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Post by oyabun on Oct 12, 2016 15:53:30 GMT
No.
Coloring outside the lines is a mistake. Giving an orb to an Ancient Darkspawn Magister is a fuck up. I'm not disputing that fact. Solas made a huge error. Ironically, by not dying when he was supposed to, Corypheus unwittingly saved modern Thedas from Solas. Corypheus did not saved Thedas. If the Inquisitor did not took the Orb from him during the ritual Solas plan wouldn't have been disrupted,because it was the Inquisitor who ruined his plan not Corypheus. The explosion would have most likely swept away the Orb from that place out of Corypheus reach(with an anchor not yet released) then Solas would have claimed it for himself regardless of the Corypheus immortality. By this standard(which is very low) each person that interacted in a meaningful way in the DAI plot saved Thedas..... Is a matter of definition here,i think only the Inquisitor preserved Thedas as it is in the Dragon age not any other character.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 12, 2016 16:47:16 GMT
If Cory wanted the anchor all along why he did not corrupted the Inq when he grabbed them in your heart shall burn so that he could have body jumped in their body? 1) The corruption doesn't work like that. A darkspawn can't just will someone into becoming a ghoul. 2) It's not clear if Corypheus can jump to any corrupted body or if he specifically needs Wardens. 3) Even if he could jump into a non-Warden, doing so may have destroyed the Anchor. 1) COrypheus can infect with his own taint somene else he could have done that when he grabbed the Inquisitor then body jumped into the Inquisitor. 2)Coryphues can body jump into everyone,being able to survive in a warden host means that he is able to do that even into more suitable hosts like darkpsawns which have an even weaker will. 3)Why?The anchor is tied to the body, the anchor should remain there so long that the body isn't dead and Corypheus ability just replace one mind with his own (what he did to Janeka and Larius)
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 12, 2016 17:44:08 GMT
Uh. So?
Be a nice change to fight a mountain sized spider.
This ain't God of War. If you watch the cutscene closely, you'll notice that Stroud/Loghain/Hawke/Alistair goes down in about 10 seconds. The only ridiculous part about that cutscene is Mage Hawke attacking Nightmare with their staff. Now THAT is senseless. Don't forget that rogue Hawke will break out a big sword. Even if I wanted Hawke to die in this scene (NEVER), that detail alone would assure that I never will.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 12, 2016 18:00:48 GMT
1) The corruption doesn't work like that. A darkspawn can't just will someone into becoming a ghoul. 2) It's not clear if Corypheus can jump to any corrupted body or if he specifically needs Wardens. 3) Even if he could jump into a non-Warden, doing so may have destroyed the Anchor. 1) COrypheus can infect with his own taint somene else he could have done that when he grabbed the Inquisitor then body jumped into the Inquisitor. 2)Coryphues can body jump into everyone,being able to survive in a warden host means that he is able to do that even into more suitable hosts like darkpsawns which have an even weaker will. 3)Why?The anchor is tied to the body, the anchor should remain there so long that the body isn't dead and Corypheus ability just replace one mind with his own (what he did to Janeka and Larius) 1) Darkspawn corruption isn't 100 per cent transmitable. Some people get into one fight with a darkspawn and BAM! ghoulification. Others spend years in the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn and never become infected. 2) Have you ever seen Corypheus jump into someone who WASN'T a Grey Warden? 3) It seems Corypheus alters the Grey Warden he jumps into. In some cases, it's a total transformation. But even in the case of Larius, he became suddenly capable of using magic, as confirmed by Bianca.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 12, 2016 19:44:22 GMT
1) Darkspawn corruption isn't 100 per cent transmitable. Some people get into one fight with a darkspawn and BAM! ghoulification. Others spend years in the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn and never become infected. Not to mention most people who do get infected with the taint die long before ghoulification sets in.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 12, 2016 20:44:07 GMT
The mechanics of how someone becomes tainted isn't entirely clear, but I've long speculated that it has something to do with willpower. The Blight isn't just a disease; it's corruption of the soul as well as the body. Those who are in a weakened state or are emotionally fragile are more susceptible to the corruption to those who are strong-willed.
Certainly, contact with darkspawn blood is a factor, but if that were all it took, the darkspawn could coat their blades with their own blood and they'd be unstoppable. And yet, Renn from The Descent has spent a decade in the Deep Roads slaying darkspawn and he's avoided becoming a ghoul.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 12, 2016 22:20:39 GMT
1) COrypheus can infect with his own taint somene else he could have done that when he grabbed the Inquisitor then body jumped into the Inquisitor. 2)Coryphues can body jump into everyone,being able to survive in a warden host means that he is able to do that even into more suitable hosts like darkpsawns which have an even weaker will. 3)Why?The anchor is tied to the body, the anchor should remain there so long that the body isn't dead and Corypheus ability just replace one mind with his own (what he did to Janeka and Larius) 1) Darkspawn corruption isn't 100 per cent transmitable. Some people get into one fight with a darkspawn and BAM! ghoulification. Others spend years in the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn and never become infected. 2) Have you ever seen Corypheus jump into someone who WASN'T a Grey Warden? 3) It seems Corypheus alters the Grey Warden he jumps into. In some cases, it's a total transformation. But even in the case of Larius, he became suddenly capable of using magic, as confirmed by Bianca. 1) Corypheus had the chance to infect the Inquisitor directly during the quest In your heart shall burn by simply causing a wound to the Inquisitor and infect that wound with his own blood,there you have it a ghoul. It does not matter the numbers of chances for others people to be infected in different circumstances because we are discussing a specific case here which is the one presented in your heart shall burn. 2)Absence of evidence is not an evidence,there is no reason lore wise to say that Corypheus is unable to jump into darkspawns,on the contrary he seem to be better than the Archdemons in this. 3)Corypheus is able to remain into an host without altering their body,he did that to Janeka,this is something of whom he has perfect control. Body jump into the Inq would have allowed him to gain the anchor and being in charge of the future Inquisition.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 12, 2016 22:23:33 GMT
1) Darkspawn corruption isn't 100 per cent transmitable. Some people get into one fight with a darkspawn and BAM! ghoulification. Others spend years in the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn and never become infected. Not to mention most people who do get infected with the taint die long before ghoulification sets in. If you are infected directly by their blood you become infected is simple Corypheus would pass his soul before or after the body die,it doesn't matter at all his ability work even if someone is dead.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 12, 2016 22:26:35 GMT
The mechanics of how someone becomes tainted isn't entirely clear, but I've long speculated that it has something to do with willpower. The Blight isn't just a disease; it's corruption of the soul as well as the body. Those who are in a weakened state or are emotionally fragile are more susceptible to the corruption to those who are strong-willed. Certainly, contact with darkspawn blood is a factor, but if that were all it took, the darkspawn could coat their blades with their own blood and they'd be unstoppable. And yet, Renn from The Descent has spent a decade in the Deep Roads slaying darkspawn and he's avoided becoming a ghoul. This is a speculation and nothing more.For first darkspawns are not intelligent critters so it is obvious that they will not use tainted blades in combat or poisons or any other kind of more advanced tactic unless they are disciples awakened. The regular taint does not corrupt the soul otherwise all the GW should be able to body jump like the Archdemons. I know nothing of what this Renn did or if he ever entered in contact directly with tainted blood,a person can live his whole life underground without being infected,that is not a surprise.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 12, 2016 22:36:53 GMT
Renn is the dwarven warrior from The Descent. He's spent a decade fighting in the Deep Roads.
Darkspawn are more cunning than you realize. They're capable of fairly advanced military tactics.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 13, 2016 1:12:17 GMT
There are plenty of plot holes in the story of DAI,in fact i do believe that it's main plot is in itself a big plot hole.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 13, 2016 1:20:56 GMT
Renn is the dwarven warrior from The Descent. He's spent a decade fighting in the Deep Roads. Darkspawn are more cunning than you realize. They're capable of fairly advanced military tactics. Darkspawns are very predictable and they are not cunning at all(unless they are those of DAA or some generals of the blight in contact with the old gods,but these are not regular darkspawns)they could have conqured Thedas long ago,if they did not is because their will is so weak that they probably berely are conscious of themselves. They are a race who have the advantage of numbers,don't die for old age,don't need resources to survive,don't sleep and yet they did not won yet against mortals because of the lack of self awareness.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 13, 2016 5:48:53 GMT
Yes and no. Yes, the darkspawn are savage, bestial creatures, but we've seen them set ambushes, carry out two-pronged attacks and even use psychological warfare.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 13, 2016 14:31:34 GMT
Yes and no. Yes, the darkspawn are savage, bestial creatures, but we've seen them set ambushes, carry out two-pronged attacks and even use psychological warfare. It seems that the majority of darkspawn are not intelligent. However, there are certain special ones which are brighter than the rest, and are capable of directing/controlling a certain amount of their brethren into fighting more effectively. The archdemon is unique, as it's capable of controlling essentially all the darkspawn.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 13, 2016 21:31:38 GMT
You know with Ander's Manifesto -Hawke made a comment of the spelling errors. He did? Have I forgotten so much about DA2 that I don't recall that? When does this happen? LOL! Took sometime but if I remember correctly:
Take Varric and Anders with you to Chateau Haine. While your sneaking around you'll come across a book for Varric's quest. Hawke will comment about how the spelling in said book is worst then Anders or something to that affect.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 14, 2016 18:12:16 GMT
One of the things which puzzled me was that Solas spent millennia dreaming away watching the world from the Fade. He was able to see a number of things from there, from some sort of small village in Ferelden with a helpful spirit matchmaker right up to a Qun baker in Par Vollen, yet apparently had no idea whatsoever about how archdemons and thus likely Corypheus might be able to cheat death. He should have witnessed 5 Blights in total. Surely at least one of those might have given him some insights? Cole seemed to have no limit to the range of his mind reading ability, being able to home in on Iron Bull's old Tamassran in Par Vollen, and Feynriel was able to save a girl he knew in Kirkwall from up in his new location of Tevinter, using his dreamer abilities, so it seems odd that Solas was so limited in the range of what he could know.
Also considering the "secret of effective immortality" that Corypheus used, splitting his soul with a dragon, was something that the spirits of Mythal were also aware of, might it not have been an idea to check out how this ancient darkspawn Magister managed to survive this long anyway. Might it not conceivably be possible that he had stumbled on the secret whilst searching elven ruins? Considering that Solas seems to think that practically every bit of powerful magic you come across has some sort of link to the ancient elves. Also he admits he locked away the gods because he couldn't be sure he could kill them permanently, which suggests he at least suspected that Mythal might have found some way to survive.
This is what worries me when Solas starts talking of having plans because he really has a bad track record of thinking things through and anticipating potential problems. If he messed up so badly after having some 3,800 years to plan, it doesn't bode well when he has only been working on his contingency plan since he woke up.
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Post by Prince on Oct 14, 2016 23:11:35 GMT
This plot was a lot weaker, in my opinion, than that of most Bioware games. There are lots of reasons for this, but to me, the biggest issue is how contrived the premise is.
I'm referring to the scene with Coryfishstick, Quizzy, the Divine, and the Idiot Ball. The major flaws in this scene are as follows: 1. Nobody notices that the Divine, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THEDAS, is missing. Is every religious and military leader in the world just that incompetent? Or were they aware she was missing and searching for her? If so, why was the Quizzy alone? If not, why wasn't the Quizzy at the meeting? 2. The Divine is being held immobile through magical means, yet somehow manages to knock the Idiot Ball out of Coryfishstick's hand. Are the grey warden mages just that incompetent? Moreover, is Coryfishstick just that incompetent? He seems to have a pretty strong grip; could a frail old lady even knock the Idiot Ball out of his hand? 3. How does the Idiot Ball give the Quizzy the mark? Was it designed to do this? Did it do that because Coryfishstick had activated it? If so, why didn't Coryfishstick take the mark for himself to avoid the exact kind of thing that happened? 4. Why wasn't the door guarded? (EDIT: To clarify, I'm asking why Coryfishstick didn't post guards to keep someone from interrupting the ritual.) 5. Why didn't they magically silence the Divine? Or even just gag her? Again, is Coryfishstick that incompetent?
I get that lots of plots require suspension of disbelief, especially in Fantasy. However, this plot strikes me as having an unusual number of problems.
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Post by phoray on Oct 15, 2016 3:12:25 GMT
Here's something I just noticed.
Cory can body jump. He just can, because of his Black City thing giving him AD powers. He body jumps to Larius perfectly with no issues.
Then all of a sudden in Inquisition, the Dragon with his soul sliver is the key to his immortality.
Wait, what? Was there a dragon with his soul sliver hanging about the whole time he was asleep in the Grey Warden prison I didn't know about?
Because I thought the AD powers explained it pretty darn well, no Voldemort Soul splitting required.
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Post by melbella on Oct 15, 2016 4:53:37 GMT
The dragon isn't the key to his immortality; it's the key to ending his immortality. For whatever reason, he invested part of his soul in the dragon - Solas and the rest speculate he did this out of pride, to command an archdemon rather than be servant to one. This created a weakness that didn't exist before. As the Well tells us: kill the dragon and the body-jumping ability is disrupted.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 15, 2016 7:25:59 GMT
It was never explained why the riunification of his soul caused the lost of his ability,it strike me just as a random rule the writers put there to kill Corypheus in what was a very rushed ending.In my mind the temple of Mythal did not pertained this game at all and because of it the whole writing of the ending was nonsense.
I think Gaider forced what was a plot of DA2(deleted by EA) into DAI and as a result of it the writing on Corypheus felt forced as it was forced his death.
OK you kill his dragon and his soul return to be to it's original state,the consequence should be the exact situation of Legacy,not Corypheus being unable to use his ability,on top of that the well of sorrow was useless because the Inq sente him with his soul into the fade directly with the anchor,so even if he was still immortal he would have not survived to that.
Also how the ancient whispers of the well knew about what Cory did to his dragon?How they knew that a mage named Corypheus created a dragon with his soul if those elves died when Corypheus wasn't even born?
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Post by fylimar on Oct 15, 2016 8:52:50 GMT
This plot was a lot weaker, in my opinion, than that of most Bioware games. There are lots of reasons for this, but to me, the biggest issue is how contrived the premise is. I'm referring to the scene with Coryfishstick, Quizzy, the Divine, and the Idiot Ball. The major flaws in this scene are as follows: 1. Nobody notices that the Divine, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THEDAS, is missing. Is every religious and military leader in the world just that incompetent? Or were they aware she was missing and searching for her? If so, why was the Quizzy alone? If not, why wasn't the Quizzy at the meeting? 2. The Divine is being held immobile through magical means, yet somehow manages to knock the Idiot Ball out of Coryfishstick's hand. Are the grey warden mages just that incompetent? Moreover, is Coryfishstick just that incompetent? He seems to have a pretty strong grip; could a frail old lady even knock the Idiot Ball out of his hand? 3. How does the Idiot Ball give the Quizzy the mark? Was it designed to do this? Did it do that because Coryfishstick had activated it? If so, why didn't Coryfishstick take the mark for himself to avoid the exact kind of thing that happened? 4. Why wasn't the door guarded? (EDIT: To clarify, I'm asking why Coryfishstick didn't post guards to keep someone from interrupting the ritual.) 5. Why didn't they magically silence the Divine? Or even just gag her? Again, is Coryfishstick that incompetent? I get that lots of plots require suspension of disbelief, especially in Fantasy. However, this plot strikes me as having an unusual number of problems. I agree with you mostly (despite DAI being one of my favorite games at the moment, but there are a lot of plot holes). But Corys carelessness can be explained with his big ego. I don't think, he thought it possible, that some mere mortal could interrupt his perfectly planned ritual, especially not an old woman or a single bystander. It is clear - even in Legacy - that he does not take his adversaries serious - none of them. So him just walking into the conclave and starting the ritual without securing the area is imo perfectly in character. His pride is his biggest weakness
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 15, 2016 18:26:17 GMT
Arrogance may be the excuse you can give for Corypheus not posting guards but it doesn't explain how he managed to kidnap the Divine. It is not as though her right and left hands did not suspect she might be at risk. There had already been an attempt on her life before at a guests of the Empress only ball in her honour. Seeing as a rogue mage was able to infiltrate that with near disastrous consequences, you'd think they would have tightened up security for the Conclave, considering how important the outcome was. You could also argue that Justinia suspected there might be problems because she already had a contingency plan (the Inquisition) should a settlement not be reached.
Instead both Cassandra and Leliana headed off to Kirkwall, supposedly because the Divine wanted Hawke as the Inquisitor. Of course, that is not how it sounded at the end of DA2. There it seemed like something suspicious was going on because of the Hero of Ferelden going missing as well. Then if Leliana is in a romance with them, it turns out she knew where they were all along. So instead of the pair of them investigating the strange disappearance of two leading figures in Thedas, which could conceivably require both of them, it is a simple "Where is Hawke?" scenario. So really Leliana should have been back at the side of the Divine at the beginning of the Conclave and thus have either been killed by Corypheus' minions or blown up along with everyone else.
To be honest, Leliana's ability as a spymaster, keeping her boss and their organisation secure, is pretty poor. She failed to set up a decent watch over the Divine, her network failed to detect Corypheus and his Grey Wardens sneaking into the Conclave(my Lavellan was also apparently able to walk into proceedings having no business being there)or their kidnap of the Divine. Then later we have more than one infiltration of Skyhold by assassins, she failed to check the background of elves signing on from Kirkwall (where she must know about the recruitment of many agents by the Qun having just researched the matter with Cassandra) and failed to do proper background checks on Solas or Blackwall for that matter (or alternatively she did know that Blackwall's story didn't check out and she failed to pass on the information). Also why were the Inquisition supplying the Exalted Council with wine when it was being held at the Winter Palace? (Which is how it is claimed the gaatlok barrels were sneaked into the place).
Then, if you decide to keep the Inquisition, it is said that the same people who failed to spot the rogue agents before, are the ones trying to ferret them out now. Thankfully, my canon choice is to disband.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 15, 2016 18:51:22 GMT
Arrogance may be the excuse you can give for Corypheus not posting guards but it doesn't explain how he managed to kidnap the Divine. It is not as though her right and left hands did not suspect she might be at risk. There's nothing anyone could have done to stop him. He's immensely powerful and immortal. Corypheus likely just slew all the guards set to protect her.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 15, 2016 19:10:31 GMT
Arrogance may be the excuse you can give for Corypheus not posting guards but it doesn't explain how he managed to kidnap the Divine. It is not as though her right and left hands did not suspect she might be at risk. There's nothing anyone could have done to stop him. He's immensely powerful and immortal. Corypheus likely just slew all the guards set to protect her. and yet somehow an old woman was able to kick the Orb out of his hand. This is how things should Turned out without the filmsy premise of this story: 1.Corypheus gain the anchor from the Orb because due to his immortality he survive to the blast. 2.The breach would have not happened. 3. Corypheus use the anchor to enter the fade in flesh,he know how to reach the Black city,he just as the pasta remain trapped there,end of the story.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 15, 2016 19:16:25 GMT
There's nothing anyone could have done to stop him. He's immensely powerful and immortal. Corypheus likely just slew all the guards set to protect her. and yet somehow an old woman was able to kick the Orb out of his hand. And a human was able to slice Lord Sauron's hand so that he lost the One Ring. What's your point? That Corypheus should know how to juggle?
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