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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2021 4:56:20 GMT
plus the Vision vs Vision fight was brilliant. I loved that the fight was 'won' with logic and a metaphor. Oh God, I almost forgot. Why aren't we talking about what AWFUL actors they cast as Clint's kids in Hawkeye? Especially the older daughter... horrendous I kind of glossed over them. My eyes glaze over the family parts mostly. I did pick up that the wife seems to know about Ronin. Thought that was notable. We're nearing the part in the formula where shit hits the fan and they've been leaning a lot on Bartons family. Wondering if they'll go that route or just stick with Kate's family issues. Barton doesn't really have a lot of skin in the game right now.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 3, 2021 18:10:47 GMT
Never heard of the change, sounds interesting. I loved pondering each week what the hell was going on at first. I'd still say stylistically it's one of the better Marvel put out. They were willing to try more with it. No question, WandaVision was the coolest of the MCU shows so far. It had some genuine mystery & the least cliche stuff (Witch battle notwithstanding), plus the Vision vs Vision fight was brilliant. Oh God, I almost forgot. Why aren't we talking about what AWFUL actors they cast as Clint's kids in Hawkeye? Especially the older daughter... horrendous I believe the older daughter was one of the Russo Brother's kid.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 3, 2021 20:16:29 GMT
Never heard of the change, sounds interesting. I loved pondering each week what the hell was going on at first. I'd still say stylistically it's one of the better Marvel put out. They were willing to try more with it. No question, WandaVision was the coolest of the MCU shows so far. It had some genuine mystery & the least cliche stuff (Witch battle notwithstanding), plus the Vision vs Vision fight was brilliant. Oh God, I almost forgot. Why aren't we talking about what AWFUL actors they cast as Clint's kids in Hawkeye? Especially the older daughter... horrendous The Russo’s had a Bring Your Daughter To Work Day while making Endgame. And I keep forgetting the Vision fight…while the finale was bad compared to the rest of the show, that part of it was good. It figures that two robots would realise they can just talk shit out, while the humans are all ‘I will destroy you’ or ‘you’re locked in a fabricated reality forever, lol’.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2021 20:59:14 GMT
WandaVision is my least favorite since it ruined a character I liked. And no, I don’t feel sorry for her when she trapped an entire town of innocent people. That whole “They’ll never know what you gave up for them” was the single worst scene in their shows. Even worse than Sam constantly defending a terrorist.
Curious why they think Barton needs redemption for his Ronin stretch. He only killed criminals if I recall, so how is that different than his career as Hawkeye?
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Post by Iakus on Dec 4, 2021 1:29:42 GMT
WandaVision is my least favorite since it ruined a character I liked. And no, I don’t feel sorry for her when she trapped an entire town of innocent people. That whole “They’ll never know what you gave up for them” was the single worst scene in their shows. Even worse than Sam constantly defending a terrorist. Curious why they think Barton needs redemption for his Ronin stretch. He only killed criminals if I recall, so how is that different than his career as Hawkeye? Maybe it's holdover from reading House of M, but Wanda wasn't ruined for me in WandaVision. She's clearly gone insane, which I find more tragic than anything else. But her story's not done yet, so I'm curious to see what happens next (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is one of the few Phase 4 projects I'm kinda looking forward to)
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 4, 2021 1:53:21 GMT
WandaVision is my least favorite since it ruined a character I liked. And no, I don’t feel sorry for her when she trapped an entire town of innocent people. That whole “They’ll never know what you gave up for them” was the single worst scene in their shows. Even worse than Sam constantly defending a terrorist. There’s a difference between not liking ‘who a character is now’ and ‘ruining’ them. It would’ve ruined her if her second great trauma had resulted in no development or change whatsoever, like with Pietro. Because that wouldn’t have made any sense. Frankly, her turning into an insane villain - albeit sympathetic if a viewer has any kind of empathy whatsoever - was the better choice. There is only so much psychological damage a person - even an Enhanced like Wanda - can believably endure before they just snap. Obviously, she has to be stopped. Obviously there have to be consequences. But that doesn’t mean the writers ruined anything. On the contrary, they created storytelling opportunities in a believable and totally understandable way. Because his career as Hawkeye saw him carry out government sanctioned missions? Because his career as an Avenger saw him defend, not attack? As opposed to Ronin, who hunted down bad people and killed them, even if they were just having dinner or working on their car when he came upon them. Extra judicial killings are kind of a no-no. It’s why both Batman and Punisher are criminals, but only one of them belongs behind bars for the rest of their life.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 4, 2021 1:56:26 GMT
WandaVision is my least favorite since it ruined a character I liked. And no, I don’t feel sorry for her when she trapped an entire town of innocent people. That whole “They’ll never know what you gave up for them” was the single worst scene in their shows. Even worse than Sam constantly defending a terrorist. There’s a difference between not liking ‘who a character is now’ and ‘ruining’ them. It would’ve ruined her if her second great trauma had resulted in no development or change whatsoever, like with Pietro. Because that wouldn’t have made any sense. Frankly, her turning into an insane villain - albeit sympathetic if a viewer has any kind of empathy whatsoever - was the better choice. There is only so much psychological damage a person - even an Enhanced like Wanda - can believably endure before they just snap. Obviously, she has to be stopped. Obviously there have to be consequences. But that doesn’t mean the writers ruined anything. On the contrary, they created storytelling opportunities in a believable and totally understandable way. Because his career as Hawkeye saw him carry out government sanctioned missions? Because his career as an Avenger saw him defend, not attack? As opposed to Ronin, who hunted down bad people and killed them, even if they were just having dinner or working on their car when he came upon them. Extra judicial killings are kind of a no-no. It’s why both Batman and Punisher are criminals, but only one of them belongs behind bars for the rest of their life. Nice personal insult, Moderator. Also never said she wasn’t a sympathetic villain. The problem is the show doesn’t treat her that way. We’re supposed to feel more bad for her giving up her fictitious family over a town being tortured for weeks/months.
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Post by mybudgee on Dec 5, 2021 19:05:23 GMT
My 21 year-old son got me a ticket to see this opening day at 5 p.m. I am excite
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2021 9:54:19 GMT
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 6, 2021 22:06:00 GMT
Never watched the Netflix Marvel shows - my wife did - but after Agents of Shield debuted to unexpected terribleness, I gave all Marvel TV a wide berth until WandaVision. I've heard good things about Daredevil, though, but just assumed they'd ditch all those actors (even if they used some of the characters), so yeah - pleasing for those that liked the shows.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2021 22:21:17 GMT
Never watched the Netflix Marvel shows - my wife did - but after Agents of Shield debuted to unexpected terribleness, I gave all Marvel TV a wide berth until WandaVision. I've heard good things about Daredevil, though, but just assumed they'd ditch all those actors (even if they used some of the characters), so yeah - pleasing for those that liked the shows. I can't really recommend it given it ends on a cliffhanger, but Daredevil was really good. Completely different from Agents. Charlie Cox nails his performance, and Vincent D'Onofrio's Kingpin is just as great.
Daredevil feels on par with the newer shows. Not quite the same "movie split into 6 parts" feeling, but still well produced.
The only other Netflix-Marvel show that was anywhere near as good was Punisher.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 9, 2021 6:54:41 GMT
Hawkeye E4 - The Spoiler Alert Enters The Building We knew she was coming, but it was still cool to see Yelena in action.
I don’t know if I’m really digging the wise cracking archer Avenger that Kate is being lined up as. She’s very likeable, but if I was hanging out with Gods, wizards, aliens and enhanced individuals, and my power was a bow and arrow…I’d probably be keeping a low profile as much as possible.
Was Laura “in the business” before they started a family? Why is the Rolex so important to Clint?
Anyway, good, without being amazing…again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 1:44:55 GMT
Hawkeye EP 4 I liked the "Saving Christmas" scenes in the first half. Got a few laughs. - Just as Clint gets comfortable she rings. Hardly an original joke but it fit their dynamic perfectly. - The dry erase bit. Reminds me of an old animated comedy I love, Frisky Dingo. Also kind of digs at her overconfidence. - "I'll just tell every stranger that I see that Hawkeye is full of bullshi...t" And some not funny things that still hit good. - Learning his arrow supply was a consideration. - Their Ronin convo, this part specifically. "I continued doing what I was trained to do." "Protect people." "Hurting people..." I don’t know if I’m really digging the wise cracking archer Avenger that Kate is being lined up as. She’s very likeable, but if I was hanging out with Gods, wizards, aliens and enhanced individuals, and my power was a bow and arrow…I’d probably be keeping a low profile as much as possible. Generally agree, but I'm starting to think overconfidence (or some similar trait) might be her character progression. She hasn't actually met any of the sorcerers or gods yet, just her longtime hero. I get the feeling she's due an ass-kicking. Maybe turned into bait now Clint has split to draw him back. Was Laura “in the business” before they started a family? Apparently. I liked their seeming openness before and like it even more now. I wonder if she was his techy/comms-person? Seems fertile ground for a relationship. Why is the Rolex so important to Clint? I don't remember. My first thought was that it ties Ronin to him somehow but I feel like I'm forgetting something from an earlier movie.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 10, 2021 20:42:12 GMT
Hawkeye EP 4 I don’t know if I’m really digging the wise cracking archer Avenger that Kate is being lined up as. She’s very likeable, but if I was hanging out with Gods, wizards, aliens and enhanced individuals, and my power was a bow and arrow…I’d probably be keeping a low profile as much as possible. Generally agree, but I'm starting to think overconfidence (or some similar trait) might be her character progression. She hasn't actually met any of the sorcerers or gods yet, just her longtime hero. I get the feeling she's due an ass-kicking. Maybe turned into bait now Clint has split to draw him back. Was Laura “in the business” before they started a family? Apparently. I liked their seeming openness before and like it even more now. I wonder if she was his techy/comms-person? Seems fertile ground for a relationship. Why is the Rolex so important to Clint? I don't remember. My first thought was that it ties Ronin to him somehow but I feel like I'm forgetting something from an earlier movie. Laura being his techie would help explain the closeness between her and Nat, as well. She was his ‘guy in the chair’ - to borrow a phrase from Spider-Man Homecoming - and pointed out some stuff that made him not pull the trigger on Widow in Budapest. Kate is definitely due a dose of reality. And you’re right - she hasn’t met any of the Tier 1 heroes. I don’t want her to be a gender flipped version of Clint, so if she is generally more jokey than him, that’s great…but her overpowering sense of confidence seems out of place. Arrows being a supply issue is not something I ever considered but it actually makes perfect sense. Maybe the final ‘battle’ of the series will be just him and Kate with a bunch of normal arrows, back to back “final stand” style?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 12, 2021 8:47:55 GMT
Further to Laura - I just had dinner at a mates house, and he had also theorised that Laura was part of Clint's SHIELD team - but he had a name (from the comics) - Mockingbird. Not heard of her, but what he offered as support was the theory that Laura was responsible for Clint not taking Nat down in Budapest and was blacklisted by SHIELD. And that was the reason the whole family was in New York at the start of the show, but she stayed on the farm.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2021 8:54:27 GMT
Further to Laura - I just had dinner at a mates house, and he had also theorised that Laura was part of Clint's SHIELD team - but he had a name (from the comics) - Mockingbird. Not heard of her, but what he offered as support was the theory that Laura was responsible for Clint not taking Nat down in Budapest and was blacklisted by SHIELD. And that was the reason the whole family was in New York at the start of the show, but she stayed on the farm. Sounds very plausible, particularly the reasoning on why they were split apart. That was a question I'd had and forgotten.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 0:17:54 GMT
Decided to give the What If?'s a try. They're better than I had thought. Lots of characters that didn't get enough screen-time make appearances. Get some fun scenes and interactions that felt like they were missing too.
(Thor telling Cpt. Marvel to "smile a little" was pretty damn hilarious and meta.)
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 13, 2021 1:45:15 GMT
Decided to give the What If?'s a try. They're better than I had thought. Lots of characters that didn't get enough screen-time make appearances. Get some fun scenes and interactions that felt like they were missing too.
(Thor telling Cpt. Marvel to "smile a little" was pretty damn hilarious and meta.)
Yeah - glad I watched them. The Party Thor episode was very good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 2:47:01 GMT
Ep 5 Hawkeye Overall the episode was alright but nothing amazing. Felt like lots of footwork fitting everything in for a fancy conclusion rather than an episode itself. Which I can understand given what we're watching. Lots to unpack but none of it cohesive yet so the ep felt a bit off.
Onto the spoilery bits...
Loved seeing the blip from her perspective. First time we've seen it entirely through their eyes IIRC. We saw it from Monica's perspective in WandaVision but, again IIRC, we see them cut from one scene to the next but not go through the blip itself. (and the weird effect after. I'd've guessed it'd be immediate.) "You can be used, you can be manipulated. Trust me, I know" taps his heart then his temple, such a good callback. FUCK ME THAT ENDING.I just posted about Daredevil and we get D'Onofrio.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 16, 2021 12:15:18 GMT
Further to Laura - I just had dinner at a mates house, and he had also theorised that Laura was part of Clint's SHIELD team - but he had a name (from the comics) - Mockingbird. Not heard of her, but what he offered as support was the theory that Laura was responsible for Clint not taking Nat down in Budapest and was blacklisted by SHIELD. And that was the reason the whole family was in New York at the start of the show, but she stayed on the farm. I think there's a very good chance that Laura was a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, but Mockingbird already appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. played by Adrianne Palicki.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 16, 2021 18:25:05 GMT
Further to Laura - I just had dinner at a mates house, and he had also theorised that Laura was part of Clint's SHIELD team - but he had a name (from the comics) - Mockingbird. Not heard of her, but what he offered as support was the theory that Laura was responsible for Clint not taking Nat down in Budapest and was blacklisted by SHIELD. And that was the reason the whole family was in New York at the start of the show, but she stayed on the farm. I think there's a very good chance that Laura was a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, but Mockingbird already appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. played by Adrianne Palicki.
Wasn't Agents of SHIELD made non-canon?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 16, 2021 19:41:00 GMT
Ep 5 Hawkeye Overall the episode was alright but nothing amazing. Felt like lots of footwork fitting everything in for a fancy conclusion rather than an episode itself. Which I can understand given what we're watching. Lots to unpack but none of it cohesive yet so the ep felt a bit off.
Onto the spoilery bits...
Loved seeing the blip from her perspective. First time we've seen it entirely through their eyes IIRC. We saw it from Monica's perspective in WandaVision but, again IIRC, we see them cut from one scene to the next but not go through the blip itself. (and the weird effect after. I'd've guessed it'd be immediate.) "You can be used, you can be manipulated. Trust me, I know" taps his heart then his temple, such a good callback. FUCK ME THAT ENDING.I just posted about Daredevil and we get D'Onofrio. Interesting - I felt it was one of the stronger episodes (although, to date it has been 'good, not great', so that isn't necessarily a glowing endorsement), the pieces are all falling into place. The blip from Yelena's POV was awesome. She was kind of lucky her friend hadn't sold and moved in the preceding 5 years (or...maybe the hypothetical buyers of the house were lucky).
Yelena is just awesome, so I hope we get to see more of her going forward in the MCU. I liked ScarJo's Widow, but she was always just a bit too "together". Yelena is a damned chaotic mess and I love it.
Her 'let's talk it out' scene was great, and something more shows and movies should do between heroes of conflicting ideologies. It doesn't have to always work, but they should always try. Seeking the peaceful path first is kind of a defining difference between the hero and the villain.
Clint is definitely too old for this shit.
Holy shit.
Kingpin. God. Damn. It.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 16, 2021 19:42:01 GMT
Further to Laura - I just had dinner at a mates house, and he had also theorised that Laura was part of Clint's SHIELD team - but he had a name (from the comics) - Mockingbird. Not heard of her, but what he offered as support was the theory that Laura was responsible for Clint not taking Nat down in Budapest and was blacklisted by SHIELD. And that was the reason the whole family was in New York at the start of the show, but she stayed on the farm. I think there's a very good chance that Laura was a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, but Mockingbird already appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. played by Adrianne Palicki.
Ah, thank you. I noped out of AoS after 6 or 7 episodes, so didn't pick up on that. My wife watched all the way through, so I picked up some stuff, but never heard the name Mockingbird from her.
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Post by mybudgee on Dec 17, 2021 3:06:30 GMT
Just left the Theater after Spider-Man: No Way Home 9/10 Probably my favorite Comic book flick after LOGAN & Infinity War I won't spoil the film itself. However the 2nd post-credit scene, which is after the complete credits, was incredible. It is an extended peek at Dr. Strange 2!! Oh my, Mordo is some kind of anti-hero, Wanda is sought out by Strange in some idyllic farmhouse setting to help with multiverse threats. Wong is crucified, and here's the best part; Mordo says this; "Steven, I know we haven't always agreed on everything, but we need to work together. The biggest threat to our Universe is... You." That's right, Evil Strange is the Villain!
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 17, 2021 5:58:08 GMT
I think there's a very good chance that Laura was a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, but Mockingbird already appeared in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. played by Adrianne Palicki.
Wasn't Agents of SHIELD made non-canon? They definitely end up in a different timeline from the main MCU due to time-travel shenanigans, but I think that just makes them canon in the same way the What If ...? episodes are canon. I guess they could recast Bobbi (or any of the other comics characters that show up, for that matter) but I wouldn't assume they're going to until it actually happens. I don't think Marvel have made a statement about it one way or another.
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