Beerfish
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 18, 2018 23:19:55 GMT
I always though this was epic stupidity in their part when i played on the xbox and now on the pc still think it. I can only assume one of the brainiacs felt that they would sell more stuff if they did this. Some of their early design decisions seemed mean to drive people away from the game.
The fact that on solo play they always have an uber tough wandering monster on the 1st level and the enemies are always twice as aggressive does nothing but anger the player (in this case being me.)
Start a game, search for a lobby no lobby so they automatically make YOU host. So, I am forced to be a host I will start a match and hope people join. But because they go out of their way to make the 1st level idiotically tough you fail and it all starts over again.
Now obviously once you hit that sweet threshold of promotions this is no longer an issue.
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Post by teethalmighty on Oct 19, 2018 1:17:31 GMT
I always though this was epic stupidity in their part when i played on the xbox and now on the pc still think it. I can only assume one of the brainiacs felt that they would sell more stuff if they did this. Some of their early design decisions seemed mean to drive people away from the game.
The fact that on solo play they always have an uber tough wandering monster on the 1st level and the enemies are always twice as aggressive does nothing but anger the player (in this case being me.)
Start a game, search for a lobby no lobby so they automatically make YOU host. So, I am forced to be a host I will start a match and hope people join. But because they go out of their way to make the 1st level idiotically tough you fail and it all starts over again.
Now obviously once you hit that sweet threshold of promotions this is no longer an issue.
Ah, I miss those days... well, getting murdered along with my friends, that is...
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Post by HunterKipling on Oct 19, 2018 3:14:12 GMT
I always though this was epic stupidity in their part when i played on the xbox and now on the pc still think it. I can only assume one of the brainiacs felt that they would sell more stuff if they did this. Some of their early design decisions seemed mean to drive people away from the game.
The fact that on solo play they always have an uber tough wandering monster on the 1st level and the enemies are always twice as aggressive does nothing but anger the player (in this case being me.)
Start a game, search for a lobby no lobby so they automatically make YOU host. So, I am forced to be a host I will start a match and hope people join. But because they go out of their way to make the 1st level idiotically tough you fail and it all starts over again.
Now obviously once you hit that sweet threshold of promotions this is no longer an issue.
I always though this was epic stupidity in their part when i played on the xbox and now on the pc still think it. I can only assume one of the brainiacs felt that they would sell more stuff if they did this. Some of their early design decisions seemed mean to drive people away from the game.
The fact that on solo play they always have an uber tough wandering monster on the 1st level and the enemies are always twice as aggressive does nothing but anger the player (in this case being me.)
Start a game, search for a lobby no lobby so they automatically make YOU host. So, I am forced to be a host I will start a match and hope people join. But because they go out of their way to make the 1st level idiotically tough you fail and it all starts over again.
Now obviously once you hit that sweet threshold of promotions this is no longer an issue.
Ah, I miss those days... well, getting murdered along with my friends, that is... I think it's fair to say how frustrating it was starting the player out with zero attributes. I agree. I really didn't mind wiping out, however. Because it's a humbling experience
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Post by Silversmurf on Oct 19, 2018 7:00:15 GMT
Encourages team play.
Even at my level, you still promote faster when generating exp as a team. I find that incredibly well thought out.
That said, yes it was really hard to survive in the early days getting impaled in a wall....
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 19, 2018 7:15:59 GMT
There is obviously a difference between encouraging team play - by increasing XP, sharing rewards, etc - and actively punishing solo play.
Only one of the two is good game design, the other not so much.
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Post by Finvola on Oct 19, 2018 7:48:17 GMT
When I started fresh a week ago (well I had done one or two Proving Grounds some time before) poor Archer died so many times. I played private solo games just to familiarize myself and build up. He couldn't even make it past the entrance area of zone 1. I knew he would suicide quickly but I figured if I kept at it, those XP would stack up eventually. Then I did some more Proving Grounds tutorials just to make some money and easy XP. Got to the stage where I had to turn the sound off because I was so sick of hearing the tutorial narration. I didn't think I'd ever find anybody to play with or I'd ever get past that stage, but a week on I'm slowly working my way up. It does get easier. Some nights I have a hard time finding people to learn and play with, but not always.
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Post by Arkhne on Oct 19, 2018 9:20:14 GMT
I have always considered DAIMP to be poorly scaled, with the difficulty starting too high for newbies. Many people willd, and have, been driven away from this difficulty cliff when starting. Yes, this is not so bad with knowledge and prior experience, but the average newb (not an alt account) does not have this.
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Post by dafyddr on Oct 19, 2018 11:58:03 GMT
I agree with a lot of this - my special gripe is origin's obsession with throwing you into an empty lobby. Oh, and Qunari wave 2 with about 50,000 shield guys trying to do terrible things to whatever character I brought. however I often will solo if I know I only have time for a 1 or 2 games (and especially if I find no takers in my first couple of searches). So, to blatantly hijack this thread (sorry beervampirepiranha) does anyone have solo speedrun tips for grinding promotions? My best finds so far (bearing in mind that I'm very modest in my promotions, so this is threatening) pact belt AW Izzy - FC Virtuoso FC To give some indication of how painful this can be, my modest aim is to do better than 1000xp per minute
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Post by Gilli on Oct 19, 2018 13:46:38 GMT
*reads comments* Oh god, this reminds me of my first time playing DAIMP. I made a private lobby, just to "try it out", because I was scared of running into other players while I still had no MP experience. (blame my social anxiety for that ) So I go into Elven Ruins, walk around the first corner and... looking at the skill bar that's actually my 2nd try, doesn't matter, same result. Then, I posted in the old BSN Last DAMP PUG thread about what had happened and in less then 5mins I got a friend request from Gya and then he, kaileena_sands and Irthir dragged my poor weak butt through Routine. And later when we had around like 30 Stats in everything, we tried Nightmare together. The Fade was very pretty. *gets nostalgia tears* I met so many awesome people through DAIMP.
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Post by HunterKipling on Oct 19, 2018 14:23:16 GMT
*reads comments* Oh god, this reminds me of my first time playing DAIMP. I made a private lobby, just to "try it out", because I was scared of running into other players while I still had no MP experience. (blame my social anxiety for that ) So I go into Elven Ruins, walk around the first corner and... looking at the skill bar that's actually my 2nd try, doesn't matter, same result. Then, I posted in the old BSN Last DAMP PUG thread about what had happened and in less then 5mins I got a friend request from Gya and then he, kaileena_sands and Irthir dragged my poor weak butt through Routine. And later when we had around like 30 Stats in everything, we tried Nightmare together. The Fade was very pretty. *gets nostalgia tears* I met so many awesome people through DAIMP. Here! Here! Well Said (holds back sniffs)
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 19, 2018 14:38:38 GMT
Encourages team play. Even at my level, you still promote faster when generating exp as a team. I find that incredibly well thought out. That said, yes it was really hard to survive in the early days getting impaled in a wall.... Well we all want to play with a team but if no one joins your lobby or you search and no game comes up you are fubared, to top it off, after a few moments of searching it auto pops you as host of a game to encourage you to start a game. So fine, you start a game solo as a low level low promotion player and they stick a boss wandering animal in the 1st room and set the aggression on all other enemies to max.
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Post by dafyddr on Oct 19, 2018 15:01:13 GMT
*reads comments* Oh god, this reminds me of my first time playing DAIMP. I made a private lobby, just to "try it out", because I was scared of running into other players while I still had no MP experience. (blame my social anxiety for that ) So I go into Elven Ruins, walk around the first corner and... looking at the skill bar that's actually my 2nd try, doesn't matter, same result. Then, I posted in the old BSN Last DAMP PUG thread about what had happened and in less then 5mins I got a friend request from Gya and then he, kaileena_sands and Irthir dragged my poor weak butt through Routine. And later when we had around like 30 Stats in everything, we tried Nightmare together. The Fade was very pretty. *gets nostalgia tears* I met so many awesome people through DAIMP. I did this too . My level 1 inquisition bow archer managed to bring a venatori (iirc) down to half health after about five frantic minutes and both health potions. Then I died.
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Post by Finvola on Oct 19, 2018 16:40:53 GMT
I can totally relate, I have social anxiety too and the thought of playing with strangers who have very probably been playing for years made me feel nervous about trying a PUG and I couldn't round up any friends that I knew used to DAIMP. I thought I was doomed to a MP life of solitude and I might as well go back to SP, but then things changed. This really is a great community! I do still start solo runs in the hopes that people will join me. .I figured I couldn't go wrong with a Routine High Dragon. I was going to solo it with my Silent Sister because I was fairly certain I could win on solo with her, but if people joined along the way, that would be wonderful, and they did.
I still have trouble inviting people to join my lobbies and I'm still a bit nervous about joining other people's games with the fear that I might not be good enough or dead weight as a team member.
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Post by SassaMFG on Oct 19, 2018 17:08:34 GMT
I'm still a bit nervous about joining other people's games with the fear that I might not be good enough or dead weight as a team member. Veterans won't care trust me. I will rather carry newbies ( soloing while they are in the fade) than do deliberate solo run. Routine is doable with four newbies team. Anyone who at lest played main story in singleplayer and payed attention to what each skill and/or passive does shouldn't have problems. It's not easy, but if everyone is doing what they should it won't be that hard.
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Post by HunterKipling on Oct 19, 2018 17:28:36 GMT
I'm still a bit nervous about joining other people's games with the fear that I might not be good enough or dead weight as a team member. Veterans won't care trust me. I will rather carry newbies ( soloing while they are in the fade) than do deliberate solo run. Routine is doable with four newbies team. Anyone who at lest played main story in singleplayer and payed attention to what each skill and/or passie does shouldn't have problems. It's not easy, but if everyone is doing what they should it won't be that hard. Could not have said it better, Sassa Might I add, sometimes my lobbies get glitchy and I apologize ahead of time
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Post by Silversmurf on Oct 19, 2018 23:48:53 GMT
There is obviously a difference between encouraging team play - by increasing XP, sharing rewards, etc - and actively punishing solo play. Only one of the two is good game design, the other not so much. Its not a solo game.
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Post by HunterKipling on Oct 20, 2018 7:19:37 GMT
There is obviously a difference between encouraging team play - by increasing XP, sharing rewards, etc - and actively punishing solo play. Only one of the two is good game design, the other not so much. Its not a solo game. But kudos to those who (through no fault of their own) find themselves soloing, It's a slogfest
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 20, 2018 7:24:37 GMT
There is obviously a difference between encouraging team play - by increasing XP, sharing rewards, etc - and actively punishing solo play. Only one of the two is good game design, the other not so much. Its not a solo game. It's not only not a solo game, it's a solo-hostile game because an active effort was made to make solo play unappealing. Why intentionally sabotage a way to play the game that many players may like? Maybe they just want to be able to go at their own pace, to not deal with other people for a bit, or just because they have a hard time finding a group? I don't get it. How is a game made better by enforcing group play through punishment instead of encouraging it through positive incentives? Many games that were clearly designed as co op games still support the solo player by automatically adjusting enemy spawns to the number of players or providing bot companions to fill empty player slots. DAMP does the exact opposite. Time and resources were spent to punish solo players. It boggles the mind.
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Post by Arkhne on Oct 20, 2018 11:22:04 GMT
I'm still a bit nervous about joining other people's games with the fear that I might not be good enough or dead weight as a team member. Veterans won't care trust me. I will rather carry newbies ( soloing while they are in the fade) than do deliberate solo run. Routine is doable with four newbies team. Anyone who at lest played main story in singleplayer and payed attention to what each skill and/or passive does shouldn't have problems. It's not easy, but if everyone is doing what they should it won't be that hard. Well, I got bored early with both Origins' and Inquisition's SP, but I did manage to finish DA2 a few times, can't remember if I finished on Nightmare, but I usually played on that. I played 2-3 aborted solos before I actually joined a random lobby. For some reason, I totally missed the "Proving Grounds" option, before my attempts, I went into the skill trees, saw what I did have (and what their upgrades would be to get an idea of the sort of situation it's designed for), and tried to form some idea of how I would progress so that I wouldn't hold lobbies up (This is a big thing, I like to spend my points between matches, but I don't want to have to read what they do and slow people down). So, I didn't have the SP experience, but I DID pay attention to the skills, so I had a bit of any idea what stuff did, and tried to fill in the blanks with logic and reasoning. Routine was tough for quite a while, as it was rare for there to be 4 players at once (Maybe PS3 didn't have much of a playerbase at the time?), but with a few levels, and a bit of practice, it all came together before even my first promotion. I did my first solo with the Keeper on Routine (no lobby found, nobody joined) with 0 Promotions and a level 7(?)ish staff. It was long, and slow, but taught me a lot, and I never feared Routine, even solo, after that, and it gave me the confidence to try Threatening with my Avvar. TL;DR I think the most important part is head-stuffs. Re-starting on PC wasn't even as rough as I expected, because eventhough stuff like those giant guys exist, I knew how to handle to approach things. Knowledge of the game isn't important (although it definitely helps), the most important thing is trying to figure out WHY stuff happens, particularly "Why did I die/fail?". Early on, the answer turned out to be things like "I was careless" or "I facetanked the Archer Line with my Mage/Rogue." Later on it became "I didn't have an answer for <x> enemy/commander in my build" (I'm looking at you, Shield wearing enemies).
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Post by SassaMFG on Oct 20, 2018 12:34:28 GMT
You didn't played singleplayer, but you read the descriptions ant that helped you. For some skills description isn't enough, you have to see and feel how they work, but that is more important for Perilous and above, My experience was: - when I started playing, my builds were more survival oriented - when I reached 50+ in stats, my builds were more damage oriented - then I reached stats when build doesn't matter on any difficulty and I tried new, unusual builds
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Post by teethalmighty on Oct 20, 2018 15:04:28 GMT
I'm still a bit nervous about joining other people's games with the fear that I might not be good enough or dead weight as a team member. I feel pretty comfortable in saying that there are almost no veterans who would feel this way. And other newbies want teammates as much as you! If you find yourself with a squishy character or a level that feels too intense, just play conservatively e.g., stay out of line of sight, stick close to the group/barrier casters (always a good strategy), and if you are a barrier caster, ALWAYS make sure you barrier yourself in addition to as many teammates as you can get close to. I love seeing new players challenging themselves. If you die, you die. We HAVE ALL BEEN THERE lol.
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Post by Silversmurf on Oct 20, 2018 15:07:51 GMT
It's not only not a solo game, it's a solo-hostile game because an active effort was made to make solo play unappealing. Why intentionally sabotage a way to play the game that many players may like? Maybe they just want to be able to go at their own pace, to not deal with other people for a bit, or just because they have a hard time finding a group? I don't get it. How is a game made better by enforcing group play through punishment instead of encouraging it through positive incentives? Many games that were clearly designed as co op games still support the solo player by automatically adjusting enemy spawns to the number of players or providing bot companions to fill empty player slots. DAMP does the exact opposite. Time and resources were spent to punish solo players. It boggles the mind. I don't mean to sound argumentative but you can't tell me routine is difficult with a defensive build. I suspect you may be "soloing" on a diffculty slightly higher than you can handle. Many players have "suffered" through the early levels by playing many MANY games of routine and then threatening. Perilous ate me alive for a long time. The lower difficulties weren't hard but gave me the time to learn the game. Time and patience is required. As you get stronger, soloing isn't a problem at all. Only thing you get "punished" on at that point is lower exp for soloing. It doesn't help that the game is now 4 years old as now players are hard to find. There are many faults with this game that have been well documented. I do not believe solo play is one of those faults.
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N7 Beagle
Enemies Everywhere!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SassaMFG on Oct 20, 2018 15:46:51 GMT
I remember the time when Nightmare solo was great achievement, Heartbreaker solo was near impossible.
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Finvola
N3
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Post by Finvola on Oct 20, 2018 16:11:21 GMT
If you find yourself with a squishy character or a level that feels too intense, just play conservatively e.g., stay out of line of sight, stick close to the group/barrier casters (always a good strategy), and if you are a barrier caster, ALWAYS make sure you barrier yourself in addition to as many teammates as you can get close to. I love seeing new players challenging themselves. If you die, you die. We HAVE ALL BEEN THERE lol.
I **think** that it what happened to me last night. I've seen a few people around who I get the impression that they are kind of where I'm at skill wise and we've played in different matches over the past few days. We ended up in a few Threatening matches last night and the leader, seeing how we played (sometimes good, sometimes not so good), decided to take us for a couple Perilous spins anyway. One was Ferelden Castle, haha. I kind of think they wanted to do a solo run without it being solo.
I do have the advantage of SP, but I don't think it really helped as much as I thought it would back in the beginning when I started MP. I play SP on Hard/ Nightmare and sometimes put the trials on. Seeing the skill trees being a mix and match of ones in SP left me kind of speccing my first characters wrong. I was pretty frustrated to see there was no stealth option for archer because that is how I play in SP. I stealth or at least take a leaping shot into stealth and I found it quite hard to adjust to that.
MP is actually helping me learn new things and get out of my safety zone. I've said loads of times how much I dislike playing warriors, but if that's what is needed, that's what I'll be. I was never particularly good at 2H weapons in any DA game but that is what I prefer doing if I must be a warrior.
Same goes for Necromancer, I think I only ever chose that specialization once in SP and I had no idea I could self revive myself and I'm trying to learn how to do that. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I screw up. As in try to have something spirit marked before I die or hope that I kill something in time before I die-die. I do have a Heal On Kill grip on the staff, at any rate. But man is that woman a damage dealing machine. I couldn't believe the massive kill streak I got with her yesterday, now that she's skilled up a bit.
Same goes for Viritoso, I love him so much but I know that he can be a nuisance if not played properly. However, I feel that I **must** play some matches with a party so I can learn how to buff/benefit them. I'm getting the hang of it, I know to stay close, play songs to give them a barrier, give them an attack bonus, just got the one that heals the party. So I have to play **some** matches on routine so I can learn how to work him correctly. That's not the kind of thing I can do with a solo run since his skills are mainly to help the team.
After I get the hang of him, got to learn how to work Saarebas right because that's another one that I need to learn the pattern/sequence for. I'm quite a cautious player and I don't give up easily. I might get frustrated but if something doesn't work or I find myself out of my depth, I take a break and try something different.
Even Keeper, I've never really enjoyed playing a mage that protects/defends in any DA game but I'm learning that too. Well Zither's kind of the same isn't he? Just flashier!
I'm relieved to know that many veterans wouldn't mind somebody like myself in their lineup because I don't want to be a burden, but if veterans say they are fine to have me tag along, I'd be more than happy to. I just want to play. If I wanted to play solo, I'd just go back to single player. I am on MP because I want to play with other people.
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SassaMFG
N5
N7 Beagle
Enemies Everywhere!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: SassaMFG
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Posts: 2,764 Likes: 7,261
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Post by SassaMFG on Oct 20, 2018 16:47:18 GMT
I'm relieved to know that many veterans wouldn't mind somebody like myself in their lineup because I don't want to be a burden, but if veterans say they are fine to have me tag along, I'd be more than happy to. I just want to play. Just be prepared to spend lots of time in the Fade when we drag you to Nightmare. And if sometimes we don't revive you when you are down, don't think we are mean, we just don't pay attention to teammates anymore because we all can handle ourselves.
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