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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 17:41:22 GMT
Considering how pissed the evanuris likely are at him, and elgarnan in particular being the god of vengeance, I find the idea solas would go along with possession by one of them highly unlikely. I mean strange circumstances can breed strange bedfellows, but that’d have to be *very* odd. There are many odd things and alliances happening in Thedas all the time Solas also keep bemoaning the fate that he's about to face as worse than death or what he'd wish on his enemies (reminderm again, that made his enemies suffer potentially for eternity). Also - we don't know what that possession would accomplish IF it indeed happens. What if Solas has to absorb Elgar'nan's energy in order to accomplish something in the similar way he absorbed energy from Mythal? Only fight for his soul might ensue because Mythal was weaker and gave her powers willingly, while Elgar'nan is potentially more powerful and pissed off. OR some form of corruption that rotted Evanuris soul may threaten to infect Solas. That is a better idea for me, since he wouldn’t given up his body but would be defeated or corrupted.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 7, 2018 17:42:42 GMT
I think it was WOT2 where more light was thrown at Maferath's motives for betrayal and they weren't related to Andraste as much to the political situation and state of things at that time. And while I think Andraste and Mythal may be connected in some way (I think she's more connected to Leliana... in a sense that I think Leli is her direct descendant, hence the gift of prophecy she sometimes displays), I don't really think they were the same person (Mythal didn't yet "crawl her ways through the ages" to Flemeth, which was born... 500 years after Andraste? I may have timelines messed up, but they were not born at the same time). I also wouldn't call Mythal's actions as 'benign' - like Solas, she has always hovered in the grey area and made questionable decisions, even if eventually at least some of those decisions turned out to be for benefit of the world at large. Ultimately, however, I think she is on 'our side' - at least more than Solas is at this point in time, IMO. From what she says it appears that she wants modern Thedosians to succeed, but in order for them to succeed they will have to change ("We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly.") I completely agree. With ‘benign’ I mostly meant compared to the rest of the Evanuris. Although if she’s more on the sides of modern thedosians, I do wonder why she let Solas absorb her powers...unless she had a plan in mind. I think both of them have a plan in mind It MAY even be going in the same direction, even if they split up at some point or have different ideas about how to accomplish things. We can't forget that Mythal called Solas an old friend and their short reunion seemed very emotional (regardless of world-state), plus there are some hints - especially in Trespasser - that they both plotted and collaborated together before. Both of them seem determined to do something, but also seem to have the same penchant about bottling up about certain secrets and take those secrets with them to their (either metaphorical or literal) graves.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 17:45:03 GMT
I completely agree. With ‘benign’ I mostly meant compared to the rest of the Evanuris. Although if she’s more on the sides of modern thedosians, I do wonder why she let Solas absorb her powers...unless she had a plan in mind. I think both of them have a plan in mind It MAY even going in the same direction, even if they split up at some point or have different ideas about how to accomplish things. We can't forget that Mythal called Solas an old friend and their short reunion seemed very emotional (regardless of world-state), plus there are some hints - especially in Trespasser - that they both plotted and collaborated together before. Both of them seem determined to do something, but also seem to have the same penchant about bottling up about certain secrets and take those secrets with them to their (either metaphorical or literal) graves. Considering her death was the trigger for his subsequent actions about the Veil, it’s clear they had a connection of sort. And I agree with your views of both of them. I do hope that, since this game will focus on this plot, that we’ll find out the whole truth about the elven history.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 7, 2018 17:58:27 GMT
I'm not entirely sure Mythal is benign at all, it wouldn't surprise me if she was the one manipulating and causing the whole problems to begin with - I won't go into all my theories but there is a strong connection of Mythal and Andraste, they were likely the same person but I always found it interesting how there were sources that suggested Maferath had good reason to betray Andraste and they were doomed if he didn't. I would wonder if that would parallel with Mythal being murdered. I think it was WOT2 where more light was thrown at Maferath's motives for betrayal and they weren't related to Andraste as much to the political situation and state of things at that time. And while I think Andraste and Mythal may be connected in some way (I think she's more connected to Leliana... in a sense that I think Leli is her direct descendant, hence the gift of prophecy she sometimes displays), I don't really think they were the same person (Mythal didn't yet "crawl her ways through the ages" to Flemeth, which was born... 500 years after Andraste? I may have timelines messed up, but they were not born at the same time). I also wouldn't call Mythal's actions as 'benign' - like Solas, she has always hovered in the grey area and made questionable decisions, even if eventually at least some of those decisions turned out to be for benefit of the world at large. Ultimately, however, I think she is on 'our side' - at least more than Solas is at this point in time, IMO. From what she says it appears that she wants modern Thedosians to succeed, but in order for them to succeed they will have to change ("We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly.") I would say Flemeth is not Mythal's first attempt and that from the way that Flemeth only had daughters and Andraste only had daughters, they have strong similarities. There's also this:
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 18:01:46 GMT
I think it was WOT2 where more light was thrown at Maferath's motives for betrayal and they weren't related to Andraste as much to the political situation and state of things at that time. And while I think Andraste and Mythal may be connected in some way (I think she's more connected to Leliana... in a sense that I think Leli is her direct descendant, hence the gift of prophecy she sometimes displays), I don't really think they were the same person (Mythal didn't yet "crawl her ways through the ages" to Flemeth, which was born... 500 years after Andraste? I may have timelines messed up, but they were not born at the same time). I also wouldn't call Mythal's actions as 'benign' - like Solas, she has always hovered in the grey area and made questionable decisions, even if eventually at least some of those decisions turned out to be for benefit of the world at large. Ultimately, however, I think she is on 'our side' - at least more than Solas is at this point in time, IMO. From what she says it appears that she wants modern Thedosians to succeed, but in order for them to succeed they will have to change ("We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly.") I would say Flemeth is not Mythal's first attempt and that from the way that Flemeth only had daughters and Andraste only had daughters, they have strong similarities. There's also this:
I can’t see what you posted, what is it?
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 7, 2018 18:09:03 GMT
I would say Flemeth is not Mythal's first attempt and that from the way that Flemeth only had daughters and Andraste only had daughters, they have strong similarities. There's also this:
I can’t see what you posted, what is it? Sorry for seem reason it's not appearing though it was working before: Halliserre died in a violent incident under mysterious circumstances with Andraste present. This incident scarred Andraste in many ways: she was left with a sickness of the lungs that made her unable to bear children for a decade; she also was known to display strange behavior, such as becoming still for long moments in a trance-like state, after which she would report voices as if from a lost memory and talk of strange auras or the sound of bells. Later on, Andraste came to remember her sister's death as a matter of heresy, suggesting that her alchemist mother had been whispering of the Old Gods.
This is from the Andraste wiki page for early childhood (Halliserre was her half sister that died young). It seems to me that that some sort of elhven spirit came into contact with her, and given the parallels between Andraste and Mythal, the betrayal, Shartan and Solas, Andraste being burried at a Temple of Mythal, I don't see it being anyone other than Mythal herself. Also the only having daughters, and the only other person we know only having daughters being Flemeth who we know is one with Mythal, would suggest both that Andaste has Mythal and Flemeth being her direct descendant.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2018 18:11:35 GMT
I’d rather they not try to make everything connected to the ancient elves, like Andraste.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 7, 2018 18:13:07 GMT
Andraste being burried at a Temple of Mythal What? I don’t think we know what Andraste was myself. I doubt she was a vessel of Mythal. None of the strange events you highlight have much in common with what Flemeth experienced. I’d sooner believe her a vessel of Dumat. I don’t want everything to tie back to the ancient elves
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 7, 2018 18:16:21 GMT
Andraste being burried at a Temple of Mythal What? I don’t think we know what Andraste was myself. I doubt she was a vessel of Mythal. None of the strange events you highlight have much in common with what Flemeth experienced. I’d sooner believe her a vessel of Dumat. I don’t want everything to tie back to the ancient elves There is a large mural of Mythal found in the Temple of Sacred Ashes when you defeat Corypheus
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 7, 2018 18:28:48 GMT
I would say Flemeth is not Mythal's first attempt and that from the way that Flemeth only had daughters and Andraste only had daughters, they have strong similarities. I forgot to mention this before... I did say that I think Leliana may be one of Andraste's direct descendant, right? Well, Flemeth was born sometime after Andraste. I think Mythal and Andraste may be connected in a sense that Mythal has tapped her bloodline (put a pin in that...). Hence both connection to magic and only daughters. I think it's quite indisputable that the incident has either awoken something in Andraste or left her affected by something somehow - although large explosion and being weak after the incident? That sounds more like what happened to Inquisitor, I'd say! I don't suspect that Andraste came in touch with Solas's orb or something, but it may really be a lot of things that may or may not be related. My personal suspicion is that there was an attempt at Andraste's life in order to jeopardize any backup plan Mythal may have implemented maybe even before her demise. What do I mean by that? I was talking about bloodlines before, and there's probably secret to Andraste's own ancestry that was established long before she was born. Who wants to bet that there's a connection between her and Tyrdda Bright-Axe? He descendant *was* called Morrighan'nan and whatever mystical entity Tyrdda hooked up with was insistent on her being born (and with a specific dwarven leader). Complicated? Well yeah, but that's how age-old multi-dimensional chess would look like!
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 18:30:11 GMT
I’d prefer not every secret to be tied with elven lore, and I don’t think it will. Given that the focus will be likely be on the ancient past of Arlathan and the secrets connected to it and the Evanuris, I don’t think they’ll focus much on Andraste on this game.
I’d say that there’s a chance of a connection between Andraste and Mythal, howewer.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 7, 2018 18:30:34 GMT
What? I don’t think we know what Andraste was myself. I doubt she was a vessel of Mythal. None of the strange events you highlight have much in common with what Flemeth experienced. I’d sooner believe her a vessel of Dumat. I don’t want everything to tie back to the ancient elves There is a large mural of Mythal found in the Temple of Sacred Ashes when you defeat Corypheus HUH? lost here? if I remember correctly the Temple was destroyed at the beginning and I don't recall seeing a mural playing DAO.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 7, 2018 18:30:58 GMT
Andraste being burried at a Temple of Mythal What? I don’t think we know what Andraste was myself. I doubt she was a vessel of Mythal. None of the strange events you highlight have much in common with what Flemeth experienced. I’d sooner believe her a vessel of Dumat. I don’t want everything to tie back to the ancient elves Well yeah, but Dumat himself probably has deep ties to ancient elves. In fact... my theory is that probably close to everyone likely has ties to ancient elves, in one way or another
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 7, 2018 18:32:34 GMT
There is a large mural of Mythal found in the Temple of Sacred Ashes when you defeat Corypheus HUH? lost here? if I remember correctly the Temple was destroyed at the beginning and I don't recall seeing a mural playing DAO. You fight Corypheus at the end of DAI on the remains of the Temple of Sacred Ashes. There is a mural of Mythal there:
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 7, 2018 18:33:51 GMT
There is a large mural of Mythal found in the Temple of Sacred Ashes when you defeat Corypheus HUH? lost here? if I remember correctly the Temple was destroyed at the beginning and I don't recall seeing a mural playing DAO. It's not in DAO - it's in DAI. Mythal's mosaic is literally at the center of the last location we fight Corypheus in before his defeat. (btw. it's kinda obvious from DAO itself that Temple Of Sacred Ashes ain't a human-made structure, even if reclaimed or rebuilt by humans... kinda like Skyhold).
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 7, 2018 18:34:19 GMT
What? I don’t think we know what Andraste was myself. I doubt she was a vessel of Mythal. None of the strange events you highlight have much in common with what Flemeth experienced. I’d sooner believe her a vessel of Dumat. I don’t want everything to tie back to the ancient elves Well yeah, but Dumat himself probably has deep ties with ancient elves. In fact... my theory is that probably close to everyone likely has ties to ancient elves, in one way or another Yeah, I suspect so too - or they are tied to the dwarves. DA has a strong them of history connecting to the present, the history of Thedas is the dwarves and elves, they are the beginning (or atleast what we know so far of the beginning)
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 7, 2018 18:37:27 GMT
Ok, I never saw that thank you for setting me straight.
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