Why ME2 is the least good game in the trilogy for me

Please clarify 'less dialogue choice'. ME2 had the same amount of dialogue choice as ME1, if not a little bit more.
ME3 had less dialogue choice than both games, and this was a big disappointment to a lot of people. I am mostly indifferent about it.

I won't get into the skill tree stuff here. I should save it for a post to be discussed elsewhere. Objectively, you have fewer talent trees in ME2 than ME1; there is no debate about that. Subjectively, I think ME2's talent tree was better than ME1. But again, I should save that for another post.



I will do my best to separate your subjective feelings from objective fact.

Subjectively, if you feel that you did not have good weapon choice, then that is fine. It is a feeling based on how you like particular weapons. You may not like all the weapons in the game. I certainly do not like all the weapons in the game. I have issues with most of the assault rifles and sniper rifles.

Subjectively, I think all the SMGs are good. Most players think the Locust is the best SMG. I think all the SMGs are pretty balanced; the Locust could maybe use a slight damage nerf? Shuriken and Tempest can take a little practice to get good at using them.

Objectively in ME1:
1. There are exactly four weapon categories in ME1: assault rifles, pistols, sniper rifles, and shotguns.
2. All weapons of each category in ME1 fire exactly the same. All assault rifles fire exactly the same, all pistols fire exactly the same, all sniper rifles fire exactly the same, and all shotguns fire exactly the same. The only difference is some basic stats that determine whether you keep it or junk it.
3. Any weapon that is not a Spectre weapon can be considered junk. Once you have Spectre weapons, there is no objective reason to use a gun that is not a Spectre weapon.
4. ME1 armor choice was only slightly better than ME1 weapon choice. Best armors were Colossus (best damage protection) or Predator L/M/H (best shields). Everything else can be considered trash once you get the best armors. There is no objective reason to wear other armor once you get the best armors.

Objectively in ME2:
1. You have 5 weapon categories in ME2 (6 with heavy weapons).
2. Most of the weapons in each category handle different from each other. Mostly, this does not make certain weapons objectively better the other weapons in the same category (there are exceptions).

Objectively, when comparing ME1 weapons and ME2 weapons:
1. In ME1, all classes can use a pistol. Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator have at least one more weapon by default.
2. In ME2, all classes start with a Pistol and SMG (Soldier trades SMG for assault rifle). Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator have at least one more weapon by default. Essentially ME1 pistol > ME2 pistol and SMG.
3. In ME1, non-Soldier classes needed to take a weapon talent as their bonus talent if they wanted another weapon.
4. In ME2, all classes can take a unique weapon or a bonus weapon category partway through the game. It is no longer treated as a bonus power.

Subjectively, if you feel you had less weapon choice in ME2 compared to ME1, then that is fine. I have no problem with you feeling like that. Objectively however, you actually start with fewer weapons with most classes in ME1 compared to ME2, and all those weapons in ME1 fire exactly the same. Generally, you immediately ditch your current weapon once you get an obviously superior weapon, since you only care about the stats of a weapon. In ME2, weapons have stats, but they are hidden as each gun has a lot more stats that control how the gun works, beyond just 'damage-overheat-accuracy'.

Again, if you do not like certain guns in ME2, which makes you feel like you have less weapon choice in ME2 compared to ME1, then I have no problem with that opinion. It is a completely valid opinion.

Heck, I will even agree that ME1 has a lot more weapons than ME2, but in ME1 only four guns matter: HMWP Pistol, HMWA Assault Rifle, HMWSR Sniper Rifle, and HMWSG Shotgun. Everything else is filler until you get those guns.

I personally prefer 2 over 1 for the character moments since, let's be honest, everyone in ME1 was just a walking codex entry for their species/culture group. In 2 we got some real investment going in those relationships, and a lot of genuine payoff in ME3 and Citadel, for all its flaws. I actually think MEA did better in it's companion characterization specifically than ME1 did, but that's just me.

Not you specifically, but this sentiment of quote really bugs me because it seems the same people have this issue. It goes like this:
"I want my choices to matter"
*You cannot get some Charm/Intimidate options if you don't go full Paragon/Renegade*
"Not like that."

Sure, ME1 allowed you to go Paragade/Renegon with little to no consequence as long you spent points in Charm and Intimidate. Although personally I recommend putting no points in Charm or Intimidate if want Paragade/Renegon since it leaves more points for actual powers. 

But even with all that, you still essentially go full Paragon or Renegade in ME1 with maybe the odd choice that isn't.

Personally, I think Mass Effect Andromeda did it best: no Charm/intimidate, just a choice of different responses, no way to convince people.


I really should put this in a different post because I am derailing the thread at this point. I apologize in advance. If you want to take this to another thread, let me know.

Mass Effect 2 talent tree:
- 5 class talents
- 1 class passive
- 1 bonus talent
70 points required to max all talents

Each talent bar requires 10 points to max, with each rank of the bar costing that amount of points (1 + 2 + 3 + 4).
Each talent can be used starting at rank 1.
At rank 4, you have a choice of evolutions that improves the power more drastically than previous ranks.

At rank 1, you start the game with 1 point in two class talents, plus 1 point in a bonus talent (if unlocked).

Talent unlocks:
- to unlock talent 2, talent 1 must be rank 2 (3 points)
- to unlock talent 4, talent 3 must be rank 2 (3 points)
- to unlock talent 5, talent 4 must be rank 2 (3 points, or 6 points if you include talent 3 requirements)

Maximum level is 30.
At level 30 you will have 51 points.
If min-maxing, at level 51 you can max 5 talent bars (typically four powers and the class passive) with 1 point for another power. This will leave 1 talent bar with no points.

Mass Effect 2 allows you to re-assign your points (after Horizon) so you can try different builds.
Mass Effect 2 allows you to change your bonus talent at any time after acquiring Mordin.


Mass Effect 3 talent tree:
- 8 class talents
- 1 class passive
- 2 dialogue passives (Charm and Intimidate)
- 1 Spectre Training passive/talent
- 1 bonus talent (at least one bonus talent must be unlocked from a previous playthrough)
156 points required to max all talents

Each talent bar requires 12 points to max. Each rank of the bar costs 1 point.
Each talent has Basic, Advanced, and Master levels. The ranks required for these levels are different depending on the power (such as 3-7-12, 4-8-12, or 1-5-9).
Class passive only has 6 ranks to start. Completing the Luna VI mission gives you a choice a specialization which gives you 6 more ranks that improve different talents and passives.

At rank 1, you start the game with 1 point in two class talents, plus 3 spare points.

Talent unlocks:
- talents 2, 4, 6, and 8 are locked behind talents 1, 3, 5, and 7 respectively. Ranks required vary.
- game locks specific talent ranks behind level increases, meaning you may not be able to max a talent even if you have enough points

You can gain free Charm/Intimidate ranks as you play the game:
- 1 free Charm and Intimidate when you become a Spectre
- Up to 3 free Charm for 10%, 25%, and 80% of Paragon bar (also unlocks Charm ranks)
- Up to 3 free Intimidate for 10%, 25%, and 80% of Renegade bar (also unlocks Intimidate ranks)

Maximum level is 50 on a first playthrough, level 60 on subsequent playthroughs. You cannot reach level 60 in a single playthrough (max level 58 with all DLC).
At level 50 you will have 92 points (2 pre-assigned talent points + 90 through level ups).
At level 60 you will have 102 points (2 pre-assigned talent points + 100 through level ups).

92 points: Max 7 (of 13) talent bars + 8 points remaining.
102 points: Max 8 (of 13) talent bars + 6 points remaining.

BUT:
1. You typically only want to pass EITHER all Charm OR all Intimidate checks (not both), so you can ignore 1 talent tree
2. Some talents do not need to be maxed to 12:
- Electronics and Decryption can be left at rank 9 for Master Overload/Sabotage. This will save you 6 points on some classes.
- First Aid can be left at rank 1 for most classes. (You need more points to unlock Medicine on some classes). First Aid has greatly diminishing returns after tank 1.
- Some powers are useless; Damping is terrible and can be avoided. Stasis is bad without Bastion bonuses, and can be left at 1 with Bastion bonuses.
- You do not need to spend all talent points in armor, or you can avoid spending points in armor completely. For example, Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator and leave armor at rank 7 (unlock medium/heavy armor). Soldier and Infiltrator do not need rank 12 of armor (only rank 11 is needed for maximum damage protection; rank 2 only improves shield boost which is not needed with Immunity.)
- Most players on the old BSN forums recommended spending only 4 points in Spectre Training for Basic Unity. If you do not mind never being able to revive squadmates, you do not need to put any points into Spectre Training at all.
- For classes with 2+ weapons, you may not need to put talent points into a second weapon talent

So depending on your class/build, you can avoid putting talent points into some talent trees because they are simply not needed.
- Soldier is the easiest to spec (a lot of talents can be ignored or not maxed)
- Vanguard is the hardest (too many good talents, have to leave some talents at Advanced)

Mass Effect 1 does not allow you to re-assign your talent points.
Mass Effect 1 does not allow you to select a different bonus talent.

And most importantly/frustratingly is the Luna VI mission, which grants you your specialization:
- It is a sidequest and so CAN BE MISSED (players racing through the game on a first playthrough)
- It is a sidequest and so CAN BE COMPLETED SO LATE that you may not get enough (or any) points to spend in it. See my first playthrough for an example.
- The specialization influences your build, not the other way around. (compare with ME2, where you can spec your class passive based on your build)
- The specializations available to your class are unknown without prior game knowledge.

The term "multipurpose" has nothing to do with combat though.  The Omega hub in ME2 is a market and a bar and an area where the PC talks with several different people in order to initiate different sorts of missions and other little side quests.  I clearly labeled the  ME2 ones as "non-combat encounters."  I'm rather tired of repeating that and I don't really care whether it satisfies your urge for combat,  I find it perfectly fine... and ME2 is also more than the sum of its parts... that's why it is still ranked as one of the best games of all time and is consistently ranked higher than ME1.

Believe it or not. I like MEA more than ME2. lol

"I don't play MEA and I don't like MEA because I heard it suuuuuuuuuuck!"

This is my response to anyone who use that to start an argument: play it and then we talk. 

If finishing is an issue, SWTOR is by far the most time sink of all Bioware games. Andromeda and Inquisition isn't even close to it. I also treat MEA the way I did with DAI, don't be a completionist, don't be distracted. If story is an issue; just concentrate on the main story and just see the outcome later.

The trouble with MEA is that it felt bloated but incomplete, like a big mystery box for its characters, settings, story. It tried to be a better version of ME1 but too occupied and out of time, to not see what made ME1 work; not the gameplay or the open world, it was the clear story and characters including the protagonist. Unlike DAI which only felt satisfying once you get all its DLCs, MEA does have clear beginning, middle and the end. While it could have used more time to polish it further and some DLCs to pad it out instead of half-half development for SP and MP experiences. But it was clear that its a standalone or the start of a new series. So I'm not ready to judge MEA solely on its own; only as a piece of a larger puzzle. 

ME2 is an ARPG that make you feel stuck in a B-action movie. There's no depth, only shallow everything. Shallow main story, shallow gameplay, shallow enemies, shallow characters, shallow friendship, shallow. And the worse crime was they way the game treat player's experience with Shepard as a shell rather than a person, and the player being a passenger to that shell. You die for no reason, you got resurrected, you fight bad guys, you become a babysitter and you go on a suicide mission to save the galaxy in one big giant explosion for a terrrorist organization that nobody seem to want to call as terrorists because they're all nice....  and everyone forget is a sequel to something... funnily, it took Knights of the Fallen Empire for me to appreciate its structure, narrative and template characters.

All of these game have its appeals and its flaws. MEA certainly doesn't try to replicate ME2 experience and I don't even want it to. That's why I am grateful that Anthem exist; its an ARPG with SP and MP capabilities, and it seems you can literally be a Terminator again with your real friends. I do want a proper sequel to MEA where its purely singleplayer and every resources on it. If I have to wait another 10 years for that, then so be it.

You have an opinion about it, so does hundreds of people on the internet who never play it and only watch some weeboo youtubers rants about it.

I already spent more than an entire year with internet people who never play MEA telling me how awful it was. Me. The person who actually finished the entire game; from 1.05 to 1.10. Who actually think its still not that bad.

I'm not here to convince anyone to think otherwise, especially those who never play the game. And I just don't give a flying f&ck. Sorry.

I do enjoy DAI a lot more than MEA, although I was more attached to the Ryders than my Inquisitors. I wished the game didn't depend on too much third person scenes and sacrificing the flow of the narrative. There were things I wished certain side quests was meant for the main story, like Ryder's family secret but I hate it that its used to insert Liara/Garrus fanservice bs. Either way, its all "could have been better, but not that bad that its unplayable" sort of game... like "okay but meh" game. Its a watered down Bioware game and it showed. 

Even some of the complaints against MEA and DAI about story and exploration are plain exaggeration. I play Final Fantasy XV a month ago and that game started straight up with fetch quests with even more hollowed out story that need to be filled with a number of DLC. I wouldn't have the time to finish it if it wasn't available for PC. There are more choices for straightforward-story games in the market. But I appreciate stories that delivered more open choices and consequences, rather than a linear story which I could watch cutscenes on youtube.

I raise young kids myself. I just have to work around them and allocate like 2-3 hours per day for it. I usually play at night, but then again, I'm not married so..