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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 21:08:55 GMT
Here's my idea for DA4 (cause BioWare are totally listening ) A protagonist with a past, like Shepard, who is recruited by the Inquisition and whose history is recognised by characters throughout the game. The Inquisition, Inquisitor, Divine and Solas would then all still have a role. This protagonist would be from Tevinter or Par Vollen so would know the ins and outs of the conflict, which would make a big change from the 'nobody who saves the world' trope. The player would chose their preference, Tevinter or Par Vollen, as for some reason they don't have one. Then I'd make it so that one side is clearly going to win. Having the player choose who wins the war will just make it less important in DA5, so let's have a clear winner from the get go. The player can then decide to support them or work as a double agent helping the other side. They'll still lose, to preserve the lore going forward, but they're loss won't be as harsh because you aided them. They end up hated losers with nothing left, or sympathic heroes who fought till the last. The winners are outright winners, or they win in a messy way and are disliked for it.
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Post by NotN7 on Jul 27, 2018 23:00:28 GMT
Myself I believe the old inquisitor will not make an appearance if the rumors are true about tevinter/qunari war till next installment the others on the other hand could happen if the inquisitor did appear I believe it would be at the end to set up the next game
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 27, 2018 23:04:05 GMT
Myself I believe the old inquisitor will not make an appearance if the rumors are true about tevinter/qunari war till next installment the others on the other hand could happen if the inquisitor did appear I believe it would be at the end to set up the next game Do you mean you think the Solas thing won't happen until DA5 while DA4 is only about the Qun-Tevinter War? Just asking since years ago on Twitter Patrick Weekes said the next game(thus DA4) would finish the Solas story.
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Post by NotN7 on Jul 27, 2018 23:13:14 GMT
sorry I don't follow twitter, but to me it seems logical that the next game would setup (since Solas did start the the war) that he would use that as buying time for what he is planning to do. that's just me
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 27, 2018 23:19:09 GMT
sorry I don't follow twitter, but to me it seems logical that the next game would setup (since Solas did start the the war) that he would use that as buying time for what he is planning to do. that's just me It's fine. The consensus around here seems to be that Da4 will deal with both plots, the Qun-Tevinter War taking the foreground while Solas uses it as a distraction so he can operate behind the scenes. Sort of similar to how in DAI the Mage-Templar and Orlesian Civil Wars took front stage while we dealt with them to get to Corypheus.
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Post by NotN7 on Jul 27, 2018 23:22:18 GMT
That's true didn't think of it that way (sigh, hard to remember it all)
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Post by colfoley on Jul 27, 2018 23:32:46 GMT
To make Solas and the new protagonist work I think BioWare can go in a few different ways:
1. You start off the game recruited by/ already part of Solas's team. You have something, no matter the race, that Solas needs so you spend the first little bit of the game working for him and with him. Until you get wise to his ultimate plan, either he exposes himself Ultron style/ The Inquisition informs you or anothercharacter familiar with Solas does the same.
2. You start off as an agent of the Inquisition that way you already have all the information and motivation you need to stop Solas.
3. You get rescued from prison by Solas which makes you incredibly grateful to him and work with him...until he exposes yourself.
4. You start off entirely unrelated to Solas and the Inquisition. You have your own agenda and your own character motivations. Maybe in the first act you run into both the Inquisition and Solas who both help you out but they are just sort of our there. Then finally, an inciting event at the end of Act 1 (like Solas doing something or a Qunari invasion) brings you to the attention of the Inquisition and they decide to make you the center piece in stopping Solas.
On the other hand I hope that with all this hubub about Qarinus/ Ventus that we start the game in that city. I mean it just seems obvious that Minarathous will feature in the game so this stuff about Ventus makes me think it will be a second major city...what better then to have it be the home of DA4s protag?
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Post by Element Zero on Jul 28, 2018 5:13:22 GMT
As a protagonist or one half of a dual-protagonist? Hard pass. See them again? Sure. In fact, I think it might be a little weird if we don't see them again. Unless DA4 completely sidesteps the Solas story and focuses on internal Tevinter stuff or Tevinter v the Qun. This. I kind of wish we’d gotten to finish Solas’ story playing as our Inquisitor. DAI’s conclusion made it pretty obvious, though, that the Inquisitor’s time as our protagonist was concluded. The player, at least, will still have strong feelings regarding Solas. That’s something, at least. Player feelings and investment are the real point, anyway. An Inquisitor cameo/some limited role in the resolution of Solas’ story would be very fitting; but I’ll go in with no such expectations. I was happy with Hawke’s portrayal in DAI, but it sounds like only my specific Hawke carried over convincingly. Maybe some player control of the Inquisitor’s dialogue would be appropriate in any DA4 appearances? The good news is that we’ll get to know a new PC, some new companions and some juicy new lore. I’m sure there will also be holdovers in desperate need of NPC-retirement. (Yes, I’m looking at you, Leliana.)
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 28, 2018 5:31:11 GMT
As a protagonist or one half of a dual-protagonist? Hard pass. See them again? Sure. In fact, I think it might be a little weird if we don't see them again. Unless DA4 completely sidesteps the Solas story and focuses on internal Tevinter stuff or Tevinter v the Qun. This. I kind of wish we’d gotten to finish Solas’ story playing as our Inquisitor. DAI’s conclusion made it pretty obvious, though, that the Inquisitor’s time as our protagonist was concluded. The player, at least, will still have strong feelings regarding Solas. That’s something, at least. Player feelings and investment are the real point, anyway. An Inquisitor cameo/some limited role in the resolution of Solas’ story would be very fitting; but I’ll go in with no such expectations. I was happy with Hawke’s portrayal in DAI, but it sounds like only my specific Hawke carried over convincingly. Maybe some player control of the Inquisitor’s dialogue would be appropriate in any DA4 appearances? The good news is that we’ll get to know a new PC, some new companions and some juicy new lore. I’m sure there will also be holdovers in desperate need of NPC-retirement. (Yes, I’m looking at you, Leliana.) I am the type of person that doesn't mind a character to be returning, but having them return forever is a problem for progression. I remember with Mass Effect 3 BioWare originally said there was only going to be a few that returned, but after all kinds of "please tell me x is returning for they are my favourite" they had them all return and those characters all became a mess for they couldn't have any character but Liara have a major role because so many could be dead and they had to account for two characters for every role that a returning character could fill. I think Leliana falls into that category as well and most of the characters from Dragon Age: Origins for they had multiple paths.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2018 6:08:17 GMT
As a protagonist or one half of a dual-protagonist? Hard pass. See them again? Sure. In fact, I think it might be a little weird if we don't see them again. Unless DA4 completely sidesteps the Solas story and focuses on internal Tevinter stuff or Tevinter v the Qun. This. I kind of wish we’d gotten to finish Solas’ story playing as our Inquisitor. DAI’s conclusion made it pretty obvious, though, that the Inquisitor’s time as our protagonist was concluded. The player, at least, will still have strong feelings regarding Solas. That’s something, at least. Player feelings and investment are the real point, anyway. An Inquisitor cameo/some limited role in the resolution of Solas’ story would be very fitting; but I’ll go in with no such expectations. I was happy with Hawke’s portrayal in DAI, but it sounds like only my specific Hawke carried over convincingly. Maybe some player control of the Inquisitor’s dialogue would be appropriate in any DA4 appearances? The good news is that we’ll get to know a new PC, some new companions and some juicy new lore. I’m sure there will also be holdovers in desperate need of NPC-retirement. (Yes, I’m looking at you, Leliana.) Oh, it's something alright. That something is called terrible writing. Do that in DA5 after they finish this story that was completed but then undone by what could be the worst DLC in their history.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2018 6:12:08 GMT
Here's my idea for DA4 (cause BioWare are totally listening ) A protagonist with a past, like Shepard, who is recruited by the Inquisition and whose history is recognised by characters throughout the game. The Inquisition, Inquisitor, Divine and Solas would then all still have a role. This protagonist would be from Tevinter or Par Vollen so would know the ins and outs of the conflict, which would make a big change from the 'nobody who saves the world' trope. The player would chose their preference, Tevinter or Par Vollen, as for some reason they don't have one. Then I'd make it so that one side is clearly going to win. Having the player choose who wins the war will just make it less important in DA5, so let's have a clear winner from the get go. The player can then decide to support them or work as a double agent helping the other side. They'll still lose, to preserve the lore going forward, but they're loss won't be as harsh because you aided them. They end up hated losers with nothing left, or sympathic heroes who fought till the last. The winners are outright winners, or they win in a messy way and are disliked for it. To make Solas and the new protagonist work I think BioWare can go in a few different ways: 1. You start off the game recruited by/ already part of Solas's team. You have something, no matter the race, that Solas needs so you spend the first little bit of the game working for him and with him. Until you get wise to his ultimate plan, either he exposes himself Ultron style/ The Inquisition informs you or anothercharacter familiar with Solas does the same. 2. You start off as an agent of the Inquisition that way you already have all the information and motivation you need to stop Solas. 3. You get rescued from prison by Solas which makes you incredibly grateful to him and work with him...until he exposes yourself. 4. You start off entirely unrelated to Solas and the Inquisition. You have your own agenda and your own character motivations. Maybe in the first act you run into both the Inquisition and Solas who both help you out but they are just sort of our there. Then finally, an inciting event at the end of Act 1 (like Solas doing something or a Qunari invasion) brings you to the attention of the Inquisition and they decide to make you the center piece in stopping Solas. On the other hand I hope that with all this hubub about Qarinus/ Ventus that we start the game in that city. I mean it just seems obvious that Minarathous will feature in the game so this stuff about Ventus makes me think it will be a second major city...what better then to have it be the home of DA4s protag?
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Post by colfoley on Jul 28, 2018 7:16:48 GMT
Here's my idea for DA4 (cause BioWare are totally listening ) A protagonist with a past, like Shepard, who is recruited by the Inquisition and whose history is recognised by characters throughout the game. The Inquisition, Inquisitor, Divine and Solas would then all still have a role. This protagonist would be from Tevinter or Par Vollen so would know the ins and outs of the conflict, which would make a big change from the 'nobody who saves the world' trope. The player would chose their preference, Tevinter or Par Vollen, as for some reason they don't have one. Then I'd make it so that one side is clearly going to win. Having the player choose who wins the war will just make it less important in DA5, so let's have a clear winner from the get go. The player can then decide to support them or work as a double agent helping the other side. They'll still lose, to preserve the lore going forward, but they're loss won't be as harsh because you aided them. They end up hated losers with nothing left, or sympathic heroes who fought till the last. The winners are outright winners, or they win in a messy way and are disliked for it. To make Solas and the new protagonist work I think BioWare can go in a few different ways: 1. You start off the game recruited by/ already part of Solas's team. You have something, no matter the race, that Solas needs so you spend the first little bit of the game working for him and with him. Until you get wise to his ultimate plan, either he exposes himself Ultron style/ The Inquisition informs you or anothercharacter familiar with Solas does the same. 2. You start off as an agent of the Inquisition that way you already have all the information and motivation you need to stop Solas. 3. You get rescued from prison by Solas which makes you incredibly grateful to him and work with him...until he exposes yourself. 4. You start off entirely unrelated to Solas and the Inquisition. You have your own agenda and your own character motivations. Maybe in the first act you run into both the Inquisition and Solas who both help you out but they are just sort of our there. Then finally, an inciting event at the end of Act 1 (like Solas doing something or a Qunari invasion) brings you to the attention of the Inquisition and they decide to make you the center piece in stopping Solas. On the other hand I hope that with all this hubub about Qarinus/ Ventus that we start the game in that city. I mean it just seems obvious that Minarathous will feature in the game so this stuff about Ventus makes me think it will be a second major city...what better then to have it be the home of DA4s protag? Care to add some nuance to your gif? To be clear the Inquisitor can still appear in pretty much any of my scenarios, even as a dual protagonist. Merely pointing out for those concerned that they cannot create a connection between Solas and a new protagonist (like you) that they can do so.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 28, 2018 7:36:23 GMT
Care to add some nuance to your gif? To be clear the Inquisitor can still appear in pretty much any of my scenarios, even as a dual protagonist. Merely pointing out for those concerned that they cannot create a connection between Solas and a new protagonist (like you) that they can do so. For your post, mostly the first and third options where we have to spend the first part of the game working with him. Both because I don't want to help him with his world-wide genocide plan, but also because you have to play a character oblivious to that while you as the player aren't until the reveal. Also, and this goes with any idea of making a connection between Solas and a new PC, there are two big problems. First is more a meta one and that is they will be telling the exact same story with him that they did in DAI. Second is the moment they do that the new PC runs into the same issue of "Solas knowing them too well". With these two issues, the whole point of a new PC is destroyed so why not just use the Inquisitor then? At least that way they can expand on what was set up rather than having to retread old ground.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Jul 28, 2018 10:26:57 GMT
The good news is that we’ll get to know a new PC, some new companions and some juicy new lore. I’m sure there will also be holdovers in desperate need of NPC-retirement. (Yes, I’m looking at you, Leliana.) I don´t think we will see Leliana in DA 4. Bioware have already established Charter as her replacement.
I honestly believe that Bioware also know that they have use Leliana too much in DA. Also at the End of Trespasser i have the Feeling Leliana is done.
If you killed her in Origins she disappeared as Lyrium Ghost. If romanced and not elected as new Divine she returned to the Warden. If elected as new Divine and also romanced she stayed in the Grand Cathedral. If not elected / romanced / killed she also resigned as Inquisition Spymaster.
And in all of Lelianas Fates Charter is the new Inquisition Spymaster.
I know Bioware could recton Leliana again but why should they do this?
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Post by simit on Jul 28, 2018 10:33:36 GMT
The opening of the game can easily be the Tevinter an Qunari waging a war against each other an the inquisition failing to stop solas an the veil being ripped down but per usual Solas ias wrong about the consequences, its bad but not a everybody dead bad an it a fairly easy route to a new pc then with the inquisition/inquisitor in the background.
Just a example but no doubt there plenty more where there is no need for the inquisitor as a pc tbh, am personally on the fence but more i think of it more i want a new pc an solas not to be the Antagonist but i do want the inquisitor to deal with solas, preferably early an setting up, in my view, a potentially more exciting antagonist/s, i mean does red lyrium no point to a corrupted titan? would solas succeeding no bring back the elven pantheon? for me theres more potential with solas succeeding with his plan than failing
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Post by themikefest on Jul 28, 2018 11:41:38 GMT
I was happy with Hawke’s portrayal in DAI, but it sounds like only my specific Hawke carried over convincingly. My favorite part was having my Hawke look exactly like my Inquisitor. Having Jo Wyatt and AWR voicing the characters, both sound very similar, they could have passed off as twins. Anyways. If Hawke survives the fade, she/he heads off to Weisshaupt. That doesn't make sense. Get a Warden to do that. Have Hawke return to Skyhold where he/she can be seen in the courtyard, and have a few lines of dialogue until the fight with Corypheus. When fighting Corypheus, Hawke is seen in the background providing support, like at Adamant. That way it can be said that Hawke was there to finish the job. If the Inquisitor isn't the main character, the above could happen, minus the fade part, with the Inquisitor showing up at the end to see Solas defeated.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 28, 2018 13:57:49 GMT
Just a thought, dual pc which included the inquisitor would mean 3 VA per gender Not necessarily, as one dual protagonist option would be simply having the existing voice actors switch. So for the new protagonist, Alix Wilton Regan and Harry Hadden-Paton do the North American accents, while Sumalee Montano and Jon Curry do the British ones.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 28, 2018 14:15:28 GMT
You have that backwards. Harry and AWR would voice the British accents while Montano and Curry voice the American accents
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Post by simit on Jul 28, 2018 14:35:35 GMT
Just a thought, dual pc which included the inquisitor would mean 3 VA per gender Not necessarily, as one dual protagonist option would be simply having the existing voice actors switch. So for the new protagonist, Alix Wilton Regan and Harry Hadden-Paton do the North American accents, while Sumalee Montano and Jon Curry do the British ones. It is a possibility tbh, it never even crossed my mind that
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Post by theascendent on Jul 28, 2018 14:38:28 GMT
The Mass Effect series was ultimately the story of Commander Shepard, the Dragon Age series is the story about Thedas. It makes sense both storytelling and gameplay wise to bring in new characters, why else have they been bringing up new characters in the comics, which are a hit and miss collection of characters with interesting potential and offering a unique insight into our new setting, arguably one of the darkest settings in the series. Hopefully the new game will see a return to the grim dark premise that was established in Origins, and rapidly altered do that by the time of Inquisition one could hardly believe that we are still in the same setting.
As for the PC, themselves, ideally we need a reason to care about them and reinforce the importance of ones origins. When I played my Male Elf Mage in Origins I genuinely felt demeaned and belittled and could respond with vitriol and contempt towards humans. Inquisition, my Dalish Mage was embarrassingly ignorant of basic Elven lore. In Origins I was very concerned over the date of the Circle Tower, my home and all of the mages who were my friends and family. Inquisition, my entire clan could have been wiped out off screen of I made even one wrong decision in a vague scenario.
Rant aside, hopefully they have learned from their mistakes in all of the games and have found a way to improve.
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Post by melbella on Jul 28, 2018 16:16:41 GMT
For your post, mostly the first and third options where we have to spend the first part of the game working with him. Both because I don't want to help him with his world-wide genocide plan, but also because you have to play a character oblivious to that while you as the player aren't until the reveal.
This right here. We already played a character duped into helping Solas. We already played a character who knew less than we the player did. I liked Trespasser, but I hated that aspect of it - we the players knew all along by that point who Solas was, but the Inquisitor only learns it at the very end of the DLC. It's bad enough being spoiled on a replay but I don't want to be more informed than my character on a first run. Playing a new PC who has no clue about Solas would be just about the worst way to go, imo.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 28, 2018 18:39:51 GMT
For your post, mostly the first and third options where we have to spend the first part of the game working with him. Both because I don't want to help him with his world-wide genocide plan, but also because you have to play a character oblivious to that while you as the player aren't until the reveal.
This right here. We already played a character duped into helping Solas. We already played a character who knew less than we the player did. I liked Trespasser, but I hated that aspect of it - we the players knew all along by that point who Solas was, but the Inquisitor only learns it at the very end of the DLC. It's bad enough being spoiled on a replay but I don't want to be more informed than my character on a first run. Playing a new PC who has no clue about Solas would be just about the worst way to go, imo.
I disagree. The roleplaying opportunities are really rich in such an environment. Do you play a character that is hostile and suspicious of him? Do you play a grateful dupe. I'm not saying you'll be helping him long and yes, I guess it's a retread of Inquisition. But the alternative is far worse. To retread one of Inquisition's worse aspects and have Solas waste his potential as a villain and turn him into a 2D caricature that screams and stomps his foot and gets little meaningful screen time. Remember quite probably DAs best villain was one we helped for a significant amount of the game's story even though we knew they were a monster. We could even get along with them.
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Post by phoray on Jul 29, 2018 3:16:16 GMT
Until you get wise to his ultimate plan, either he exposes himself Ultron style/ The Inquisition informs you or anothercharacter familiar with Solas does the same. The problem I see with this is so many people at end of Trespasser wanted to join Solas, but it sounds like in this scenario, a defection is required. So you only get to help him, "in ignorance" ? for a bit before yet again being forced to oppose him. but also because you have to play a character oblivious to that while you as the player aren't until the reveal. This is also a problem. yet a third problem is that once again, Solas will know your in's and out's, you being his underling and all, so you no longer qualify as the person he doesn't know. - we the players knew all along by that point who Solas was ...ummm... I mean, I knew he was a powerful magic user who killed flemeth, but the first tim eI played through, I was quite ignorant about the Dalish, hadn't been that close to Merril, hadn't played a Dalish or researched one... so I was honestly surprised to learn he was the Dread Wolf....
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jul 29, 2018 3:21:04 GMT
...ummm... I mean, I knew he was a powerful magic user who killed flemeth, but the first tim eI played through, I was quite ignorant about the Dalish, hadn't been that close to Merril, hadn't played a Dalish or researched one... so I was honestly surprised to learn he was the Dread Wolf....
I was talking about during Trespasser, not the whole game. Flemeth calls him Dread Wolf in the post credit scene, so if you saw him "kill" her, you would have heard that.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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Post by phoray on Jul 29, 2018 3:32:23 GMT
I was talking about during Trespasser, not the whole game. Flemeth calls him Dread Wolf in the post credit scene, so if you saw him "kill" her, you would have heard that. Nah, I knew what you meant. I had no effing clue who the Dread Wolf was. I was like, huh, interesting nickname for the guy who killed Flemeth. I really had zip knowledge of the Dalish when I went into Trespasser. So I DID NOT KNOW who the Dread Wolf was and honestly had no suspicion for Solas even being INVOLVED in Trespasser until the Qunari Woman told me.
Excerpt of Phoray's thoughts and experiences from first time at Trespasser: "You work for the Dread Wolf, Dawg!" At this point, I think I'd even forgotten the nickname and was like..."Dude, what are you even talking about? Then she said, "You knew him as Solas but he's behind it all! but it's okay, I'll kill him shortly after I kill you." And I'm all like FIGHT FIGHT what, I don't even know what's going on, why would my best bud from base game be involved in all this? The game wants me to declare my emotions right now! But... but, Solas is my friend. So then I say, "I'm sure whatever Solas is doing, he has good reasons!" *doubt doubt* And then Cole is like, "Dude, you're blind. I'm giving you a downvote" At least, I think it was Cole... And then the epic battle with Saarbaas with my hand throwing me across the screen with explosions. And then walking through a mirror and going WHAT DA FUDGE, Solas is turning people to stone. then I'm like, "Solas, man, I have no FUDGING clue what's going on. That Qunari lady said you were evil and planning to blow people up but man, that's crazy talk. You wouldn't do that." And he's like, "Oh Sorry. I'd totally do that. I'm an ANCIENT ELF and this is all the stuff I did. And I'm called the Dread Wolf and I plan to kill everyone you know." And I'm like... "shit. I thought that Qunari lady was high on crack. Man. I'm sad, I'm confused, and I'm pretty sure this game is about to kill me and I haven't even been married to Cullen for more than two days. It's getting worse. I realy think you shouldn't kill ALL the people, man. The Solas I know in base game wouldn't do that, and I just think you've gotten a bit carried away. And I plan to prove it to you if I don't die in teh next five minutes...And this is really making me sad, yo, I don't want to die. What about my arm man?" and then Solas is like, "I fix that." And then I was just relieved to be alive after the cut to black
The end. Great music.
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