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Post by Catilina on Oct 19, 2016 20:20:53 GMT
Welcome to the "Straight Femsheps who didn't like Kaidan in Mass Effect 1" Club. No offense meant to Kaidan, I respect the guy, but he was so passive that I started to wonder if Bioware was afraid to give a more self-assertive guy as a romance. Passive or not, I wanted him, I think, my Shepard active enough.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 19, 2016 20:25:45 GMT
It was, until David Gaider went back on it and went with the "they are all just bisexual" route. I'm unsure exactly what the "It was" is targeting, but if you mean it was playersexual, it wasn't. Anders and Isabela are shown to be bisexual in any playthrough, that's not playersexual. I apologize if I misunderstood, though. Two things. First, no Anders was not. If you play as a female, he never brings up his relationship with Karl or shows any interest in men. That was one of the biggest things that people complained about regarding playersexuality. Second, even if Anders and Isabela were always portrayed as bisexual, Fenris and Merrill were not and instead were left vague for player interpretation of their sexuality. Bioware writers literally said this in the early days before the complaints appeared. That is what I am referring to. I saw Merrill portraying my sexuality not bisexuality, which is not portrayed nearly as often especially in Bioware games. So I had representation, then Gaider took it away with his "They are all just bisexual" comments, even targetting my LI specifically. He ripped the rug out from under me, and that is why I am upset.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Prime Likes: 11282
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Post by illyria on Oct 19, 2016 22:30:44 GMT
I'm unsure exactly what the "It was" is targeting, but if you mean it was playersexual, it wasn't. Anders and Isabela are shown to be bisexual in any playthrough, that's not playersexual. I apologize if I misunderstood, though. Two things. First, no Anders was not. If you play as a female, he never brings up his relationship with Karl or shows any interest in men. That was one of the biggest things that people complained about regarding playersexuality. Second, even if Anders and Isabela were always portrayed as bisexual, Fenris and Merrill were not and instead were left vague for player interpretation of their sexuality. Bioware writers literally said this in the early days before the complaints appeared. That is what I am referring to. I saw Merrill portraying my sexuality not bisexuality, which is not portrayed nearly as often especially in Bioware games. So I had representation, then Gaider took it away with his "They are all just bisexual" comments, even targetting my LI specifically. He ripped the rug out from under me, and that is why I am upset. Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right?
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Post by opuspace on Oct 20, 2016 2:20:59 GMT
No offense meant to Kaidan, I respect the guy, but he was so passive that I started to wonder if Bioware was afraid to give a more self-assertive guy as a romance. Passive or not, I wanted him, I think, my Shepard active enough. He definitely improved in ME2 and ME3, it's just that in ME1, that was the reason why I didn't romance him. By ME2, that Shepard had already found someone else. I am sorry that your Shep had to be shorted two out of three games.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 20, 2016 2:23:31 GMT
Two things. First, no Anders was not. If you play as a female, he never brings up his relationship with Karl or shows any interest in men. That was one of the biggest things that people complained about regarding playersexuality. Second, even if Anders and Isabela were always portrayed as bisexual, Fenris and Merrill were not and instead were left vague for player interpretation of their sexuality. Bioware writers literally said this in the early days before the complaints appeared. That is what I am referring to. I saw Merrill portraying my sexuality not bisexuality, which is not portrayed nearly as often especially in Bioware games. So I had representation, then Gaider took it away with his "They are all just bisexual" comments, even targetting my LI specifically. He ripped the rug out from under me, and that is why I am upset. Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right? Right, demisexuality is a very hard one to understand, mainly because it's rather recent in being made aware and it's vague enough to frustrate anyone who encounters it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 20, 2016 3:00:29 GMT
Two things. First, no Anders was not. If you play as a female, he never brings up his relationship with Karl or shows any interest in men. That was one of the biggest things that people complained about regarding playersexuality. Second, even if Anders and Isabela were always portrayed as bisexual, Fenris and Merrill were not and instead were left vague for player interpretation of their sexuality. Bioware writers literally said this in the early days before the complaints appeared. That is what I am referring to. I saw Merrill portraying my sexuality not bisexuality, which is not portrayed nearly as often especially in Bioware games. So I had representation, then Gaider took it away with his "They are all just bisexual" comments, even targetting my LI specifically. He ripped the rug out from under me, and that is why I am upset. Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right? What comments does she make about Isabela and Carver? The one with the Qunari men sounded more like finding someone aesthetically pleasing rather than being attracted to them. Well, if you are right about these comments she made then she isn't. And it's the whole thing Gaider did about how they are just bisexual, as in only that and not say demi and bi.
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Post by Panda on Oct 20, 2016 7:19:40 GMT
I really wish people would stop associating DA's abandonment of playersexuality and return to set orientations as some kind of moral cowardice. The decision has less to do with appeasing complainers, and more about resource management. Bisexual characters take more to write, record and animate than ones who are simply straight or gay, especially when you consider the multiple race factor. If every LI were playersexual, future DA games would take twice as long. Given EA's rush attitude, that's just not very realistic. Persoanlly, I have to shake my head at the player entitlement that demands that romancable characters have no prefences or agency beyond the PC . I don't understand how 6 assorted romances could possibly take fewer resources than 4 bi ones. And wanting everyone to be bi to avoid disappointment =/= wanting the characters to have no preferences. There are still tons of other ways they can show preferences, such as whether or not your personality is actually compatible. Something, oddly, Bioware doesn't really factor in. Somewhat after DAI's release there was talk of this on the forums and Allan said that animating bisexual romances takes more time as does animating romances for each available races (which is why Bull was supposed to be race-gated first). Apparently they have to animate scenes twice, once for both sexes. And more when different races included? Though I'm not sure if they truly did that, since romance scenes with dwarf/qunari tend to be bit awkward so it's not like they did them again from the scratch even if they did animate them again. Writing unless you are changing lines and not just pronouns and gendered things like lady/mister etc. shouldn't take lot of time, but I know some players would like to see different lines for male and female protagonists (some weren't happy with Kaidan's lines being "recycled" for romance with male Shepard in ME3. So you aren't doing everything twice, but there is things you need to change in terms of animation and writing at least with bi-romances. So -if not taking factor variables like how long romance scenes were, how fast different writers write etc.- it's likely that Josephine's romance took more time to do than Cassandra's due to Josephine being option for both sexes and Cassandra just one.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2016 11:15:54 GMT
Passive or not, I wanted him, I think, my Shepard active enough. He definitely improved in ME2 and ME3, it's just that in ME1, that was the reason why I didn't romance him. By ME2, that Shepard had already found someone else. I am sorry that your Shep had to be shorted two out of three games. Oh yes, I heard that, but I still would have liked him. In any case, I saved him on the Virmire. It was good decision (and not that hard: Ashley was a bit boring, as i see). And in ME3 Alenko was not too passive.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 5,371
Prime Likes: 11282
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Post by illyria on Oct 20, 2016 11:32:52 GMT
Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right? What comments does she make about Isabela and Carver? The one with the Qunari men sounded more like finding someone aesthetically pleasing rather than being attracted to them. Well, if you are right about these comments she made then she isn't. And it's the whole thing Gaider did about how they are just bisexual, as in only that and not say demi and bi. Carver: So, you're not like a lot of other girls. Merrill: No, I'm an elf. Carver: Right, alright then. Merrill: Oh, did I miss something dirty? Carver: What? No! It wasn't dirty. It wasn't anything. Merrill: Oh? Right, because I miss a lot of dirty things and sometimes I wouldn't mind hearing them. Carver: Would you now? As for the Isabela/Merrill stuff there's nothing really in their banter. It's just a vibe I picked up between them (Bioware, as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, are really bad at having bi characters express an open interest in the same gender). As for Gaider not saying 'demi'. A lot of people have never heard of demisexuality, or understand it.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 21, 2016 12:57:30 GMT
Not sure I'd say "shafted" but I think there was a lack of diversity for the male straight romance. Cassandra and Josephine were pro Chantry , pro order , both of the romance are "romantic" , in the old fashioned kind of way. I'd say both are also duty bound so both romance might sometimes feel unpersonal on some level.
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N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 954
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Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Oct 27, 2016 7:48:55 GMT
Two things. First, no Anders was not. If you play as a female, he never brings up his relationship with Karl or shows any interest in men. That was one of the biggest things that people complained about regarding playersexuality. Second, even if Anders and Isabela were always portrayed as bisexual, Fenris and Merrill were not and instead were left vague for player interpretation of their sexuality. Bioware writers literally said this in the early days before the complaints appeared. That is what I am referring to. I saw Merrill portraying my sexuality not bisexuality, which is not portrayed nearly as often especially in Bioware games. So I had representation, then Gaider took it away with his "They are all just bisexual" comments, even targetting my LI specifically. He ripped the rug out from under me, and that is why I am upset. Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right? Well, no shit.
I had an inkling back in Awakening that Anders was bisexual and it was only confirmed when DA2 was released. Its clear early on that Anders had some sort of relationship with Karl, but its speculation on the female side and only confirmed on male side.
When a companion tells a male character, they did this and does not reveal such to a female character I feel as though that information either should have been told to both sexes or none. What just because my character has tits she should not be told of this? Let’s take Alistair as an example. How about if he was bisexual, he tells a male player he is not a virgin but tells a female he is. A character in a story, movie or game should be as they are to all; not made-up in terms of what your character’s sex is.
I know the game is years old and this probably has been discussed to death and they already fixed this and lot of other romance crap; but it’s one of those old annoyances.
Moving on…
I don’t think the romances in DAI were perfect, they were better not perfect.
My disappointment stems from DA not opening the doors a bit more on the romance side. Sure, you can romance two advisors. But why couldn’t a female dwarf finally romance Varric? Or how about a romance with Harding or even Rylen? And go a bit further than that and open Lilly up for a romance if she was not romanced in DAO.
I know Bioware puts a lot of work into romances (most of the time) but I feel as though they could broaden their horizons and give people more options outside the main character’s inner circle.
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Post by Natashina on Oct 27, 2016 8:08:15 GMT
Here it is.
The BioWare Forums are now offline.
The most typical "BSN" thread is alive and well.
BioWare can kill their forums, but the BSN is an idea. You can't kill an idea.
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illyria
N2
blep mlem mlem
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 5,371
Prime Likes: 11282
Posts: 194 Likes: 645
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Post by illyria on Oct 27, 2016 9:29:12 GMT
Anders is still bi whether or not he talks about Karl to f!Hawke. And Merrill makes comments about Isabela, Carver and the Qunari that make it pretty clear she's into guys and girls. Fenris is very reserved and will only respond to flirts, not initate them. All four LIs are bi. There's no reason why Merrill can't be both demi and bi since that's the way she feels attraction, not who she's attracted to right? Well, no shit.
I had an inkling back in Awakening that Anders was bisexual and it was only confirmed when DA2 was released. Its clear early on that Anders had some sort of relationship with Karl, but its speculation on the female side and only confirmed on male side.
When a companion tells a male character, they did this and does not reveal such to a female character I feel as though that information either should have been told to both sexes or none. What just because my character has tits she should not be told of this? Let’s take Alistair as an example. How about if he was bisexual, he tells a male player he is not a virgin but tells a female he is. A character in a story, movie or game should be as they are to all; not made-up in terms of what your character’s sex is.
I know the game is years old and this probably has been discussed to death and they already fixed this and lot of other romance crap; but it’s one of those old annoyances.
Moving on…
I don’t think the romances in DAI were perfect, they were better not perfect.
My disappointment stems from DA not opening the doors a bit more on the romance side. Sure, you can romance two advisors. But why couldn’t a female dwarf finally romance Varric? Or how about a romance with Harding or even Rylen? And go a bit further than that and open Lilly up for a romance if she was not romanced in DAO.
I know Bioware puts a lot of work into romances (most of the time) but I feel as though they could broaden their horizons and give people more options outside the main character’s inner circle. I completely agree that Anders should've talked about this with f!Hawke, not just m!Hawke. BW have a bad habit of hiding their m/m NPC relationships (Zev's relationship with Rinna was made very clear in game, but the fact that it was a poly relationship with Taliesen was left to subtext and confirmed much later in World of Thedas, for example. There's also Wade and Herran and Semus and Ashaad) Varric can't be romanced because he's still in a relationship with Bianca (the woman, not the bow), and Harding was added as a flirt option very late in the game. As for Leliana - BW said that they didn't want to use the budget they have for the romances on a character who had already been a romance, when they could write new ones. (It nearly always comes down to money.)
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N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 954
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Oct 27, 2016 10:09:53 GMT
I completely agree that Anders should've talked about this with f!Hawke, not just m!Hawke. BW have a bad habit of hiding their m/m NPC relationships (Zev's relationship with Rinna was made very clear in game, but the fact that it was a poly relationship with Taliesen was left to subtext and confirmed much later in World of Thedas, for example. There's also Wade and Herran and Semus and Ashaad) Varric can't be romanced because he's still in a relationship with Bianca (the woman, not the bow), and Harding was added as a flirt option very late in the game. As for Leliana - BW said that they didn't want to use the budget they have for the romances on a character who had already been a romance, when they could write new ones. (It nearly always comes down to money.) Never did Zeveran's romance nor seen it on YouTube.
But Bianca is married. So is Varric <coughs> dipping in the cookie jar when Bohdan is off and away?!? As for Lilly would have been nice for those who chose to romance someone else for their cannon in DAO and give them a second chance - as it were. Oh well.
Money is their excuse as is time. I chalk it up to, "Meh, we don't feel like it.."
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 27, 2016 12:14:11 GMT
Well, no shit.
I had an inkling back in Awakening that Anders was bisexual and it was only confirmed when DA2 was released. Its clear early on that Anders had some sort of relationship with Karl, but its speculation on the female side and only confirmed on male side.
When a companion tells a male character, they did this and does not reveal such to a female character I feel as though that information either should have been told to both sexes or none. What just because my character has tits she should not be told of this? Let’s take Alistair as an example. How about if he was bisexual, he tells a male player he is not a virgin but tells a female he is. A character in a story, movie or game should be as they are to all; not made-up in terms of what your character’s sex is.
I know the game is years old and this probably has been discussed to death and they already fixed this and lot of other romance crap; but it’s one of those old annoyances.
Moving on…
I don’t think the romances in DAI were perfect, they were better not perfect.
My disappointment stems from DA not opening the doors a bit more on the romance side. Sure, you can romance two advisors. But why couldn’t a female dwarf finally romance Varric? Or how about a romance with Harding or even Rylen? And go a bit further than that and open Lilly up for a romance if she was not romanced in DAO.
I know Bioware puts a lot of work into romances (most of the time) but I feel as though they could broaden their horizons and give people more options outside the main character’s inner circle. I completely agree that Anders should've talked about this with f!Hawke, not just m!Hawke. BW have a bad habit of hiding their m/m NPC relationships (Zev's relationship with Rinna was made very clear in game, but the fact that it was a poly relationship with Taliesen was left to subtext and confirmed much later in World of Thedas, for example. There's also Wade and Herran and Semus and Ashaad) Varric can't be romanced because he's still in a relationship with Bianca (the woman, not the bow), and Harding was added as a flirt option very late in the game. As for Leliana - BW said that they didn't want to use the budget they have for the romances on a character who had already been a romance, when they could write new ones. (It nearly always comes down to money.) This is beside the point, but fwiw Zevran explicitly says "we were friends...and more" about Taliesen. Granted, it was waaaay too easily overlooked (Zev has to walk away from the fight, and I imagine it's more common for him to defend the Warden or betray them...). The poly thing, though, was 5000% subtext. Which is rather a shame. (I'm not actually sure what my point was. Ignore meeee.)
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illyria
N2
blep mlem mlem
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Prime Posts: 5,371
Prime Likes: 11282
Posts: 194 Likes: 645
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blep mlem mlem
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Post by illyria on Oct 27, 2016 13:06:20 GMT
I completely agree that Anders should've talked about this with f!Hawke, not just m!Hawke. BW have a bad habit of hiding their m/m NPC relationships (Zev's relationship with Rinna was made very clear in game, but the fact that it was a poly relationship with Taliesen was left to subtext and confirmed much later in World of Thedas, for example. There's also Wade and Herran and Semus and Ashaad) Varric can't be romanced because he's still in a relationship with Bianca (the woman, not the bow), and Harding was added as a flirt option very late in the game. As for Leliana - BW said that they didn't want to use the budget they have for the romances on a character who had already been a romance, when they could write new ones. (It nearly always comes down to money.) Never did Zeveran's romance nor seen it on YouTube.
But Bianca is married. So is Varric <coughs> dipping in the cookie jar when Bohdan is off and away?!? As for Lilly would have been nice for those who chose to romance someone else for their cannon in DAO and give them a second chance - as it were. Oh well.
Money is their excuse as is time. I chalk it up to, "Meh, we don't feel like it.."
Yeah, Bianca is married but it's clear from her dialogue that she married the guy entirely because her family threatened Varric. She's not in love with him, she's in love with Varric and he with her. I completely agree that Anders should've talked about this with f!Hawke, not just m!Hawke. BW have a bad habit of hiding their m/m NPC relationships (Zev's relationship with Rinna was made very clear in game, but the fact that it was a poly relationship with Taliesen was left to subtext and confirmed much later in World of Thedas, for example. There's also Wade and Herran and Semus and Ashaad) Varric can't be romanced because he's still in a relationship with Bianca (the woman, not the bow), and Harding was added as a flirt option very late in the game. As for Leliana - BW said that they didn't want to use the budget they have for the romances on a character who had already been a romance, when they could write new ones. (It nearly always comes down to money.) This is beside the point, but fwiw Zevran explicitly says "we were friends...and more" about Taliesen. Granted, it was waaaay too easily overlooked (Zev has to walk away from the fight, and I imagine it's more common for him to defend the Warden or betray them...). The poly thing, though, was 5000% subtext. Which is rather a shame. (I'm not actually sure what my point was. Ignore meeee.) Ah, my mistake. I don't think I've ever had the senario where he walks away from the fight (Zev always comes to the Warden's aid in my games). And too late, already noticed you.
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Post by lundajfs on Nov 1, 2016 16:59:49 GMT
I know this has really been beaten to death, but I feel it needs to be reiterated. While it's wonderful that there are so many options in the game, for so many people, I don't think it's quite right that straight males have virtually two options: Josephine and Cassandra. I, like many others, found both of these characters to be unattractive. I'm aware that this is an unpopular opinion because others actually did like them, but that isn't the issue. I'm also aware that this is really an issue of subjectivity since even the demo with the most options may very well still not be that thrilled by their options. One might say that I did get options, I just didn't like them. That's fair, but ultimately I think this leads me to the crux of my post: all of the characters available should be possible to romance. Sera was easily the most attractive and interesting female romance option in Inquisition - aside from maybe Harding. Inevitably this lead to me making a female character, which is fine, I've played female characters before, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have preferred to play a character I could relate to more. I like this kind of complaints because Bioware felt like they could shove things down people throats. And I'm pro gay characters, I like the idea of females that do not fit the "feminine stereotype" and I'm in favor of black people or anything non-white, either by aesthetics or cultures and phylosophies. The problem is that in this case Bioware did not give the option for the traditional "white male gamer" be what he is. So for the thousandethish time I say, give people options. It is easy, somehow, we have two kinds of people, people who like the "system programmed options" and people who want to "fight the system", so give people a hollywood perfect barbie and an alternative girl, might even have a different body model with some fat on it, not all people are thin not even all fighters/warriors. Also there are people who couldn't care less about aesthetics and romance for the story, personality and others, these won't bother if someone is an amputee or Orlando Bloom. I'm all for all kinds of people, if in the future we go "furry", the hell, put catgirls and My Little Ponies as romance option but NEVER EVER limit people, do not MAKE people accept it. I'm ok with people saying Cassandra is superhot and all, but she is not the feminine stereotype and Josephine does not fit the nazi white male stereotyped woman either so in other words Bioware forced people against objetification which is dumb. Promoting black people, fat people, LGBT people (I'm happy for Krem) is amazing but not letting people live their fantasies in a fantasy world is dumb. A "standard guy" wants to be Conan and fuck a lustful objetified sorceress in a bikini. You don't have to give it to the players, but the idea that the player is a masculine man and fucks a feminine woman, as the basic hetero fantasy should not be challenged. Mind you I'm a SJW, I don't even think people have the right to teach people heterossexuality, I don't even think that these fantasies are fair or even right, I'm the kind of person that thinks that there should be feminine man and masculine woman... BUT... if a (male?) person was programmed in the society to like the "feminine woman" and do not want to challenge his "programming" I think the game should have given him the option to be that person. I think it should be obvious, people have the right to be dumb and just live the "standard life". Unless of course it means he will force his dumbness onto others. The whole problem is the forcing. The solution is very simple as I said, give people options. Some lesbians like feminine women, other like masculine women, others don't care, so since we have two options for lesbians, would it hurt for Bioware to have a "lady" and a "butch"? Same thing for gay men and heterossexual men and women. Just give people the most obvious options when it comes to visuals, the "pro system" and the "fuck the system" ones and let them decide. It does not cover everything but it allows Judith Butler and Adolf Hitler to play the game without feeling they are being forced against their phylosophies.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dragontartare on Nov 1, 2016 17:31:41 GMT
I know this has really been beaten to death, but I feel it needs to be reiterated. While it's wonderful that there are so many options in the game, for so many people, I don't think it's quite right that straight males have virtually two options: Josephine and Cassandra. I, like many others, found both of these characters to be unattractive. I'm aware that this is an unpopular opinion because others actually did like them, but that isn't the issue. I'm also aware that this is really an issue of subjectivity since even the demo with the most options may very well still not be that thrilled by their options. One might say that I did get options, I just didn't like them. That's fair, but ultimately I think this leads me to the crux of my post: all of the characters available should be possible to romance. Sera was easily the most attractive and interesting female romance option in Inquisition - aside from maybe Harding. Inevitably this lead to me making a female character, which is fine, I've played female characters before, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have preferred to play a character I could relate to more. I like this kind of complaints because Bioware felt like they could shove things down people throats. And I'm pro gay characters, I like the idea of females that do not fit the "feminine stereotype" and I'm in favor of black people or anything non-white, either by aesthetics or cultures and phylosophies. The problem is that in this case Bioware did not give the option for the traditional "white male gamer" be what he is. So for the thousandethish time I say, give people options. It is easy, somehow, we have two kinds of people, people who like the "system programmed options" and people who want to "fight the system", so give people a hollywood perfect barbie and an alternative girl, might even have a different body model with some fat on it, not all people are thin not even all fighters/warriors. Also there are people who couldn't care less about aesthetics and romance for the story, personality and others, these won't bother if someone is an amputee or Orlando Bloom. I'm all for all kinds of people, if in the future we go "furry", the hell, put catgirls and My Little Ponies as romance option but NEVER EVER limit people, do not MAKE people accept it. I'm ok with people saying Cassandra is superhot and all, but she is not the feminine stereotype and Josephine does not fit the nazi white male stereotyped woman either so in other words Bioware forced people against objetification which is dumb. Promoting black people, fat people, LGBT people (I'm happy for Krem) is amazing but not letting people live their fantasies in a fantasy world is dumb. A "standard guy" wants to be Conan and fuck a lustful objetified sorceress in a bikini. You don't have to give it to the players, but the idea that the player is a masculine man and fucks a feminine woman, as the basic hetero fantasy should not be challenged. Mind you I'm a SJW, I don't even think people have the right to teach people heterossexuality, I don't even think that these fantasies are fair or even right, I'm the kind of person that thinks that there should be feminine man and masculine woman... BUT... if a (male?) person was programmed in the society to like the "feminine woman" and do not want to challenge his "programming" I think the game should have given him the option to be that person. I think it should be obvious, people have the right to be dumb and just live the "standard life". Unless of course it means he will force his dumbness onto others. The whole problem is the forcing. The solution is very simple as I said, give people options. Some lesbians like feminine women, other like masculine women, others don't care, so since we have two options for lesbians, would it hurt for Bioware to have a "lady" and a "butch"? Same thing for gay men and heterossexual men and women. Just give people the most obvious options when it comes to visuals, the "pro system" and the "fuck the system" ones and let them decide. It does not cover everything but it allows Judith Butler and Adolf Hitler to play the game without feeling they are being forced against their phylosophies. BioWare did give us options, but some people don't like those options. You act like your solution will solve everything, but how, exactly, does providing everyone with just two options provide more variety? Especially if you are trying to pigeonhole everyone into either "pro-system" (by which I assume you mean a traditional heterosexual couple with traditional gender roles) or "fuck the system" (as if there is only one way to do that). Frankly, I think the stereotypical straight white male gamer (the sort of juvenile who would have fits over playing anything other than a straight white male in any game) should have to experience what everyone else does at least once. Maybe then they can learn to appreciate how much most other games cater to them at the expense of everyone else.
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Post by lundajfs on Nov 1, 2016 19:27:25 GMT
BioWare did give us options, but some people don't like those options. You act like your solution will solve everything, but how, exactly, does providing everyone with just two options provide more variety? Especially if you are trying to pigeonhole everyone into either "pro-system" (by which I assume you mean a traditional heterosexual couple with traditional gender roles) or "fuck the system" (as if there is only one way to do that). Frankly, I think the stereotypical straight white male gamer (the sort of juvenile who would have fits over playing anything other than a straight white male in any game) should have to experience what everyone else does at least once. Maybe then they can learn to appreciate how much most other games cater to them at the expense of everyone else. yeah, yeah, right and I think (honestly, not kidding) that every heterossexual sex act is a rape, BUT, the world is not mine, so it matters not if I think people should be this way or that way, everybody should be what they want to be from a political point of view you will teach nothing to oppressors by this kind of "justice", they will just let you play, and once they are done they will step on the oppressed again because they still have the social/financial power, the only thing that changes oppression is not conscience it is taking the power away, "dialoguing" with the oppressor, trying to teach lessons is a waste of time, Anders knew better as did Andraste the reason I "pigeonholed" everyone in either "pro-system" and "fuck the system" is thar the game only offers two romance options for each sexual orientation so there is no point in debating other "classification" that will result in more the two "types" of people, I'm realistic, I deal with what we can have and these two cover the main disputes in all "political" matters in Bioware games Mages and Templars, the others do not need to be in this discussion because they focus on other matters and are (or aren't) happy for entirely different reasons And yes, regarding romance it is no possible to please every single person, but put a bimbo leliana and an overweight vivienne and you cover the claims from both sides, of course they would still complain because people like arguing but there you would have the representation of a woman that do not exist to please man and a woman that only exists to please man, oppressors and oppressed equally pleased and offended
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Fen'Harel Faceman
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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almostfaceman
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Nov 1, 2016 19:35:08 GMT
yeah, yeah, right and I think (honestly, not kidding) that every heterossexual sex act is a rape,
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Post by Catilina on Nov 1, 2016 19:38:43 GMT
BioWare did give us options, but some people don't like those options. You act like your solution will solve everything, but how, exactly, does providing everyone with just two options provide more variety? Especially if you are trying to pigeonhole everyone into either "pro-system" (by which I assume you mean a traditional heterosexual couple with traditional gender roles) or "fuck the system" (as if there is only one way to do that). Frankly, I think the stereotypical straight white male gamer (the sort of juvenile who would have fits over playing anything other than a straight white male in any game) should have to experience what everyone else does at least once. Maybe then they can learn to appreciate how much most other games cater to them at the expense of everyone else. yeah, yeah, right and I think (honestly, not kidding) that every heterossexual sex act is a rape, BUT, the world is not mine, so it matters not if I think people should be this way or that way, everybody should be what they want to be from a political point of view you will teach nothing to oppressors by this kind of "justice", they will just let you play, and once they are done they will step on the oppressed again because they still have the social/financial power, the only thing that changes oppression is not conscience it is taking the power away, "dialoguing" with the oppressor, trying to teach lessons is a waste of time, Anders knew better as did Andraste the reason I "pigeonholed" everyone in either "pro-system" and "fuck the system" is thar the game only offers two romance options for each sexual orientation so there is no point in debating other "classification" that will result in more the two "types" of people, I'm realistic, I deal with what we can have and these two cover the main disputes in all "political" matters in Bioware games Mages and Templars, the others do not need to be in this discussion because they focus on other matters and are (or aren't) happy for entirely different reasons And yes, regarding romance it is no possible to please every single person, but put a bimbo leliana and an overweight vivienne and you cover the claims from both sides, of course they would still complain because people like arguing but there you would have the representation of a woman that do not exist to please man and a woman that only exists to please man, oppressors and oppressed equally pleased and offended
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Nov 1, 2016 19:51:56 GMT
2000 - "Game developers suck, why don't we get any gay, lesbian or bisexual romances?!"2010 - "Game developers suck, why do we only get bisexual romance options?!"2016 - "Game developers suck, why are the gay, lesbian or bisexual romances the wrong kind for me?!"So... progress?
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Post by Catilina on Nov 1, 2016 19:54:40 GMT
2000 - "Game developers suck, why don't we get any gay, lesbian or bisexual romances?!"2010 - "Game developers suck, why do we only get bisexual romance options?!"2016 - "Game developers suck, why are the gay, lesbian or bisexual romances the wrong kind for me?!"So... progress? Promishing...
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Domakir
N3
I'm a good person, but I don't practice it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 382 Likes: 1,032
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I'm a good person, but I don't practice it.
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Post by Domakir on Nov 1, 2016 20:04:32 GMT
BioWare did give us options, but some people don't like those options. You act like your solution will solve everything, but how, exactly, does providing everyone with just two options provide more variety? Especially if you are trying to pigeonhole everyone into either "pro-system" (by which I assume you mean a traditional heterosexual couple with traditional gender roles) or "fuck the system" (as if there is only one way to do that). Frankly, I think the stereotypical straight white male gamer (the sort of juvenile who would have fits over playing anything other than a straight white male in any game) should have to experience what everyone else does at least once. Maybe then they can learn to appreciate how much most other games cater to them at the expense of everyone else. yeah, yeah, right and I think (honestly, not kidding) that every heterossexual sex act is a rape
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In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
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Post by Natashina on Nov 1, 2016 21:39:03 GMT
Boy, my husband is going to be surprised. Heck, I'm surprised. A 13 year relationship, over a decade of marriage and apparently I've been being taken advantage of all of this time. I guess I was delusional when I was enjoing initimacy with my husband. No, just no. Anyone that says all consensual sex with a hetero couple is rape has no bloody idea what they are talking about. On topic: I know of a buddy of mine on the forums that would have loved to see a blonde LI for the straight guys and/or bisexual ladies that was anti-Chantry. The looks are one thing, but the personality options were pretty limited for the guys this time around. Cass and Josie are not the same person, but have a lot of the same views on the Chantry and about Thedas in general. I don't think that anyone got shafted, we just got options that didn't work for everyone. I talked about how dwarven female characters also got screwed over. We had the Bull (which I like but definitely not for everyone) and Blackwall (which...yeah no). Female characters had more options, depending upon the race. Humans and Elves got the bulk of it, with dwarves and Quanari only have two. So I think that many of us didn't get what we wanted.
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