LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 909 Likes: 1,846
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 2, 2018 20:24:37 GMT
You launch the best game you can. MEA has a lot of problems and got lapped by genuinely better games. I absolutely agree with this. Games don't exist in a vacuum, and while I don't think "good years" and "bad years" for gaming excuse a shitty game, I absolutely think that what's happening in the industry and the previous games in a particular franchise affect people's perceptions and enjoyment of a game. I know MEA wasn't what I expected, but once I let my preconceptions go I really enjoyed the game i played. It was a good start to a potential series.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 4, 2018 3:53:19 GMT
Not really contributing much here, but I must point out that if this is what BioWare creates when they do a poor job...it's still better than a lot of companies at their best.
It is something I have been acutely aware of for a while, and I didn't really like Andromeda all that much ultimately. There is something there...
It's just not up to BioWare standard.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 4, 2018 6:26:16 GMT
Mark is simply coping out from taking responsibility for the failure of ME:A, by displacing blame on Zelda which is clearly an Action/Adventure Nintendo Exclusive game which has nothing to do with as Mark calls it "the busiest month for RPGs".
And is not the busiest month but the fact of the matter is that Andromeda is a horrible game, because of it's poor development, indecisiveness, poor communication, inexperienced designers, and poor leadership. All those five years of development wasted, and he makes an excuse instead of admitting the fact that they messed up the game?
Bottom line is: Stop making excuses and take responsibility for your failures, by learning from mistakes and do better. Wow!! I'm beginning to wonder how BioWare is still alive.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 10:49:48 GMT
Bottom line is: Stop making excuses and take responsibility for your failures, by learning from mistakes and do better. Wow!! I'm beginning to wonder how BioWare is still alive. Did you read the OP? For sure, the Zelda line was pretty weak, and it wasn't 'his' game to take responsibility for (rather rude to dump on Montreal). But he's brutally clear on the flaws.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 4, 2018 11:48:54 GMT
Bottom line is: Stop making excuses and take responsibility for your failures, by learning from mistakes and do better. Wow!! I'm beginning to wonder how BioWare is still alive. Did you read the OP? For sure, the Zelda line was pretty weak, and it wasn't 'his' game to take responsibility for (rather rude to dump on Montreal). But he's brutally clear on the flaws. I've already read the report long before you made the post about it. And if he admitted the game is a failure then why did he said that Andromeda didn't get a fair shot and blame it on an Nintendo game?
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 11:56:54 GMT
I've already read the report long before you made the post about it. And if he admitted the game is a failure then why did he said that Andromeda didn't get a fair shot and blame it on an Nintendo game? I don't think you read it very well then, let me quote it for you correctly: Mark said the game was flawed not that it was a failure. To say that a game didn't get a fair shot is not incompatible with it being flawed - I don't think it got a fair shot either, from a section of the gaming community that seems to enjoy whining about BioWare's content. The biggest issue with Andromeda to my mind is that animation and story elements were mediocre, particularly when compared to the Trilogy and newer games. I don't think it's a 'bad' game, but it's not an 'outstanding' game. He did overstate the importance of Zelda's impact in my view, but that was one point amongst several reasonable ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 12:25:54 GMT
Did you read the OP? For sure, the Zelda line was pretty weak, and it wasn't 'his' game to take responsibility for (rather rude to dump on Montreal). But he's brutally clear on the flaws. I've already read the report long before you made the post about it. And if he admitted the game is a failure then why did he said that Andromeda didn't get a fair shot and blame it on an Nintendo game? The failure of a AAA game is rarely down to one factor, it's multi-layered. Andromeda was fatally flawed, and he admits that, but it did also have the misfortune of releasing in a stellar month of video game releases. Ppl have limited budgets and can only buy so much every month. There's no doubt many gamers chose Zelda or Horizon over MEA, so he's not wrong in that respect.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 12:27:26 GMT
I enjoyed Horizon more than MEA, I'm not guilty about that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 12:30:58 GMT
I enjoyed Horizon more than MEA, I'm not guilty about that. From what I've heard it's an incredible game. But I won't tell the other mods, they might sack you.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 12:34:10 GMT
From what I've heard it's an incredible game. But I won't tell the other mods, they might sack you. Always a risk... (sorry to digress, on with the discussion *cough* )
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 4, 2018 14:20:41 GMT
I've already read the report long before you made the post about it. And if he admitted the game is a failure then why did he said that Andromeda didn't get a fair shot and blame it on an Nintendo game? I don't think you read it very well then, let me quote it for you correctly: Mark said the game was flawed not that it was a failure. To say that a game didn't get a fair shot is not incompatible with it being flawed - I don't think it got a fair shot either, from a section of the gaming community that seems to enjoy whining about BioWare's content. The biggest issue with Andromeda to my mind is that animation and story elements were mediocre, particularly when compared to the Trilogy and newer games. I don't think it's a 'bad' game, but it's not an 'outstanding' game. He did overstate the importance of Zelda's impact in my view, but that was one point amongst several reasonable ones. 2:53-3:12
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 4, 2018 15:32:17 GMT
I don't think you read it very well then, let me quote it for you correctly: Mark said the game was flawed not that it was a failure. To say that a game didn't get a fair shot is not incompatible with it being flawed - I don't think it got a fair shot either, from a section of the gaming community that seems to enjoy whining about BioWare's content. The biggest issue with Andromeda to my mind is that animation and story elements were mediocre, particularly when compared to the Trilogy and newer games. I don't think it's a 'bad' game, but it's not an 'outstanding' game. He did overstate the importance of Zelda's impact in my view, but that was one point amongst several reasonable ones. 2:53-3:12 Yes, that's the original GI video that he followed up with the tweets in the OP. Do you have point to make?
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 5, 2018 17:57:34 GMT
Yes, that's the original GI video that he followed up with the tweets in the OP. Do you have point to make? I've already made my point in my first comment. And if he claims that Andromeda is not a failure, then why did the Montreal Studio has been shut down, and absorbed by EA when it didn't meet their expectations on sales?
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 5, 2018 18:22:51 GMT
I've already made my point in my first comment. And if he claims that Andromeda is not a failure, then why did the Montreal Studio has been shut down, and absorbed by EA when it didn't meet their expectations on sales? Great, it would have been nice then had you referenced whatever that point was when dropping a video in as a reply without context. [goes to read your comments] Yes, I already responded to that. "For sure, the Zelda line was pretty weak, and it wasn't 'his' game to take responsibility for (rather rude to dump on Montreal). But he's brutally clear on the flaws."He didn't claim it was a failure or a success, he said he thought it was flawed but that it didn't get a 'fair shake', both of which I agree with. And as Mark didn't comment on whether he thought MEA was a failure or a success, the absorption of Montreal isn't really relevant. Except to say that it must have been quite clear 4 months post-launch that there was an insufficient install-base to justify DLC, so they closed it up after patching was completed.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 5, 2018 21:32:08 GMT
I've already made my point in my first comment. And if he claims that Andromeda is not a failure, then why did the Montreal Studio has been shut down, and absorbed by EA when it didn't meet their expectations on sales? Great, it would have been nice then had you referenced whatever that point was when dropping a video in as a reply without context. [goes to read your comments] Yes, I already responded to that. "For sure, the Zelda line was pretty weak, and it wasn't 'his' game to take responsibility for (rather rude to dump on Montreal). But he's brutally clear on the flaws."He didn't claim it was a failure or a success, he said he thought it was flawed but that it didn't get a 'fair shake', both of which I agree with. And as Mark didn't comment on whether he thought MEA was a failure or a success, the absorption of Montreal isn't really relevant. Except to say that it must have been quite clear 4 months post-launch that there was an insufficient install-base to justify DLC, so they closed it up after patching was completed. I know what he said. Is the fact that he downplayed the failure of Andromeda by saying that it didn't get a fair shot, instead of being honest about that they did get a fair shot, but it didn't because they screwed up 5 years of development. I think he knows the game was a complete failure, he just want to cover up the collateral damage.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 5, 2018 22:18:15 GMT
I know what he said. Is the fact that he downplayed the failure of Andromeda by saying that it didn't get a fair shot, instead of being honest about that they did get a fair shot, but it didn't because they screwed up 5 years of development. I think he knows the game was a complete failure, he just want to cover up the collateral damage. So we're not discussing what he said now, we're discussing what you think he knows and what he thinks he wants to do. I think we left 'facts' behind in this discussion some time ago...
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Post by smilesja on Aug 18, 2018 17:00:26 GMT
I've already read the report long before you made the post about it. And if he admitted the game is a failure then why did he said that Andromeda didn't get a fair shot and blame it on an Nintendo game? The failure of a AAA game is rarely down to one factor, it's multi-layered. Andromeda was fatally flawed, and he admits that, but it did also have the misfortune of releasing in a stellar month of video game releases. Ppl have limited budgets and can only buy so much every month. There's no doubt many gamers chose Zelda or Horizon over MEA, so he's not wrong in that respect. Except it didn’t fail.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 17:43:48 GMT
The failure of a AAA game is rarely down to one factor, it's multi-layered. Andromeda was fatally flawed, and he admits that, but it did also have the misfortune of releasing in a stellar month of video game releases. Ppl have limited budgets and can only buy so much every month. There's no doubt many gamers chose Zelda or Horizon over MEA, so he's not wrong in that respect. Except it didn’t fail. It did in the media and for me personally. I've played every ME and DA game 5 times but I found it hard to even finish a second run of MEA. I won't be playing it again.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 18, 2018 17:51:28 GMT
It did in the media and for me personally. I've played every ME and DA game 5 times but I found it hard to even finish a second run of MEA. I won't be playing it again. It failed for YOU but not in sales.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 18, 2018 17:52:28 GMT
I enjoyed Horizon more than MEA, I'm not guilty about that. From what I've heard it's an incredible game. But I won't tell the other mods, they might sack you. In 2017 it was practically illegal to say anything good about ME:A
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 18:06:51 GMT
It did in the media and for me personally. I've played every ME and DA game 5 times but I found it hard to even finish a second run of MEA. I won't be playing it again. It failed for YOU but not in sales. You realise in the comment you quoted that I was talking about the failure of AAA games in general right? And when a game gets it's DLC cancelled, becomes an internet meme, and the whole studio has their jobs 'relocated', it's a failure.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 18, 2018 18:21:17 GMT
It failed for YOU but not in sales. You realise in the comment you quoted that I was talking about the failure of AAA games in general right? And when a game gets it's DLC cancelled, becomes an internet meme, and the whole studio has their jobs 'relocated', it's a failure. Did they even plan DLC? And no it’s not a failure despite the memes. People get relocated all the time in delevopment it isn’t new.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 8:36:34 GMT
You realise in the comment you quoted that I was talking about the failure of AAA games in general right? And when a game gets it's DLC cancelled, becomes an internet meme, and the whole studio has their jobs 'relocated', it's a failure. Did they even plan DLC? And no it’s not a failure despite the memes. People get relocated all the time in delevopment it isn’t new. I assumed the message from the quarian ark at the end of the game was the taster for DLC, and I'm sure someone said they axed it and just wrote a book instead. Saying something you personally liked was a failure isn't an attack on you. It's simply an assessment based on the treatment the game has gotten from EA, with slashed prices early on that DAI never had, a cancelled DLC and the studio being closed.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 19, 2018 22:12:36 GMT
Did they even plan DLC? And no it’s not a failure despite the memes. People get relocated all the time in delevopment it isn’t new. I assumed the message from the quarian ark at the end of the game was the taster for DLC, and I'm sure someone said they axed it and just wrote a book instead. Saying something you personally liked was a failure isn't an attack on you. It's simply an assessment based on the treatment the game has gotten from EA, with slashed prices early on that DAI never had, a cancelled DLC and the studio being closed. DLC has to be planned well in advance, in order to be released in a timely manner. Sales of DLC drop sharply the further away you get from the initial release of the game. I'm certain the Quarian Ark was intended to be DLC, but I also think that they decided to scrap it well before ME:A was released. They knew, long before they actually told us, that there wouldn't be any further content for ME:A, besides releasing new characters for multiplayer, which is relatively trivial compared to the extensive story content people were hoping for.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Aug 19, 2018 22:55:50 GMT
I find his answer understandable coming from someone from the inside, but at some point you have to recognize that fan input doesn't sprout from thin air. The early games were met with near universal acclaim and the last two simply were not. This isn't the fault of the market.
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