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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 2, 2019 15:26:45 GMT
And wasn't the whole point of his character arc in Ragnarok that his power is inherent to him, not to the damn hammer? When Cap started swinging it he didn't suddenly gain Thor's powers, he just added some of Mjølner's capabilities to his own arsenal. The more I think about it the weirder and more offensive would it be for Natalie Portman to suddenly turn into "she-Thor" because girlpower. That can't actually be what they intend. It'd be awesome if the movie showed her going into Asgaardian culture, learning about their science and sorcery and how to enhance her body with potions or artifacts or runic enchantments or what have you. She has the background and relationships to make a story like that work, and Norse mythology is heavy on people becoming powerful through spells and blessings and other external factors. But having her just appropriate Thor's identity makes no sense. Indeed "Are you the God of Hammers?" And Captain America being worthy and while wielding Mjolnir gained "the power of Thor" He presumably got Thor's powerset. He didn't BECOME Thor. ANn for that matter, Mjolnir was destroyed, and the one from the past was presumably returned, so where the hell is Jane GETTING Mjolnir from? Also, in the comics, others have wielded Thor's hammer and none of them suddenly became Thor. Hell, even in that old Marvel vs DC comic, Wonder Woman wielded Thor's hammer after beating him, but she never became Thor.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 2, 2019 17:31:18 GMT
I don't think even Odin should be considered "worthy" either.
This was a man who once waged a brutal conquest of the Nine Realms with Hela, only to later rewrite the "official" histories to paint himself in a more favourable light. And when the Bifrost's (temporary) destruction lead to conflict throughout the Nine Realms, Odin sent his army, along with Thor and the Warriors Three on a mission to "restore peace" (i.e. bring the Realms back to heel). Oh please. Every "great" world leader throughout history has done this to some degree That's what I was saying though, that in some respects, Odin is a despot with delusions of grandeur.
He might have mellowed with age and come to see the error of his previous warmongering ways, but he still treats Asgard as having absolute authority over the Nine Realms, regardless of what the inhabitants those realms might think about that.
Aside from the Marauders (who were opportunistic raiders), we don't know any of the other factions involved in the "chaos" that swept the realms between Thor and The Dark World. How do we know that some of the fighting wasn't caused by some realms wanting independence and resisting going back under Asgardian rule?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 2, 2019 19:43:50 GMT
Aside from the Marauders (who were opportunistic raiders), we don't know any of the other factions involved in the "chaos" that swept the realms between Thor and The Dark World. How do we know that some of the fighting wasn't caused by some realms wanting independence and resisting going back under Asgardian rule?
Point of order: We do know a few things: Laufrey and he Jotuns Surtur The Svartalves
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Post by Iakus on Aug 2, 2019 19:45:54 GMT
FInally saw SPider-Man: Far from home.
Not the deepest movie ever, but a fun one. A decent wrap-up to Endgame.
Also "Night Monkey"
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Aug 2, 2019 20:53:11 GMT
FInally saw SPider-Man: Far from home. Not the deepest movie ever, but a fun one. A decent wrap-up to Endgame. Also "Night Monkey" I really enjoyed Far From Home as well. I think we can argue that MCU's Spidey is not meant to be deep. Frankly, I prefer the lighthearted Spidey in various media over the melodrama of the Raimi films.
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 2, 2019 22:18:17 GMT
Angela being Odin's firstborn's plotline was recycled by Waika/Feige for MCU's Hela, but i wonder if that's the only plotline they were planning on recycling from the character. It would be interesting to see what they adapt in Thor 4.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 2, 2019 22:42:33 GMT
Indeed "Are you the God of Hammers?" And Captain America being worthy and while wielding Mjolnir gained "the power of Thor" He presumably got Thor's powerset. He didn't BECOME Thor. ANn for that matter, Mjolnir was destroyed, and the one from the past was presumably returned, so where the hell is Jane GETTING Mjolnir from? That's another thing, yeah. I wasn't paying enough attention to Thor to be sure if I'd missed something about that situation in Endgame, but the only weapon that might grant "Thorish" powers left in the current timeline is Stormbreaker, right? We do know that Cap was able to at least hold it, either as a matter of course or because his access to Mjølner granted him power over whatever energy fields control the movement of both weapons, since some of their enchantments are based on the same technology so to speak. That's what I was saying though, that in some respects, Odin is a despot with delusions of grandeur. He might have mellowed with age and come to see the error of his previous warmongering ways, but he still treats Asgard as having absolute authority over the Nine Realms, regardless of what the inhabitants those realms might think about that.
Aside from the Marauders (who were opportunistic raiders), we don't know any of the other factions involved in the "chaos" that swept the realms between Thor and The Dark World. How do we know that some of the fighting wasn't caused by some realms wanting independence and resisting going back under Asgardian rule?
You're projecting a bit. The creatures living in six of those nine realms - excepting Asgård which holds the Aesir gods, Vanaheim which holds the hippie gods and Midgård which holds the humans - aren't either human or god. They're mostly literally monsters of different kinds. It's not impossible that there are settlements of them scattered throughout the nine realms that have developed into societies enlightened and culturally strong enough to maybe deserve independence from Asgård, but there's no particular reason to think so. In the mythological source material, the denizens of those realms getting restless and trying to make a move after the Asgaardians' ability to keep an eye on them suffers a blow, and Odin having to crack down on them, isn't at all unreasonable. Odin as a control-freak despot is definitely a possible interpretation of the situation, but there's nothing to really base it on in either the MCU or the myths without essentially going fanfiction.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 3, 2019 17:27:09 GMT
Indeed "Are you the God of Hammers?" And Captain America being worthy and while wielding Mjolnir gained "the power of Thor" He presumably got Thor's powerset. He didn't BECOME Thor. ANn for that matter, Mjolnir was destroyed, and the one from the past was presumably returned, so where the hell is Jane GETTING Mjolnir from? That's another thing, yeah. I wasn't paying enough attention to Thor be sure if I'd missed something about that situation in Endgame, but the only weapon that might grant "Thorish" powers left in the current timeline is Stormbreaker, right? We do know that Cap was able to at least hold it, either as a matter of course or because his access to Mjølner granted him power over whatever energy fields control the movement of both weapons, since some of their enchantments are based on the same technology so to speak. Thanos was also able to hold it, as he was able to intercept Stormbreaker when Thor tried to call it to him (and almost bisected Thor's sternum with it before Cap intervened) Whether it grants "Thorish" powers or not, it doesn't seem to have the "worthiness" enchantment on it.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 3, 2019 17:27:38 GMT
Something I noticed in Far From Home: It appears that Aunt May was dusted as well, as when we first meet her in the movie she was talking to a crowd about how when the Snap was undone she suprised the people currently living in her apartment. Guess Tony was spared the duty of teller her Peter was gone.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 3, 2019 18:21:47 GMT
Thanos was also able to hold it, as he was able to intercept Stormbreaker when Thor tried to call it to him (and almost bisected Thor's sternum with it before Cap intervened) Whether it grants "Thorish" powers or not, it doesn't seem to have the "worthiness" enchantment on it. Personally, I wouldn't discount the idea that Stormbreaker did in fact identify Thanos as worthy of holding it. Or even that he was strong enough to lift and wield it with force alone despite the enchantment, as the Hulk did in at least one cartoon I remember. But yeah. I guess we'll find out more about it in upcoming movies.
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Post by operationathena on Aug 3, 2019 18:22:08 GMT
Just saw Far From Home last night. Super well made. Light-hearted, cheesy at times, but fun. Jake Gyllenhaal stole the show IMO, I thought he was amazing. Just as good as Homecoming. The next MCU Spider-Man movie might be the best if they can pull it off.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 3, 2019 21:03:10 GMT
Angela being Odin's firstborn's plotline was recycled by Waika/Feige for MCU's Hela, but i wonder if that's the only plotline they were planning on recycling from the character. It would be interesting to see what they adapt in Thor 4. Eh, I've never liked the idea of (Spawn's) Angela being inserted into the Marvel universe.
(Same with the Watchmen being inserted into the DC universe, even if I'm enjoying what Doomsday Clock has been doing so far)
I'm a huge fan of Neil Gaiman, but I question why he sold Angela to Marvel less than a year after getting ownership of the character back? I guess maybe the massive legal bills from his decade-long lawsuit might have forced him to, but it does seem more like it was meant as a giant middle finger to Todd McFarlane?
I know plenty of characters have been merged into the Marvel/DC universe in the past, but most were treated as though they'd always been there on the periphery and usually only had minor links to preexisting characters (eg. Jessica Jones being one of Peter Parker's classmates). Whereas Angela's presence requires a pretty massive retcon, one that doesn't really work (at least not for me).
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 4, 2019 7:27:40 GMT
Angela being Odin's firstborn's plotline was recycled by Waika/Feige for MCU's Hela, but i wonder if that's the only plotline they were planning on recycling from the character. It would be interesting to see what they adapt in Thor 4. Eh, I've never liked the idea of (Spawn's) Angela being inserted into the Marvel universe.
(Same with the Watchmen being inserted into the DC universe, even if I'm enjoying what Doomsday Clock has been doing so far)
I'm a huge fan of Neil Gaiman, but I question why he sold Angela to Marvel less than a year after getting ownership of the character back? I guess maybe the massive legal bills from his decade-long lawsuit might have forced him to, but it does seem more like it was meant as a giant middle finger to Todd McFarlane?
I know plenty of characters have been merged into the Marvel/DC universe in the past, but most were treated as though they'd always been there on the periphery and usually only had minor links to preexisting characters (eg. Jessica Jones being one of Peter Parker's classmates). Whereas Angela's presence requires a pretty massive retcon, one that doesn't really work (at least not for me).
I look at it as Aldrif only bearing Angela's likeness as a homage to the og character, and nothing further but the character's inclusion was trash. The retcon of Odin now having a firstborn daughter who was thought to be killed by a faction of never before mentioned enemies of Asgard whose past conflict with makes the fued with the jotunn look like a lovers spat by comparison requires a lot of bullshit to make any sort of sense. I'm still on the fence about the Watchmen's inclusion in DC universe proper, especially when there's a wild Bendis running wild, but it has it's moments unlike "Heroes in Crisis". Remember when Harley Quinn snatched Wonder Woman's Lasso of Truth from her, outmaneuvered then choked Batman with it forcing him to reveal his hidden shard of kryptonite, and used it on Superman before escaping all in under a minute?
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Post by Sifr on Aug 4, 2019 19:56:17 GMT
Or why Hela resembles her adopted brother more than her actual brother and father?
(It makes more sense in mythology and the comics, where she's Loki's daughter)
Makes me wonder if Frigga was responsible for Loki's Asgardian form resembling Hela?
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Post by mybudgee on Aug 6, 2019 17:38:28 GMT
Something like this is DC's only hope at this point;
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Post by Iakus on Aug 6, 2019 18:52:12 GMT
Something like this is DC's only hope at this point;
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Post by Iakus on Aug 6, 2019 19:56:17 GMT
Indeed "Are you the God of Hammers?" And Captain America being worthy and while wielding Mjolnir gained "the power of Thor" He presumably got Thor's powerset. He didn't BECOME Thor. ANn for that matter, Mjolnir was destroyed, and the one from the past was presumably returned, so where the hell is Jane GETTING Mjolnir from? Also, in the comics, others have wielded Thor's hammer and none of them suddenly became Thor. Hell, even in that old Marvel vs DC comic, Wonder Woman wielded Thor's hammer after beating him, but she never became Thor. Not to mention: Albeit it was an emergency dispensation...
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Post by Sifr on Aug 6, 2019 20:32:50 GMT
Not to mention: Albeit it was an emergency dispensation... That's Superman.
Always stealing other hero's thunder despite being ridiculously OP already.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 6, 2019 21:22:35 GMT
Not to mention: Albeit it was an emergency dispensation... That's Superman.
Always stealing other hero's thunder despite being ridiculously OP already. True But at the time, he WAS going after Krona, who had already smooshed both the Grandmaster AND freakin' GALACTACUS single-handed.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 7, 2019 4:22:18 GMT
Also, in the comics, others have wielded Thor's hammer and none of them suddenly became Thor. Hell, even in that old Marvel vs DC comic, Wonder Woman wielded Thor's hammer after beating him, but she never became Thor. Not to mention: Albeit it was an emergency dispensation... And he took Cap's shield. Doesn't Sups have better things to do then stealing other people's things... 😕😒
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Post by DomeWing333 on Aug 7, 2019 4:43:07 GMT
What use does he even have for the shield? His skin is bulletproof.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 7, 2019 13:32:07 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Aug 7, 2019 16:46:30 GMT
Doesn't Sups have better things to do then stealing other people's things... 😕😒 Not really, Supes' power-set alone makes half the Justice League redundant. What use does he even have for the shield? His skin is bulletproof. None, Supes was simply marking his territory.
Only he gets to stand for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" around here.
Would have been easier (and less stressful) to bring Peggy back to the future?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 7, 2019 16:55:26 GMT
Doesn't Sups have better things to do then stealing other people's things... 😕😒 Not really, Supes' power-set alone makes half the Justice League redundant. What use does he even have for the shield? His skin is bulletproof. None, Supes was simply marking his territory.
Only he gets to stand for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" around here.
Would have been easier (and less stressful) to bring Peggy back to the future?
Which is funny, considering that the likes of Spawn and Ghost Rider would wipe the floor with Sups. (In fact, Venom did just that in that Marvel vs DC comic. And Sups had Spider-Man on his side as well).
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