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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 27, 2018 23:04:02 GMT
Here are the relevant tweets: Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah- I’m going to regret this in half an hour but let’s talk “did MEA get a fair shake”
- First off, the question was not “is MEA secretly a great game and did mean Nintendo make us fail?” MEA is a deeply flawed game. Especially at launch.
- But the review environment was crowded. Nier, Nioh, Horizon, and Zelda all launched in MEAs window. Each does something better than MEA (again, a flawed game).
- As a result, even systems that are pretty decent get scrutinized against superiorly implemented ones. Does launching in a different window turn 72% into 90? Certainly not. 72 into 77/78? Maybe.
- Does that affect sales? Some. But word of mouth matters so much these days.
- And here’s the thing. That’s the nature of the industry. You don’t have full control over when you launch and no control over when others do. DAI benefited by how tough a year 2014 turned out to be for games.
- You launch the best game you can. MEA has a lot of problems and got lapped by genuinely better games.
- I certainly think it was a mistake to have the review embargo lift AFTER the early access hit
- Yes: [even disregarding the animation errors, the game still had problems.]
- The flaws of MEA and DA2 are kind of opposites. They are interesting to compare to each other.
- [Commenting on MEA's engine' and 'scope']: It was too big.
[comments in brackets are the words of others being reacted to]
Personally, I find this a straight-talking and adult conversation worthy of respect. Not what people would expect to hear from a division of EA, I suspect, but good to read in my view.
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Post by river82 on Jun 27, 2018 23:16:24 GMT
Already made a general comment about this in the other thread. So I just wanted to focus in on one specific area: The flaws of MEA and DA2 are kind of opposites. They are interesting to compare to each other. [Commenting on MEA's engine' and 'scope']: It was too big. [comments in brackets are the words of others being reacted to] Truer words have never been spoken. Seriously, it's good to hear them say this.
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Post by river82 on Jun 27, 2018 23:23:09 GMT
Personally, I find this a straight-talking and adult conversation worthy of respect. 100% agree. It's refreshing, we need more of this in the industry.
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Post by Pearl on Jun 27, 2018 23:25:14 GMT
Agreed. My respect for Darrah went up considerably as a result of this conversation. The only counterpoint I can really make is that there are interviews on record where EA leads claimed that they offered Bioware more time on Andromeda (something like six months iirc), and Bio turned them down. Whether there's any truth to that, or if it's just EA throwing them under the bus is up for debate, but I find it difficult to believe that EA would lie about something like that in relation to one of their biggest franchises.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 27, 2018 23:29:48 GMT
So BioWare made a deadline and not a game, what a shock.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 27, 2018 23:45:23 GMT
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Post by simit on Jun 27, 2018 23:51:56 GMT
all i got is
/sigh
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Post by phoray on Jun 28, 2018 2:47:51 GMT
I think I shake my head at the people who made such a big deal out of one comment that a dev needed to go on soap box about it. but then again, I'm the one who made a thread about the tweet about there no longer being Whore Houses in DA franchise going forward that lasted over 30 pages soooooooooooo.... At least I kept it in my own little niche of the internet?
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2018 7:52:01 GMT
You know Mark ME:A is a good game.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 28, 2018 10:14:20 GMT
You know Mark ME:A is a good game. Yes, and seems to be actually much better on the 2nd run that I'm going through now.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 28, 2018 13:23:36 GMT
So BioWare made a deadline and not a game, what a shock. Yeah, I get the sense that devs are okay with putting out unpolished games, figuring they can fix it all after release. It's problematic when there's enough wrong to make memes out of it. Still, I think MEA is an overall good game. It would be even better if a second game helped tie up some loose ends.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 28, 2018 13:26:45 GMT
Yeah, I get the sense that devs are okay with putting out unpolished games Really? I don't get any sense that devs are happy to have to deliver a buggy game. Where do you get that from?
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 28, 2018 13:30:45 GMT
Yeah, I get the sense that devs are okay with putting out unpolished games Really? I don't get any sense that devs are happy to have to deliver a buggy game. Where do you get that from? Just from what I've seen. Let's say devs aren't happy but corporate people just want a set release date and they seem okay with an unpolished game. That's probably a more accurate statement.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 28, 2018 13:38:40 GMT
Just from what I've seen. Let's say devs aren't happy but corporate people just want a set release date and they seem okay with an unpolished game. That's probably a more accurate statement. Sure... if seeming okay about it means you want to still get paid. It's too easy, in my view, to dismiss the real-world pressures, financial or otherwise on a game that's having 'issues'. Most people in a difficult work situation will do their best. Doing their best doesn't mean there aren't things they would change if they could.
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Post by dazk on Jul 3, 2018 2:59:00 GMT
You know Mark ME:A is a good game. Well said.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 4, 2018 3:45:00 GMT
I feel like, at the end of the day, these are all problems that could have been avoided with better time/resource management. They could have pre-empted a crowded release window if they had been better prepared.
They wasted literal YEARS on procedural generation technology that went nowhere, when first priority should have been making sure they had a complete core experience. You can always add side content later.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 10, 2018 1:25:54 GMT
You know Mark ME:A is a good game. He didn't say it wasn't. Deeply flawed =/= bad game. Refreshing.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 10, 2018 1:50:19 GMT
All this does is create more division.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 10, 2018 3:20:50 GMT
All this does is create more division. Oh good grief. It confirms for many of us, that indeed the BioWare devs are not drooling idiots, and they knew that despite making a game that was maybe good, it was flawed. That awareness brings me back closer to BioWare, not further. Just because some of you loved MEA doesn't make his thoughts divisive. Just because his thoughts concur with some of mine on MEA doesn't mean I'm right about my feelings on the game, and that you are wrong in yours. Constructive criticism. Admitting flaws. These are things admirable people can handle and deliver. You could learn a lot from Mark Darrah.
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Post by clips7 on Jul 10, 2018 10:42:17 GMT
The game did get a fair shake, but clearly this game was not ready to be dropped in March. I still say EA had something to do with it being released because they wanted the game to be included in their fiscal year cycle. They probably figured we can release it, but quickly roll out patches to fix the obvious animation issues, but by the time they did that, the memes all over the internet killed it, but even outside of the animation issues as i've stated all along, Andromeda had character and story issues you just can't fix with patches.
Reviews of the game itself by respected sites all pointed to issues with the story, pacing and un-inspired writing and characters.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 10, 2018 21:58:21 GMT
The game did get a fair shake, but clearly this game was not ready to be dropped in March. I still say EA had something to do with it being released because they wanted the game to be included in their fiscal year cycle. They probably figured we can release it, but quickly roll out patches to fix the obvious animation issues, but by the time they did that, the memes all over the internet killed it, but even outside of the animation issues as i've stated all along, Andromeda had character and story issues you just can't fix with patches. Reviews of the game itself by respected sites all pointed to issues with the story, pacing and un-inspired writing and characters. Which I disagree with. But I’m not gonna accuse them of corrupt journalism.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 10, 2018 22:02:33 GMT
All this does is create more division. Oh good grief. It confirms for many of us, that indeed the BioWare devs are not drooling idiots, and they knew that despite making a game that was maybe good, it was flawed. That awareness brings me back closer to BioWare, not further. Just because some of you loved MEA doesn't make his thoughts divisive. Just because his thoughts concur with some of mine on MEA doesn't mean I'm right about my feelings on the game, and that you are wrong in yours. Constructive criticism. Admitting flaws. These are things admirable people can handle and deliver. You could learn a lot from Mark Darrah. Of course they knew why else would they hastily release patches after launch? The fact that he even acknowledge the good parts it had showed me that he just trying to appeal to the people who dislike the game.
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Post by clips7 on Jul 11, 2018 1:21:17 GMT
The game did get a fair shake, but clearly this game was not ready to be dropped in March. I still say EA had something to do with it being released because they wanted the game to be included in their fiscal year cycle. They probably figured we can release it, but quickly roll out patches to fix the obvious animation issues, but by the time they did that, the memes all over the internet killed it, but even outside of the animation issues as i've stated all along, Andromeda had character and story issues you just can't fix with patches. Reviews of the game itself by respected sites all pointed to issues with the story, pacing and un-inspired writing and characters. Which I disagree with. But I’m not gonna accuse them of corrupt journalism. But why would accuse them of implementing corrupt journalism? I can understand the trolls on youtube just going in on the Andromeda animation issues for kicks and clickbates, but respected sites such as Gamespot, Gameinformer, IGN and others?.....all had similar thoughts on the game outside of it's animation issues and it's a valid argument that has been stated by Mass Effect fans in general. You can disagree with their opinion on their issue, but that does not make their opinion of their view on it corrupt.
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Post by Arijharn on Aug 2, 2018 11:36:26 GMT
They wasted literal YEARS on procedural generation technology that went nowhere, when first priority should have been making sure they had a complete core experience. You can always add side content later. That would depend on whether procedural generation technology was actually part of the 'complete core experience' during its development. Lots of things don't make it into a final game for whatever reason, cut characters, cut story, cut mission locales etc.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 2, 2018 12:44:28 GMT
They wasted literal YEARS on procedural generation technology that went nowhere, when first priority should have been making sure they had a complete core experience. You can always add side content later. That would depend on whether procedural generation technology was actually part of the 'complete core experience' during its development. Lots of things don't make it into a final game for whatever reason, cut characters, cut story, cut mission locales etc. Well they spent over a year on developing that technology, and never made it work. Regardless of what they wanted the core experience to be initially, they should have cut their losses much earlier.
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