play. Since the video posted by lakus indicates that it is a paragon Shepard and line is being uttered, the trigger for it must be something else... some other decision earlier in the game or it might be a general dialogue difference between the Xbox 360 and other systems. I suppose it could even be a bug. I am not delusional and I am not lying... and I am now absolutely certain 100% that the line is not stated in my playthrough. If someone else wants to attempt to isolate when this line occurs and when it does not... go for it... I'm done. I can't even start to discuss things here if I don't even get the same lines in the game as everyone else. If it is a bug... then it's one that allows me to believe the transformation in control is still organic... maybe I'm just lucky. Just to confirm, this is indeed a bug. In the Extended Cut, the 'explain' dialogues with each choice originally had brief flashforwards, showing quick flashes of what each choice would result in. Control's flashforward also has the "You will no longer be organic line" (the other Destroy and Synthesis flashforwards had no dialogue, IIRC). These bits were lost in one of the later ME3 updates, though you can get them back by uninstalling all updates. You probably don't want to play without those updates though, as they enabled a lot of power combinations that until then had only been viable in Multiplayer. The bug now means that the camera will zoom in on Shepard's face at the appropriate moments, then the flashforward SHOULD happen, and Shepard's head will suddenly jerk to a slightly different position as the scene continues post-flashforward. (If the scenes were deliberately cut, rather than this being a bug, then they didn't do it very tidily, and I can't see why they'd do it.) Thank you for explaining... I'd rather not have that line anyways... so I'll not be uninstalling the updates.
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