Tapster's Tavern - For all your dwarven needs !

There was a fun moment regarding this in the Cousland origin:


D'awww protective big bro!

Given the ever decreasing Elven and Dwarven populations in Thedas, I wonder if the writers will use this fact to explore complex, nuanced, or even *gasp!* sympathetic portrayals of characters who urge making children. That not everyone who favors reproduction is some kind of bigot, but sees the very real possibility of dying out. I understand Bioware not wanting to look like they could be "shaming" gay, lesbian, and/or players who simply don't want kids, but to completely ignore this in-universe crisis reeks of poor world building.  Not to mention how discussing it could also bring to light similar concerns faced by real world dwindling peoples, like various indigenous and Native American tribes, among others.

I think you're reading too much into it re: Bioware's intentions. To me, it simply seems practical and realistic. Or if you consider the Tevinter altus, the natural behavioral outcome of their goal to produce more/better mages. Some people don't like to consider this, but it's true, it "makes sense."

Let's consider Star Trek and the utopia that fictional setting presents, where there is no discrimination, no poverty, etc. It's never stated how the ST universe came to this point, it's usually presented as "we just did it." But is this realistic? Given the current state of our world, I tend to think not. This serves as the backdrop for this show, but is rarely addressed, as it's not the focus of any given episode. The practical aspects of this can be ignored because it rarely factors into the goings on. However, that is not the case in a setting like Dragon Age where you do have to deal with those sorts of issues.

So homosexuality isn't a big deal, even among Tevnter altus it's accepted, but you still have to do your duty. Does it suck? It sure does. But it fits the setting. I think there is time and place for ignoring these practical concerns, as they do in Star Trek, but Dragon Age is not it.


The argument at that point becomes whether that is a worthwhile thing to have as a part of any given culture in a fictional setting. I think it's important to point out that heterosexual people will face the same pressures to pair off, or even be seen as deficient if you can't or don't for whatever reason. You see some of this attitude with Cammen/Gheyna in DAO. The goal there is to find a worthy mate who can provide for the clan, which is the same as most courting rituals performed by animals: the males strive to show that they are a good provider so the female knows their offspring will have a good chance at success.

I think it makes for varied and interesting culture dynamics because there are different reasons for all of these things, depending on the culture. This attitude is likely not present in common Tevinter society. Why would it be? I would say that a similar divide applies to the dwarves. While the overall birthrate is low, I think it's more likely that the nobility will be more focused on preserving the strength of their houses and status; to do that you need births.

Both groups of elves have different dynamics and different reasons for doing things. The Dalish are so low in numbers that they need more Dalish to support and continue the clan. The city elves have a different component in that they are essentially on an island unto themselves in their alienage. Having this is a way to preserve tradition, keep stability and order, in a place that lends itself to chaos.


I personally don't want children and I resent the cultural attitude that women who think that way are somehow broken. Even with that mindset, I see nothing wrong with this aspect of Dragon Age. That said, I think it's preferable if this stays as largely an NPC issue. I don't want forced children/family intruding on my character, as with Gil in MEA (if you romance him).

EEEEEWWWW OH GOD, speaking of dwarf babies, I was replaying the DN origin and this is what happens if your female dwarf noble tries to have a "good" relationship with Trian instead of sassing him:

Trian: Perhaps you were right, Bhelen, when you said our sister wasn't all useless breeding flesh.

Uggghhh There is so much sexism in both dwarf origins, more so than in any other parts of the game. It's so revolting.

That said... it would be interesting if they just had that as a facet of dwarven society in general. Like, say we have more dwarf interaction in DA4, or something.

While there is some sexism and misogyny shown by humans, I've long maintained that the matriarchal Chantry is one reason things are much more egalitarian in the human lands; the elves have their female gods as well, in their pantheon. I'm not too familiar with the various elf things, but I can't recall those types of instances with elves (among themselves).


As an aside, I find it interesting that, if you don't play an Aeducan, that origin defaults to male, when it doesn't have to. When you finally get to Orzammar later on and ask someone about the incident, she says, "Everyone knows Behlen had his brother [Trian] killed and let his father's favorite son take the blame." But they could have easily had it be "favorite child" instead. IMO that's unfortunate.

I'm iffy on whether gender specifics are mentioned for other origins. The mage PC doesn't seem to get a mention at all, and neither does the Dalish PC (we don't interact with the clan). I don't remember if Shianni mentions her cousin or refers to their gender. I just played through the dwarf stuff, and saw the reference to Brosca, but can't remember if gender was referenced, or if Leske just says, "my friend" -- damn you, sieve mind!

Wait... what? Really? What do you have to choose as options to get this?


Also, Gorim is awesome.

Ha, he is awesome indeed!

He's not actually beaten during the course of the game, but in that first scene in the bedroom if you come onto him he'll say, "don't you remember how this game goes? I get undressed, then one of your brothers or cousins appears and thrashes me."

edit: ninja'd!

Some lovely Rica fanart (with bonus Bhelen hands):



No idea, honestly.

Now it's all coming back to me... 🤔 Vartag's comment that "the Assembly is no place for a woman"... that one guy berating his female companion, "trust a woman to speak of things she doesn't understand"...


Oh, I'm glad you brought that up! I usually play a female DN and the interaction with Adal stood out as a kind of, "oh, I see, guess we're kind of unusual in this culture" moment... but a few weeks ago I played through it as a man and WOW, that "put her in her place" line took me off-guard. I really didn't expect it. I almost find it worse that the Proving Master is so complimentary to your face as a woman (well, obviously, since you could probably have him executed!), but then turns around and says something like that to your male counterpart.


I don't know about Bhelen; he's so manipulative, it's hard to say whether he put those words in Trian's mouth or holds those opinions himself. He does dismissively call Mardy a whore if you try to get your son legitimized. He also mentions that the Assembly has twice elected the younger sister of the heir apparent to rule Orzammar, soooo... dunno.

Yup.

Eh, just because he does right by one castless woman doesn't mean he still isn't a sexist asshole, or that he even cares about the castless. There are plenty of men married to women, who are also fathers, who are sexist assholes. Some of those men may even be married to women of a different race and still be racists and are the type to say that they aren't a racist because they have a whatever partner or half-whatever kids, or whatever friends.

The true measure of a person is based on their behavior with all sorts of people over a period of time. Doing a single decent thing doesn't absolve him of his general assholey behavior.

Do we know the sex of the baby, or does he marry her when she's still pregnant?