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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 19, 2021 17:11:54 GMT
Someone remind me who Calpernia is? Name rings a faint bell but I cant remember. Calperina is one of Corypheus’ lieutenants. You deal with her if you side with the Templars. Ah, I sided with mages. But she was a boss in the MP I remember now.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jan 20, 2021 19:42:34 GMT
i pretty.much think anyone can be entitled to a redemption arc. Also in context of most redemption arcs she's already had one. Does she? I don´t think that you can count her final scene (especially if you persuade her) as redemption arc.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 21, 2021 15:33:11 GMT
She’s a mass murderer who’s a tevinter loyalist. She walks away from Cory because she finds out she’s being used. Why is she loved so much and why would she be a companion She was willing to see the world destroyed. She’s not a good evil like certain character (Gollum, raistlin ,Arnold terminator). Mass Murderer - more than practically every other leader that we are willing to work with in DAI and several companions as well? (Think Celene, Gaspard, Briala, Cullen (he only objected to the arrest of Hawke not the annulment), Blackwall, Iron Bull, Cole, etc. Tevinter Loyalist - in much the same way as Dorian is except that she actually condemns slavery. (Bear in mind he approves if you let her go free) Walked away because she objected to the way he was using them all. "If he would misuse me, he would misuse them all" (May not have got the quote exact but you get the general idea.) For some reason she was under the impression that Cory would abolish slavery (not the only Venatori to think this according to Tevinter Nights). To be honest I don't think any of his minions thought Cory was going to destroy the world. After all, what would they rule over if that was the case? Short sighted and stupid maybe to think it would end in a good way (for them) but not intentionally promoting world destruction, except perhaps Lucius and the Promissors. I dare say many of those elves who supported Fen'Harel's rebellion against the Evanuris didn't expect it to end like it did, particularly as he always operated on a need to know basis, which essentially meant he told no one what he intended to do. So it was probably the same with Corypheus, although I seem to recall his intention was to become the god the world deserved in order to restore Tevinter to greatness. It was only after we destroyed his plans utterly that he decided "F**k it, if I can't have the world then neither can you." Bear in mind Corypheus didn't have foresight, so he probably wasn't aware that ripping apart the Veil would result in the destruction we see in the Dark Future.
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 23, 2021 21:34:10 GMT
I don't get this weird infatuation with Calpernia that some people appear to have.
We talk to her only very briefly in the game, and I don't recall any memorable line from that. She's basically a forgettable side character with barely any screen time. Why anyone would want the help of a former minion of Corypheus is beyond me - it's not like she has any useful qualifications. I don't think we're going to have the job description "former cult lieutenant" anywhere in our party.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 24, 2021 9:11:29 GMT
I don't get this weird infatuation with Calpernia that some people appear to have. Based off knowledge gained from the game that is understandable. If you take the CoJ course you do get hints that there is more to her than simply another Corypheus minion. However, you actually have to read her short story to really get a sense of her character and that unlike the rest she is not someone from the upper echelons who thought themselves entitled to more but a slave who knew what it was to have no power and whose welfare was entirely under the whim of her master. That is what made her interesting and would actually give her something in common with the new PC if the latest trailer is to be believed. WoT2 also confirms that her reason for joining with Corypheus was to fulfil her dreams of revitalising Tevinter by uplifting those currently enslaved to be true citizens of the Imperium because she believed in the worth of people unseen by the powerful. At the time, this made her an interesting character because it was a counterpoint to Dorian and Maevaris, who whilst opposing the Venatori and what they stood for, nevertheless saw nothing wrong with the institution of slavery. Of course this distinction has been watered down somewhat by the revelation in Tevinter Nights that Dorian has now freed all his slaves. What I find disappointing is that character development now seems to take place in media outside of the games rather than within them. If they did bring back Calpernia then I would hope they would not simply assume people would either remember her from DAI or have read all the associated books and comics but would actually take the trouble to explain and develop her character in game.
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 24, 2021 9:40:42 GMT
I don't get this weird infatuation with Calpernia that some people appear to have. Based off knowledge gained from the game that is understandable. If you take the CoJ course you do get hints that there is more to her than simply another Corypheus minion. However, you actually have to read her short story to really get a sense of her character and that unlike the rest she is not someone from the upper echelons who thought themselves entitled to more but a slave who knew what it was to have no power and whose welfare was entirely under the whim of her master. That is what made her interesting and would actually give her something in common with the new PC if the latest trailer is to be believed. WoT2 also confirms that her reason for joining with Corypheus was to fulfil her dreams of revitalising Tevinter by uplifting those currently enslaved to be true citizens of the Imperium because she believed in the worth of people unseen by the powerful. At the time, this made her an interesting character because it was a counterpoint to Dorian and Maevaris, who whilst opposing the Venatori and what they stood for, nevertheless saw nothing wrong with the institution of slavery. Of course this distinction has been watered down somewhat by the revelation in Tevinter Nights that Dorian has now freed all his slaves. What I find disappointing is that character development now seems to take place in media outside of the games rather than within them. If they did bring back Calpernia then I would hope they would not simply assume people would either remember her from DAI or have read all the associated books and comics but would actually take the trouble to explain and develop her character in game. I did play Champions of the Just, but I didn't read any of the books. I sort of understand your line of thought, but for me it's just the other way around. His attitude towards slavery was an aspect that made Dorian interesting, because it made him different from myself and the present day westerners I'm surrounded by every day. Someone who is more like me and the people I already know is a less interesting character for me to explore in a game. If Dorian changed his attitude and freed all his slaves, then I'm happy for those fictional people having their freedom, but Dorian just became a little less interesting to me because he became more like a present day person. Same with Calpernia, plus that I really don't find the slave background compelling. Unless our potential slave protagonist had a very specific background or duties, it makes it hard to explain why they can suddenly swing twohanders or throw fireballs. Unless the game makes us learn that slowly from scratch, that would actually be great.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 24, 2021 11:25:39 GMT
If Dorian changed his attitude and freed all his slaves, then I'm happy for those fictional people having their freedom, but Dorian just became a little less interesting to me because he became more like a present day person. For me it showed character growth. Dorian's attitude towards slavery was perfectly understandable given his background and upbringing. He admits it never even crossed his mind to question it before he came south. Then he also points out the hypocrisy of people who condemn his country for slavery and yet have such abject poverty and mistreatment of people in the slums and alienages of the south. However, in TN he says it was due to the influence of someone in the south that he changed his mind on the subject, at least where his own servants are concerned. (It is left open whether the person who influenced him was the Inquisitor, Solas (they have a discussion on the issue where Solas doesn't really give him much room for excuses) or someone else he encountered in the south, even possibly Calpernia). The opposition to slavery isn't just a modern one. It depends on the culture. So far as Thedas is concerned, Andraste's motivation was to free people from slavery as much as spread the religion of the Maker, something the Chantry is apt to forget, particularly the Imperial Chantry. The way I see it is that now we are heading to Tevinter we are going to encounter people who may well be like Dorian when he first came south and that will not automatically make them a bad person. However, my PCs will always object to it but because of in-world history of slavery and the abuses under that system, not because of anything in the real world. Unless our potential slave protagonist had a very specific background or duties, it makes it hard to explain why they can suddenly swing twohanders or throw fireballs. Actually it is very easy to understand because slaves in Tevinter are trained in a wide range of duties and professions. Slaves can be trained as personal soldiers or body guards (Marius and Fenris) or to serve in the army (Shartan) but they are not granted military ranks, so are basically canon fodder. Fenris said as far back as DA2 that mages could be slaves and Calpernia was just such an example, only trained enough to prevent her from being a risk to her master and living in constant fear of being given to the Circles to be experimented on. Others, like Myrion in Tevinter Nights, are elevated to Laetans class simply because a Soporati citizen sees the benefits to themselves to adopt the mage into their own family, thus giving the mage citizen status. That is essentially the difference between slaves and everyone else; they are not citizens and thus have no rights at all. If a generous master decides to free them, they become Liberati but still not citizens. This may allow them to join a Circle of Magi, if they can afford it, and be an apprentice. They can also own property. However, Liberati cannot serve in the military and have little power politically. We have also been told that the Tevinter Sicarri are largely from slave backgrounds, whose families are essentially held to ransom against their loyalty to the organisation. The agents of the Sicarri can be from any class. I still feel that a slave background would be the most appropriate for a Tevinter setting if you are meant to be powerless at the beginning as this doesn't mean you would have no training at all, just no status within Tevinter.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jan 24, 2021 11:44:48 GMT
I did play Champions of the Just, but I didn't read any of the books. The question is not if played Champions of the Just this doesn´t really matter for Calpernia. No you have to play the Leliana Quest Under Her Skin which absolute necessary to unterstand the Calpernia character. I agree that reading Calpernia stortstory won´t hurt and give a better unterstanding but i don´t view it as necessary. I believe that one of big DA 4 decisions is what happen to Tevinter and how will it change. And we have three options.
Nothing or not so much = The Traditionalists under Archon Radonis Moderate changes mainly stopping the corruption = Dorian Pavus, Maevaris Tilani and their Lucerni faction Radical reforms freeing all slaves and treat them as equal = Calpernia
Also don´t forget that the Inquisition is looking for unlikely help like the new hero which Solas doesn´t expect. And who would be a better candidate than a former (optional beaten) enemy?
Also for me personal its very interessing to contuine with a character because she isn´t evil nor good but has on the end a noble goal. To free all slaves and gave them equal rights. Also what happen to this broken former "villian" after the defeat in the Mythal temple?
Regardless what the player does she won´t be killed and very likely flee to Tevinter which is by the way DA 4 main setting. Also the most important reason of all. Bioware like her. "According to Patrick Weekes, Calpernia quickly became a favorite of the writers due to her intriguing story and personality." dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Calpernia
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jan 24, 2021 11:59:24 GMT
What I find disappointing is that character development now seems to take place in media outside of the games rather than within them. If they did bring back Calpernia then I would hope they would not simply assume people would either remember her from DAI or have read all the associated books and comics but would actually take the trouble to explain and develop her character in game. I won´t worry about this much. Of course Calpernia will get a prober introduction like
DA 2 Merrill, DA 2 Isabella, DAI Cassandra and DAI Cole before. Edit: You can also make the make the argument for DAA Oghren (not really to be honest), DA 2 Anders / Justice and maybe DAI Varric.
Also i believe that Bioware is well aware that most players have sided with the Mages and not with Templars. I mean the canon worldstate / (i know this doesn´t exist per se) in the Keep (which seems to equal to playing without any import) is that Samson was Corypheus lieutenant.
So yeah Bioware have to give Calpernia for all those players and don´t forget the new players a prober introduction. Like i said Calpernia really reminds of Merrill. You can make almost same argument with her. Merrill wasn´t unlike Cole in any other media before but she had only appeared in the Dalish Origin story. And how many players had played this?
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Post by helios969 on Jan 26, 2021 9:50:10 GMT
I think she'd make for an interesting companion...maybe even love interest...but is her inclusion a given? Maybe her role is more as NPC/quest-giver?
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 26, 2021 17:19:57 GMT
I think she'd make for an interesting companion...maybe even love interest...but is her inclusion a given? Maybe her role is more as NPC/quest-giver? We can only speculate at this point. Though if that is Calpernia in this concept art, she seems to be taking an active hand. But... it's still concept art, so who knows.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 29, 2021 20:34:24 GMT
I think she'd make for an interesting companion...maybe even love interest...but is her inclusion a given? Maybe her role is more as NPC/quest-giver? I'd call it probable. This is the type of character they like to bring back, and she fits into a fairly obvious party slot.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jan 29, 2021 21:09:46 GMT
I'd call it probable. This is the type of character they like to bring back, and she fits into a fairly obvious party slot. Also Bioware make sure that she can´t be be killed in any scenario in DAI which means that Calpernia isn´t a quantum character. Of course its still likely that Calpernia isn´t a companion & love interest but i would be shock if she isn´t a major character with more screentime than Hawkes DAI warden contact who was a quantum character (with the exception of replacement guy Stroud).
The most important part is that you mention. Bioware like to bring character back which they like and fits for their story. And Calpernia no surprise is a favourite within Bioware.
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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 30, 2021 9:56:37 GMT
I usually go with Champions of the Just, so I wouldn't mind seeing Calpernia again. I thought she was rather 'good' enemy. Unlike that Prat Samson. And my Inquisitors always let her go, since its clear she was lied to.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 30, 2021 12:02:54 GMT
I thought she was rather 'good' enemy. Unlike that Prat Samson. I wonder if they put the more interesting lieutenant on the CoJ side in order to encourage more people to take it. Calpernia's plot line was way more interesting than Samson. Madox was only vaguely interesting if you had played DA2 and so knew the connection with Samson but at the same time if you had played DA2 then it was puzzling why Corypheus would have recruited a washed out has been like Samson to be his joint second in command. Also, at least with Calpernia it made sense that he would be using a mage as his "vessel". Any filling out of Corypheus character also only occurs on the CoJ side. As a result, even though I am sympathetic to the mage cause, I found role playing reasons to go with the Templars as my canon run, plus it meant I got rid of Fiona who I thought a terrible leader of the mages. Even if Calpernia doesn't return as a companion, I do think we will see her again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 30, 2021 12:48:22 GMT
Even if Calpernia doesn't return as a companion, I do think we will see her again. Hopefully only as a target to put down.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jan 30, 2021 13:24:43 GMT
...but at the same time if you had played DA2 then it was puzzling why Corypheus would have recruited a washed out has been like Samson to be his joint second in command. Also, at least with Calpernia it made sense that he would be using a mage as his "vessel". Are you aware of this cut / unused codex entry?
The Samson Corypheus teamup isn´t just what DAI had created. Its already started in Legacy. My guess that the Ingame Explanation is that Samson had a great resistance against Lyrium and Red Lyrium and also wasn´t that bad as leader / general. To be honest i believe more the theory that Bioware found it funny that Samson from all of the people became Merediths successor.
He even wield Merediths former sword Certainty.
To bad what happened to Samson. I kinda liked him in DA2 but in DAI he became a much worst villian than Meredith in her prime.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 30, 2021 14:16:23 GMT
Are you aware of this cut / unused codex entry? I wasn't aware of this and wonder why they cut it. I suppose it may have had something to do with where the story went from there. I'm not sure quite when the Exalted March was cancelled but it is possible this entry would have tied in with that which would have involved Corypheus at an earlier stage in the timeline. So if EM was cancelled by the time Legacy came out, they cut this entry because for the Wardens still to be in ignorance of Corypheus on the loose after this would have been stupid. Also, Hawke thinking by any stretch of the imagination that they were responsible for Corypheus. Mind you I always thought the whole Grey Warden plot was ridiculous for the amount a stupidity and lack of logic they were displaying. Also, if Corypheus was giving off a widespread false calling (of an arch-demon) why didn't it trigger a blight?
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 30, 2021 14:21:39 GMT
Based on the tidbits discussed in the Twitter thread about the livestream where a dev talked about returning characters, I don’t expect her to return as a companion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 30, 2021 15:20:43 GMT
Also, if Corypheus was giving off a widespread false calling (of an arch-demon) why didn't it trigger a blight? Corypheus wasn’t. His ally The Nightmare was, targeting the dreams of the Grey Wardens.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 30, 2021 17:00:34 GMT
Corypheus wasn’t. His ally The Nightmare was, targeting the dreams of the Grey Wardens. No, the Nightmare Demon was merely amplifying it but Corypheus was actually giving off the false Calling. He was doing so when he was imprisoned in the Vimmarch Mountains which was why the place was swarming with darkspawn. I suppose it is possible that the Nightmare Demon was projecting directly into the minds of the Wardens but I thought it was simply a case of widening the range of it. It wasn't just in their dreams; they could hear it all the time, just like they do with the real Calling. I thought that was the whole point. When you first become a Warden you only have the bad dreams but as time goes on it starts affecting your waking mind as well and that is when you know it is time to go into the Deep Roads.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 30, 2021 17:04:30 GMT
Based on the tidbits discussed in the Twitter thread about the livestream where a dev talked about returning characters, I don’t expect her to return as a companion. Why, what did they say?
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 30, 2021 17:11:39 GMT
Based on the tidbits discussed in the Twitter thread about the livestream where a dev talked about returning characters, I don’t expect her to return as a companion. Why, what did they say? There was a bit about returning characters, and how characters that die/have different endings or fates might not be used again in an important role.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 30, 2021 17:28:33 GMT
There was a bit about returning characters, and how characters that die/have different endings or fates might not be used again in an important role. He was talking about "quantum" characters, but Calpernia isn't one of them. She lives regardless of your choices.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 30, 2021 18:18:21 GMT
There was a bit about returning characters, and how characters that die/have different endings or fates might not be used again in an important role. He was talking about "quantum" characters, but Calpernia isn't one of them. She lives regardless of your choices. Ah, I see. I remember incorrectly, as I picked the mages, and only played Champion of the Just to see the different plot.
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