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Post by q5tyhj on Mar 21, 2018 20:58:31 GMT
The Vorcha Engineer, my favourite pyromaniac, and he doesn't even have a flamer a couple of themed challenges have made me a firm believer in using the Kishock on him. Here's a build I like to run. Everything he does adds ticking damage, so he is basically the king of DoT, especially if you want to go a little heavy handed and use inc. ammo on him. I like having regen on vorchas, it allows them a little leeway in sticking their necks out of cover and staying aggressive - a necessity IMO - but that extra burst of speed from rank 6 of bloodlust is too good to pass up. Since the Kishock can be hip-fired at no penalty, he can close range as well, and add a little melee into the mix. Subnet is, at least on-host, an underappreciated power IMO, especially on the Vorcha Engie, capable of cc'ing groups of mooks (the BatSent, who can tank for days, has perhaps less use for it) - plus, thrown on the ground it can defang phantoms I have a lot of fun with him on gold, though I would not want to take this build pugging off-host. Edit: Arktinen , I think you can get the flamer to stop by dodging. At least, that's what I do when I get hit with a seeker swarm, and suddenly I cannot turn that damn thing off manually anymore! Ah, will have to try that next time! I'm suspecting that the problem could be related to my controller scrubbage, but also it is worse in some matches (regardless of enemy or them even noticing me), and also then started checking if there was other signs of lag in those games. Could be a bad combo of those two, but will definitely try that tactic. I'm just not that used to playing dodgy characters ( ) that I'd try 'n' dodge automatically. I get out of Dodge. (...I should go). yeah I have serious ps3 controller issues (I refuse to buy another one at this point), in particular buttons that get stuck, so I feel your pain about the flamer derpage but can also confirm HamleticTortoise's recommendation: dodge does the trick
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Post by q5tyhj on Mar 21, 2018 21:00:47 GMT
I think we all have this with characters we like right? I mean, I hate seeing people spam 15 arc grenades with the Demogirl into a spawn (especially when its a Praetorian/Banshee that has already bubbled up), or they only use the Harrier with her all the time, or Shadows/Slayers that spam slashes behind cover and never move (seriously, I have seen several Slayers who don't even use Phase Disruptor. What the hell is up with that), Fury's that blindly run into groups and die, Juggernauts that stand in the open and melee everything even if you just went down 34 times with this strategy, brainless shockwave/flamer spammers, etc. I almost always get annoyed by some random almost every time I play these day. the trick is to find a way to just laugh at pugs being ridiculous scrubs, if you let it bother you it will literally drive you insane
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 22, 2018 5:30:40 GMT
I think we all have this with characters we like right? I mean, I hate seeing people spam 15 arc grenades with the Demogirl into a spawn (especially when its a Praetorian/Banshee that has already bubbled up), or they only use the Harrier with her all the time, or Shadows/Slayers that spam slashes behind cover and never move (seriously, I have seen several Slayers who don't even use Phase Disruptor. What the hell is up with that), Fury's that blindly run into groups and die, Juggernauts that stand in the open and melee everything even if you just went down 34 times with this strategy, brainless shockwave/flamer spammers, etc. I almost always get annoyed by some random almost every time I play these day. the trick is to find a way to just laugh at pugs being ridiculous scrubs, if you let it bother you it will literally drive you insane Sure I can laugh when they suck on their own and away from me. But when they do annoying things that affect my playing, its not so funny.
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Post by q5tyhj on Mar 22, 2018 8:08:00 GMT
the trick is to find a way to just laugh at pugs being ridiculous scrubs, if you let it bother you it will literally drive you insane Sure I can laugh when they suck on their own and away from me. But when they do annoying things that affect my playing, its not so funny. yeah I can't really argue with you there; pugs that don't help with/actively fuck up objectives may be the single most annoying thing in the game (*well, besides Geth)... which is one reason I have 100+ Solo Masteries
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 22, 2018 22:19:49 GMT
Sure I can laugh when they suck on their own and away from me. But when they do annoying things that affect my playing, its not so funny. yeah I can't really argue with you there; pugs that don't help with/actively fuck up objectives may be the single most annoying thing in the game (*well, besides Geth)... which is one reason I have 100+ Solo Masteries The Geth aren't so bad if you are playing a character that can handle them easily like DemoGirl or Talon guy (or any decent Engineer), but bad randoms can affect you regardless of what character you play. Hence why they are worse.
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Post by q5tyhj on Mar 22, 2018 22:50:11 GMT
yeah I can't really argue with you there; pugs that don't help with/actively fuck up objectives may be the single most annoying thing in the game (*well, besides Geth)... which is one reason I have 100+ Solo Masteries The Geth aren't so bad if you are playing a character that can handle them easily like DemoGirl or Talon guy (or any decent Engineer), but bad randoms can affect you regardless of what character you play. Hence why they are worse. Ok have to disagree with you there, Geth are pretty much always annoying (not to be confused with difficult- Geth aren't difficult, they're right there with Reapers for easiest faction, they're just extremely obnoxious with their troll-turrets and triple rocket-cheaters and other annoying nonsense), and I'd almost always rather put up with bad pugs than cheating butthole Geth.. (also, my Geth Mastery has been stuck for years so I have little incentive for putting up with their bulshit in the first place)
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 23, 2018 5:57:24 GMT
The Geth aren't so bad if you are playing a character that can handle them easily like DemoGirl or Talon guy (or any decent Engineer), but bad randoms can affect you regardless of what character you play. Hence why they are worse. Ok have to disagree with you there, Geth are pretty much always annoying (not to be confused with difficult- Geth aren't difficult, they're right there with Reapers for easiest faction, they're just extremely obnoxious with their troll-turrets and triple rocket-cheaters and other annoying nonsense), and I'd almost always rather put up with bad pugs than cheating butthole Geth.. (also, my Geth Mastery has been stuck for years so I have little incentive for putting up with their bulshit in the first place) Oh no, I know what you meant. They aren't really hard, they have so much cheap nonsense that kind of just makes you sigh and want to give up on life. But I think in Gold they are a nuisance, but on Platinum they are a genuine threat because of the stun lock, damage they do and they have increased health. And Primes go from being an easy boss to the most fearsome one (at least for me anyway). I don't like fighting Geth in general but I don't mind when I am a decent Engineer character. And I don't blame you for the Geth Mastery. Do you outright avoid playing them?
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Post by q5tyhj on Mar 23, 2018 21:17:47 GMT
Ok have to disagree with you there, Geth are pretty much always annoying (not to be confused with difficult- Geth aren't difficult, they're right there with Reapers for easiest faction, they're just extremely obnoxious with their troll-turrets and triple rocket-cheaters and other annoying nonsense), and I'd almost always rather put up with bad pugs than cheating butthole Geth.. (also, my Geth Mastery has been stuck for years so I have little incentive for putting up with their bulshit in the first place) Oh no, I know what you meant. They aren't really hard, they have so much cheap nonsense that kind of just makes you sigh and want to give up on life. But I think in Gold they are a nuisance, but on Platinum they are a genuine threat because of the stun lock, damage they do and they have increased health. And Primes go from being an easy boss to the most fearsome one (at least for me anyway). I don't like fighting Geth in general but I don't mind when I am a decent Engineer character. And I don't blame you for the Geth Mastery. Do you outright avoid playing them? Yep, except for on other factions Platinum where they're unavoidable, and maybe the rare occasion where I'm in the mood to rage-roll Geth with a cheesy kit like the QME or Kroguard
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 26, 2018 5:45:11 GMT
So I finally gave the Vorcha Engineer a real shot. I played him once with Distigious and a few more times tonight. I still can't put my finger on it, but I'm just not a fan. I can see how he's effective, but I just think the Vorcha Sentinel just does it better and he's more fun. Also, is it just me or is it silly that there is such a thing as Vorcha Engineer. Aren't Engineers supposed to be... smart?
Also, I think as an alternative, I really like Paladin on the Fury (as opposed to no lifing the Venom and Crusader). I have it at level 5 and it does so much damage. I wonder how good it is at level 10. I also put the ADAS on DemoGirl and I'm a fan. But I just need to use another gun that is decent against armored enemies. I might take the Hurricane.
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Post by nitrous on Mar 26, 2018 7:11:25 GMT
is it just me or is it silly that there is such a thing as Vorcha Engineer. Aren't Engineers supposed to be... smart? LMAO at this one Although the N7 Paladin doesn't seem to be too smart either, as he obviously entered the wrong class - he's the best Engineer out there to me, and he's way too squishy for a Sentinel, yet he ended up where he is.
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 26, 2018 10:38:58 GMT
too squishy for a Sentinel, yet he ended up where he is He can tank shit with the shield. Plus a well timed light melee to a Banshee warp ball and it doesn't do any damage. He's got more shields at 4 points in fitness than most humans do, plus Energy Drain and shield bonking is a ton of fun against Phantoms. I can understand how he could be an engineer, but he isn't too squishy.
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Post by mordokai on Mar 26, 2018 12:52:14 GMT
I'm going to agree with nitrous that paladin is better engineer than any other engineer and that him being a sentinel doesn't really make sense. He's the only sentinel without TA or any biotic power and while vanilla human sentinels and Valkyrie have only biotic powers, they at least have TA. He... kinda sticks out. Guess they needed a N7 for each class and since demolisher was already casted as engineer, paladin got slapped with omni shield and they called that a close enough.
That said, DistigiousForest makes a good point. Most sentinels have up to 50% DR. Paladin can have 100% DR with his omni shield deployed. Yeah, it requires you to be a stand still target, but I guess that plays up to whole DnD paladin trope, where the paladin's role was to draw fire to himself, so other party members can better kill the enemy.
He's a mechanically unusual class, for sure. But being squishy? Nah.
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 26, 2018 22:54:06 GMT
is it just me or is it silly that there is such a thing as Vorcha Engineer. Aren't Engineers supposed to be... smart? LMAO at this one Although the N7 Paladin doesn't seem to be too smart either, as he obviously entered the wrong class - he's the best Engineer out there to me, and he's way too squishy for a Sentinel, yet he ended up where he is. I'm actually with Distigious on this one. He suits a Sentinel pretty well actually. He has above average shields for a standard human. He is the second tankiest N7 after the Destroyer, and his shield makes him the perfect "guardian" type character. Which is what a Sentinel is. And I don't consider snap freeze as an engineer power (even in MEA, no engineer has snap freeze, its the Batarian and Sentinel like Juggernaut who have it). Engineers are more about disabling enemy defenses and destroying them that way. The Paladin is just pure offense who can block stuff too. And like Distigious said, his shield can allow him to tank hits well. I once had a Praetorian chasing me and started his beam attack. I had no cover near me. So I thought screw it, let me try this. I shielded up, absorbed the hit for no damage, did snap freeze, shielded up for the next beam, did energy drain, shielded up for the third beam, etc. I took no damage from the encounter, but in turn I did good damage to the Praetorian and the cryo explosions killed abominations and troopers around the Praetorian. And with energy drain, he is literally unkillable if you play him right. If he was any tankier, he would be more broken than he already is.
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Post by nitrous on Mar 27, 2018 15:01:18 GMT
Let me try to elaborate what I meant when I said that the Paladin is an Engineer to me, not a Sentinel (of course it goes without saying that this is just my opinion and nothing more). First, let's take a look at how ME defines each class. A Sentinel is supposed to be a mix of biotic and tech powers, with their signature power being Tech Armor. An Engineer is supposed to use tech powers only and is able to summon pets. However, the Paladin only has tech powers and no biotics. Even if you take a look at other Sentinels, you'll see that apart from Volus (who has Shield Boost, which is considered either a tech power or is not attributed to any power class, and two tech powers, Decoy and Combat Drone) every single one of them has a combination of tech and biotic powers. Second, let's have a look at DR. I found a thread in the Resource Library not so long ago that had a lot of detailed information on how it works, as well as a formula for figuring out how the thing really works: On Damage ReductionThe Paladin does not have constant DR as most Sentinels do (apart from Volus and Vorcha, which have different means of defense) - but he can get a decent layer of DR if he uses his Energy Drain. The drawback of ED is it being a very situational power, and while the Paladin should be perfectly fine fighing Geth, the Reapers might give him some hard time, as there are only 2 shielded enemies and no synthetics - and Collectors might make things go FUBAR very quickly because damn them flies. I personally feel much more safe when playing my dodge-less TSent than Paladin (and if I can easily get away with a Cyclonic III or even II on my fat space bird on Platinum depending on my teammates, I'm a scrub and I have to slap a Cyclonic IV on my Paladin if I feel brave enough to play him). He can tank shit with the shield. Plus a well timed light melee to a Banshee warp ball and it doesn't do any damage. And like Distigious said, his shield can allow him to tank hits well. He indeed does have a failsafe button though being his light/heavy melee, but timing the first one and exiting the second might get a bit tricky, especially when played off-host (for instance, I get hit by a Banshee's warp ball 100% of the time because of lag). Yeah, it requires you to be a stand still target, but I guess that plays up to whole DnD paladin trope, where the paladin's role was to draw fire to himself, so other party members can better kill the enemy. And this is where I'm having troubles with this class most. He's not a Juggy, nether he is a Krogan, and he doesn't have any reliable (i.e. that works all the time and under any circumstances) DR. And taking into account that he has Snap Freeze and Incinerate, two offensive powers that can do some heavy damage, he doesn't really qualify for me as a debuffing character only. And he doesn't have a sword. but he isn't too squishy. And with energy drain, he is literally unkillable if you play him right. If he was any tankier, he would be more broken than he already is. I think that my considering him being squishy also has to do with my being a scrub and still having to L2P, so there is also that
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Mar 27, 2018 16:07:53 GMT
The drawback of ED is it being a very situational power I think that my considering him being squishy also has to do with my being a scrub and still having to L2P, so there is also that When I read the former statement I thought of the latter, but, y'know, not in a bad way. My take would be that you're mistaking ED for a power used to restore shields, rather than as a power to either instantly stun for headshots or set off an explosion of some type or other. It can of course restore shields too, but it can certainly be unreliable off-host in that regard. I pretty much only ever play my Paladin with a Paladin (insert gif of choice) and if I don't get a clean sweep of the medals available to him I go home disappointed. It does bother me a little that he can't get Biotic kills as a Sentinel, but otherwise I consider him tanky enough to fit in that Class. If there's any truth (clue: there is) to the old adage that the best way to win is to kill enemies quicker than they kill you, then the Paladin really is the man for the job. I'm reasonably sure that my 3 highest scores in Gold pugs have all been with him, off-host. I might have abused SF in one of those, but in general I'm not that kind of player at all. I might also have been using a Hurricane or CSMG in one of the others - both epic choices for him. Talon is downright dirty. I'm not a particularly aggressive player unless I'm playing as a Krogan, but in the case of the Paladin I would use an Adrenaline mod much more often than a Cyclonic. With a Geth Scanner equipped there's really no excuse for him not being able to dodge somewhere safe or block with his Shield the instant he takes a hit. So, squishy? I would say no. I thoroughly enjoy his versatility, and I prefer the sound of his 'boink' to most other things in the game, which, excluding actual dialogue options would probably consist of the following - 1. Claymoar 2. Krogan laughter 3. Phantom death moan 4. Asarigasm 5. Boink
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 27, 2018 17:21:43 GMT
Hurricane or CSMG in one of the others - both epic choices for him. Talon is downright dirty All great choices on him, I love the Arc Pistol on him too. My new favorite, from CDEM, is slapping a Crusader on him and calling it a day
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 27, 2018 22:37:26 GMT
So, I am generally not a fan of the Acolyte, but I think the Shadow might be the only character in the game that it might be fun on.
Last night I was trying out some Shadow with just the Acolyte. I just wanted to try that gun alone for her. I dealt with Cerberus and the Geth pretty well. But Atlases are so damn tanky and I can't Shadow Strike them (though I did slash away when it didn't know I was behind it). I was using fire rounds for tech detonations from afar and for armor
But I was wondering if armor piercing rounds affect its damage to armor? I can't imagine just using fire rounds/Acolyte against Praetorians and Atlases. It took sort of long against a single Atlas last night. I know projectile type weapons generally don't benefit from AP rounds. But I'm not sure if the Acolyte is considered one or not.
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 27, 2018 23:04:33 GMT
So, I am generally not a fan of the Acolyte, but I think the Shadow might be the only character in the game that it might be fun on. Last night I was trying out some Shadow with just the Acolyte. I just wanted to try that gun alone for her. I dealt with Cerberus and the Geth pretty well. But Atlases are so damn tanky and I can't Shadow Strike them (though I did slash away when it didn't know I was behind it). I was using fire rounds for tech detonations from afar and for armor But I was wondering if armor piercing rounds affect its damage to armor? I can't imagine just using fire rounds/Acolyte against Praetorians and Atlases. It took sort of long against a single Atlas last night. I know projectile type weapons generally don't benefit from AP rounds. But I'm not sure if the Acolyte is considered one or not. Acolyte is a projectile weapon and therefore suffers no armor damage penalty. You can put AP rounds on it, but you'll only get the damage boost. No increased armor damage and no piercing. Fire ammo is probably the best for it since that will help against armor. If you haven't used the Acolyte on a Vanguard, you're doing something wrong because it's probably the best class for the Acolyte other than Adepts or super specific builds like the Throwslinger or Iceslinger.
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Post by obbie1984 on Mar 27, 2018 23:49:05 GMT
So, I am generally not a fan of the Acolyte, but I think the Shadow might be the only character in the game that it might be fun on. Last night I was trying out some Shadow with just the Acolyte. I just wanted to try that gun alone for her. I dealt with Cerberus and the Geth pretty well. But Atlases are so damn tanky and I can't Shadow Strike them (though I did slash away when it didn't know I was behind it). I was using fire rounds for tech detonations from afar and for armor But I was wondering if armor piercing rounds affect its damage to armor? I can't imagine just using fire rounds/Acolyte against Praetorians and Atlases. It took sort of long against a single Atlas last night. I know projectile type weapons generally don't benefit from AP rounds. But I'm not sure if the Acolyte is considered one or not. Acolyte is a projectile weapon and therefore suffers no armor damage penalty. You can put AP rounds on it, but you'll only get the damage boost. No increased armor damage and no piercing. Fire ammo is probably the best for it since that will help against armor. If you haven't used the Acolyte on a Vanguard, you're doing something wrong because it's probably the best class for the Acolyte other than Adepts or super specific builds like the Throwslinger or Iceslinger. I have played Vanguards with Acolyte. The human, the Slayer, and the Cerberus Vanguards in particular. Its just boring in my opinion. I find I don't really need it anyway.
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Post by nitrous on Mar 28, 2018 13:26:05 GMT
When I read the former statement I thought of the latter, but, y'know, not in a bad way. Even if it was in a bad way, I wouldn't mind it at all - I'm here to find people who love this game, are more experienced and who can help me to git gud, and by telling me to L2P you're indeed helping me a lot It's just that the whole process of L2P is quite lengthy and involves lots of failures and swearing, you know :/ My take would be that you're mistaking ED for a power used to restore shields, rather than as a power to either instantly stun for headshots or set off an explosion of some type or other. It can of course restore shields too, but it can certainly be unreliable off-host in that regard. Yes, I indeed did treat it mostly as my main DR source, and failed badly, because not every enemy has shields or is synthetic, and even I use ED on those who do, the lag can be so bad I end up being dead by the time I get that layer of protection (or the ED would hit nothing at all, because the game registered it as a miss). If there's any truth (clue: there is) to the old adage that the best way to win is to kill enemies quicker than they kill you, then the Paladin really is the man for the job. I'm reasonably sure that my 3 highest scores in Gold pugs have all been with him, off-host. I might have abused SF in one of those, but in general I'm not that kind of player at all. I might also have been using a Hurricane or CSMG in one of the others - both epic choices for him. Talon is downright dirty. I'm not a particularly aggressive player unless I'm playing as a Krogan, but in the case of the Paladin I would use an Adrenaline mod much more often than a Cyclonic. With a Geth Scanner equipped there's really no excuse for him not being able to dodge somewhere safe or block with his Shield the instant he takes a hit. So, squishy? I would say no. Unfortunately, my aim is bad, so taking a weapon like the Paladin would be a great mistake for me - I prefer spray and pray type of guns for myself like the Hurricane. I have the CSMG at V at the moment, so the clip is still too short for it to be gold-viable, IMHO, and my being a noob doesn't help either as I manage to overheat the thing and get killed during the reload animation. I like the Talon though, as it is a lightweight pocket shotgun that packs quite a punch even at V, so I'll give it a try as well. However, I'm one of those poor people who can't use the Geth Scanner - I'm photosensitive, and I can get some nasty headaches if something is obstructing my vision (and the Geth Scanner is bad in both aspects), so I have to guesstimate where the enemies are. But this gear seems to be almost an essential piece of equipment on him, so I feel like I'm missing out a lot. And I'm a scrub, so a Cyclonic is still a must - I tend to stick to cover or exit it - or even do a barrel combat roll when I need it least, so I need some extra shields to make up for my clumsiness. I thoroughly enjoy his versatility, and I prefer the sound of his 'boink' to most other things in the game, which, excluding actual dialogue options would probably consist of the following - 1. Claymoar 2. Krogan laughter 3. Phantom death moan 4. Asarigasm 5. Boink What about that Raider BANG-BANG? Or quarian "MY SOUP!!!1"? And I also love the sound a Crab makes when it gets knocked down - it's so GUD to hear that shit finally getting what it deserves
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 28, 2018 13:38:19 GMT
Unfortunately, my aim is bad, so taking a weapon like the Paladin would be a great mistake for me - I prefer spray and pray type of guns for myself like the Hurricane. I have the CSMG at V at the moment, so the clip is still too short for it to be gold-viable, IMHO, and my being a noob doesn't help either as I manage to overheat the thing and get killed during the reload animation. I like the Talon though, as it is a lightweight pocket shotgun that packs quite a punch even at V, so I'll give it a try as well. However, I'm one of those poor people who can't use the Geth Scanner - I'm photosensitive, and I can get some nasty headaches if something is obstructing my vision (and the Geth Scanner is bad in both aspects), so I have to guesstimate where the enemies are. But this gear seems to be almost an essential piece of equipment on him, so I feel like I'm missing out a lot. And I'm a scrub, so a Cyclonic is still a must - I tend to stick to cover or exit it - or even do a barrel combat roll when I need it least, so I need some extra shields to make up for my clumsiness. CSMG is still good at V, you just need to take the Mag Upgrade as the Heat Sink does nothing for the beam weapons (ones with unlimited ammo). Here is the build I used for a recent plat match with obbie. I didn't really miss GS, it's not an essential piece of equipment because you can go off of sounds and the only cloaked enemies are Hunters and Phantoms. If you have certain spawn points locked up you can pretty much predict where the enemies will come from. I mean it helped we were on [Haz] White and that's my favorite map and I know where enemies will rush from.
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Post by nitrous on Mar 28, 2018 14:34:07 GMT
SMG is still good at V, you just need to take the Mag Upgrade as the Heat Sink does nothing for the beam weapons (ones with unlimited ammo). Here is the build I used for a recent plat match with obbie. I didn't really miss GS, it's not an essential piece of equipment because you can go off of sounds and the only cloaked enemies are Hunters and Phantoms. If you have certain spawn points locked up you can pretty much predict where the enemies will come from. I mean it helped we were on [Haz] White and that's my favorite map and I know where enemies will rush from. Thanks a lot for the build link! I always take that mod because I've learned it's pretty much a must on ammo-recharging weapons. And as for sounds - that's what I called guesstimating because I usually play in headphones, so I can tell where the enemies are and what they are in most cases (although sometimes the sound seems to be a bit confusing as it is generated in the wrong place, especially when a wave starts), so I also check if there's a GS user on my team and follow them around. Since there's little chance they'll run straight into hell, my survivability also somewhat gets better
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 28, 2018 14:50:28 GMT
Since there's little chance they'll run straight into hell, my survivability also somewhat gets better Hopefully you're not following me then lol
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Post by nitrous on Mar 28, 2018 15:11:00 GMT
Hopefully you're not following me then lol Anyone who's a better player than me is a perfect target, and you are, so there's quite a high chance I will But I usually stick to my Juggy friend unless he decides to kill crap faster than it can spawn, which would force me to break off and go die somewhere on the other end of the map
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Post by DistigousForest on Mar 28, 2018 15:15:41 GMT
Anyone who's a better player than me is a perfect target, and you are, so there's quite a high chance I will I don't think there's any chance...different platform
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