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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 21:20:24 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to miss out on slaying space dragons in an Iron Man suit for purple loot drops since that's not what I play Bioware games for. My Blizzard days are past. I play them to be in a story with dialogue, companions, choices, and to do it ALONE! Then you should play a game that offers those things. I think we've discussed at length previously that Anthem may not be for you. There's nothing wrong with you not liking what it is, but I'm sure there are many, myself included, that are looking forward to it.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 21:20:58 GMT
How is this different from any other game ever released from a studio with pre-existing franchises?
In the absolute, group B seems bigger than it ought to be given the information out there, but relatively speaking, Bioware has done an excellent job of getting the word out. You think the size of B is bad? Think of how much bigger B would be if Bioware had said nothing about Anthem all this year and taken a Bethesda-style super secret TESNext approach instead.
Anthem is also a very complicated, very ambitious new hybrid of MP and story-telling. The probability of misunderstanding from groups A, B and C is much higher than for a more typical game.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2018 21:25:03 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to miss out on slaying space dragons in an Iron Man suit for purple loot drops since that's not what I play Bioware games for. My Blizzard days are past. I play them to be in a story with dialogue, companions, choices, and to do it ALONE! Then you should play a game that offers those things. I think we've discussed at length previously that Anthem may not be for you. There's nothing wrong with you not liking what it is, but I'm sure there are many, myself included, that are looking forward to it. Hope you enjoy playing with the CoD crowd then. He he he... 😈
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 21:25:33 GMT
C: Those who want Anthem to be something that it like can't, or what Bioware ever set out for the game to be I don't want to be unkind, but if it's "C' how many months of complaining are really required before it's time to focus on something else?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 21:26:22 GMT
A large part of the problem is that Bioware hasn't cultivated a fanbase and therefore cannot rely on that fanbase to create hype about the game. Think about it. Dragon Age Origins was an old school strategic RPG, so old school RPG players flock to Bioware. Does Bioware cater to these fans for DA2? No, they create a small scale action game. Do they cater to these fans for DA:I? No, they create an open world game. Well, at least some of these players can enjoy ME, right? Wrong, it's a shooter. Good thing all of these players can enjoy Anthem... BZZZZZT! Wrong again, co-op. It's important to say why this happened, though. Because if that initial fanbase would just have grown 30%+ in terms of dollars spent, year over year, for a few decades, none of your second paragraph would have happened. A fanbase is just a means to a business opportunity. If another fanbase offers a larger business opportunity, and the game dev is a public company, they pretty much have no choice but to pursue the new fanbase. Whether this chasing the money is a good thing or bad thing depends on one's preferences for game genres. Consider God of War 2018. I don't know how much the original spectacle combat fanbase is howling about the debasing of their franchise, but GoW 2018 is kicking ass as a story-driven action game. As far as I'm concerned, that was a good business decision.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 21:27:57 GMT
C: Those who want Anthem to be something that it like can't, or what Bioware ever set out for the game to be I don't want to be unkind, but if it's "C' how many months of complaining are really required before it's time to focus on something else? Sadly, there is no statute of limitations on whining and grousing.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2018 21:30:09 GMT
C: Those who want Anthem to be something that it like can't, or what Bioware ever set out for the game to be I don't want to be unkind, but if it's "C' how many months of complaining are really required before it's time to focus on something else? Ask ME3
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 21:32:24 GMT
Didn't see any complaints from those on ME3 multiplayer that I played with today. 6 years old and still active lobbies.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2018 21:37:00 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to miss out on slaying space dragons in an Iron Man suit for purple loot drops since that's not what I play Bioware games for. My Blizzard days are past. I play them to be in a story with dialogue, companions, choices, and to do it ALONE! Then you should play a game that offers those things. I think we've discussed at length previously that Anthem may not be for you. There's nothing wrong with you not liking what it is, but I'm sure there are many, myself included, that are looking forward to it. I intend to. But that doesn't mean I'm going to sit down and shut up. This isn't (or shouldn't be) an echo chamber.
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Post by madhabber on Sept 2, 2018 21:37:26 GMT
In the absolute, group B seems bigger than it ought to be given the information out there, but relatively speaking, Bioware has done an excellent job of getting the word out. You think the size of B is bad? Think of how much bigger B would be if Bioware had said nothing about Anthem all this year and taken a Bethesda-style super secret TESNext approach instead. There is a lot of people in group B that are purposefully not following any news because it's published by EA. Since it is published by them it is only a greedy cash grab and will be filled with loot boxes and micro transactions despite the developers saying otherwise. If they do follow news it is guys like CleanPrinceGaming (a poor researcher) and Yong Yea that tend to focus on only negative news. You can find them easily they usually have two modes "Destiny 2.5/3" or "EA will ruin this with loot boxes"
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2018 21:38:28 GMT
Didn't see any complaints from those on ME3 multiplayer that I played with today. 6 years old and still active lobbies. Yeah and all that talk about the ending, mistreatment of companions, lack of dialogue options, all that went away, huh? Not at all like they went and built a whole new game around those things, right?
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2018 21:40:38 GMT
This isn't (or shouldn't be) an echo chamber. Nor would I suggest otherwise, it just strikes me that Anthem isn't a game you're in any shape or form interested in. We're not talking mild concerns that you want to debate... Not at all like they went and built a whole new game around those things, right? The multiplayer was arguably the most successful part of ME3, so sure, sounds like a great idea to do more.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2018 21:50:16 GMT
This isn't (or shouldn't be) an echo chamber. Nor would I suggest otherwise, it just strikes me that Anthem isn't a game you're in any shape or form interested in. We're not talking mild concerns that you want to debate... Just pointing out that maybe a lot of people are getting Bioware's message loud and clear, and aren't happy about it. They've done more in every single game that's come out since.
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Post by NotN7 on Sept 2, 2018 21:51:26 GMT
Myself, I just wish they would put out the information i'm looking for that being is it a balanced MP/solo game that I may spend my money on or not, so far they have not, to me they are just throwing out cookies to the non MP type players to see who they can catch in their nets. the panels, tweets etc is just putting out too much contradicting info, hehe would be nice if just one person did all the talking.
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Post by rras1994 on Sept 2, 2018 21:52:58 GMT
Myself, I just wish they would put out the information i'm looking for that being is it a balanced MP/solo game that I may spend my money on or not, so far they have not, to me they are just throwing out cookies to the non MP type players to see who they can catch in their nets. the panels, tweets etc is just putting out too much contradicting info, hehe would be nice if just one person did all the talking. I mean there's going to be demos and early access which will inevitably get shown on youtube and twitch - there will be plenty of opportunity before launch to get the info you want
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2018 22:08:53 GMT
Myself, I just wish they would put out the information i'm looking for that being is it a balanced MP/solo game that I may spend my money on or not, so far they have not, to me they are just throwing out cookies to the non MP type players to see who they can catch in their nets. the panels, tweets etc is just putting out too much contradicting info, hehe would be nice if just one person did all the talking. I think that information is already available. It's not a single-player game experience. It's not a balanced MP/solo game. They've been saying that since day one. I'd say that the balance of MP/solo is the same as for ME3 or DAI, but reversed. The game is MP first, with solo mode for those who want it. Does this mean solo will be horrible? I don't think so. I'm actually looking forward to it. But I was a full-time MP FPS player for years, so I get MP and it doesn't scare me. For me, I expect solo mode is more like a challenge mode for MP, rather than a full single-player experience like ME or DA. Or HZD or GoW for that matter. But rras1994 is right, you can just wait for the LP's that will come out on Feb 1 and for the days after. You'll have a whole month to decide.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 2, 2018 23:42:09 GMT
Then you should play a game that offers those things. I think we've discussed at length previously that Anthem may not be for you. There's nothing wrong with you not liking what it is, but I'm sure there are many, myself included, that are looking forward to it. Hope you enjoy playing with the CoD crowd then. He he he... 😈 Not that the RPG crowd is much better though.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 2, 2018 23:54:51 GMT
Hope you enjoy playing with the CoD crowd then. He he he... 😈 Not that the RPG crowd is much better though. Hence why we play games that we like the look of.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 3, 2018 0:04:49 GMT
Oh you two love-birds Honestly, I think on the initial campaign front, there's not many ways BioWare can go about addressing some of their most ardent critics. Ever since EA CEO Blake Jorgensens comments about linear single-player games, the online community of gamers have been circling the bandwagons around developers who primarily specialize in making well-told or narrative drive single-player stories. And while I'm sure that this has emboldened these developers (and publishers) in continuing to make these types of games, I also think a certain level of freedom has been lost to them as well. The extra attention and scrutiny placed upon them has now reinforced this idea that these developers can no longer deviate from the story-driven, single-player path; which would be seen as joining the "dark side". While developers have an audience to appeal to, and a product to sell, they are also visual artists that choose to create of their own free will. To me, that should afford them the freedom to try new things. This could be a poor analogy in the end, but I hope it drives a point home. Think about Blizzard prior to Overwatch. They were predominantly known for making RPGS (ARPG -Diablo, MMORPG - WoW), and an RTS strategy game (Starcraft). Though there were rumors of them making a shooters initially, who would have thought that making a shooter would have been the path Blizzard would go down? Let alone a shooter that became so commercially successful. This isn't me saying Anthem will be this highly reviewed, highly successful franchise. Time will tell. It's the point that Blizzard went into making Overwatch with not nearly as much criticism as BioWare did when stepping out of their wheelhouse. I don't think Anthem would have received anywhere near as much controversy as it has today if 1) it wasn't published by EA, and 2) it wasn't in the shared world, looter-shooter genre. EA has undoubtedly brought upon themselves a lot of bad press over these past two years, and the shared world genres most prominent games (Destiny and The Division) both suffered criticisms upon their initial release. Both instances aren't even BioWare's fault really, or they didn't have a say in the matter (no, I'm not forgetting Andromeda). BioWare's already made two multiplayer focused games before with Neverwinter Nights and SW:TOR, and they've dabbled in multiplayer on several occasions in their recent titles; so it can't JUST be multiplayer. Hell, their very first game was a multiplayer mech game. As far as I'm concerned, BioWare probably played it safe with making this style of game a new IP. I could have seen far more pushback if they had made this same design decision with Mass Effect or Dragon Age; looking at Fallout 76 here.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 3, 2018 15:17:46 GMT
Oh you two love-birds For sure, I've bickered with Iakus for years, I do respect him.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 3, 2018 16:21:35 GMT
They've done more less in every single game that's come out since. Sorry. Had to ftfy. They did make multiplayer in every single game since, but they were less than ME3MP. MEAMP was good enough to have some fans still playing, but failed to properly build on 3MP and instead unneccessarily reinventing wheels (this is a large part of MEA general fail for me). DAIMP was an abomination that only the hardcore got into, somehow. Bless their hearts.
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Post by traks on Sept 3, 2018 16:33:48 GMT
I think their message is pretty clear: they want to enter the multiplayer shooter market with the goal of providing the best story a multiplayer shooter has seen yet. We will see, whether they succeed, but their goal is no secret.
What I don't get is the criticism of this message. They want to do something new and think they have a very good opportunity to succeed, so why not? Doesn't mean that they abandon their single player franchises DA and ME. If they do, that's another story, but comparing and criticizing Anthem to their single player games doesn't make any sense IMO. The question for Anthem should just be whether it'll be a good or great or bad game in the multiplayer shooter genre.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Sept 3, 2018 18:49:01 GMT
From my point of view, the messaging has been on point. They haven't started the BIG marketing push yet, and I'm sure a lot of things in the game can still change at this point, so they don't want to go too deep on anything just yet.
I think the problem that most people seem to be having is that they assume that this is a Destiny/Division "looter-shooter" clone and they want Bioware to come out and say "Hey, everyone! Anthem has basically no story! It's all about kill the thing, get the RNG loot drop, rinse, repeat!" However, I don't think that's what the GAME actually is. I think people are wanting to put it in a box that it doesn't fit into. From how Bioware has described what they are aiming for, it really sounds like there's no true comparison to any current game. It has elements of Destiny/Division/Warframe, sure, but how they are implementing the story and how the game actually plays, I feel, will be quite different.
Of course, maybe I'm just buying in to their hype speak and it'll basically be 3rd-person Bioware Destiny. But that's not the feeling I'm getting from it currently. I think the message they have been putting out there is that this is a game that you will play with friends (but also possibly alone), but it also comes with a personal story and decisions that impact your game-world (if only in Fort Tarsis).
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 3, 2018 18:49:31 GMT
I think their message is pretty clear: they want to enter the multiplayer shooter market with the goal of providing the best story a multiplayer shooter has seen yet. We will see, whether they succeed, but their goal is no secret. What I don't get is the criticism of this message. They want to do something new and think they have a very good opportunity to succeed, so why not? Doesn't mean that they abandon their single player franchises DA and ME. If they do, that's another story, but comparing and criticizing Anthem to their single player games doesn't make any sense IMO. The question for Anthem should just be whether it'll be a good or great or bad game in the multiplayer shooter genre. they literally shunted off Mass Effect Andromeda to the B team in order to make their Destiny clone. Perhaps people like me don't want to believe that BioWare really sat down and said "you know what we should do, make a game with no romances, minimal story, based around 'live content', in a co-op loot shooter". Like that kinda of crap had to come down from EA right? RIGHT?!
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Post by smilesja on Sept 3, 2018 18:54:30 GMT
I think their message is pretty clear: they want to enter the multiplayer shooter market with the goal of providing the best story a multiplayer shooter has seen yet. We will see, whether they succeed, but their goal is no secret. What I don't get is the criticism of this message. They want to do something new and think they have a very good opportunity to succeed, so why not? Doesn't mean that they abandon their single player franchises DA and ME. If they do, that's another story, but comparing and criticizing Anthem to their single player games doesn't make any sense IMO. The question for Anthem should just be whether it'll be a good or great or bad game in the multiplayer shooter genre. they literally shunted off Mass Effect Andromeda to the B team in order to make their Destiny clone. Perhaps people like me don't want to believe that BioWare really sat down and said "you know what we should do, make a game with no romances, minimal story, based around 'live content', in a co-op loot shooter". Like that kinda of crap had to come down from EA right? RIGHT?! Perhaps they wanted to try something different and branch out rather than making the same games. Sure EA probably influenced them, but I say it’s fine for them to take risks will they succeed is the question.
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