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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 4, 2018 15:24:47 GMT
Wynne and her spirit of Restoration ability, Shale and Dog with their unique qualities, Anders in DA 2, Varric with Biannca. Etc. Where do you stand on the point of companions having unique capabilities that you, as the player, can't have access to with your in-game avatar?
Personally, I like the idea of companions having their own special qualities, above and beyond their appearance and personalities; makes the setting feel more nuanced and your companions more one-of-a-kind. Everyone having access to the exact same set of abilities, save for the Inquisitor and their mark powers, felt a bit too watered down to me. Like why can Vivian, Dorian, and Solas all potentially learn barrier, fireball, and fade step if they're all from widely different backgrounds and all, narratively, have unique areas of study and knowledge about their craft? Why does Cole, as a spirit, have access to the exact same set of abilities as Varric and Sera? Even the specializations we get feel less 'special' because they are exactly the same as what our party members have access to; such as Dorrian and Necromancy or Serra and Tempest.
Removing the restrictions (for the most part) for the player and companions might have made them all more interchangeable; which was the intended purpose I suppose; but it also made them more generic in a way. Sure there's the banter to be had, but outside of narrative preference, what's the real difference between one character compared to the other?
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Post by leadintea on Oct 4, 2018 16:19:56 GMT
Absolutely. I know there's one member in this forum who'll vehemently disagree with this topic, but IMO it only makes sense that party members would have their own unique traits and talents that they bring to the table since they're from different backgrounds (I presume). It's why I really want party members in DA4 to have unique specializations like in DA2 and why I disliked how DAI handled such matters.
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Post by fylimar on Oct 4, 2018 17:18:51 GMT
I agree, I want to see special specs and abilities for companions again. Something to recognise their unique story and background.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 4, 2018 17:43:08 GMT
I tend to go back & forth on this.
On principle I think it's a cool idea to have companions who have their own unique abilities. Especially those who are from more distant cultures.
But on the other hand I'm thinking, "Well if they they learned this, why can't I?" Or just have them teach me. Even more so if they have cool abilities that *I* really want. At the end of the day though... I'm fine with it either way.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 4, 2018 18:21:11 GMT
Yes I do. Its nice the dog can bite and claw while I can't, for obvious reasons. It's good that each companion can have their own spell or talent. It makes them unique in combat and for making conversation
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 4, 2018 19:05:12 GMT
I have no issue with it whatsoever. It makes them feel more "special" and gives me more reason to use them.
But on the other hand I'm thinking, "Well if they they learned this, why can't I?" Or just have them teach me. Even more so if they have cool abilities that *I* really want. And what if those unique abilities are the result of something that can't be duplicated, like Fenris' lyrium markings or Wynne being possessed by a spirit?
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 19:11:21 GMT
I love unique skill trees. Fenris's lyrium-derived abilities, Anders's Justice-derived abilities... even non-supernatural skill sets, like Isabela's swashbuckling duelist pirate tree that was born of her background and made sense for her character. Hawke and Merrill could both be blood mages, sure, but Merrill's background as a Keeper-in-training gave her access to Dalish magics that Hawke simply wouldn't have been trained in. I love that. DAI tries to glide over this - Bull has the Reaver spec, but insists that he's not a Reaver, that he just stumbled on something similar (with hints that it's qunari-related). Cassandra has the Templar spec despite being a Seeker and NOT being a lyrium addict and all in all she should have a totally different skillset (boiling the lyrium in her enemies' blood, anyone?). Honestly, they should've just been given their own unique skill trees that fit with their backgrounds rather than trying to shoehorn them into existing specs. Varric losing his unique storyteller/bard (in the classic sense) tree in favor of artificer is another example of this. edit: the only thing I dislike is that after DAO, Varric is the only person in the universe able to wield a crossbow. Wtf? I was a crossbow-wielding dwarf before it was cool!
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Post by melbella on Oct 4, 2018 19:13:23 GMT
Me too. I really liked the way it was done in DA2 since it made each person more unique. Even abilities that technically could be the same as what Hawke uses have a different name and description, which fit the character. One of the dumbest things in DAI was Cass telling us point blank that her Seeker abilities are different from Templar abilities. And then they gave her the Templar spec with no unique Seeker anything.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 4, 2018 19:20:28 GMT
I have no issue with it whatsoever. It gives me more reason to use them.
But on the other hand I'm thinking, "Well if they they learned this, why can't I?" Or just have them teach me. Even more so if they have cool abilities that *I* really want. And what if those unique abilities are the result of something that can't be duplicated, like Fenris' lyrium markings or Wynne being possessed by a spirit? That's a fair point, there's certainly an argument to be made for those who have unique circumstances. But for those specs which are just taught...
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 4, 2018 19:24:33 GMT
edit: the only thing I dislike is that after DAO, Varric is the only person in the universe able to wield a crossbow. Wtf? I was a crossbow-wielding dwarf before it was cool! The darkspawn had crossbows in DA2. They seem to be back to bows in DAI.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 19:32:09 GMT
edit: the only thing I dislike is that after DAO, Varric is the only person in the universe able to wield a crossbow. Wtf? I was a crossbow-wielding dwarf before it was cool! The darkspawn had crossbows in DA2. They seem to be back to bows in DAI. But they didn't share with meeeee. 😭
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 4, 2018 19:35:24 GMT
The darkspawn had crossbows in DA2. They seem to be back to bows in DAI. But they didn't share with meeeee. 😭 Sharing really isn't a darkspawn virtue. Unless it's the Blight. They love to share that.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 19:37:27 GMT
But they didn't share with meeeee. 😭 Sharing really isn't a darkspawn virtue. Unless it's the Blight, in which case they love to share.And we bunch of ungrateful bastards went ahead and slew their archdemon! The nerve!
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 19:42:11 GMT
Like why can Vivian, Dorian, and Solas all potentially learn barrier, fireball, and fade step if they're all from widely different backgrounds and all, narratively, have unique areas of study and knowledge about their craft? While I agree with the idea, these particular spells are not the best examples. Or, I suppose it depends on your views of mages and their training. A human mage that was educated in the Circle would have the same background in education as Dorian and Vivienne: formal training in magic that is based around certain philosophies. I doubt the basic training Dorian received in Tevinter is very much different from that in the South, despite the different attitude toward magic in general. I think the DA2 method was the best compromise. There were basic skills that everyone had access to, and then specialized skills that were unique to the follower. Fenris should know how to sunder and cleave, just as Carver does, but has his own abilities derived from the markings. I expect a human Circle-trained mage, a Tevitner altus mage, a Dalish mage, a qunari mage (Qunari or Tal'Vashoth), and an Avvar mage to all be able to cast a fireball. But there should be certain disciplines or skills that each of those have from their unique cultures and circumstances. Similarly, I would have liked to see this in DAO, with only Morrigan having the ability to shapeshift, Alistair his templar abilities, Wynne with her spirit tree, Leliana as bard, and so on. On the occasion that I played a rift mage in DAI, I was disappointed that Solas had the exact same spells. The Breach and the Anchor are unique things that felt lesser because someone else had them. That spec more than the others suffered from that feeling, whereas I think it's possible to learn necromancy or the knight enchanter skills.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 19:43:57 GMT
Me too. I really liked the way it was done in DA2 since it made each person more unique. Even abilities that technically could be the same as what Hawke uses have a different name and description, which fit the character. One of the dumbest things in DAI was Cass telling us point blank that her Seeker abilities are different from Templar abilities. And then they gave her the Templar spec with no unique Seeker anything. Yes, this was especially glaring. Even if they kept the exact same stats and ability usage but changed some names and icons, it would have been more palatable.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Oct 4, 2018 20:58:36 GMT
FWIW, for purely gameplay reasons I personally would prefer all characters to have completely unique ability sets... BUT this is usually a scope/budget concern which is why you're normally more likely to see overlap than not. As for the in game explanation for why one person can do something another can't... well I won't touch that because that's not my area of expertise
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 4, 2018 21:44:03 GMT
I enjoy the fact that I'm not the greatest thing since toast(so to speak) think about it? in real life i'm a aircraft mechanic that has worked on military aircraft before I retired so in my circle of friends one is a bartender another a lawyer etc. and so on, I expect in a game that would also hold true we are all different.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Oct 4, 2018 22:22:23 GMT
Definitely. I think it makes things more interesting when companions have their own unique abilities - I found it disappointing that Cassandra's abilities were exactly the same as the Templar skills the Inquisitor could learn even though she's a Seeker of Truth and not a Templar. In DA2 the companion specialisations were generally less powerful than Hawke's, but they were fun and Wynne's special ability in Origins was really cool.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 4, 2018 22:52:01 GMT
Definitely. I think it makes things more interesting when companions have their own unique abilities - I found it disappointing that Cassandra's abilities were exactly the same as the Templar skills the Inquisitor could learn even though she's a Seeker of Truth and not a Templar. In DA2 the companion specialisations were generally less powerful than Hawke's, but they were fun and Wynne's special ability in Origins was really cool. It just because Hawke was the protagonist... but I don't doubt, Anders was much stronger than Hawke, especially non-mage Hawke. Just like Bethany's stronger as a warrior or rogue Hawke. (It's clear, the mercenary leader speak about Bethany's abilities worthy.)
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 23:08:24 GMT
Definitely. I think it makes things more interesting when companions have their own unique abilities - I found it disappointing that Cassandra's abilities were exactly the same as the Templar skills the Inquisitor could learn even though she's a Seeker of Truth and not a Templar. In DA2 the companion specialisations were generally less powerful than Hawke's, but they were fun and Wynne's special ability in Origins was really cool. It just because Hawke was the protagonist... but I don't doubt, Anders was much stronger than Hawke, especially non-mage Hawke. Just like Bethany's stronger as a warrior or rogue Hawke. (It's clear, the mercenary leader speak about Bethany's abilities worthy.) I dunno, there was that bit of scrapped dialogue where Varric described mage Hawke as "an archmage without peer... a god among mortal men." I never got the impression that Anders was stronger than Hawke. Just... more possessed. And of course that all depends on how you define strength and power. I wouldn't bet against Anders in a healing contest, for example.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 4, 2018 23:14:08 GMT
It just because Hawke was the protagonist... but I don't doubt, Anders was much stronger than Hawke, especially non-mage Hawke. Just like Bethany's stronger as a warrior or rogue Hawke. (It's clear, the mercenary leader speak about Bethany's abilities worthy.) I dunno, there was that bit of scrapped dialogue where Varric described mage Hawke as "an archmage without peer... a god among mortal men." I never got the impression that Anders was stronger than Hawke. Just... more possessed. And of course that all depends on how you define strength and power. I wouldn't bet against Anders in a healing contest, for example. It would be disappointing: means the mages/"abominations" aren't dangerous (at least no more than everyone else), and Fenris got his mark just because they glow nicely in the dark.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 23:23:32 GMT
I dunno, there was that bit of scrapped dialogue where Varric described mage Hawke as "an archmage without peer... a god among mortal men." I never got the impression that Anders was stronger than Hawke. Just... more possessed. And of course that all depends on how you define strength and power. I wouldn't bet against Anders in a healing contest, for example. It would be disappointing: means the mages/"abominations" aren't dangerous (at least no more than everyone else), and Fenris got his mark just because they glow nicely in the dark. Not talking about Fenris - he's like a Berserker/Templar hybrid who's designed to rip people apart, very dangerous, no doubt he's a threat. I figure abominations are dangerous not just because they have that extra boost of power, but because they've got a demon in their head influencing or outright controlling what they do. But it's also what makes them weaker mages, because if they were really strong on their own merit they wouldn't have had to turn to demons for help in the first place. (That's not how Anders came to share headspace with Justice, but I mean abominations in general.)
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Post by Catilina on Oct 4, 2018 23:31:19 GMT
It would be disappointing: means the mages/"abominations" aren't dangerous (at least no more than everyone else), and Fenris got his mark just because they glow nicely in the dark. Not talking about Fenris - he's like a Berserker/Templar hybrid who's designed to rip people apart, very dangerous, no doubt he's a threat. I figure abominations are dangerous not just because they have that extra boost of power, but because they've got a demon in their head influencing or outright controlling what they do. But it's also what makes them weaker mages, because if they were really strong on their own merit they wouldn't have had to turn to demons for help in the first place. (That's not how Anders came to share headspace with Justice, but I mean abominations in general.) Fenris' stronger than a simple warrior, Anders is stronger like a simple mage (Justice can protect him – as Faith can protect Wynne Wynne also much stronger than another mages), and the mages are stronger than a simple warrior/rogue. (I didn't speak about the willpower – only the pure power.)
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 23:37:22 GMT
I don't doubt that Anders is more powerful than your average mage, I just don't think he's stronger than Hawke.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 4, 2018 23:44:49 GMT
I don't doubt that Anders is more powerful than your average mage, I just don't think he's stronger than Hawke. Yes, I see: Hawke has the Power of Varric's Words! And Hawke's special, of course.
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