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Post by vertigomez on Dec 11, 2018 20:37:31 GMT
Eh, I don't think so. In DA2 we went to a primeval thaig as a human and not a dwarf, and it's not like city elves won't have a vested interest in stopping/helping the ancient elven god-king as they see fit. - I think it would be neat if we were all "connected" to the same house - like, the human PC would be from a certain family in Tevinter, dwarven PC is their trading partner/contact in the Ambassadoria, elven PC is a slave or servant (depending on how progressive they are...), qunari PC could likewise be a newly acquired "purchase" from Seheron or something. That way we can start in the same place with similar connections, but still have distinct backgrounds. It would be pretty meh if qunari and elves were forced to be downtrodden slaves. Well, Tabris/Mahariel/Surana Wardens (not to mention Broscas!) were all pretty downtrodden in their own way, at the beginning of their respective tales. It's not like they'd be stuck there forever. I think a slums background could be interesting, too. Like if you're a Liberati elf like Fenris's mother and sister became. But that basically just sounds like "the alienage, but worse." It's more difficult for a qunari. I'll definitely be playing one if the option is available, but they've got to find a way to justify having a qunari roam around free in Tevinter... and at the beginning of the game, before Special Protagonist Title Exemption Rule kicks in, that's difficult. I guess we could be a Ben-Hassrath spy?
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 11, 2018 20:39:12 GMT
If they aren't doing the Inquisitor as a returning protagonist because of tradition, I don't see why everyone thinks they'll break the other tradition of the protagonist always being an outsider. Non-mage humans are nobles in both DAO and DAI, and dwarves in DAO where the child of the king of Orzammar. I wouldn’t say they were outsiders, background-wise.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 20:39:24 GMT
It would be pretty meh if qunari and elves were forced to be downtrodden slaves. Well, Tabris/Mahariel/Surana Wardens (not to mention Broscas!) were all pretty downtrodden in their own way, at the beginning of their respective tales. It's not like they'd be stuck there forever. I think a slums background could be interesting, too. Like if you're a Liberati elf like Fenris's mother and sister became. But that basically just sounds like "the alienage, but worse." It's more difficult for a qunari. I'll definitely be playing one if the option is available, but they've got to find a way to justify having a qunari roam around free in Tevinter... and at the beginning of the game, before Special Protagonist Title Exemption Rule kicks in, that's difficult. I guess we could be a Ben-Hassrath spy? Inquisitor. There, problem solved.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 11, 2018 20:40:28 GMT
Well, Tabris/Mahariel/Surana Wardens (not to mention Broscas!) were all pretty downtrodden in their own way, at the beginning of their respective tales. It's not like they'd be stuck there forever. I think a slums background could be interesting, too. Like if you're a Liberati elf like Fenris's mother and sister became. But that basically just sounds like "the alienage, but worse." It's more difficult for a qunari. I'll definitely be playing one if the option is available, but they've got to find a way to justify having a qunari roam around free in Tevinter... and at the beginning of the game, before Special Protagonist Title Exemption Rule kicks in, that's difficult. I guess we could be a Ben-Hassrath spy? Inquisitor. There, problem solved. No thanks.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 20:41:30 GMT
If they aren't doing the Inquisitor as a returning protagonist because of tradition, I don't see why everyone thinks they'll break the other tradition of the protagonist always being an outsider. Non-mage humans are nobles in both DAO and DAI, and dwarves in DAO where the child of the king of Orzammar. I wouldn’t say they were outsiders, background-wise. In DAO you barely left Highever or Orzammar, so you were an outsider to the rest of Ferelden. In DAI you were from the Free Marches so an outsider to Ferelden and Orlais.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 20:41:49 GMT
Inquisitor. There, problem solved. No thanks. Better than anything else anyone has come up with.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 11, 2018 20:43:23 GMT
Better than anything else anyone has come up with. That's your opinion. I for one am loving all this speculation and brainstorming.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 20:44:05 GMT
Better than anything else anyone has come up with. That's your opinion. I for one am loving all this speculation and brainstorming. I meant about your "How can a Qunari walk around freely in Tevinter" problem.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 11, 2018 20:45:54 GMT
That's your opinion. I for one am loving all this speculation and brainstorming. I meant about your "How can a Qunari walk around freely in Tevinter" problem. Yeah. And I'm loving all the ideas that people are coming up with, the idea of a cool new background for qunari characters that isn't "Vashoth mercenary."
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by davkar on Dec 11, 2018 21:02:39 GMT
I like the idea of a ~shared origin. The starting event is a blood sacrifice/ritual/your regular Tevinter Tuesday. Human PC attends this on purpose or by accident (depends on dialogue choices). Elf PC is the obvious sacrifice. I'd drop the dwarf and canary options, they felt off (human religion, elfy reveals) in DAI too. Dwarf is welcome if it's a separate kal-sharok origin, but the canary just doesn't work with the tevinter setting.
Anyway, the ritual goes wrong, because of course it does, start of the hero journey and all that. After the dust settles hero is on the run, because spectacularly fked up rituals are a no-no even in tevinter, but then the inquisition's/Dorian' people swoop in (I know, it's bad) and capture-save them. Work for me, you'll get immunity. A mixture of DAO-DAI starts.
If BW feels generous they can give us DAO like origins before this starting event. 2-2
- Generations of bloodmages, event is the youngest child’s first bloodletting - want to continue the tradition or break it. - PC comes from *fancy tevinter name for indebted for a while nobles, but do this event for us and we’re even* family. Ugh, but have to do it for the family/oh this sh*t is actually great! - Frolicking dalish captured by the end of the origin. - Elven servant of the human B origin (mutually exclusive companion options?) un/willingly helping with the event.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 11, 2018 21:14:44 GMT
Non-mage humans are nobles in both DAO and DAI, and dwarves in DAO where the child of the king of Orzammar. I wouldn’t say they were outsiders, background-wise. In DAO you barely left Highever or Orzammar, so you were an outsider to the rest of Ferelden. They could do this same thing for a Tevinter protagonist.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 21:21:07 GMT
Non-mage humans are nobles in both DAO and DAI, and dwarves in DAO where the child of the king of Orzammar. I wouldn’t say they were outsiders, background-wise. In DAO you barely left Highever or Orzammar, so you were an outsider to the rest of Ferelden. In DAI you were from the Free Marches so an outsider to Ferelden and Orlais. I wouldn't say that "outsider" is the important part. Because, as you said, some of the PCs haven't been outsiders. A human noble Warden is very much an insider, in fact.
The more important part is that the PC needs to be able to start with little resources and slowly build over time.
In DA:O - they negate the differences that the origins provide by leveling the field and making you become a Warden and then decimating the order. In DA2 - they do this by making you a refugee In DA:I - they take a similar approach to DA: O by starting the PC as a prisoner (regardless of their background since the human warrior/rogue one is, again, privileged)
So I think that's the more important aspect. I don't think you need to be an outsider to do that. It certainly makes it easier to do that in a place like Tevinter. But you can certainly create the same effect with native Tevinters, especially given the leveled social strata there.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 21:25:17 GMT
In DAO you barely left Highever or Orzammar, so you were an outsider to the rest of Ferelden. In DAI you were from the Free Marches so an outsider to Ferelden and Orlais. I wouldn't say that "outsider" is the important part. Because, as you said, some of the PCs haven't been outsiders. A human noble Warden is very much an insider, in fact.
The more important part is that the PC needs to be able to start with little resources and slowly build over time.
In DA:O - they negate the differences that the origins provide by leveling the field and making you become a Warden and then decimating the order. In DA2 - they do this by making you a refugee In DA:I - they take a similar approach to DA: O by starting the PC as a prisoner (regardless of their background since the human warrior/rogue one is, again, privileged)
So I think that's the more important aspect. I don't think you need to be an outsider to do that. It certainly makes it easier to do that in a place like Tevinter. But you can certainly create the same effect with native Tevinters, especially given the leveled social strata there.
I think being an outsider is an important part. I believe one of the devs said it allows it to make sense why the protagonist asks so many questions about the setting.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 11, 2018 21:45:19 GMT
Non-mage humans are nobles in both DAO and DAI, and dwarves in DAO where the child of the king of Orzammar. I wouldn’t say they were outsiders, background-wise. In DAO you barely left Highever or Orzammar, so you were an outsider to the rest of Ferelden. In DAI you were from the Free Marches so an outsider to Ferelden and Orlais. If that’s your definition of outside, it was work with plenty of backgrounds. I still don’t see how a HN Warden can be defined as such, since when the plot was relevant to Fereldan politics, it was pretty clear his role in Ferelden. You can even become king or queen, so I’d say I don’t fully agree with your point.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 11, 2018 21:46:37 GMT
I wouldn't say that "outsider" is the important part. Because, as you said, some of the PCs haven't been outsiders. A human noble Warden is very much an insider, in fact.
The more important part is that the PC needs to be able to start with little resources and slowly build over time.
In DA:O - they negate the differences that the origins provide by leveling the field and making you become a Warden and then decimating the order. In DA2 - they do this by making you a refugee In DA:I - they take a similar approach to DA: O by starting the PC as a prisoner (regardless of their background since the human warrior/rogue one is, again, privileged)
So I think that's the more important aspect. I don't think you need to be an outsider to do that. It certainly makes it easier to do that in a place like Tevinter. But you can certainly create the same effect with native Tevinters, especially given the leveled social strata there.
I think being an outsider is an important part. I believe one of the devs said it allows it to make sense why the protagonist asks so many questions about the setting. To a limit, that’s fine. It’s not fine when a dalish PC is forced into being ignorant about their culture and religion.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 11, 2018 22:15:08 GMT
I know people want their human, dwarves and qunari, but I'm not off elven-only protagonist. Instead of four different races, give me four different elven origins (dalish, city, ancient, (fog warrior)), an extensive CC with different body types available. And retcon elves not being able to have beards. I'd be fine with that. I only play male elves... mainly because it's a body type I feel really happy and comfortable playing as. To that end, lots of people find comfort playing in the bodies of dwarfs, or qunari... so I would not want to take that from them, even if the end result would leave me very happy.
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 11, 2018 23:11:06 GMT
I know people want their human, dwarves and qunari, but I'm not off elven-only protagonist. Instead of four different races, give me four different elven origins (dalish, city, ancient, (fog warrior)), an extensive CC with different body types available. And retcon elves not being able to have beards. I'd be fine with that. No, please no. I like only playing elf, but not everyone like playing an elf. See DA2, not everyone liked playing human. Race picking should still remain. Now if this was ME well...Humanity first all the way. That's what I don't like about DA2 forcing you to play one race
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 11, 2018 23:12:56 GMT
I honestly doubt that even if going for a single race for the protagonist, it’ll be something different then human.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 11, 2018 23:20:29 GMT
I would like to play a Dalish elf with a tribe. If he must be a slave then he could be a recently captured one. But the elf must be Dalish. You can bbe a Dalish Elf if we continue as the Inquisitor. Considering: -the very, very few race specific dialogue options we had -outside of the Companions and Advisors, very few addressed us as specifically Dalish, as opposed to just another elf -we could not interact with anyone from our Clan -said Clan only appeared in War Table missions and could be wiped out -we couldn't even react to said loss, and no one else mentioned it until Trespasser
Honestly, our "Dalish" Inquisitors come off as railroaded into being lapsed and/or non practicing, or a City Elf pretending to be Dalish. At least, that was my experience.
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Post by twalicious on Dec 11, 2018 23:32:47 GMT
I know people want their human, dwarves and qunari, but I'm not off elven-only protagonist. Instead of four different races, give me four different elven origins (dalish, city, ancient, (fog warrior)), an extensive CC with different body types available. And retcon elves not being able to have beards. I'd be fine with that. I only play male elves... mainly because it's a body type I feel really happy and comfortable playing as. To that end, lots of people find comfort playing in the bodies of dwarfs, or qunari... so I would not want to take that from them, even if the end result would leave me very happy. If they're going to force everyone to play as elves for immersion then they better have a vast variety of elf body types, facial features, hair and... dare I say facial hair. People play human and qunari males because they like raw strength and that's fine. They like warrior builds. That's totally reasonable. If BioWare is going to handgrab those races away, then BioWare better allow players to make buff elves. (Almost said "manly" elves ... irony ) I personally am satisfied with my female elf so I say all this with comfort knowing my character wont be taken from me. I find it worthwhile that everyone else be concerned.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 11, 2018 23:35:19 GMT
I think everyone starting as a slave (regardless of magical status) so we can all share the same Origin (cuz money) would be excellent. Then we rebel nobly or to sieze power for ourselves (allowing altruistic or evil role play FTW) which gets us the attention of -important people-. The only hiccup in this is that the lore does state that dwarves aren't typically slaves in Tevinter. I don't think it says "never are slaves", so it's possible to work it out. But it would definitely be very odd to be a dwarf slave. It's part of the allegiance between Tevinter and Kal-Sharok. Even surface dwarves would be odd to see. Maybe they wouldn't care if you were casteless? Off the top of my head, I can think of several reasons a Dwarf could be a slave in Tevinter:
1. Castless and/or criminal.
2. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and had no allies. This one could be collateral damage from the cold war between Kal-Sharok and Orzimmar.
3. They were poor and sold themselves for survival to an influential Magister, or their family did.
4. They and/or their family were politically problematic and/or they were outmaneuvered by a rival house, and someone thought making them slaves would set an example.
5. A combination of 3 and 4, where a dwarf sells themselves and/or family members to a high ranking Magister for protection against rivals. Considering Cadash was more or less a Carta family, I would prefer our DA4 Dwarven PC be a former noble in this situation.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 12, 2018 0:16:26 GMT
I love the idea of the qunari protagonist being a gladiator slave. (I guess it raises the question of 'does Tevinter have mage gladiators?' but given that we know they keep mages as slaves I bet they are the kind of people who love watching mages in the arena. More fireballs that way.)
As for why you're allowed to walk around loose at the beginning of the game - there is every chance the story will begin in a place that's being attacked by the Qunari army. Which would give any slave protagonist a good chance to get away, especially if they're fighting against the Qunari.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 12, 2018 1:51:01 GMT
I only play male elves... mainly because it's a body type I feel really happy and comfortable playing as. To that end, lots of people find comfort playing in the bodies of dwarfs, or qunari... so I would not want to take that from them, even if the end result would leave me very happy. If they're going to force everyone to play as elves for immersion then they better have a vast variety of elf body types, facial features, hair and... dare I say facial hair. People play human and qunari males because they like raw strength and that's fine. They like warrior builds. That's totally reasonable. If BioWare is going to handgrab those races away, then BioWare better allow players to make buff elves. (Almost said "manly" elves ... irony ) I personally am satisfied with my female elf so I say all this with comfort knowing my character wont be taken from me. I find it worthwhile that everyone else be concerned. I wouldn't like them ret-conning elves like that though ... like, I dunno. I see a lot of people saying they want to play buff muscular elves with beards and I'm just like... um, why don't you play as a dwarf or human? Because you're describing a literal dwarf or human lmao Which is why, yeah, restricting to one race would be a bad idea, especially elves. I think it's a pretty select group of people (especially among men) who opt to play as an elf. Dragon Age is generally all about letting the player be the hero, letting the player customize their experience. They had an extra year of development time for DAI which is why race options got added in last minute. I have a feeling they'll be part of the build from the get go for DA4, especially considering how long they're taking on it.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 12, 2018 2:01:35 GMT
Jesus Christ I do not want to be forced to play an elf.
It's bad enough that they're in the game at all.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 12, 2018 3:13:20 GMT
If they're going to force everyone to play as elves for immersion then they better have a vast variety of elf body types, facial features, hair and... dare I say facial hair. People play human and qunari males because they like raw strength and that's fine. They like warrior builds. That's totally reasonable. If BioWare is going to handgrab those races away, then BioWare better allow players to make buff elves. (Almost said "manly" elves ... irony ) I personally am satisfied with my female elf so I say all this with comfort knowing my character wont be taken from me. I find it worthwhile that everyone else be concerned. I wouldn't like them ret-conning elves like that though ... like, I dunno. I see a lot of people saying they want to play buff muscular elves with beards and I'm just like... um, why don't you play as a dwarf or human? Because you're describing a literal dwarf or human lmaoWhich is why, yeah, restricting to one race would be a bad idea, especially elves. I think it's a pretty select group of people (especially among men) who opt to play as an elf. Dragon Age is generally all about letting the player be the hero, letting the player customize their experience. They had an extra year of development time for DAI which is why race options got added in last minute. I have a feeling they'll be part of the build from the get go for DA4, especially considering how long they're taking on it. Because subverting common stereotypes and going against accepted tropes is fun and makes me happy. Why would I want to play elfy elves or dwarfy dwarves when I could do something more interesting than doing the most obvious thing?
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