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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 17:57:56 GMT
One thing I really would like to see in a future title is for more consistent writing; especially when it comes to showcasing supposed 'alien' species and their cultures:
I feel this sums up my views on this point. That and how "off-brand" the new companions felt.
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,669 Likes: 18,574
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 27, 2020 18:23:12 GMT
For me I kind of agree I think it's more Ryder' sfeeling extremely nrevous having this job fall in their lap considering their lack of experience. Also they'er using humour to rt yto dea lwith the pressuer and how nervous they'er feeling about the situation. We have to remembe rtha tRyder is onl y22 and they'v ebeen thrown into a senior position and whils tthe ydon't want to let anyon down they're nervous as hell mainly due t othe fac tthe ydon't have a lot of experience with leading missions like this. I find Ryder to be exceptionally resilient in the face of overwhelming odds, and possibly more realistic than Shepard. In some respects, Shepard is yer run-of-the-mill, generic squad leader. Brimming with confidence (to the point of possibly being over-confident) and competence, and occasionally getting mad and yelling at/cursing out people. The only time we ever saw Shep express any doubt was toward the end of ME3. It's like they finally fully acknowledged the odds they were up against and just how slim their chances were. They are very different characters, fer shure, but both succeeded due to a deep well of resolve and tremendous courage. Well, that and a little luck and help from some friends. Yeah I think there is differnce with Shep though in that they've already prroven they can handle the kind of stuff they do already by the time we take control of them in the game as they're already an established hero within the Alliance due to what they did in the Skyllian Blitz and things like that when you choose Shep's background as that's what the War Hero/Sole Survivor/Ruhtless is all about. The most our Ryder's been involved with is providing security for Prothean scientists or guarding a ME relay depending on whether you play as Sara or Scott. It's one of the reasons why I liked Ryder really in tha tdespite the lack of experience they kind of get their headdown and somehow find a way to get the job done. I'd like to think that Alec would hav ebeen proud of them for achieving what they did despite the odds being heavily stacked against them.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2020 18:26:35 GMT
One thing I really would like to see in a future title is for more consistent writing; especially when it comes to showcasing supposed 'alien' species and their cultures: I feel this sums up my views on this point. That and how "off-brand" the new companions felt. His complaint about Ryder breathing on Aya is pretty silly, since this is something Mass Effect has always glossed over. Shepard should not have been able to breath the overly saturated atmosphere of Ilos, but here we are. Also, I like the complaint about escorting through the city. I'm pretty sure non-compliance with the escort results in instant death.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 27, 2020 18:47:53 GMT
It's one of the reasons why I liked Ryder really in tha tdespite the lack of experience they kind of get their headdown and somehow find a way to get the job done. I'd like to think that Alec would hav ebeen proud of them for achieving what they did despite the odds being heavily stacked against them. Ryder has a background. Served a few years in the Alliance, but once in Andromeda, all that went out the window. Apparently Ryder chooses not to scan the robot before bringing it back on the ship. What's funny about that is Ryder can tell the stowaway, when in her apartment, that her robot will be looked at before having it on the ship. Apparently it's ok for squadmates to do stupid crap. Then after the archon ship, Ryder fails to inform anyone that the archon knows what he/she knows. Are these the things that the Alliance taught Ryder? Are they the things taught by their father, a former N7? Had little Ryder told the Nexus that the archon saw her/his memories, they might have moved the Nexus to another location just in case something happens. And had she/he scanned the robot, all the fighting during the asari's mission could have been avoided.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 27, 2020 18:56:18 GMT
Also, I like the complaint about escorting through the city. I'm pretty sure non-compliance with the escort results in instant death. I think you miss-judged his complaint. The problem is that you get escorted around town, for everyone to see, with zero precaution measures. If we had first contact today, we'd arrest the alien(s) on touchdown, have secure, armoured escorts and take them far away from civilians, to meet our leader, under a controlled environment.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 19:02:03 GMT
One thing I really would like to see in a future title is for more consistent writing; especially when it comes to showcasing supposed 'alien' species and their cultures: I feel this sums up my views on this point. That and how "off-brand" the new companions felt. His complaint about Ryder breathing on Aya is pretty silly, since this is something Mass Effect has always glossed over. Shepard should not have been able to breath the overly saturated atmosphere of Ilos, but here we are. Also, I like the complaint about escorting through the city. I'm pretty sure non-compliance with the escort results in instant death. True, but then Mass Effect has also never tried to emphasize the importance of a first contact either. If this was supposed to truly be a First Contact scenario then you would think that the writers would have acknowledged the fact that pathogens and/or diseases could be an issue especially when the natives are walking an alien down the center of one of their major population centers filled with civilians. At least the previous games gave Shepard the option of wearing an enclosed suit & helmet when planetside. In Andromeda Ryder is walking around in jeans and a t-shirt essentially.
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 27, 2020 19:02:21 GMT
Also, I like the complaint about escorting through the city. I'm pretty sure non-compliance with the escort results in instant death. I think you miss-judged his complaint. The problem is that you get escorted around town, for everyone to see, with zero precaution measures. If we had first contact today, we'd arrest the alien(s) on touchdown, have secure, armoured escorts and take them far away from civilians, to meet our leader, under a controlled environment. Escorted to landing site... immediately met by another escort... escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location. Someone didn't play the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 27, 2020 19:05:10 GMT
His complaint about Ryder breathing on Aya is pretty silly, since this is something Mass Effect has always glossed over. Shepard should not have been able to breath the overly saturated atmosphere of Ilos, but here we are. Also, I like the complaint about escorting through the city. I'm pretty sure non-compliance with the escort results in instant death. True, but then Mass Effect has also never tried to emphasize the importance of a first contact either. If this was supposed to truly be a First Contact scenario then you would think that the writers would have acknowledged the fact that pathogens and/or diseases could be an issue especially when the natives are walking an alien down the center of one of their major population centers filled with civilians. At least the previous games gave Shepard the option of wearing an enclosed suit & helmet when planetside. In Andromeda Ryder is walking around in jeans and a t-shirt essentially. Why would pathogens and diseases be an issue? They have an entirely different makeup to us. In real life diseases wouldn’t affect alien species at all or at most cause a slight allergic reaction as the body reacts to a foreign substance.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 19:11:41 GMT
True, but then Mass Effect has also never tried to emphasize the importance of a first contact either. If this was supposed to truly be a First Contact scenario then you would think that the writers would have acknowledged the fact that pathogens and/or diseases could be an issue especially when the natives are walking an alien down the center of one of their major population centers filled with civilians. At least the previous games gave Shepard the option of wearing an enclosed suit & helmet when planetside. In Andromeda Ryder is walking around in jeans and a t-shirt essentially. Why would pathogens and diseases be an issue? They have an entirely different makeup to us. In real life diseases wouldn’t affect other species at all or at most cause a slight allergic reaction as the body reacts to a foreign substance. Apparently not if they can breath the same air we can, and eat the same food we can. That's more than enough commonality for bacteria and/or viruses.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 19:12:57 GMT
I think you miss-judged his complaint. The problem is that you get escorted around town, for everyone to see, with zero precaution measures. If we had first contact today, we'd arrest the alien(s) on touchdown, have secure, armoured escorts and take them far away from civilians, to meet our leader, under a controlled environment. Escorted to landing site... immediately met by another escort... escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location. Someone didn't play the game. In the middle of one of their major civilian population centers.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2020 19:14:05 GMT
This is only half true. The game just doesn't apply it in strict safe zones (in which case there is no actual option), which is just about the same as what Shepard gets in ME3, since there's no longer a lead-in to any potential combat encounters in a hub like there were in ME1 and to some small degree in ME2.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 27, 2020 19:16:39 GMT
You landed in the middle of the city immediately met by another escort But not arrested. We'd probably have the aliens under custody. Handcuffed and all. escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location Shortest route, maybe. Walking freely around town, unrestrained, through a crowd, to meet a leader, in plain sight. We'd probably have put the aliens in some sort of stasis, tranq, or induced coma, till we arrived in an underground military bunker, where our leader would be waiting. Of course, the Angara aren't humans, so they aren't bound to behave like humans. But their run-ins with the Kett should have at least made them cautious and any (first) interaction with aliens should have been met with extreme prejudice. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me, but I had that same complaint. Let me ask you this; what if an Angara sniped Ryder, as he/she was walking around town? Dropped dead on the spot. What then?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 27, 2020 19:16:48 GMT
Why would pathogens and diseases be an issue? They have an entirely different makeup to us. In real life diseases wouldn’t affect other species at all or at most cause a slight allergic reaction as the body reacts to a foreign substance. Apparently not if they can breath the same air we can, and eat the same food we can. That's more than enough commonality for bacteria and/or viruses. And you know that how? We’ve never met actual aliens (that we know of) so your only basis is looking at species from the same planet that have the same genetics. Meanwhile we know that life in the Heleus Cluster doesn’t since we see it. Also if I recall finding food in Andromeda that we can eat was very rare, being explored as a couple side quests as well as a banter chain between Suvi and Lexi.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2020 19:19:24 GMT
True, but then Mass Effect has also never tried to emphasize the importance of a first contact either. If this was supposed to truly be a First Contact scenario then you would think that the writers would have acknowledged the fact that pathogens and/or diseases could be an issue especially when the natives are walking an alien down the center of one of their major population centers filled with civilians. At least the previous games gave Shepard the option of wearing an enclosed suit & helmet when planetside. In Andromeda Ryder is walking around in jeans and a t-shirt essentially. Why would pathogens and diseases be an issue? They have an entirely different makeup to us. In real life diseases wouldn’t affect alien species at all or at most cause a slight allergic reaction as the body reacts to a foreign substance. I think a more important question is how important the danger of diseases is in terms of the narrative that this would need to make its way in there. Like, would there need to be more exploration into the dangers of this contact, quarantine, etc.? With the Quarians, it defines their way of life, and is a huge part of their story, but here, it might just add needless convolution that will likely not be resolved in any meaningful way.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 27, 2020 19:19:53 GMT
You landed in the middle of the city immediately met by another escort But not arrested. We'd probably have the aliens under custody. Handcuffed and all. escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location Shortest route, maybe. Walking freely around town, unrestrained, through a crowd, to meet a leader, in plain sight. We'd probably have put the aliens in some sort of stasis, tranq, or induced coma, till we arrived in an underground military bunker, where our leader would be waiting. Of course, the Angara aren't humans, so they aren't bound to behave like humans. But their run-ins with the Kett should have at least made them cautious and any (first) interaction with aliens should have been met with extreme prejudice. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me, but I had that same complaint. Let me ask you this; what if an Angara sniped Ryder, as he/she was walking around town? Dropped dead on the spot. What then? Imprisoning and injuring aliens during first contact. Yeah, that’ll make a great first impression. I’m glad you’ll never be put in a position where you’d do that.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 19:23:57 GMT
Apparently not if they can breath the same air we can, and eat the same food we can. That's more than enough commonality for bacteria and/or viruses. And you know that how? We’ve never met actual aliens (that we know of) so your only basis is looking at species from the same planet that have the same genetics. Meanwhile we know that life in the Heleus Cluster doesn’t since we see it. Also if I recall finding food in Andromeda that we can eat was very rare, being explored as a couple side quests as well as a banter chain between Suvi and Lexi. The Quarians. Aliens from a different planet who, despite having a different genetic structure to humans, still had to avoid possible bacterial infections from us.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 27, 2020 19:24:29 GMT
Let me ask you this; what if an Angara sniped Ryder, as he/she was walking around town? Dropped dead on the spot. What then? This is what would happen. I give Bioware a thumbs up for having this happen. All I did was wonder away from the Governor only to be gunned down by the guards. excellent
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 27, 2020 19:26:05 GMT
And you know that how? We’ve never met actual aliens (that we know of) so your only basis is looking at species from the same planet that have the same genetics. Meanwhile we know that life in the Heleus Cluster doesn’t since we see it. Also if I recall finding food in Andromeda that we can eat was very rare, being explored as a couple side quests as well as a banter chain between Suvi and Lexi. The Quarians. Aliens from a different planet who, despite having a different genetic structure to humans, still had to avoid possible bacterial infections from us. Because of allergic reactions combined with a devastated immune system. The Quarians won’t actually catch a cold or flu from a human.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 27, 2020 19:27:36 GMT
We wouldn't be beating them over the head. But at the very least sedated in some form. You have no idea what its intentions are, what's it doing here, nor what's it capable of. This isn't ... Winter SparkleDash from My Little Pony, or whatever, that we're dealing with here. It is an unknown, highly intelligent, advanced, extra terrestrial life form, coming down to do fuck knows what, for whatever, possibly malevolent, reason. In such a case, if the alien is benevolent, it would understand the extreme prejudice it has been met with, because of our inferiority and if it is malevolent, good call on my part, yeah?
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 27, 2020 19:30:43 GMT
We wouldn't be beating them over the head. But at the very least sedated in some form. You have no idea what its intentions are, what's it doing here, nor what's it capable of. This isn't ... Winter SparkleDash from My Little Pony, or whatever, that we're dealing with here. It is an unknown, highly intelligent, advanced, extra terrestrial life form, coming down to do fuck knows what, for whatever, possibly malevolent, reason. In such a case, if the alien is benevolent, it would understand the extreme prejudice it has been met with, because of our inferiority and if it is malevolent, good call on my part, yeah? That, and in the previous scene it was already established that Ryder and the Angara can't talk to each other, so there is no way either side could know what the other wanted, or what intentions they have.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2020 19:31:07 GMT
Shortest route, maybe. Walking freely around town, unrestrained, through a crowd, to meet a leader, in plain sight. We'd probably have put the aliens in some sort of stasis, tranq, or induced coma, till we arrived in an underground military bunker, where our leader would be waiting. Of course, the Angara aren't humans, so they aren't bound to behave like humans. But their run-ins with the Kett should have at least made them cautious and any (first) interaction with aliens should have been met with extreme prejudice. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me, but I had that same complaint. Let me ask you this; what if an Angara sniped Ryder, as he/she was walking around town? Dropped dead on the spot. What then? I think the level of detail suggested here regarding real life precautions is kind of outside of Mass Effect's purview anyway. Like, Javik is escorted under guard to the Normandy, but doesn't get restrained or anything. He's just guarded. If this was Arrival: The Game, then it would probably work better, but in an adventure tale, maybe not as much. Although, the idea of Ryder essentially being incapacitated and then waking up in front of Evfra would probably have been interesting and enough of a dramatic effect to work and let the players know that the Resistance is not dicking around.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 27, 2020 19:34:04 GMT
We wouldn't be beating them over the head. But at the very least sedated in some form. You have no idea what its intentions are, what's it doing here, nor what's it capable of. This isn't ... Winter SparkleDash from My Little Pony, or whatever, that we're dealing with here. It is an unknown, highly intelligent, advanced, extra terrestrial life form, coming down to do fuck knows what, for whatever, possibly malevolent, reason. In such a case, if the alien is benevolent, it would understand the extreme prejudice it has been met with, because of our inferiority and if it is malevolent, good call on my part, yeah? That's still injuring. And sure, we don't know what their intentions are which is why only idiots would consider antagonizing them. It could turn an alien race that saw benefits towards working with humans to seeing humanity as a bunch of barbarians who aren't a potential ally but a threat. Also if it's malevolent then you treating it that way wouldn't help anything, since it would just give the rest the perfect excuse they need to do whatever they intend to. So your method has no gains but only costs. It's why contact with other civilizations in human history for the most part tried diplomacy since they wanted to scope the other out but in a way that didn't make an enemy if it could be avoided.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 27, 2020 19:36:16 GMT
And you know that how? We’ve never met actual aliens (that we know of) so your only basis is looking at species from the same planet that have the same genetics. Meanwhile we know that life in the Heleus Cluster doesn’t since we see it. Also if I recall finding food in Andromeda that we can eat was very rare, being explored as a couple side quests as well as a banter chain between Suvi and Lexi. The Quarians. Aliens from a different planet who, despite having a different genetic structure to humans, still had to avoid possible bacterial infections from us. This goes to the subject of theme and story relevance, and how the Quarians' immunity issue plays into their story as a faction. It's the same as the genophage for the krogan, or being assholes for the asari. Their case is treated as an anomaly, but it also serves the greater narrative. It drives their other motivations, like assaulting the geth because they literally have no place else to go that can accommodate them properly.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,004 Likes: 2,731
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 27, 2020 19:36:33 GMT
Escorted to landing site... immediately met by another escort... escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location. Someone didn't play the game. In the middle of one of their major civilian population centers. A small city on an otherwise barren planet. From what we see, they may only have the one landing zone. You landed in the middle of the city immediately met by another escort But not arrested. We'd probably have the aliens under custody. Handcuffed and all. escorted via the shortest route to the leader in a secure location Shortest route, maybe. Walking freely around town, unrestrained, through a crowd, to meet a leader, in plain sight. We'd probably have put the aliens in some sort of stasis, tranq, or induced coma, till we arrived in an underground military bunker, where our leader would be waiting. Of course, the Angara aren't humans, so they aren't bound to behave like humans. But their run-ins with the Kett should have at least made them cautious and any (first) interaction with aliens should have been met with extreme prejudice. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me, but I had that same complaint. Let me ask you this; what if an Angara sniped Ryder, as he/she was walking around town? Dropped dead on the spot. What then? And then there'd be bitching about "MAH PLAYER CHOICE! WHY CAN"T I TORTURE THEM FOR THE INDIGNITY!". Andromeda just couldn't do anything right according to a few of you, despite these very issues being prevalent in the damned trilogy. Seems it really all is about Shepard and the MW for some and anything less is an abomination.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 27, 2020 19:48:28 GMT
We wouldn't be beating them over the head. But at the very least sedated in some form. And you instantly have the know-how and resources at hand to sedate alien physiology... how? Any substance you try to administer might have the desired effect. Or not. You could kill them, invigorate them, or just about anything, really.
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