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Post by Hrungr on Jan 30, 2021 19:12:37 GMT
There's one other long, forgotten hint that Calpernia might be in DA4...
Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon (Apr 10, 2018) TFW you learn you've been misspelling "Calpernia" for ages.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 30, 2021 20:38:12 GMT
There's one other long, forgotten hint that Calpernia might be in DA4...Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon (Apr 10, 2018) TFW you learn you've been misspelling "Calpernia" for ages. isnt he involved with EA Motive now or is that a different Frazier?
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 30, 2021 20:42:42 GMT
There's one other long, forgotten hint that Calpernia might be in DA4...Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon (Apr 10, 2018) TFW you learn you've been misspelling "Calpernia" for ages. isnt he involved with EA Motive now or is that a different Frazier? Yeah, he's with Motive now. Motive still helps out BW though.
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 31, 2021 17:40:49 GMT
I thought she was rather 'good' enemy. Unlike that Prat Samson. I wonder if they put the more interesting lieutenant on the CoJ side in order to encourage more people to take it. Calpernia's plot line was way more interesting than Samson. Madox was only vaguely interesting if you had played DA2 and so knew the connection with Samson but at the same time if you had played DA2 then it was puzzling why Corypheus would have recruited a washed out has been like Samson to be his joint second in command. Also, at least with Calpernia it made sense that he would be using a mage as his "vessel". Any filling out of Corypheus character also only occurs on the CoJ side. As a result, even though I am sympathetic to the mage cause, I found role playing reasons to go with the Templars as my canon run, plus it meant I got rid of Fiona who I thought a terrible leader of the mages. Even if Calpernia doesn't return as a companion, I do think we will see her again. The thing with Samson is, he's very one dimensional. He's all 'err I'm Evil because the plot says so'. Where as Calpernia feels like an actual person within this story/game that we all love. That makes a difference to me. Plus Samson was never a compelling character anyway. Our interactions with him in DA2 revolved around his drug addiction and selling Children.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 31, 2021 23:10:31 GMT
I wonder if they put the more interesting lieutenant on the CoJ side in order to encourage more people to take it. Calpernia's plot line was way more interesting than Samson. Madox was only vaguely interesting if you had played DA2 and so knew the connection with Samson but at the same time if you had played DA2 then it was puzzling why Corypheus would have recruited a washed out has been like Samson to be his joint second in command. Also, at least with Calpernia it made sense that he would be using a mage as his "vessel". Any filling out of Corypheus character also only occurs on the CoJ side. As a result, even though I am sympathetic to the mage cause, I found role playing reasons to go with the Templars as my canon run, plus it meant I got rid of Fiona who I thought a terrible leader of the mages. Even if Calpernia doesn't return as a companion, I do think we will see her again. The thing with Samson is, he's very one dimensional. He's all 'err I'm Evil because the plot says so'. Where as Calpernia feels like an actual person within this story/game that we all love. That makes a difference to me. Plus Samson was never a compelling character anyway. Our interactions with him in DA2 revolved around his drug addiction and selling Children. Samson was more three-dimensional than Calpernia.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 31, 2021 23:22:40 GMT
The thing with Samson is, he's very one dimensional. He's all 'err I'm Evil because the plot says so'. Where as Calpernia feels like an actual person within this story/game that we all love. That makes a difference to me. Plus Samson was never a compelling character anyway. Our interactions with him in DA2 revolved around his drug addiction and selling Children. Samson was more three-dimensional than Calpernia. Could you show your work on that? Samson gets points for his DA2 appearance, yeah, but I think the interesting parts of him were gone by DAI.
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Post by xerrai on Feb 1, 2021 1:47:06 GMT
Samson was more three-dimensional than Calpernia. Could you show your work on that? Samson gets points for his DA2 appearance, yeah, but I think the interesting parts of him were gone by DAI. I don't neccesarily think it was gone, I just don't think it was really shown all that much. His premise, of being an ex-templar who was abandoned by the Chantry, seems interesting enough. He even showed a form of compassion to a tranquil. But somehow his cutscenes in DAI just fell flat. He just seemed like someone who wanted to watch the world burn, caring nothing of the men and people he was sacrificing along the way and even taking away thier humanity by administrating red lyrium. He blathers on about giving them purpose, but its hard to view that purpose as anything but standard evil diatribe when it seems to lead to nothing but red lyrium monstrosities. It's easy to dismiss and roll your eyes at. His short story in comparison shed more light on mindset, and why he was willing to push the red templars to such extremes. He wasn't just frustrated with his abandonment by the Chantry, he felt disillusioned with the world in general. In his view, the world is an abomination and is more or less already lost: "We’re going to break this blighted world and rebuild it. There’ll be blood and a lot of it will be ours.” He hardened his tone. “Some of you will change—maybe into something monstrous. But then you’ll be invincible. [...] We have to be monstrous. You think the world’s going to change because you ask it nicely? We’re fighting a beast that’s had its righteous claws into Thedas for far too long—we need the same ruthlessness." But yeah. At the end of the day, I still end up liking Calpernia more than Samson as far as game portrayals go. I even prefer her as a character in general but I can see Samson's potential too.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 1, 2021 8:48:59 GMT
I think that, possibly, but of their development as interesting and not one-dimensional antagonists was cut due to the problems in development, as well as the difficulty in finding a balance between the plot/story and the open world segments.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 1, 2021 18:05:46 GMT
His short story in comparison shed more light on mindset, and why he was willing to push the red templars to such extremes. This is where I get so frustrated that character development often seems to end up occurring in associated media rather than in the game itself. Still at least with Calpernia we still got some sense of the person in the stories, whereas Samson barely had any development at all in game. Strangely enough that was also true of Corypheus on Samson's side of the story. I still think Corypheus could have been so much more interesting than he was but we did get some degree of insight in Champions of the Just. Which highlights another beef of mine. Do not put character development of the main antagonist in only one side of a branching plot line. Personally I think it should never have been split like that in DAI and we should still have got insights into Corypheus and both his lieutenants no matter who you went to. Of course, I also thought time travel should never had been part of Thedas.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 3, 2021 17:55:23 GMT
Could you show your work on that? Samson gets points for his DA2 appearance, yeah, but I think the interesting parts of him were gone by DAI. I don't neccesarily think it was gone, I just don't think it was really shown all that much. His premise, of being an ex-templar who was abandoned by the Chantry, seems interesting enough. He even showed a form of compassion to a tranquil. But somehow his cutscenes in DAI just fell flat. He just seemed like someone who wanted to watch the world burn, caring nothing of the men and people he was sacrificing along the way and even taking away thier humanity by administrating red lyrium. He blathers on about giving them purpose, but its hard to view that purpose as anything but standard evil diatribe when it seems to lead to nothing but red lyrium monstrosities. It's easy to dismiss and roll your eyes at. Samson in DA2 was a complicated man. He was an ex-Templar who is sympathetic to mages, but not willing to stick his neck out for them. An state-sponsored addict who's supplier cut him off and left him out to dry. He was crass and crude, but you got the sense he was not wholly without a conscience.
Samson in DAI was a mangy dog who wanted nothing more than to bite the people who once held his leash.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Feb 4, 2021 2:20:32 GMT
I remember thinking when I played DA2 for the first time that Samson was a gentle soul beneath all the crankiness and lyrium addiction that poisoned his mind. He was kind enough to my Hawke anyway, when I heard that he was one of the bad guys in DAI I remember thinking wtf? It felt like character went the opposite way
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Post by Radec on Feb 8, 2021 21:11:36 GMT
I don't get this weird infatuation with Calpernia that some people appear to have. We talk to her only very briefly in the game, and I don't recall any memorable line from that. She's basically a forgettable side character with barely any screen time. Why anyone would want the help of a former minion of Corypheus is beyond me - it's not like she has any useful qualifications. I don't think we're going to have the job description "former cult lieutenant" anywhere in our party. Same. Why would anyone give a job to some unhinged follower of a 12 foot tall obviously evil monster man that tried to destroy the world? At best she's another Tevinter nationalist/supremacist weirdo with a magic wand and delusions of grandeur. Let us kill her for good in a sidequest or something.
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Post by xerrai on Feb 9, 2021 1:52:03 GMT
I don't get this weird infatuation with Calpernia that some people appear to have. We talk to her only very briefly in the game, and I don't recall any memorable line from that. She's basically a forgettable side character with barely any screen time. Why anyone would want the help of a former minion of Corypheus is beyond me - it's not like she has any useful qualifications. I don't think we're going to have the job description "former cult lieutenant" anywhere in our party. Same. Why would anyone give a job to some unhinged follower of a 12 foot tall obviously evil monster man that tried to destroy the world? At best she's another Tevinter nationalist/supremacist weirdo with a magic wand and delusions of grandeur. Let us kill her for good in a sidequest or something. I am personally hoping DA4 brings back the murder knife or something like it. To kill potential companions, former game antagonists like Calpernia, quest objectives, or what have you. That being said, I do believe Calpernia may have something that will be relevant to our cause in DA4. Namely, her intelligence network. In DAI we learn that one of her primary interests is elevating the slaves of Tevinter, so it was only natural to assume she had contacts of some sort within Tevinter borders. World of Thedas even expands on this and clarified that she created a network of spies loyal to "her and her alone", and that by and large, she erased virtually all known records of her existence before her time as "Calpernia". And that by the time Corypheaus was defeated, her venatori loyalists were either scattered to the winds or hell bent on hiding her secrets. What are the odds that this network just vanished? Especially if she's still alive? I don't know about you, but that sounds like a network that we need to keep an eye on. Odds are good Solas has agents in there just due to the inevitable slave-overlap, but the reverse could also apply. Even if it does come from a tevinter nationalist, Calpernia could prove herself a valuable ally in fighting Solas. Or if not an ally, then a powerful figure of interest that we can manipulate or deal with in some manner to pursue our greater goal.
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 9, 2021 7:57:32 GMT
Could you show your work on that? Samson gets points for his DA2 appearance, yeah, but I think the interesting parts of him were gone by DAI. Samson appears in DA2? In that case he must be pretty damn forgettable, because I've never made that connection even after playing the games back-to-back three separate times. Whenever Cullen started waxing lyrical about what kind of man he once I was I was just confused that the game was going to such awkward lengths to shove a backstory on this tiny secondary villain I hadn't even seen yet, who theoretically shouldn't be much more of an issue than all the other red templars I'd already killed. Personally I'd venture that he is more three-dimensional than Calpernia, but still really boring compared to her. I really wish they'd either reversed which of those two would be your nemesis depending on your choice of allies, or just cut Samson out entirely. He would have seemed a much more impactful enemy for a Templar-aligned Inquisitor, and same for Calpernia and a mage-aligned one. And if she's a party member or ally then I either want her to be in full redemption-seeking mode, prostrating herself before us, humbly looking for anything she might do to help prevent more conflict to make up for just a tiny bit of the damage she's done and accepting any judgement laid on her without excuses, or I want to be able to kick her out and/or kill her as a matter of public service. And if they do go there then I don't want to hear another fucking word about how evil or irredeemable Loghain was.
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Post by telanadas on Feb 9, 2021 13:34:11 GMT
If I recall the Samson looked vastly different in DA2...I honestly didn't recognise him either when I first played DAI. I did think his story needed to be fleshed out more, his character from DA2 to DAI felt way too different.
The maybe weird thing about Calpernia is that Corypheus saw something in her immediately. She's not only a powerful mage but it seems she really believed Corypheus would help her end slavery in Tevinter. Calpernia wasn't the only Venatori hoodwinked by Corypheus, various high profile mages in Tevinter Nights have also seemingly joined the Venatori under the guise of freeing the slaves (based on Tevinter Nights).
I've mentioned before, Corypheus' end-goals have seemed to uncannily align with Solas' even after Trespasser. And Solas was the person who started the original elven slave rebellion. So I do wonder if Corypheus' ultimate plan derives from his orb, and if there is actually a method to his madness. Most of the slaves in Tevinter are elves I'm guessing, and they are now targeted for recruitment by Solas as well as the Qunari and the Venatori are also using the excuse of freeing the slaves to recruit more members. Maybe these factions really need elven blood to further their own goals... Because we already know elven blood is powerful, it's been used to reveal hidden areas and artefacts and was used to enter the fade by Corypheus initially.
So maybe the Venatori are using the guise of freeing the slaves when in actual fact all of these different factions, the Venatori, Solas, the Qunari, need elven blood ('the Tevinter you forgot') to access the Black City itself.
If I was writing DA4 (lol) I would make Calpernia a Venatori insider, Magekiller basically has already set up her entrance into the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2021 13:36:49 GMT
Magekiller basically has already set up her entrance into the game. How so?
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Post by telanadas on Feb 9, 2021 13:42:32 GMT
Magekiller basically has already set up her entrance into the game. How so? Once she helps Marius and Tessa escape she now has a pretty major conflict of interest as a high ranking Venatori that could be interestingly resolved in DA4. We could be presented with a choice on whether or not to recruit her as an agent, with alternate consequences that impact the slaves in Tevinter.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2021 14:55:48 GMT
Once she helps Marius and Tessa escape she now has a pretty major conflict of interest as a high ranking Venatori that could be interestingly resolved in DA4. We could be presented with a choice on whether or not to recruit her as an agent, with alternate consequences that impact the slaves in Tevinter. Considering Marius and Tessa (or any of the comic characters) aren’t going to be in DA4 I doubt that will come into play. Especially since that was before DAI so clearly she didn’t have much of a conflict of interest. And please no “If you want to help slaves, let the mass murdering slaver join you”.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 9, 2021 15:40:05 GMT
And please no “If you want to help slaves, let the mass murdering slaver join you”. Every companion and hero is a mass murderer by our modern standards.
For me Calpernia is like General Oleg Petrovsky (and his real life example Erwin Rommel). A respected enemy with a morale compass unlike bastards like Erimond.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 9, 2021 15:45:54 GMT
Could you show your work on that? Samson gets points for his DA2 appearance, yeah, but I think the interesting parts of him were gone by DAI. Samson appears in DA2? Yes he does.
I disagree Samson is of course a minor character but unlike Merrill (only appear in Dalish Origins in DAO) or Isabela (just a trainer) all of his important scenes are in main quests.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2021 16:01:09 GMT
And please no “If you want to help slaves, let the mass murdering slaver join you”. Every companion and hero is a mass murderer by our modern standards.
For me Calpernia is like General Oleg Petrovsky (and his real life example Erwin Rommel). A respected enemy with a morale compass unlike bastards like Erimond.
No, not all. Merrill for example isn’t a murderer at all. And no, Calpernia is not a Rommel. That’s an insult to him. For example Rommel actually treated his prisoners well, while Calpernia works here to death with no care for their well-being.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 9, 2021 16:14:37 GMT
No, not all. Merrill for example isn’t a murderer at all. Of course she is. Merrill kills hunderts of people. They aren´t in most cases innocent but the amount of people and animals she kills made
her by our standards a mass murderer.
Where do you get this idea that Calpernia isn´t treating her prisoners well? Don´t say you mean with that the slaves from the Hissing Wastes?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Feb 9, 2021 16:18:32 GMT
And please no “If you want to help slaves, let the mass murdering slaver join you”. Every companion and hero is a mass murderer by our modern standards.
For me Calpernia is like General Oleg Petrovsky (and his real life example Erwin Rommel). A respected enemy with a morale compass unlike bastards like Erimond.
Every companion and hero is a mass murderer by our modern standards.
For me Calpernia is like General Oleg Petrovsky (and his real life example Erwin Rommel). A respected enemy with a morale compass unlike bastards like Erimond.
No, not all. Merrill for example isn’t a murderer at all. And no, Calpernia is not a Rommel. That’s an insult to him. For example Rommel actually treated his prisoners well, while Calpernia works here to death with no care for their well-being. I guess there's a bit of a difference between killing NPCs who shot first, like virtually all Kirkwall bandits, in combat situations and "story kills". Merrill might have some combat kills (her battle banter hints that while she gets annoyed by all the bandits, she would do without fighting them), while there are party member who have a certain infamous "story kill" bodycount as well, like Blackwall, Sten or Anders. Not sure where I'd put Rommel in that equation (his image in the angloshpere is supposedly better than in Germany), but Petrovsky... Ugh. Yeah, they tried to go for a Cerberus commander who actually does something that makes sense like occupying an Eeze mine and hyping him up as the Cerberus counterpart of Grand Admiral Thrawn or something, but they lost me again with the whole Adjutant project, so Petrovsky is just a slightly more refined Cerberus nutjob to me at the end of the day.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2021 16:19:30 GMT
No, not all. Merrill for example isn’t a murderer at all. Of course she is. Merrill kills hunderts of people. They aren´t in most cases innocent but the amount of people and animals she kills made
her by our standards a mass murderer.
Where do you get this idea that Calpernia isn´t treating her prisoners well? Don´t say you mean with that the slaves from the Hissing Wastes? Kill =/= Murder. Every person you mention attacks us first, so that is defense. Come on, even you know how huge of a difference that is. Why shouldn't I mention the Hissing Wastes? It's under her command, so first rule of leadership. But there's also other examples like her using the mages as cannon fodder in the Battle of Haven, or their slaves as such again in the battle of the forest.
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 9, 2021 16:21:24 GMT
Every companion and hero is a mass murderer by our modern standards.
For me Calpernia is like General Oleg Petrovsky (and his real life example Erwin Rommel). A respected enemy with a morale compass unlike bastards like Erimond.
No, not all. Merrill for example isn’t a murderer at all. And no, Calpernia is not a Rommel. That’s an insult to him. For example Rommel actually treated his prisoners well, while Calpernia works here to death with no care for their well-being. I guess there's a bit of a difference between killing NPCs who shot first, like virtually all Kirkwall bandits, in combat situations and "story kills". Merrill might have some combat kills (her battle banter hints that while she gets annoyed by all the bandits, she would do without fighting them), while there are party member who have a certain infamous "story kill" bodycount as well, like Blackwall, Sten or Anders. Not sure where I'd put Rommel in that equation (his image in the angloshpere is supposedly better than in Germany), but Petrovsky... Ugh. Yeah, they tried to go for a Cerberus commander who actually does something that makes sense like occupying an Eeze mine and hyping him up as the Cerberus counterpart of Grand Admiral Thrawn or something, but they lost me again with the whole Adjutant project, so Petrovsky is just a slightly more refined Cerberus nutjob to me at the end of the day.
Exactly. We certainly have many murderers throughout the games, but just as many aren't. And yeah, Omega ruined what the comics tried to do with Petrovsky. still preferred her over Aria who is no better, but still.
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