theflyingzamboni
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Oct 11, 2016 21:14:57 GMT
No, I meant the Forbidden Oasis. A lot of people hate how complicated it is to traverse, and how you see a Shard over there and there is no direct path from here to there. Perfect for Explorers, pretty much torture for everyone else. "compelled to explore every corner" sounds a bit more like completionist, which is more of an Achiever trait. I explore every corner because I want to see it. I guess there are boring parts even the first time, but you don't notice because you are looking forward to that next new vista. I had a hard time finding the link, the original is dead, but here you go: www.4you2learn.com/bartle/Thanks! I actually ended up getting: Achiever: 47% Explorer: 80% Griefer: 13% Socializer: 60% I am a completionist for sure, but it's less because I want to say I did everything, and more that I can't stand the thought of missing potentially interesting content. So I enjoy exploring, and I absolutely love finding cool little nooks and vistas and unusual structures, but I need story to be engaged in or challenges to overcome. I need to be involved in something so I feel like something is happening while I'm poking my nose everywhere, and haring off into the wilderness. For me, that's where DA:I dropped the ball, and where I hope ME:A will improve. That, most of all, is what I hope the top brass at BioWare mean when they say they've learned from the past, and what Mac Walters means when he says it's a game "about" exploration instead of a game "with" exploration. DA:I was the latter, the exploration was there to do if you wanted, but little more. Hopefully if it's "about" exploration, there are missions to accomplish in doing so. Preferably, ones driven by characters, and telling proper side-stories. Also hoping we get inhabited areas to explore too, instead of just wilderness. Cities are great places to explore, and I hope they remember that this time.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 11, 2016 21:24:12 GMT
No, I meant the Forbidden Oasis. A lot of people hate how complicated it is to traverse, and how you see a Shard over there and there is no direct path from here to there. Perfect for Explorers, pretty much torture for everyone else. "compelled to explore every corner" sounds a bit more like completionist, which is more of an Achiever trait. I explore every corner because I want to see it. I guess there are boring parts even the first time, but you don't notice because you are looking forward to that next new vista. I had a hard time finding the link, the original is dead, but here you go: www.4you2learn.com/bartle/I'm expecting much more 'Forbidden Oasis' in MEA because it has the verticality that has been hinted at. However, the jet packs should mitigate the frustration that would cause some (I liked it on the whole)
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Post by NRieh on Oct 12, 2016 9:45:52 GMT
Actually, Aarin Gend had been the 'stationary' BW-romance ~16 years before Steve&Sam. As for '20% more than ME3 squad' content - ME3 is not known for the deep and branching character-related dialogues and plots, you know. I don't think that giving us more than those 'click-auto-talks' is a big achievement.
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Post by Ieldra on Oct 12, 2016 9:59:27 GMT
What about those of us that hated the Hissing Wastes (I think that's the one PapaCharlie actually meant) and often gets bored with empty wanderings, but is compelled to explore every corner of a game anyway? Where do we fit? And what test is this? Link? No, I meant the Forbidden Oasis. A lot of people hate how complicated it is to traverse, and how you see a Shard over there and there is no direct path from here to there. Perfect for Explorers, pretty much torture for everyone else. "compelled to explore every corner" sounds a bit more like completionist, which is more of an Achiever trait. I explore every corner because I want to see it. I guess there are boring parts even the first time, but you don't notice because you are looking forward to that next new vista. I had a hard time finding the link, the original is dead, but here you go: www.4you2learn.com/bartle/Actually, I like to explore but I hated the Forbidden Oasis because it was wilfully convoluted. It didn't feel natural. As opposed to that, I have played ME1's UNC planets so often that I have memorized the optimal path for the Mako to most resources and could find them easily to this day. Also, I like to explore because I occasionally find interesting things. That can be landscape, story, quest or lore, but something has to be there and it has to be more than a personal note or something equally dry, and there must be a minimum density of interesting stuff to find. That's why DAI's Storm Coast worked rather well for me but the Hissing Wastes not so much.
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Post by goishen on Oct 12, 2016 12:29:19 GMT
I actually don't like to explore, at least in my first play through. Or, at the very least, if you tell me that something has to be right now, it can't wait, she/he's gonna die because of it... I take you at your word.
Second play through, I'm just like, "Ehh, screw it. Let them die, let's see if changes the story in any way." This is when I usually go exploring.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2016 14:59:13 GMT
Missed the Mac Walters bit, but I did get some access to another BioWare title at Comic-Con. Can't talk about what I saw, but I was able to see some new SWTOR gameplay and features. Plus, got to interview some BioWare staff. Will get a written piece out on that soon, actually, did try for some Andromeda hints, they were tight-lipped, despite being from another studio. Ohh... throw in a link to your SWTOR-stuff later. I am a sub and it would be fun to hear some news Ask and you shall receive. Not much to really say, there was one bit I had to cut out from the interview, where they talked about how their new strategy is to show less and have smaller launch windows to try and capture the height of the hype that developers. The expansion releases in 2 months so they did their first major reveal this past weekend...it makes sense in a lot of ways to do that now.
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Post by Addictress on Oct 14, 2016 4:32:21 GMT
When they say "more resources on companions" I'm hoping it's not just a billion cut scenes on dawdling around like they had in Inquisition, but rather companion-motivated storylines and subplots where companions have completely autonomous agendas and motivations that actively shape the lore and main story like in Dragon Age 2.
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 14, 2016 6:57:55 GMT
When they say "more resources on companions" I'm hoping it's not just a billion cut scenes on dawdling around like they had in Inquisition, but rather companion-motivated storylines and subplots where companions have completely autonomous agendas and motivations that actively shape the lore and main story like in Dragon Age 2.I wouldn't get your hopes up, since the leak mentioned loyalty mission as in ME2. Also it's not like DA2's quest added tons of stuff in the lore and main quests. Arguably the one they did were Isabela's and Anders'. Varric's was related but the events happen otherwise. The DA2 companions had personal agendas, but the game was structured differently then Inquisition (or DAO and the ME trilogy), since there wasn't a main central plot that lead to the various characters to join the party. They were just people tagging along Hawke. I doubt MEA will be similar to DA2, even if the quests and companions motivations don't have to be exactly the same as in DAI.
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Post by Addictress on Oct 14, 2016 19:10:36 GMT
When they say "more resources on companions" I'm hoping it's not just a billion cut scenes on dawdling around like they had in Inquisition, but rather companion-motivated storylines and subplots where companions have completely autonomous agendas and motivations that actively shape the lore and main story like in Dragon Age 2.I wouldn't get your hopes up, since the leak mentioned loyalty mission as in ME2. Also it's not like DA2's quest added tons of stuff in the lore and main quests. Arguably the one they did were Isabela's and Anders'. Varric's was related but the events happen otherwise. The DA2 companions had personal agendas, but the game was structured differently then Inquisition (or DAO and the ME trilogy), since there wasn't a main central plot that lead to the various characters to join the party. They were just people tagging along Hawke. I doubt MEA will be similar to DA2, even if the quests and companions motivations don't have to be exactly the same as in DAI. I liked Mass Effect 2's loyalty missions a lot, as well. Merrill's side story was extremely related to the main plot in my opinion. It illustrated the personal and social ramifications of blood magic, and also gave more depth to Dalish clans in general. They also kept referring to the Dread Wolf... hehe. She also gave a lot of information on Elven lore and how sorely the Dalish need to relearn their history.... kind of foreshadowing Solas/elves in DA:I. Fenris's stuff was all about Tevinter. Tevinter magisters, and the evils of magic unchecked and why people might fear a complete minimization of the circle. Fenris's side content also explored slavery, and fog warriors, and the Qun... The perspectives we got on each of these elements contributed to our decision at the end of DA2 or how we just.. perceive the stuff that goes on at the end of the Dragon Age 2. Everything about the end of Dragon Age 2 combines all of these issues into one, which is why it impacted me so much. But yes, if it's structurally more like Mass Effect 2, that is also cool. I loved all the side stories in ME2!!
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Post by Amirit on Oct 14, 2016 19:32:42 GMT
Thanks for the livestream link! Piece of info I liked best: The smallest companion in MEA had more lines than the largest in ME3 (if I'm remembering what he said accurately). They talked a lot about the importance of characters, which I liked to hear. Funny thing, the more obviously good news (like that one) I hear the less I trust the source (aka PR-ing developers). May be because all of it sounds very similar to praises of DAI (beginning with "the game we always wanted to make" and ending with "that feature is better than ever before"). DAI will haunt me for a long time, I'am afraid.
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 14, 2016 19:34:21 GMT
Blood magic is something that is explained through all the games though. It is true the whole part related to Merrill kind of foreshadowed Solas, but that's because Bioware thought of Inquisition's plot, and I think Solas' reveal as well, before switching to DA2, so they decided to put some stuff to foreshadow DAI. Flemeth's connection with the dalish is a clear example of that. Merrill's and Fenris' quests and dialogues did expand on the known lore, but that's something companions always do. It was the same in DAO and DAI.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 14, 2016 19:45:01 GMT
No, I meant the Forbidden Oasis. A lot of people hate how complicated it is to traverse, and how you see a Shard over there and there is no direct path from here to there. Perfect for Explorers, pretty much torture for everyone else. "compelled to explore every corner" sounds a bit more like completionist, which is more of an Achiever trait. I explore every corner because I want to see it. I guess there are boring parts even the first time, but you don't notice because you are looking forward to that next new vista. I had a hard time finding the link, the original is dead, but here you go: www.4you2learn.com/bartle/Actually, I like to explore but I hated the Forbidden Oasis because it was wilfully convoluted. It didn't feel natural. As opposed to that, I have played ME1's UNC planets so often that I have memorized the optimal path for the Mako to most resources and could find them easily to this day. Also, I like to explore because I occasionally find interesting things. That can be landscape, story, quest or lore, but something has to be there and it has to be more than a personal note or something equally dry, and there must be a minimum density of interesting stuff to find. That's why DAI's Storm Coast worked rather well for me but the Hissing Wastes not so much. I share this sentiment. This was more like a platformer than looking for nooks and crannies. However I do think that Mako and jetpack won't really allow this kind of funneling the player.
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Addictress
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Post by Addictress on Oct 15, 2016 5:27:47 GMT
Blood magic is something that is explained through all the games though. It is true the whole part related to Merrill kind of foreshadowed Solas, but that's because Bioware thought of Inquisition's plot, and I think Solas' reveal as well, before switching to DA2, so they decided to put some stuff to foreshadow DAI. Flemeth's connection with the dalish is a clear example of that. Merrill's and Fenris' quests and dialogues did expand on the known lore, but that's something companions always do. It was the same in DAO and DAI. Ehhh... they really took it to a whole new level in DA2. I mean, they had major acts and individual plot arcs for each character, divided by three chapters. It's not like... one mission for each. It was like three mission arcs. You think you're done with their story, but then they have a second act, and a third act... each. Over ten years. By the end, everybody's personal story is just blown into dramatic proportions that really ground the concept of mage vs. templar on every level. It's not comparable. Look at Sera. What, one side mission? Where you kill some guys and encounter some noble dude loitering around in a barely designed level? Some text-readable thingies on the war table? Sorry to be harsh, but you can't compare her to Merrill's content, Isabela's content, or even Aveline's content. Take Aveline. First act, you go on multiple missions and cut scenes following her self-initiated look into the local city guard's suspicious parcel-routing stuff. Then she gets promoted. You're like, "Oh, that's cool." But that's not all. In future acts, you help her grow past her grief by encouraging her to go out with Donnic. She consoles you if your mother dies. She actively intervenes on behalf of the city with the Arishok and takes charge in front of you when you encounter the crazed Elven radical dispersing poison in the city streets. Sera rarely does any of these things, either in animation or cut scene or anything. If you're wandering around with her, she might chime in... with dialogue... I guess... if your stumble on some caches. Or even Iron Bull. Chargers' deaths... yeah that's a good mission.... But every side character in Dragon Age 2 had like THREE of Iron Bull's chargers missions. Three of them, at least, along with plenty of other animated cut scenes and dialogue when they tag along with you in your own missions. The difference is huge. Not everyone goes for that, but I thought it was a highly effective way for me to look at the sociopolitical climate and perspectives in Kirkwall which were relevant to the main plot from a personal angle, and from the personal angles of people I grew to be invested in. Dragon Age 2 is horribly underrated. I don't discredit Origins, though. I rank Origins at the same level as DA2. It just had a different structure. Exploring the issues and circumstances through the eyes of your companions and gaining multiple perspectives on themes wasn't really the goal. It was more of a straightforward Don Quixote adventure story, and it was great.
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 15, 2016 7:22:29 GMT
I didn't say the content between those games is comparable. DA2 obviously focused more on companions' quests then DAI, but that is true for DAO as well. It's the same as ME2 that has more squadmates' questa (to put it mildly) compared to ME and ME2. It's a design choice, which isn't necessarily better or worse. I do think though they went too light on this type content in DAI (expecially Sera). What I said is that companions expand on the lore of the IP in general. A lot of the companions content in DA2 didn't expand on the Lore itself, but on the companions. Which is fine. That content was one of DA2's strong points. The game had howewer other problems, and not just on the reused areas. I don't hate DA2, to be clear. And I think that overall the companions quests is best compromise we got recently, since DAO, ME, ME3 and DAI had too light content in this department, and ME2 had too much.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 15, 2016 11:23:32 GMT
It would be nice to have crewmembers involved in a mission. A mission that requires a doctor, an engineer to help repair whatever, and others like that. In DAI, Cullen, Josephine and Leliana had quests that involved them and they weren't companions. So I don't see a problem with something that involves crewmembers and not just squadmates.
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Post by NRieh on Oct 15, 2016 13:40:06 GMT
I don't really like most of the ME2 character-related content, because huge part of it is totally irrelevant to anything AND is about the fucking 'daddy-issues'. Some are nice and actually seem like a part of the lore\characters' arc (e.g. Mordin, Grunt, Legion, Tali, Garus), but Miranda, Thane or Jackob? Meh... 'Heey, Shepard, I know we're saving the galaxy and time is short, but could we please look for my daddy\li'll sister\adult boy? I'm sooo worried about them, I just can't focus on anything else'.
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Post by maxon on Oct 15, 2016 21:13:21 GMT
Dragon Age 2 is horribly underrated. I couldn't agree more. Once you got beyond the repetative maps and expecting it to be DAO, it was really well done.
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Post by bshep on Oct 15, 2016 22:48:46 GMT
Dragon Age 2 is horribly underrated. I couldn't agree more. Once you got beyond the repetative maps and expecting it to be DAO, it was really well done. Agree it's a good game despite the issues you pointed out.
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Post by theflyingzamboni on Oct 15, 2016 23:14:12 GMT
Dragon Age 2 is horribly underrated. I couldn't agree more. Once you got beyond the repetative maps and expecting it to be DAO, it was really well done. I'll fourth that or whatever. I've always felt that it was one of the best bad games I've ever played. Worst best game? Whatever, what I mean is that I really liked it but I had SO many problems with it. Mostly mechanics (paratroopers anyone) and level design. Didn't even make sense to me at the time how I could pick apart something that much and still like it. Honestly, now I kinda want to replay it, but Civ 6 comes out next week, so I wouldn't be able to finish it in time.
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 16, 2016 1:17:05 GMT
I don't think DA2 problems were just reused maps or expecting DAO, which I didn't. It has a lot of problems, some in the writing area as well, expecially in the rushed third Act. I don't want to derail the thread with this discussion, expecially since I already had it with some of the people here on prime BSN. I just say that I don't think it's horribly underrated. It's more about people having different opinions and values, and based on how they feel about the strong points of the game compared to weak points, you'll get different ratings on the game. The same goes for DAO and, DAI. It doesn't help that in the plots and characters department the opinions can be varying a lot, so what one people think is a good plot to character, another will think it's a bad plot or character.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 16, 2016 4:54:49 GMT
I don't think DA2 problems were just reused maps or expecting DAO, which I didn't. It has a lot of problems, some in the writing area as well, expecially in the rushed third Act. I don't want to derail the thread with this discussion, expecially since I already had it with some of the people here on prime BSN. I just say that I don't think it's horribly underrated. It's more about people having different opinions and values, and based on how they feel about the strong points of the game compared to weak points, you'll get different ratings on the game. The same goes for DAO and, DAI. It doesn't help that in the plots and characters department the opinions can be varying a lot, so what one people think is a good plot to character, another will think it's a bad plot or character. I dont necessarily agree with that, but I will ask this; what, to you personally, makes a good plot or characterization for a role playing game? I fully admit, I found Dragon Age II to be a very solid game in that department personally, but I understand why folks may not be as enthralled by it as I am. The characterization and story of Dragon Age II was, to me at least, paced well from all three acts and offered a high degree of choice and consequence which was admittedly lacking in some areas in the other Dragon Age games. I am always curious about this, because I think that sort of question you ask is kind of the personal perspective we all have when it comes to RPGs. At least, when you ask me about it.
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August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 16, 2016 12:25:43 GMT
I don't think DA2 problems were just reused maps or expecting DAO, which I didn't. It has a lot of problems, some in the writing area as well, expecially in the rushed third Act. I don't want to derail the thread with this discussion, expecially since I already had it with some of the people here on prime BSN. I just say that I don't think it's horribly underrated. It's more about people having different opinions and values, and based on how they feel about the strong points of the game compared to weak points, you'll get different ratings on the game. The same goes for DAO and, DAI. It doesn't help that in the plots and characters department the opinions can be varying a lot, so what one people think is a good plot to character, another will think it's a bad plot or character. I dont necessarily agree with that, but I will ask this; what, to you personally, makes a good plot or characterization for a role playing game? I fully admit, I found Dragon Age II to be a very solid game in that department personally, but I understand why folks may not be as enthralled by it as I am. The characterization and story of Dragon Age II was, to me at least, paced well from all three acts and offered a high degree of choice and consequence which was admittedly lacking in some areas in the other Dragon Age games. I am always curious about this, because I think that sort of question you ask is kind of the personal perspective we all have when it comes to RPGs. At least, when you ask me about it. I wasn't saying that DA2 had a bad plot of characterization for an rpg. I just meant that people have different opinions about this stuff. I didn't express my opinion on the matter.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,288 Likes: 50,640
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,640
Iakus
21,288
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Oct 17, 2016 14:49:31 GMT
I don't think DA2 problems were just reused maps or expecting DAO, which I didn't. It has a lot of problems, some in the writing area as well, expecially in the rushed third Act. I don't want to derail the thread with this discussion, expecially since I already had it with some of the people here on prime BSN. I just say that I don't think it's horribly underrated. It's more about people having different opinions and values, and based on how they feel about the strong points of the game compared to weak points, you'll get different ratings on the game. The same goes for DAO and, DAI. It doesn't help that in the plots and characters department the opinions can be varying a lot, so what one people think is a good plot to character, another will think it's a bad plot or character. I dont necessarily agree with that, but I will ask this; what, to you personally, makes a good plot or characterization for a role playing game? I fully admit, I found Dragon Age II to be a very solid game in that department personally, but I understand why folks may not be as enthralled by it as I am. The characterization and story of Dragon Age II was, to me at least, paced well from all three acts and offered a high degree of choice and consequence which was admittedly lacking in some areas in the other Dragon Age games. I am always curious about this, because I think that sort of question you ask is kind of the personal perspective we all have when it comes to RPGs. At least, when you ask me about it. DA2 was by no means a bad game. But to me it did suffer from a lack of reactivity. This is not the same as a "save the world" plot. But a lack of choice being reflected. It was supposed to be a "rise to power" story which began with Hawke being a penniless refugee and ending with Hawke being one of the most powerful people in Kirkwall. But it simply didn't feel that way. Almost nothing changed in all that time. I can count on the fingers of both hands and have fingers left over which choices are reflected in even minor ways in the game. In games spanning nations, one can get away with being subtle in how player choice is reflected. But when a character stays in one place for years, and is ostensibly growing in power all that time, One expects the environment to at least somewhat change to reflect that. As it is, you can 't even decorate your home! Edit: And to keep this at least somewhat related to Mass Effect, the same could be said about Mass Effect. Especially the latest one, where Commander Shepard's ability to react to given situations was highly binary, with only two ways to react. And with a (virtually) preordained fate that left a lot of people feeling downright cheated. With all of Mac's "looking forward" rhetoric, let's hope they look back enough to see where they fell down so they don't up having to abandon yet another galaxy in the name of "a fresh start"
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