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Post by cmdrshep2183 on Jul 23, 2018 11:01:21 GMT
At 3:29 Shepard says he is just a soldier.
Isn't Shepard a Marine? A space Marine? How would people in today's USMC react to a Marine calling himself a soldier? Perhaps the Alliance military views its Marines as just an MOS not an entire military branch with its own intense culture of its own.
What do you think of this? The Alliance military is clearly a Western styled military force rather than the US Army or US Marines in space.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 10, 2018 9:02:02 GMT
It's alright I guess. But they should've done some research on Special Operations.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 10, 2018 15:18:01 GMT
At 3:29 Shepard says he is just a soldier.
Isn't Shepard a Marine? A space Marine? How would people in today's USMC react to a Marine calling himself a soldier? Perhaps the Alliance military views its Marines as just an MOS not an entire military branch with its own intense culture of its own.
What do you think of this? The Alliance military is clearly a Western styled military force rather than the US Army or US Marines in space.
Given that there's no Alliance Army, I can't see how anyone should care about it. It seems like all military branches were absorbed into the Navy and Marines (and those two are barely different). |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 10, 2018 15:23:07 GMT
The Alliance are a bunch of Council brown nosers.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 4:04:48 GMT
I think the whole thing about Shepard being famous is unrealistic, because he's Special Forces and his missions, and his/her identity should've been classified to the public. And the whole Council dubbing Shepard a Spectre in public is very dumb, because Spectres should've kept secret from the public masses, because you never know an enemy will hunt down operatives, gathering intel to destabilize governments, and start wars to take over the Citadel government.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2018 4:48:18 GMT
I think the whole thing about Shepard being famous is unrealistic, because he's Special Forces and his missions and his/her identity should've been classified to the public. And the whole Council dubbing Shepard a Spectre in public is very dumb, because Spectres should've kept secret from the public masses, because you never know an enemy will hunt down operatives, gathering intel to destabilize governments, and start wars to take over the Citadel government. Agreed. In my Twin Shepards MET run (made great use of gender swap in ME1 so I could take screenshots) I had one of the Shepards publicly made a Spectre while the other was done secretly so he could investigate Cerberus, which was a mission ongoing even into ME2. So, yes, I agree that Spectres would be more effective if they were played as secret agents rather than super-heroes (or villains, if we go by Saren's behavior). |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 21, 2018 0:07:01 GMT
I think the whole thing about Shepard being famous is unrealistic, because he's Special Forces and his missions, and his/her identity should've been classified to the public. And the whole Council dubbing Shepard a Spectre in public is very dumb, because Spectres should've kept secret from the public masses, because you never know an enemy will hunt down operatives, gathering intel to destabilize governments, and start wars to take over the Citadel government.
Yes and no.
Operatives being publicly known means they can exert influence in ways standard police forces can't. Just knowing a Specter is near by and that they are authorized to do practically what ever they want is a powerful tool to keep galaxy in line given how far ranging and spread out races are. This is shown particularly well in ME 2 with Thane's loyalty mission. Their actions particularly in times of instability adds a degree of strength behind the Council and those associated with them.
More relevant to Shepard is the celebrate aspect. Shepard is the first human specter. The thing is at the start he really isn't utilized as any real special ops role beyond hunting down a known traitor. And even then the Council doesn't let him go very far from his leash. He only learns about the Reapers and stops them by sheer random chance and given his ability to operate how he wants the first game follows that until the Council wants him to heel. Then of course post Reaper attack to prevent the Council from looking helpless Shepard the hero of the Citadel the Specter that stopped the invasion would be great PR and would help reduce the Council looking like morons. ME 2 the basic deal is they will look the other way as long as they stay out of any region of space associated with the Council or any species allied with them. And ME3 they only look to Shepard because they are the only one who knows anything about the Reapers.
The way the game treats Shepard I don't think the Council had any plans to treat hims as anything more then a glorified police officer. Kept in the public eye but not actually doing very much.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 21, 2018 3:21:34 GMT
Operatives being publicly known means they can exert influence in ways standard police forces can't. Just knowing a Specter is near by and that they are authorized to do practically what ever they want is a powerful tool to keep galaxy in line given how far ranging and spread out races are. This is shown particularly well in ME 2 with Thane's loyalty mission. Their actions particularly in times of instability adds a degree of strength behind the Council and those associated with them. I sort of agree. For Shepard there was the celebratory aspect due him being first. Saren was obviously also well-known. However, I would minimize the number of public Spectres. If you take the Paragon route in ME2 where the volus and C-Sec guys are harassing a quarian, you get to pull out the "you think you're going to arrest a Spectre" line. There could be a lot more covert activity. They could still do whatever they want but then have all charges null and void. Just my take. |
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 22, 2018 13:13:38 GMT
I think the whole thing about Shepard being famous is unrealistic, because he's Special Forces and his missions, and his/her identity should've been classified to the public. And the whole Council dubbing Shepard a Spectre in public is very dumb, because Spectres should've kept secret from the public masses, because you never know an enemy will hunt down operatives, gathering intel to destabilize governments, and start wars to take over the Citadel government.
Yes and no.
Operatives being publicly known means they can exert influence in ways standard police forces can't. Just knowing a Specter is near by and that they are authorized to do practically what ever they want is a powerful tool to keep galaxy in line given how far ranging and spread out races are. This is shown particularly well in ME 2 with Thane's loyalty mission. Their actions particularly in times of instability adds a degree of strength behind the Council and those associated with them.
More relevant to Shepard is the celebrate aspect. Shepard is the first human specter. The thing is at the start he really isn't utilized as any real special ops role beyond hunting down a known traitor. And even then the Council doesn't let him go very far from his leash. He only learns about the Reapers and stops them by sheer random chance and given his ability to operate how he wants the first game follows that until the Council wants him to heel. Then of course post Reaper attack to prevent the Council from looking helpless Shepard the hero of the Citadel the Specter that stopped the invasion would be great PR and would help reduce the Council looking like morons. ME 2 the basic deal is they will look the other way as long as they stay out of any region of space associated with the Council or any species allied with them. And ME3 they only look to Shepard because they are the only one who knows anything about the Reapers.
The way the game treats Shepard I don't think the Council had any plans to treat hims as anything more then a glorified police officer. Kept in the public eye but not actually doing very much.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 22, 2018 17:01:26 GMT
Yes and no.
Operatives being publicly known means they can exert influence in ways standard police forces can't. Just knowing a Specter is near by and that they are authorized to do practically what ever they want is a powerful tool to keep galaxy in line given how far ranging and spread out races are. This is shown particularly well in ME 2 with Thane's loyalty mission. Their actions particularly in times of instability adds a degree of strength behind the Council and those associated with them.
More relevant to Shepard is the celebrate aspect. Shepard is the first human specter. The thing is at the start he really isn't utilized as any real special ops role beyond hunting down a known traitor. And even then the Council doesn't let him go very far from his leash. He only learns about the Reapers and stops them by sheer random chance and given his ability to operate how he wants the first game follows that until the Council wants him to heel. Then of course post Reaper attack to prevent the Council from looking helpless Shepard the hero of the Citadel the Specter that stopped the invasion would be great PR and would help reduce the Council looking like morons. ME 2 the basic deal is they will look the other way as long as they stay out of any region of space associated with the Council or any species allied with them. And ME3 they only look to Shepard because they are the only one who knows anything about the Reapers.
The way the game treats Shepard I don't think the Council had any plans to treat hims as anything more then a glorified police officer. Kept in the public eye but not actually doing very much.
And? |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 22, 2018 17:09:50 GMT
Operatives being publicly known means they can exert influence in ways standard police forces can't. Just knowing a Specter is near by and that they are authorized to do practically what ever they want is a powerful tool to keep galaxy in line given how far ranging and spread out races are. This is shown particularly well in ME 2 with Thane's loyalty mission. Their actions particularly in times of instability adds a degree of strength behind the Council and those associated with them. I sort of agree. For Shepard there was the celebratory aspect due him being first. Saren was obviously also well-known. However, I would minimize the number of public Spectres. If you take the Paragon route in ME2 where the volus and C-Sec guys are harassing a quarian, you get to pull out the "you think you're going to arrest a Spectre" line. There could be a lot more covert activity. They could still do whatever they want but then have all charges null and void. Just my take.
There probably are given the exact number of Specters is unknown. And to have an entire para military force that acts in favor of the Council in matters the Council can not directly become involved in while having it be public knowledge and special treatment by all Council and allied races is a contradiction.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 24, 2018 21:01:44 GMT
I'm sure you've heard a saying "loose lips sink ships", right? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 23:45:40 GMT
At 3:29 Shepard says he is just a soldier.
Isn't Shepard a Marine? A space Marine? How would people in today's USMC react to a Marine calling himself a soldier? Perhaps the Alliance military views its Marines as just an MOS not an entire military branch with its own intense culture of its own.
What do you think of this? The Alliance military is clearly a Western styled military force rather than the US Army or US Marines in space.
Why do you say the Alliance is "clearly" a Western-styled military force? To me, it's most likely a jumble-mix of ideas pulled from several different military forces. As a Canadian company, why would Bioware necessarily mirror the US Army and US Marines? Wouldn't they be more likely to mirror the Canadian Forces?(which, as I understand it, are combined forces). |
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Post by Upggrade on Aug 25, 2018 1:16:53 GMT
At 3:29 Shepard says he is just a soldier.
Isn't Shepard a Marine? A space Marine? How would people in today's USMC react to a Marine calling himself a soldier? Perhaps the Alliance military views its Marines as just an MOS not an entire military branch with its own intense culture of its own.
What do you think of this? The Alliance military is clearly a Western styled military force rather than the US Army or US Marines in space.
Why do you say the Alliance is "clearly" a Western-styled military force? To me, it's most likely a jumble-mix of ideas pulled from several different military forces. As a Canadian company, why would Bioware necessarily mirror the US Army and US Marines? Wouldn't they be more likely to mirror the Canadian Forces?(which, as I understand it, are combined forces). Because they wanted the Alliance to mirror a competent military? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 6:10:32 GMT
Why do you say the Alliance is "clearly" a Western-styled military force? To me, it's most likely a jumble-mix of ideas pulled from several different military forces. As a Canadian company, why would Bioware necessarily mirror the US Army and US Marines? Wouldn't they be more likely to mirror the Canadian Forces?(which, as I understand it, are combined forces). Because they wanted the Alliance to mirror a competent military? ... am I supposed to feel insulted? Still, the OP's post clearly shows that they don't actually mirror the US Marines and US Army. The Alliance is a fictional military. The rules within it are whatever Bioware says they are. Obviously, in that military it is completely acceptable to refer to a marine as a soldier. People who have a problem with that are imposing their own assumption about what military the Alliance is based upon and making their own problem... failing to separate the fiction from the reality. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 25, 2018 10:54:57 GMT
I'm sure you've heard a saying "loose lips sink ships", right? Yes the particular idiom was popularized during WW2 as a short hand for soldiers sitting in a cafe or more realistically taverns not to talk about troop deployments as casual conversation. Which is a bit different then capture and torture the information out of them. But it is never really shown any Specter to have any real national security details. And all the Specter access are bio metrics meaning even if a Specter told someone were to access information without their bio metrics they still couldn't.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 25, 2018 11:20:55 GMT
I find the idea of conventional military in 200 years being unfeasible. Not when you can basically mitigate the need for militarized manpower especially in future full of automation. And I find its strange for the trilogy to romanticized military democracy and junta.
Which in part why I like MEA, it doesn't need to revolve around half-baked lore.
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Post by vonuber on Aug 25, 2018 12:21:53 GMT
Gotta love how everything has to be seen through the lens of the US, else it's wrong.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 25, 2018 12:34:50 GMT
Gotta love how everything has to be seen through the lens of the US, else it's wrong. To be fair the USA tends to have a heliocentric model of the planet with the USA at the center of it all. And even within the USA there is a heliocentric model with the military at the center of everything. |
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Post by burningcherry on Aug 25, 2018 14:18:08 GMT
I think it's weird that they don't hire female pilots but we're always hearing "a downed pilot jettisoned HIS cargo before crashing..."
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Post by Upggrade on Aug 25, 2018 15:29:54 GMT
Because they wanted the Alliance to mirror a competent military? ... am I supposed to feel insulted? Still, the OP's post clearly shows that they don't actually mirror the US Marines and US Army. The Alliance is a fictional military. The rules within it are whatever Bioware says they are. Obviously, in that military it is completely acceptable to refer to a marine as a soldier. People who have a problem with that are imposing their own assumption about what military the Alliance is based upon and making their own problem... failing to separate the fiction from the reality. No, you were supposed to chuckle. Anyway, Bioware just mushed together whatever military jargon sounded good, I doubt they thought very deeply about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 12:02:03 GMT
... am I supposed to feel insulted? Still, the OP's post clearly shows that they don't actually mirror the US Marines and US Army. The Alliance is a fictional military. The rules within it are whatever Bioware says they are. Obviously, in that military it is completely acceptable to refer to a marine as a soldier. People who have a problem with that are imposing their own assumption about what military the Alliance is based upon and making their own problem... failing to separate the fiction from the reality. No, you were supposed to chuckle. Anyway, Bioware just mushed together whatever military jargon sounded good, I doubt they thought very deeply about it. Sorry, I just don't find effectively calling a nation's military incompetent worth a chuckle. Anyway, we agree that they just jumbled together principles from various militaries. Whether they gave it "much thought" or not is unknown... only they know how much thought or effort they put into it. The complaints about it though have been, iMO, excessive and nitpicky... a fictional military can do or say or call its members whatever it likes. |
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Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2018 12:23:46 GMT
The Alliance is Bioware's military. They can make it however they want regardless if it makes sense or not.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 26, 2018 12:25:12 GMT
I'm sure you've heard a saying "loose lips sink ships", right? Yes the particular idiom was popularized during WW2 as a short hand for soldiers sitting in a cafe or more realistically taverns not to talk about troop deployments as casual conversation. That's what the Council was doing by publicized their classified missions, and their operatives in front of the public. And the idiotic Alliance idolizes Shepard as "humanity's hero", which will put him/her and others in danger from their enemies. That kind of carelessness and stupidity it will jeopardize governments if their missions, and the identities of their operatives went public. That's like saying the US government went to the public, by idolizing their Delta Operators by showing their identities in public news about a classified mission to assassinate a ruthless dictator in Siberia. Which is extremely stupid. And that's what I cannot stand that the writers did not do their research on Special/Covert Operations. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 26, 2018 18:46:17 GMT
Yes the particular idiom was popularized during WW2 as a short hand for soldiers sitting in a cafe or more realistically taverns not to talk about troop deployments as casual conversation. That's what the Council was doing by publicized their classified missions, and their operatives in front of the public. And the idiotic Alliance idolizes Shepard as "humanity's hero", which will put him/her and others in danger from their enemies. That kind of carelessness and stupidity it will jeopardize governments if their missions, and the identities of their operatives went public. That's like saying the US government went to the public, by idolizing their Delta Operators by showing their identities in public news about a classified mission to assassinate a ruthless dictator in Siberia. Which is extremely stupid. And that's what I cannot stand that the writers did not do their research on Special/Covert Operations. What enemies are we talking about? Space Pirates? Batarians? |
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