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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 14:53:34 GMT
Yup. If she was recruited the best bet is still to vote her off because if they vote off a hero instead of hb then tonight there will be a third recruit. I'll second that. Plus, she could still be HB since it doesn't say. Always vote off known evils.
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Post by romice on Feb 19, 2018 14:59:38 GMT
Heroes, I suggest that you focus on finding out who the other Venatori is. I have a strong feeling pela's problem will fix itself during the night So pela was the heart breaker? Or the turned one? I also have reason to believe she's the HB. Nothing is certain with those things, of course.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 15:05:24 GMT
Err I got distracted.
It's 100% obvious Pela needs to be voted off this turn.
But having a target doesn't mean we should waste daylight without a few interrogations. There are two evilz left. Good to check logs who Pela voted with/against etc.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 19, 2018 15:55:10 GMT
I think we need to clarify something here. Since I have already been in trouble for interpreting a role differently I am asking it now about another role because I think it is important because my understanding of the words used may differ from the original creator.
If someone is "detained" and then subsequently "released" that suggests the person is in custody and unable to act until the decision has been made to release them. If the person who is "detained" is then "executed" then their ability to do anything else is immediately ended. Thus voting off such a person would be a waste of time since they were already scheduled for elimination at the beginning of Night 4 and cannot do any further damage. That is my understanding of the role undertaking this action but I have already been wrong once so I would like this confirmed or not as the case may be.
I think this is rather important to the current situation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 16:23:27 GMT
If someone is "detained" and then subsequently "released" that suggests the person is in custody and unable to act until the decision has been made to release them. If the person who is "detained" is then "executed" then their ability to do anything else is immediately ended. Varric/Dragon shot Pela before dying. His ability was not cancelled just because he was targeted for death on the same night they've activated the ability. This is exactly the same. If the word 'detained' is confusing, I can change it to 'questioned.' Cassandra's interrogation does not affect in any way anything the player can do on any night. Cass does not role block ever - n3 or n4. If the player wants to use an ability on the same night Cass wants to kill them, both abilities proceed. 'Detained' doesn't mean she spends 24/7 literally glued to her suspect. She can throw some tables at them for 10 mins like she does with Varric and then they go separate ways. She can return and make arrest (or execute) later. The person has plenty of time to do whatever they want after or before Cass decides to question them. No, she cannot in addition to getting information also role block a person for two nights in a row while the person is 'detained.' That's extremely overpowered to have a player blocked for two turns in a row and then possibly killed. Her skill to question and maybe kill is powerful enough without role block. Cass is not a blocking/defensive role type. She is a hybrid of investigative and killing.
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Post by romice on Feb 19, 2018 17:46:28 GMT
In light of recent developments (or rule clarifications, I seem to understand roles the same way as gervaise it seems) I will vote for pelassarias, as I believe she is the HB.
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Post by pelassarias on Feb 19, 2018 18:32:41 GMT
Darn! I suppose it was too much to hope that I would be immune to any other night time abilities while jailed! (Not that I really mind! I just wasn't sure, since sometimes the jailed is immune in some games. I don't particularly mind in this case since two Heroes used their ability on just little me, hehe.) Good luck catching my accomplice, Heroes! You're going to need it, mwuahahah! ETA: Am I HB? OR was I turned? Did I vote with my accomplice, or did I make sure to separate myself from them, like in my other game as spy? Questions, Questions, Questions....
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Post by dragontartare on Feb 19, 2018 18:51:18 GMT
Nice shot dragon varric! Try making that into a nickname. Varrictartare? what made you suspect pela? And welcome to the loo. When I was asking people in the last round why they were voting for OG even after OG had left a hint, I realized that pela never gave me a straight answer. Pela gave an answer that might have made some sense on the surface for a confused player, but it was evasive and also tried to shift my suspicions toward adonniel for supposedly the same reason. Poor Varrictartare. At least you've got lucky. Some luck, mostly careful reading with a side of, "oh hell, why not?"
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Post by fylimar on Feb 19, 2018 18:58:37 GMT
dragontartare: That was one hell of a 'oh hell, why not?' I agree, that we should vote the spy we know - and if we're lucky, she could be HB, it's a 50/50 chance So I go with pelassarias
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Post by pelassarias on Feb 19, 2018 19:18:04 GMT
Nice shot dragon varric! Try making that into a nickname. Varrictartare? what made you suspect pela? And welcome to the loo. When I was asking people in the last round why they were voting for OG even after OG had left a hint, I realized that pela never gave me a straight answer. Pela gave an answer that might have made some sense on the surface for a confused player, but it was evasive and also tried to shift my suspicions toward adonniel for supposedly the same reason. Good reason and good shot! Oh, and I suppose I still have to vote. I'll vote random (or is it!?! ), I'll vote Romice.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 19, 2018 19:31:39 GMT
Darn! I suppose it was too much to hope that I would be immune to any other night time abilities while jailed! I don't particularly mind in this case since two Heroes used their ability on just little me, hehe.) Adonniel, might it not be an idea that if Cassandra has taken someone in for questioning, they are then immune to other abilities for that night and the GM tells them to save them for another time (or choose someone else). There does seem too much potential for multi-players to target just one person and thus waste their ability. It is fine when it is re-useable (Leliana) but when it is only one use it seems a shame it is wasted. Admittedly this time it worked out for the best as Dragon's action helped confirm the guilt but what if it didn't? Also what would have happened if Florianne had targeted Pelassarias instead of you? Relevant because next time it will be a kill ability, so in that instance both Varric and Cassandra would have wasted their ability. People so often get eliminated without using their ability that it is disappointing when they do get the chance and yet they end up duplicating someone else. Just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:01:59 GMT
pelassarias and gervaise21 I am aware of the Mafia game on line and jailor role in that game. This is not the same game and the ability does not have the same effects. Cass questioning someone does not imply locking up that player in jail. This means she talks to them. Since they are not locked up in jail, their abilities do not get blocked and they are not immune to other players using special abilities on them. Gerva - If you have questions about abilities pm me. I don't believe the middle of the game is the appropriate time to criticize various rules or roles and especially attempting to change them. Any suggestions for the roles or rules should be discussed in between the game rounds and if there are changes, the GM must inform players before a new round begins. I don't think initiating public discussions about what the roles do or how the rules should be changed in the middle of the voting rounds is a good timing. If the wording of the special abilities is confusing, I can fix the wording. However, I do not believe there is a need to change what any of the current special abilities do.
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Post by pelassarias on Feb 19, 2018 20:23:17 GMT
Yeah, those are completely fair points, gervaise and adonniel. I just wasn't sure since the jailor role differs in other games. But in this game, giving the jailed immunity would be OP since Varric/Mabari only has one shot/cuddle and there's no way for them to know that their target is jailed. Plus, the spies could go away without a kill, which could give them a serious disadvantage in some cases. Regardless, the previous nights were fun I gotta say! A part of me hopes this game will go by quickly so I can actually discuss this game! I'm kind of dying over here!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 20:38:17 GMT
Yeah, those are completely fair points, gervaise and adonniel. I just wasn't sure since the jailor role differs in other games. But in this game, giving the jailed immunity would be OP since Varric/Mabari only has one shot/cuddle and there's no way for them to know that their target is jailed. Plus, the spies could go away without a kill, which could give them a serious disadvantage in some cases. Regardless, the previous nights were fun I gotta say! A part of me hopes this game will go by quickly so I can actually discuss this game! I'm kind of dying over here! HB is certainly an interesting twist and it can be extremely threatening from the heroes perspective. I really wander which role you are and which role you evils have abducted.
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Feb 19, 2018 20:46:30 GMT
Nice narrative gervaise! A dwarf running to the loo with a crossbow is giving me some game of thrones vibes I'm voting for pelassarias.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 19, 2018 21:07:25 GMT
Gerva - If you have questions about abilities pm me. I don't believe the middle of the game is the appropriate time to criticize various rules or roles and especially attempting to change them. I was merely making suggestions. I don't appreciated being constantly criticised for things you have done yourself in the past.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 21:45:57 GMT
Gerva - If you have questions about abilities pm me. I don't believe the middle of the game is the appropriate time to criticize various rules or roles and especially attempting to change them. I was merely making suggestions. I don't appreciated being constantly criticised for things you have done yourself in the past. Please delete this post and move this discussion to pm. This conversation specifically in this thread is closed. I don't think the players need to see our debate.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 19, 2018 22:14:15 GMT
No, I won't remove the post. If you want to criticise me then you can do it for everyone to see. Better still just leave me to run the game. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 22:53:35 GMT
No, I won't remove the post. If you want to criticise me then you can do it for everyone to see. Better still just leave me to run the game. Thank you. Do finish it entirely without my presence then. I was trying to help with the voting situation. If all I say is taken as offense, there is no need for me to state my opinion any longer on anything. You may announce my role and removal from the game at the end of the voting round along with Pela. But this suggestion is too horribly offensive.
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Post by Serza on Feb 19, 2018 23:19:40 GMT
I'd tell you to wait for me to bring the popcorn, but you're arguing.
Leave the assholery to me.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 19, 2018 23:36:05 GMT
Anyone care to mediate?
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Post by dragontartare on Feb 19, 2018 23:45:51 GMT
Uh...adonniel, I don’t think gervaise was trying to offend you or criticize all the work you put into this game. The role interactions are complex, and people who play multiple versions of the game are naturally going to get a bit confused and wonder how the roles all fit together.
I think we have two people who are emotionally invested here, one because she created most of the roles and maybe feels that any criticisms are personal, since she put so much in the game...and then we have a new GM, who is trying to do their best in a role that is more complex and intimidating than it looks, and trying to do so in two games at once.
So maybe just press pause on the role discussions for the time being, with the understanding that future discussions aren’t intended as an attack on anyone’s hard work?
Yeah, I’m...not a mediator.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 19, 2018 23:59:17 GMT
Uh...adonniel, I don’t think gervaise was trying to offend you or criticize all the work you put into this game. The role interactions are complex, and people who play multiple versions of the game are naturally going to get a bit confused and wonder how the roles all fit together. I think we have two people who are emotionally invested here, one because she created most of the roles and maybe feels that any criticisms are personal, since she put so much in the game...and then we have a new GM, who is trying to do their best in a role that is more complex and intimidating than it looks, and trying to do so in two games at once. So maybe just press pause on the role discussions for the time being, with the understanding that future discussions aren’t intended as an attack on anyone’s hard work? Yeah, I’m...not a mediator. Well said. I'm not a mediator either. As you've seen recently
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 20, 2018 0:12:11 GMT
Thank you, Dragon. I take that as a vote of confidence that you don't feel I have been messing your Citadel game up too much. Also thank you Space as well.
Unfortunately, it has already been made clear to me in private that my efforts as GM here have not been appreciated and I have been given notice that I will not be allowed to run it beyond the end of this one. However, for the sake of the other players I want to see this through to the end because I thought that people were enjoying it and the situation was becoming really interesting. I am sorry for all the bad feeling between Adonniel and me.
It is late and I am tired, so I think I will just go to bed now. Please just carry on as normal and finish the voting and I will pick it up again in the morning.
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Post by pelassarias on Feb 20, 2018 0:35:15 GMT
No wait, you guys. This is partially my fault. The whole reason why this discussion is going on is because I brought up the whole jailed immunity thing. If I'm confused about any other roles/abilities I'll make sure to PM the current game master, and if the current game master isn't adonniel, they should make sure to check it over with adonniel before they make any changes or if they're unsure about any roles/abilities. Also, I completely understand adonniel's frustration about changing roles without pming about it first. She has worked hard on balancing this game, and even though she isn't current GM, discussing this with her first over PM would be a good idea to do. She's an experienced GM after all and can provide insight on the roles and whether or not said changes are necessary. I also understand gervaise's frustration as well. This is gervaise's first time as GM, so far I think they're doing a great job, but kinks are to be expected with you're doing anything as a novice. Also I completely agree with dragon's statement about how gervaise wasn't trying to overly criticize or offend all the hard work adonniel has put into this game. So before we do anything drastic, I implore the both of you to try to reach an understanding and beneficial solution between one another. You guys have both done a great job so far as players and GMS, and this game has been so interesting and fun. I would hate to see this go sour because of my big mouth or anything else.
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