Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 22:34:01 GMT
Javik clearly indicates that the Reapers hit the Citadel first during his cycle, catching the Protheans off-guard by destroying their center of government. ME1 also clearly indicates that the sentinel reaper (Sovereign) opens the Citadel Mass Relay, which allows the reapers to initiate their harvest right at the Citadel. So, I disagree... the reapers attacking the Citadel first is completely in line with ME lore. One excuse for it being different in the ME3 scenario is that Shepard prevented the Citadel attack by taking down Sovereign. However, I see no reason why, having entered the system by other means, the reapers would not have attacked the Citadel ASAP in ME3 since it still was the principle seat of government for the galaxy. Agree to a point. That point is when we learn the Citadel is only part of the Catalyst. The Catalyst has control of it. That means whatever Sovereign or the keepers did or didn't do is irrelevant. The entire Battle of the Citadel should never have happened because the Catalyst would have opened the relay and let all the Reapers in. This is a lore inconsistency and one reason why the Catalyst doesn't really work. It's possible that the Catalyst was somehow inactive but the game in no way hints that it's true. I agree that there is an inconsistency there. For ME1 to work with ME3, one basically has to assume that, somehow, the catalyst cannot be active or aware until after the Reapers break through from dark space.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,154
gervaise21
13,087
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Aug 25, 2018 8:53:28 GMT
So, I disagree... the reapers attacking the Citadel first is completely in line with ME lore. I agree it would have made more sense for them to attack and take over the Citadel as their first move. However, your previous post suggested they should have been "the absolute destruction" of the Citadel which, as I stated, was not what happened in previous cycles. If they had destroyed the Citadel then they would have destroyed their own boss. In all previous cycles the Citadel was key to its success because it controlled the relays. The only reason we were able to bounce around the galaxy initially is because the Citadel was left under our control for so long. Directing the focus of their initial attack against earth didn't make much sense as it wasn't really the centre of anything. So far as the inability of the Catalyst to act on its own, presumably it has something to do with whatever has shielded it from detection in the past. So the Reapers were programmed not to destroy the Citadel but use it for their own ends, whilst the Catalyst remained in the background simply monitoring the situation. However, if every previous cycle they had been pre-programmed that their first move was to control the Citadel, it does seem odd that they should have broken with that pattern without further input from their boss and if the Catalyst had made contact, why had no-one detected a signal going out from the Citadel?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 25, 2018 9:38:02 GMT
I never really saw a reason to care about Earth in the games. The people of Earth, absolutely, but as for the planet itself it is just a planet.
To quote Legion about the importance of homeworlds: "'Home' is recognized patterns. Known spaces. Familiar thought processes with fellow sapients. It is belonging. A planet is an amount of material massive enough to collapse into a spherical volume. Rocks, ice, and gases are not 'home'. The home of the creators is where the creators are. Their place of origin is not relevant -- only where they choose to go together."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 14:51:47 GMT
So, I disagree... the reapers attacking the Citadel first is completely in line with ME lore. I agree it would have made more sense for them to attack and take over the Citadel as their first move. However, your previous post suggested they should have been "the absolute destruction" of the Citadel which, as I stated, was not what happened in previous cycles. If they had destroyed the Citadel then they would have destroyed their own boss. In all previous cycles the Citadel was key to its success because it controlled the relays. The only reason we were able to bounce around the galaxy initially is because the Citadel was left under our control for so long. Directing the focus of their initial attack against earth didn't make much sense as it wasn't really the centre of anything. So far as the inability of the Catalyst to act on its own, presumably it has something to do with whatever has shielded it from detection in the past. So the Reapers were programmed not to destroy the Citadel but use it for their own ends, whilst the Catalyst remained in the background simply monitoring the situation. However, if every previous cycle they had been pre-programmed that their first move was to control the Citadel, it does seem odd that they should have broken with that pattern without further input from their boss and if the Catalyst had made contact, why had no-one detected a signal going out from the Citadel? However, the absolute destruction of the Citadel as a inadvertent result of a Reaper attack and an unexpected level of resistance from the Milky Way because they now know the Reaper's us operandi would force the Reapers to a Plan D. It could take the Catalyst of out picture or relocate the whole ending thing to Ilos. Keep in mind, we are talking about a rewrite... a completely different ME3. The Catalyst being on the Citadel isn't part of ME lore until ME3's ending.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 25, 2018 15:00:40 GMT
Agree to a point. That point is when we learn the Citadel is only part of the Catalyst. The Catalyst has control of it. That means whatever Sovereign or the keepers did or didn't do is irrelevant. The entire Battle of the Citadel should never have happened because the Catalyst would have opened the relay and let all the Reapers in. This is a lore inconsistency and one reason why the Catalyst doesn't really work. It's possible that the Catalyst was somehow inactive but the game in no way hints that it's true. I agree that there is an inconsistency there. For ME1 to work with ME3, one basically has to assume that, somehow, the catalyst cannot be active or aware until after the Reapers break through from dark space. Or the Catalyst is a passive entity while the Reapers it's solution are the active entity.
I've never understood the assumption that the Catalyst has to have complete and full control of the Citadel and every feature of it. Rather then the Citadel simply being an elaborate disguise/defensive shell that the Catalyst simply exists in.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 25, 2018 16:22:13 GMT
I agree it would have made more sense for them to attack and take over the Citadel as their first move. However, your previous post suggested they should have been "the absolute destruction" of the Citadel which, as I stated, was not what happened in previous cycles. If they had destroyed the Citadel then they would have destroyed their own boss. In all previous cycles the Citadel was key to its success because it controlled the relays. The only reason we were able to bounce around the galaxy initially is because the Citadel was left under our control for so long. Directing the focus of their initial attack against earth didn't make much sense as it wasn't really the centre of anything. So far as the inability of the Catalyst to act on its own, presumably it has something to do with whatever has shielded it from detection in the past. So the Reapers were programmed not to destroy the Citadel but use it for their own ends, whilst the Catalyst remained in the background simply monitoring the situation. However, if every previous cycle they had been pre-programmed that their first move was to control the Citadel, it does seem odd that they should have broken with that pattern without further input from their boss and if the Catalyst had made contact, why had no-one detected a signal going out from the Citadel? However, the absolute destruction of the Citadel as a inadvertent result of a Reaper attack and an unexpected level of resistance from the Milky Way because they now know the Reaper's us operandi would force the Reapers to a Plan D. It could take the Catalyst of out picture or relocate the whole ending thing to Ilos. Keep in mind, we are talking about a rewrite... a completely different ME3. The Catalyst being on the Citadel isn't part of ME lore until ME3's ending. According to the Catalyst, the Citadel is merely a part of it. It's not ON the Citadel it IS the Citadel - or, more accurately, it's like the Citadels is its arm but isn't all of the Catalyst. At least, if you buy into its dialogue.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Aug 25, 2018 17:02:14 GMT
However, the absolute destruction of the Citadel as a inadvertent result of a Reaper attack and an unexpected level of resistance from the Milky Way because they now know the Reaper's us operandi would force the Reapers to a Plan D. It could take the Catalyst of out picture or relocate the whole ending thing to Ilos. Keep in mind, we are talking about a rewrite... a completely different ME3. The Catalyst being on the Citadel isn't part of ME lore until ME3's ending. According to the Catalyst, the Citadel is merely a part of it. It's not ON the Citadel it IS the Citadel - or, more accurately, it's like the Citadels is its arm but isn't all of the Catalyst. At least, if you buy into its dialogue. Catalyst also calls the Citadel it's home. That it is a part of the citadel. This is actually pretty vague about how much control if any the Catalyst has over the Citadel as a whole. This is honestly the part that fascinates me the most when talking about this game. We are in a number of instances given vague generalities that can be interpreted a number of ways. And so many times people choose to interpret it in a way that starts to conflict or cause problems with the story line. They then use those self created interpretations to validate complaints and issues about aspects of the story that only exist because they chose to make them exist.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 22:28:21 GMT
However, the absolute destruction of the Citadel as a inadvertent result of a Reaper attack and an unexpected level of resistance from the Milky Way because they now know the Reaper's us operandi would force the Reapers to a Plan D. It could take the Catalyst of out picture or relocate the whole ending thing to Ilos. Keep in mind, we are talking about a rewrite... a completely different ME3. The Catalyst being on the Citadel isn't part of ME lore until ME3's ending. According to the Catalyst, the Citadel is merely a part of it. It's not ON the Citadel it IS the Citadel - or, more accurately, it's like the Citadels is its arm but isn't all of the Catalyst. At least, if you buy into its dialogue. The Catalyst isn't anywhere in ME1 or ME2. It's not foreshadowed in the writing of the first two games, likely because it just wasn't part of the original concept for the story. So, if we're doing an entire rewrite of ME3, we can just leave the Catalyst out of the story completely. ME3's story takes an entirely different line. What I"m saying is destroying the central seat of government for the Milky Way leaves an interesting problem (IMHO at least) for Shepard... how to bring a galaxy of different races together to fight a common enemy when there is no longer a Citadel or Citadel Council and fractured lines of communication throughout the former empire. This is the problem Javik indicates that the Protheans faced... and they lost the war.
You all can get hung up on continuing to try to reconcile the Catalyst into the current ME3 story... but that was NOT the direction I was intending at all with my post. As you all know, I'm perfectly OK with the ORIGINAL endings (pre-EC). I do see descrepancies and plot holes, but they honestly do not bother me. I can interpret all the endings in a variety of ways depending on how I want to roleplay Shepard. The endings work OK for me.
IF they do a reboot, my preference is to see a reboot story that is almost unrecognizable from the first. As I've said many, many times - The last thing I want is a canon ME3 ending chosen.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 26, 2018 2:23:40 GMT
So, if we're doing an entire rewrite of ME3, we can just leave the Catalyst out of the story completely. *cough*MEHEM*cough*
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 11:48:10 GMT
So, if we're doing an entire rewrite of ME3, we can just leave the Catalyst out of the story completely. *cough*MEHEM*cough* MEHEM is not a rewrite of the entire story. It's a changed ending tacked onto the the game as it is. It's also unofficial. If Bioware chose to reboot ME3 using MEHEM as a new official ending, I'd have less complaint than if they chose to canonize one of their official ending. I don't see it happening though because whoever wrote MEHEM has the rights to it and Bioware would have to make a financial deal with that person in order to use it. It's something that is being done as Bethseda is pulling mods into it's Creation Club for Fallout 4, but I see plenty of complaints about it from gamers who don't want to see the "free modding" principle monetized by the game developers. Furthermore, MEHEM does not resolve "The Problem with Earth" which, I thought, this thread was about.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,308
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2018 12:27:29 GMT
Leaving Leviathan junior out of the game? Easy. A moment after Shepard passes out, the crucible fires after the arms to the Citadel are opened, destroying the reapers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 13:20:29 GMT
Leaving Leviathan junior out of the game? Easy. A moment after Shepard passes out, the crucible fires after the arms to the Citadel are opened, destroying the reapers. Same sort of thing as Shepard dying reaching for the console as Hackett indicates it's not firing and everything after that point is the hallucination of a dying person (a personal and private end of life reconciliation). Only difference is Shepard living in yours and Shepard giving his life for the cause in mine. In either case, Hackett must ultimately figure it out and get the Crucible to fire. What it actually does, no one really knows for sure... because not really knowing what it does IS absolutely a canon concept introduced in ME3.
... and it STILL doesn't resolve "The Problem with Earth."
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,308
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Aug 26, 2018 13:31:14 GMT
Never said it was a problem for Earth.
The problem with Earth is there wasn't enough time spent on the planet. Had more time been given to ME3, it's possible a couple extra mission may have been added on Earth. Go save a platoon of soldiers or a group civilians. A mission that ends with the destruction of a processing center.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 13:38:10 GMT
Never said it was a problem for Earth. The problem with Earth is there wasn't enough time spent on the planet. Had more time been given to ME3, it's possible a couple extra mission may have been added on Earth. Go save a platoon of soldiers or a group civilians. A mission that ends with the destruction of a processing center. I disagree. I have no emotional connection with Tuchanka and there are 4 missions available on that planet. The only thing that provides Shepard possibly with a quasi-emotional connection with Rannoch is romancing Tali. The number of missions on the planet absolutely doesn't matter. If people can't recognize that one of the Shepard backgrounds involves him/her being born on Earth and living there for his/her first 18 years and that Shepard would likely have some sort of emotional connection to the planet having left a good friend and mentor there, throwing in a couple of side missions there would provide an emotional connection enough to justify Shepard fighting so adamantly to convince a galaxy to "take back Earth."
|
|
copper
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
inherit
9638
0
1,084
copper
567
Dec 22, 2017 21:33:14 GMT
December 2017
copper
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by copper on Aug 26, 2018 15:42:33 GMT
Never said it was a problem for Earth. The problem with Earth is there wasn't enough time spent on the planet. Had more time been given to ME3, it's possible a couple extra mission may have been added on Earth. Go save a platoon of soldiers or a group civilians. A mission that ends with the destruction of a processing center. I disagree. I have no emotional connection with Tuchanka and there are 4 missions available on that planet. The only thing that provides Shepard possibly with a quasi-emotional connection with Rannoch is romancing Tali. The number of missions on the planet absolutely doesn't matter. If people can't recognize that one of the Shepard backgrounds involves him/her being born on Earth and living there for his/her first 18 years and that Shepard would likely have some sort of emotional connection to the planet having left a good friend and mentor there, throwing in a couple of side missions there would provide an emotional connection enough to justify Shepard fighting so adamantly to convince a galaxy to "take back Earth." Earthborn is one of three possible backgrounds. Earthborn Shepard also grew up on the street with gangs, so there's plenty of material to believe they weren't attached to their home planet. Using that background to justify every version of Shepard caring about Earth to the extent they do in game doesn't really work imo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 16:53:37 GMT
I disagree. I have no emotional connection with Tuchanka and there are 4 missions available on that planet. The only thing that provides Shepard possibly with a quasi-emotional connection with Rannoch is romancing Tali. The number of missions on the planet absolutely doesn't matter. If people can't recognize that one of the Shepard backgrounds involves him/her being born on Earth and living there for his/her first 18 years and that Shepard would likely have some sort of emotional connection to the planet having left a good friend and mentor there, throwing in a couple of side missions there would provide an emotional connection enough to justify Shepard fighting so adamantly to convince a galaxy to "take back Earth." Earthborn is one of three possible backgrounds. Earthborn Shepard also grew up on the street with gangs, so there's plenty of material to believe they weren't attached to their home planet. Using that background to justify every version of Shepard caring about Earth to the extent they do in game doesn't really work imo. However, completely ignoring that background to say that it isn't possible for any Shepard to have an emotional connection to earth also "doesn't work" in my opinion. Would you say that every Shepard can only be an ignorant A-hole killing all his/her friends in the end just because you can role play the game that way? I clearly said it was possible to role play a Shepard who had a connection to earth... I did not ever say it was the only way to play. Any Shepard, however, who considers Anderson a friend and mentor, could have a connection to earth because he/she left Anderson there and knows that Anderson is fighting specifically to save earth. Any Shepard could have developed a special fondness for earth during the six months they were incarcerated there... he/she may have even developed a special fondness for the child that he/she may have watched play on a daily basis during all those six months... depends on how you want to construct your Shepard's character... which is left open to you to a point... which is the "purpose" of a RPG game, isn't it?
|
|
copper
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
inherit
9638
0
1,084
copper
567
Dec 22, 2017 21:33:14 GMT
December 2017
copper
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by copper on Aug 27, 2018 0:36:33 GMT
Earthborn is one of three possible backgrounds. Earthborn Shepard also grew up on the street with gangs, so there's plenty of material to believe they weren't attached to their home planet. Using that background to justify every version of Shepard caring about Earth to the extent they do in game doesn't really work imo. However, completely ignoring that background to say that it isn't possible for any Shepard to have an emotional connection to earth also "doesn't work" in my opinion. Would you say that every Shepard can only be an ignorant A-hole killing all his/her friends in the end just because you can role play the game that way? I clearly said it was possible to role play a Shepard who had a connection to earth... I did not ever say it was the only way to play. Any Shepard, however, who considers Anderson a friend and mentor, could have a connection to earth because he/she left Anderson there and knows that Anderson is fighting specifically to save earth. Any Shepard could have developed a special fondness for earth during the six months they were incarcerated there... he/she may have even developed a special fondness for the child that he/she may have watched play on a daily basis during all those six months... depends on how you want to construct your Shepard's character... which is left open to you to a point... which is the "purpose" of a RPG game, isn't it? Sure, there's roleplaying reasons to say your Shepard was attached to Earth. But there's also plenty of reasons for them not to be, as shown by some of the responses in this thread. If the game was following the purpose of an rpg as you say it wouldn't decide that for you. I can see railroading us to get resources for Earth IF there's a tactical reason to do so. But there isn't, and emotional attachments shouldn't determine how assets are allocated in a galaxy wide war.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 1:11:20 GMT
However, completely ignoring that background to say that it isn't possible for any Shepard to have an emotional connection to earth also "doesn't work" in my opinion. Would you say that every Shepard can only be an ignorant A-hole killing all his/her friends in the end just because you can role play the game that way? I clearly said it was possible to role play a Shepard who had a connection to earth... I did not ever say it was the only way to play. Any Shepard, however, who considers Anderson a friend and mentor, could have a connection to earth because he/she left Anderson there and knows that Anderson is fighting specifically to save earth. Any Shepard could have developed a special fondness for earth during the six months they were incarcerated there... he/she may have even developed a special fondness for the child that he/she may have watched play on a daily basis during all those six months... depends on how you want to construct your Shepard's character... which is left open to you to a point... which is the "purpose" of a RPG game, isn't it? Sure, there's roleplaying reasons to say your Shepard was attached to Earth. But there's also plenty of reasons for them not to be, as shown by some of the responses in this thread. If the game was following the purpose of an rpg as you say it wouldn't decide that for you. I can see railroading us to get resources for Earth IF there's a tactical reason to do so. But there isn't, and emotional attachments shouldn't determine how assets are allocated in a galaxy wide war. Since when are the War Assets allocated to earth? They are being allocated to the Crucible, which is not designated to protect or defend earth only but is being built to attack the reapers and prevent them from harvesting all intelligent life in the galaxy. Where it is to be eventually deployed is unknown by anyone until Vendetta reveals that the Crucible needs to be connected to the Citadel and the Reapers have moved the Citadel to the Sol system.
When Shepard first goes to the Council, he/she believes that earth was among the first planets hit. Over the course of the game, he/she becomes aware that the Khar'shan was hit before earth. Palaven was probably under attack, but the Turian Councillor remains strangely silent about that during that first meeting... allowing Udina to blatantly tell him that earth was the first Council world hit... so it either had not been hit yet at that point or the Turian councillor was unaware of it during the meeting. The Asari and Salarian worlds had not yet been hit since the Asari Councillor indicates that the Reapers were only "pressing on" the borders of their space. Shepard is merely trying to raise a quick response in order to try to thwart the attack BEFORE those other worlds were hit. It's an aggressive approach - hit them hard before they can get a foothold. What would you propose, send all the assets away to the farthest, safest reaches of the galaxy and wait for the reapers to spread their attack there? It's only since Shepard is unable to get the others to commit to a quick response, the attack spreads to the other planets over the course of the game. No emotional attachment to earth is required really. It's not like Shepherd goes on about being born on earth (that's Anderson's role).. but at least the Earthborn background is available if the player wants to give their Shepard some sort of emotional attachment to earth.
What you initially stated was: and I still disagree with that statement. As I said initially, you can select dialogue in ME1 that indicates Shepard left earth because he/she didn't like it there; but you don't have to select that dialogue and, therefore, you can role play as a Shepard who is fond of earth.
|
|
copper
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
inherit
9638
0
1,084
copper
567
Dec 22, 2017 21:33:14 GMT
December 2017
copper
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by copper on Aug 27, 2018 1:52:48 GMT
I could be forgetting parts of the game, but if I recall correctly Shepard doesn't stop preaching about Earth even after hearing how hard the other planets are being hit. I could be wrong on that part though.
My point about the backgrounds, which is what started this discussion, is based on only 1 out of 3 having a history with Earth, with that one Earthborn background involving a really rough childhood. The side quest with that background in the first game involves one of your former gang members blackmailing you for your help. So personally I think Shepard is more predisposed to not have a personal attachment to Earth. If you disagree that's fine, but just because you can roleplay Shepard that way doesn't mean everyone would, or that the auto dialogue should force that.
|
|
inherit
Warning Points: 1
3116
0
Aug 28, 2024 23:38:02 GMT
8,041
vonuber
2,580
January 2017
vonuber
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by vonuber on Aug 27, 2018 11:48:37 GMT
Yup, even in the light of the fires of Palaven she whinges about earth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 13:08:29 GMT
I could be forgetting parts of the game, but if I recall correctly Shepard doesn't stop preaching about Earth even after hearing how hard the other planets are being hit. I could be wrong on that part though. My point about the backgrounds, which is what started this discussion, is based on only 1 out of 3 having a history with Earth, with that one Earthborn background involving a really rough childhood. The side quest with that background in the first game involves one of your former gang members blackmailing you for your help. So personally I think Shepard is more predisposed to not have a personal attachment to Earth. If you disagree that's fine, but just because you can roleplay Shepard that way doesn't mean everyone would, or that the auto dialogue should force that. You said expressly that it did not match ANY background. It does. It matches 1 of 3. Your statement is quite simply inaccurate. You're choosing to not select that background and then complaining that the game doesn't 100% adapt to match the background YOU want to play. Just because you don't want to role play Shepard the way he/she is written, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't. It you had said it doesn't fit MOST available backgrounds in the game, I'd have accepted that, but you didn't. You exaggerated the situation and that's on you, not me.
There are RPG's that provide far less latitude in playing different personalities of characters. The Witcher series is a good example. Geralt is Geralt. His background is set to only 1. You cannot change his gender. You can only marginally change his stance on being a Witcher. The game railroads you through Witcher lore into asking for money for every job... the choice you have is really whether or not you haggle for more from people who can't afford it and that little difference is suppose to differentiate "nice" Geralt from "not so nice" Geralt.
Now, let's look at Fallout 4. That game offers an extremely wide range of dialogue and situation options... BUT, the overall game mechanic ultimately forces you to choose such that you will have to eliminate at least 1 faction. The charisma mechanic ensures that, even with a 10 charisma, you can still randomly fail checks such that you may have to kill someone you don't want to kill or settle a situation in a manner inconsistent with how you're role playing the Sole Survivor. The player is not in 100% control of that RPG either.
In ME, Bioware offered the player a fairly wide range of different personalities for Shepard, but that did introduce some inconsistencies in the dialogue. Places where the dialogue matches 1 of the backgrounds, but not all. It also happened in ME1 though. For example, when Toombs goes onto to Ruthless Shepard about being in the unit on Akuze, saying Shepards escaped with "a few scars and a scary reputation." Does War Hero Shepard have a "scary reputation? Was Ruthless Shepard ever on Akuze? No. So, yeah, even in lauded ME1, there are places where the dialogue fails to adapt to all the available backgrounds. Big hairy deal...
|
|
copper
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
inherit
9638
0
1,084
copper
567
Dec 22, 2017 21:33:14 GMT
December 2017
copper
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by copper on Aug 27, 2018 13:42:16 GMT
You know what, okay. I still disagree with you, and vice versa. I'm also not sure we're even discussing the same things at this point. I don't think us continuing to talk in circles will change that.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Aug 27, 2018 14:53:09 GMT
You know what, okay. I still disagree with you, and vice versa. I'm also not sure we're even discussing the same things at this point. I don't think us continuing to talk in circles will change that. I wish all people could let it lie. I'm not specifically talking about Up but there's at least one other person on this forum that tries to force people into agreement, which never works.
I admit to sometimes trying to get my point across when I think it wasn't understood. Sometimes it's a matter of give and take. I might agree with some parts but not others. If I feel I'm proven wrong I tend to respond with a "like" to the post that convinced me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 15:12:43 GMT
You know what, okay. I still disagree with you, and vice versa. I'm also not sure we're even discussing the same things at this point. I don't think us continuing to talk in circles will change that. What exactly are you disagreeing with? Are you saying you did not use the term "any" in your initial comment? Are you still defending that even though I've expressly shown that it does match 1 background out of them and that it can be reconciled to match the others if one considers that Anderson, a good friend and mentor, is on earth? I'm not saying it matches or can be made to match every situation, but it does match 1 and can be made to match others. That you choose not to and would rather just heap criticism on the writing is your affair. Have at it. I care not. Your initial statement is inaccurate, period. That is my entire argument. FIN.
|
|
copper
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
inherit
9638
0
1,084
copper
567
Dec 22, 2017 21:33:14 GMT
December 2017
copper
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by copper on Aug 27, 2018 22:42:44 GMT
You know what, okay. I still disagree with you, and vice versa. I'm also not sure we're even discussing the same things at this point. I don't think us continuing to talk in circles will change that. I wish all people could let it lie. I'm not specifically talking about Up but there's at least one other person on this forum that tries to force people into agreement, which never works.
I admit to sometimes trying to get my point across when I think it wasn't understood. Sometimes it's a matter of give and take. I might agree with some parts but not others. If I feel I'm proven wrong I tend to respond with a "like" to the post that convinced me.
For me I don't always read the tone right of the other person on the Internet. So either I'll accidentally offend them or I'll misread their tone to be more aggressive than it actually is. Either way it's exhausting, so I prefer to keep my interactions on forums on the lighter side of things. You know what, okay. I still disagree with you, and vice versa. I'm also not sure we're even discussing the same things at this point. I don't think us continuing to talk in circles will change that. What exactly are you disagreeing with? Are you saying you did not use the term "any" in your initial comment? Are you still defending that even though I've expressly shown that it does match 1 background out of them and that it can be reconciled to match the others if one considers that Anderson, a good friend and mentor, is on earth? I'm not saying it matches or can be made to match every situation, but it does match 1 and can be made to match others. That you choose not to and would rather just heap criticism on the writing is your affair. Have at it. I care not. Your initial statement is inaccurate, period. That is my entire argument. FIN. I think we shouldn't have to change how we roleplay the first two games because of the auto dialogue of the final game of the trilogy. So yeah for me it's a writing thing.
|
|