Lulupab
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Lulupab on Jan 5, 2019 18:03:31 GMT
However lets not forget Anders. He is arguably as relevant as Aveline and Varric, if not more, and he is Bisexual.
But I remember him flirting with male Hawke and no way of rejecting him without approval loss causing a minor uproar. He also does not bring up his thing with Karl if Hawke is female. The combination of these two events was kinda weird.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 5, 2019 18:03:37 GMT
I think we experienced some relevancy with Dorian in Trespasser. He was more relevant than a none-divine Cassandra. If Cassandra is not divine, she basically does nothing in Trespasser. She is just a member of Inquisition. However I do see the validity of the claim that there have been no plot relevant gay/lesbian LIs. Not even Bisexual ones. And given my experience with Dorian, which only gave a glimpse of relevance, I'd love a better version of it in DA4. Er, Anders? |
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Lulupab
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 95 Likes: 133
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Post by Lulupab on Jan 5, 2019 18:06:20 GMT
I think we experienced some relevancy with Dorian in Trespasser. He was more relevant than a none-divine Cassandra. If Cassandra is not divine, she basically does nothing in Trespasser. She is just a member of Inquisition. However I do see the validity of the claim that there have been no plot relevant gay/lesbian LIs. Not even Bisexual ones. And given my experience with Dorian, which only gave a glimpse of relevance, I'd love a better version of it in DA4. Er, Anders? Ninja posted  |
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cankiie
N3
People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 5, 2019 18:07:44 GMT
That you can go out of your way to avoid Cassandra is irrelevant to the fact that she's a huge part of the game Huge part, eh? Skyhold - no Cassandra anymore, boom, bye Cassandra no use for you anylonger I have Blackmail who is a way better tank anyhow because of his specialization. ... It doesn't change that not ignoring her adds a lot more to the game than not ignoring Iron Bull, or Fenris, or Zevran does. The only thing NOT ignoring her adds is her romance story... potentially some interraction between her and Varric, her being mad he did not tell her where Hawke was, and her being a fan of his books. Not wanting to do Morrigan's ritual, or caring about Mythal/elven lore, or Morrigan's continued role in the series doesn't make that huge bulk of material disappear as an option for those that do care about it. Granted, Dragon Age: Origins had the whole Witch Hunter DLC in which Morrigan was the one to find. Her role in DA:I in regards to "plot relevant romanceables" are moot because she is not romanceable to the protagonist here. We want romances like Morrigan that give us the option to substantially change how our individual story plays out through interaction with them. Oh, is that it? Well, perfect! No matter who you romance it does not change the story... at all. Romance Morrigan? She still goes ahead and leaves, you can at the end choose whether you want to stab her or not, or if romanced go with her /Shrug not much has changed in DA2 or DA:I Romance Solas? Oh well, he still leaves, and at the end you still get to choose whether you want to try and stop him even if it means killing him, or if you want to try and talk him out of it. Such an effect these romances has on the plot indeed!  That moment when you realise that 'straight men' have not complained about a "plot relevant" romanceable for two games now. All they complain about is how a certain group of people ruins storytelling with their inane demands Sometimes people are really, really used to seeing people like themselves cast as sidekicks. So it’s nice to sometimes see them as major characters who have a big impact on the plot, instead of being on the periphery. People like feeling like they have agency in the world, and one way they can get that sensation is by seeing characters they relate to having agency in the world. To broaden to things other than sexuality, I’m half Chinese. Characters who look like me tend to be filler characters, research assistants, or monks/ninjas. Part of the reason I really enjoyed playing Jade Empire (and later, Shadowrun: Hong Kong) is because it gave me the feeling that people who looked like me actually had the ability to affect the world. They weren’t just sidekicks to someone else’s goals. And that includes villains too, by the way... as long as they’re interesting and not Generic Order of Ninjas #2347. Of course, if a game has CC, I can play a hero who looks — to various degrees — like me. But I get an even stronger warm fuzzy feeling when I’m not the only one.  Yeeaah, I don't see a lot to be complained about. The only one who has any real effect on the world is the protagonist and in a game where the protagonist is customizeable I see very little reason for complaints. Romances do not affect the world, romances obviously affect your relationship with a certain character, it is kinda in there with 'romance' but that romance is nothing compared to the larger plot. Anders was supposedly a bisexual male in DA2, but heck, everyone in DA2 were bisexual! I bet even the mabari was bisexual in DA2 What did the romance end with? You still got a choice as to whether you wanted to stab him in the back or not. He still blew up that chantry, pantry church with a magically religious shanty, the war was still ignited. This is the moment when we realise none of our choices matter overall, and we are just playing this game like one would read a book. Interactive storytelling! No... all of this is way too weird a thing to obsess over. Imagine, these years are also the only years where we have heard complaints about how gay, bisexual, black, asian, etc etc people are portrayed as villains. While white straight people have been portrayed as villains for eternity. I wonder what happened  |
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 5, 2019 18:10:05 GMT
Part of the reason I really enjoyed playing Jade Empire Shame they never got around to making Jade Empire 2  |
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Post by jjdxb on Jan 5, 2019 18:22:30 GMT
However lets not forget Anders. He is arguably as relevant as Aveline and Varric, if not more, and he is Bisexual. But I remember him flirting with male Hawke and no way of rejecting him without approval loss causing a minor uproar. He also does not bring up his thing with Karl if Hawke is female. The combination of these two events was kinda weird. I mean, I guess real people (narcissists) might react that way. But the degree to which the disapproval contributed to the uproar is arguable. I certainly think a large proportion of the outrage was directly because he flirted with Hawke.
The Karl thing is weird. It can be argued that it was part of Ander's motion to test the waters for whether male hawke would be interested (I'd actually say it's 60% likely to be authors intent), but that was hardly the time and place for that.
I hope if we move away from a leader-role protagonist there will be fewer reasons to opt for the player driven flirtation. That said, not every character should flirt with the PC first, and even fewer of them should do so without at least some approval of the PC. In DA:I, I'd probably say something like this if we weren't in that leadership position:
Will flirt with you -Iron Bull
Will flirt with you if they approve of you to some level
-Blackwall -Sera -Dorian (like actually flirt and not jokingly flirt)
Will not flirt with you -Cassandra -Cullen -Josephine -Solas |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 5, 2019 18:24:05 GMT
All they complain about is how a certain group of people ruins storytelling with their inane demands . Imagine, these years are also the only years where we have heard complaints about how gay, bisexual, black, asian, etc etc people are portrayed as villains. While white straight people have been portrayed as villains for eternity. I wonder what happened It seems like you're trying to get offended at this point, since nobody has said anything negative at all about "straight men" or "white people". lol Not everything is a part of the culture war conspiracy. Feels a little snowflakey.  You wrote a lot of text that still misses the basic point that we're just asking for romances with equal optional content to straight romances. It doesn't matter if you can ignore a lot of it. Being in a romance with Morrigan changes the context of your interaction with a character that has a huge amount of content in a way that being in a romance with Zevran doesn't. This is an obvious point if you're not doing mental gymnastics to avoid it just because you have a glaring, unrelated political bias. |
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 5, 2019 18:27:21 GMT
Imagine, these years are also the only years where we have heard complaints about how gay, bisexual, black, asian, etc etc people are portrayed as villains. While white straight people have been portrayed as villains for eternity. Villains... and also heros. People aren’t looking for characters like them to fill one specific role. They want variety. Makes it more interesting! When people are asking for one specific role, it’s usually because in the larger media context they never see themselves in that role. For example, I love that the show The Good Place has an asian character who’s kind of dumb and gets into a lot of crime. Out of context, that would be a crazy thing for me to ask for — “make the person who looks like me be an idiot criminal!”, but the reason I enjoy it is because asians are almost always portrayed as super smart and very square. It adds more variety, and it feels less lazy than stamping out another asian who’s an Elegant Sexless Monk. When people are complaining about villains, it’s usually because it’s a specific type of villain that gets overplayed. For example, all the goddamn ancient ninja orders that asian villains seem to come from. It’s not offensive, it’s just plain boring.  Similarly, there’s a specific flavor of gay/lesbian/bi villain where their sexuality is meant to be part of their menace, rather than being an unrelated part of their character. That’s a bit overplayed, so when people are complaining about queer villains, that’s usually the type of villain they mean. |
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cankiie
N3
People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 5, 2019 18:51:57 GMT
It seems like you're trying to get offended at this point, since nobody has said anything negative at all about "straight men" or "white people". lol Not everything is a part of the culture war conspiracy. Feels a little snowflakey. Are you sure? I would love for you to be right on this one. You wrote a lot of text that still misses the basic point that we're just asking for romances with equal optional content to straight romances. It doesn't matter if you can ignore a lot of it. Being in a romance with Morrigan changes the context of your interaction with a character that has a huge amount of content in a way that being in a romance with Zevran doesn't. This is an obvious point if you're not doing mental gymnastics to avoid it just because you have a glaring, unrelated political bias. Well, obviously. Morrigan had a whole DLC dedicated to her  Also, it does not change the content at all. It may change how you as a person behind the screen viewed her. But it did not change the content. Villains... and also heros. Villains, nontheless. Even when the protagonist was a female, the villain was still a white person, still no complaints. Even when the protagonist was black and the villain still white... still no complaints. It is not exclusive to video games, but all other media too. What people care about, what people should care about. Is a good story. Not whether the villain or hero or sidekick or whatever is straight, gay, bisexual or a Boeing AH-64 Apache When people are complaining about villains, it’s usually because it’s a specific type of villain that gets overplayed. Indeed, when people complain about a villain it is because of the villain trope. Some seem to like to complain about the villain's skin colour, sexuality, etc etc instead. Similarly, there’s a specific flavor of gay/lesbian/bi villain where their sexuality is meant to be part of their menace, rather than being an unrelated part of their character. That’s a bit overplayed, so when people are complaining about queer villains, that’s usually the type of villain they mean. Like black people becoming zombies in Africa and as a result of that is shot |
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Post by Artemis on Jan 5, 2019 18:59:00 GMT
On a bit of a serious note, for a change, does anyone have any preference for the kind of tone and content they want in a romance? WELL YES 1. Not a joke; no dick jokes, sex jokes, etc. Not anything remotely resembling Iron Bull's romance. 2. Not getting into specifics, who was on top, who was on bottom, etc. 3. Slow burn, the romance progresses at an agonizingly slow pace. 4. Chance for me to be hesitant and a bit shy, instead of always initiating the romance and having the bawdiest, naughtiest flirts ever. 5. Equally shy male lovers (it's cute, especially if they're way manly), but self-confident aggressive female lovers (oh mama). 6. Sex is fine (though I don't mind the option to say I'm not interested in sex) but don't make it the be all, end all of the romance. I love a beautiful and tasteful love scene, and lately Dragon Age seems to think that zeroing in on tits or ass is "mature" content. If my character's naked in a scene, they should be snuggling with their beloved, or having a beautiful moment, etc. |
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Post by Artemis on Jan 5, 2019 18:59:56 GMT
I would love for him to have a non-apologetic "Sorry, I'm not into women" line or something, Gil's was kinda lame and you can flirt with Dorian a lot because gay best friend trope TM which it's a trope I'm totally disgusted with. Same with lesbians, I think Sera's was nice, but Suvi's erased her sexuality "we keep things professional dudebro" Making gay characters safe for straights has to end, god knows the people who yell SJW at the top of their lungs will do so no matter what anyway-so just be real. "No sir I'm a woman who loves women!" "I like men! Don't waste your time." Though it's also worth stating that I'd much rather all the romances be bisexual with LG representation characters elsewhere-lord knows there's a larger chance of people getting a romance they like without the restrictions. Also,make sure the scenes work for both genders (don't share the same assets and let one be great and the other a train wreck-Reyes and Peebee). Funny enough, they did a great job with Liam turning down Scott. Liam's such a sweetheart about it. I would love for a gay or lesbian character to turn down an opposite sex PC in the same way. "Oh, wow! Ha, I'm flattered, but, sorry." |
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Post by Artemis on Jan 5, 2019 19:05:40 GMT
However lets not forget Anders. He is arguably as relevant as Aveline and Varric, if not more, and he is Bisexual. But I remember him flirting with male Hawke and no way of rejecting him without approval loss causing a minor uproar. He also does not bring up his thing with Karl if Hawke is female. The combination of these two events was kinda weird. I mean, I guess real people (narcissists) might react that way. But the degree to which the disapproval contributed to the uproar is arguable. I certainly think a large proportion of the outrage was directly because he flirted with Hawke.
The Karl thing is weird. It can be argued that it was part of Ander's motion to test the waters for whether male hawke would be interested (I'd actually say it's 60% likely to be authors intent), but that was hardly the time and place for that.
I hope if we move away from a leader-role protagonist there will be fewer reasons to opt for the player driven flirtation. That said, not every character should flirt with the PC first, and even fewer of them should do so without at least some approval of the PC. In DA:I, I'd probably say something like this if we weren't in that leadership position:
Will flirt with you -Iron Bull
Will flirt with you if they approve of you to some level
-Blackwall -Sera -Dorian (like actually flirt and not jokingly flirt)
Will not flirt with you -Cassandra -Cullen -Josephine -Solas Hmm, except Solas is one of the few characters who does flirt first |
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 5, 2019 19:15:20 GMT
Villains... and also heros. Villains, nontheless. Even when the protagonist was a female, the villain was still a white person, still no complaints. Even when the protagonist was black and the villain still white... still no complaints. I think I didn’t quite make myself clear enough. When I say “villains and heros”, I don’t mean villains and heros in a single piece of media. I mean the overall proportions across all media. At the risk of sounding like a robot, the proportions are very different if people take the time to count rather than going off what they feel. People sometimes believe women or nonwhite people or what-have-you are taking over all of media, but if they actually count the totals, there are much less of the minority than they initially thought. Because minorities are considered unusual, they stand out more. And because they stand out more, they can seem more numerous than they actually are. Let me give an example. I work in tech. Tech has less women in it than men. A couple years ago, that topic came up at lunch one time, and one of the managers said “oh, X team is almost half women!” Dear readers, the team had a dozen people on it. Two of them were women. But because women are such an unusual sight, his “mental count” was almost triple the actual count. I’ve seen the same thing happen with black people in tech too. Because white and asian men are the “default” in tech, people mentally filter them out, and then they freak out when it feels like xyz group is “taking over” when in reality it’s in line (or usually, much much lower) than that group’s actual population in the local community. |
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jan 5, 2019 19:16:36 GMT
Hmm, except Solas is one of the few characters who does flirt first that's what I thought to!
I mean...there's his whole subtle 'enjoyable side benefit' dialogue he either admires their grace (rogue), muscles (warrior) or focus (mage)
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Post by Artemis on Jan 5, 2019 19:23:51 GMT
Hmm, except Solas is one of the few characters who does flirt first that's what I thought to!
I mean...there's his whole subtle 'enjoyable side benefit' dialogue  he either admires their grace (rogue), muscles (warrior) or focus (mage)
Yes, exactly this! It's one of my favorite moments b/c male Lavellan is voiced (with a mod) and he seems so surprised and a bit shy, it's the freaking cutest. And Solas is very... hmm... not shy xD |
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 5, 2019 19:32:28 GMT
Hmm, except Solas is one of the few characters who does flirt first that's what I thought to!
I mean...there's his whole subtle 'enjoyable side benefit' dialogue he either admires their grace (rogue), muscles (warrior) or focus (mage)
rogues? graceful? fake news! |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 5, 2019 19:38:05 GMT
It seems like you're trying to get offended at this point, since nobody has said anything negative at all about "straight men" or "white people". lol Not everything is a part of the culture war conspiracy. Feels a little snowflakey. Are you sure? I would love for you to be right on this one. You wrote a lot of text that still misses the basic point that we're just asking for romances with equal optional content to straight romances. It doesn't matter if you can ignore a lot of it. Being in a romance with Morrigan changes the context of your interaction with a character that has a huge amount of content in a way that being in a romance with Zevran doesn't. This is an obvious point if you're not doing mental gymnastics to avoid it just because you have a glaring, unrelated political bias. Well, obviously. Morrigan had a whole DLC dedicated to her Also, it does not change the content at all. It may change how you as a person behind the screen viewed her. But it did not change the content. But it's absurd to argue that the context doesn't matter in a role-playing game. Arguing that imagination and emotion don't matter misses the point of the storytelling medium. Witch Hunt is a powerful narrative if you play as someone that romanced her. It can completely change the fate of your character in a massive way. You can track down the person you love and convince them to have a family together. Two games later, you find out they're still happy and raising a son together. Added to that, if you play an elf, you would have access to a lot of elven history through her that you otherwise wouldn't. Conversely, if you romance Zevran you get some minor hints once in a while that he's off doing crow stuff while the warden does warden stuff and you have very little to do with each other. Bioware makes role playing games. They're basically cinematic choose your own adventure stories. Having options for interesting and varied narratives for your character is the entire point of this medium and you're completely writing that off. How the content impacts your character based on the relationship you have with the character is extremely important because that's the inherent nature of the media. |
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 5, 2019 22:08:18 GMT
On a bit of a serious note, for a change, does anyone have any preference for the kind of tone and content they want in a romance? I've been thinking about this a lot. I would like a f/f romance whose defining quality isn't "sweet" - we've had that acerbicness in Sera and Isabela, where they are sweet but you have to dig deeper to see that, but Leliana, Merrill, Josephine (and Liara, Suvi, etc...) sort of have this sempai-kohai relationship going on where yeah it's sweet and all but it's also.... childish? And I know that might come across as lulzy to people when I don't include Sera in that category, but I just mean this sort of "schoolgirl lesbians, we're so sweet and fluffy and vaguely non-sexual because we're soft and sweet GIRLS!!" and basically I just want the tone to be a little more grown-up. Two adult women, maybe some drama or political maneuvering, something spicy. I think it should be restated that the exclusive gay romance (if there is only one as per usual) should not be hidden in a dark corner-less likely to happen with Dragoh Age, but after Andromeda's launch, I don't take anything for granted. I would love for him to have a non-apologetic "Sorry, I'm not into women" line or something, Gil's was kinda lame and you can flirt with Dorian a lot because gay best friend trope TM which it's a trope I'm totally disgusted with. Same with lesbians, I think Sera's was nice, but Suvi's erased her sexuality "we keep things professional dudebro" "Ohhh. No, we have... too much in common, yeah? Because we both like women." Lol gold.  |
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 5, 2019 22:09:05 GMT
that's what I thought to!
I mean...there's his whole subtle 'enjoyable side benefit' dialogue he either admires their grace (rogue), muscles (warrior) or focus (mage)
rogues? graceful? fake news! Pffft, given how many times Solas’ thundering mage-feet got my (mostly rogue) parties entangled in combat, I can see why he thinks rogues are graceful. He certainly isn’t. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 22:20:37 GMT
On a bit of a serious note, for a change, does anyone have any preference for the kind of tone and content they want in a romance? I've been thinking about this a lot. I would like a f/f romance whose defining quality isn't "sweet" - we've had that acerbicness in Sera and Isabela, where they are sweet but you have to dig deeper to see that, but Leliana, Merrill, Josephine (and Liara, Suvi, etc...) sort of have this sempai-kohai relationship going on where yeah it's sweet and all but it's also.... childish? And I know that might come across as lulzy to people when I don't include Sera in that category, but I just mean this sort of "schoolgirl lesbians, we're so sweet and fluffy and vaguely non-sexual because we're soft and sweet GIRLS!!" and basically I just want the tone to be a little more grown-up. Two adult women, maybe some drama or political maneuvering, something spicy. While I agree that there should be more variety so everyone can have a romance that they like, what exactly about those kinds of romances make it not ‘grown up’ compared to other romances? |
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 5, 2019 22:26:47 GMT
I've been thinking about this a lot. I would like a f/f romance whose defining quality isn't "sweet" - we've had that acerbicness in Sera and Isabela, where they are sweet but you have to dig deeper to see that, but Leliana, Merrill, Josephine (and Liara, Suvi, etc...) sort of have this sempai-kohai relationship going on where yeah it's sweet and all but it's also.... childish? And I know that might come across as lulzy to people when I don't include Sera in that category, but I just mean this sort of "schoolgirl lesbians, we're so sweet and fluffy and vaguely non-sexual because we're soft and sweet GIRLS!!" and basically I just want the tone to be a little more grown-up. Two adult women, maybe some drama or political maneuvering, something spicy. While I agree that there should be more variety so everyone can have a romance that they like, what exactly about those kinds of romances, with male or female characters, make it not ‘grown up’ compared to other romances? It's more that that sort of underscored, exaggerated sweetness is a stape of the yuri genre and f/f fiction in general. I'm specifically talking about with two female characters. The m/f crowd is welcome to that if they want it. The emphasis on being shy and delicate and everything being new is what makes it seem childish, 'cause it harkens back to the schoolgirl lesbians trope. It is not inherently a bad thing but I would like to see more f/f romances where that's not the tone or the whole nexus of the romance. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 22:33:44 GMT
While I agree that there should be more variety so everyone can have a romance that they like, what exactly about those kinds of romances, with male or female characters, make it not ‘grown up’ compared to other romances? It's more that that sort of underscored, exaggerated sweetness is a stape of the yuri genre and f/f fiction in general. I'm specifically talking about with two female characters. The m/f crowd is welcome to that if they want it. The emphasis on being shy and delicate and everything being new is what makes it seem childish, 'cause it harkens back to the schoolgirl lesbians trope. It is not inherently a bad thing but I would like to see more f/f romances where that's not the tone or the whole nexus of the romance. Ah, okay. I thought you were saying those kinds of romances were immature in an insulting way towards that kind of romance but it is just you want more variety. |
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 5, 2019 22:40:19 GMT
It's more that that sort of underscored, exaggerated sweetness is a stape of the yuri genre and f/f fiction in general. I'm specifically talking about with two female characters. The m/f crowd is welcome to that if they want it.  The emphasis on being shy and delicate and everything being new is what makes it seem childish, 'cause it harkens back to the schoolgirl lesbians trope. It is not inherently a bad thing but I would like to see more f/f romances where that's not the tone or the whole nexus of the romance. Ah, okay. I thought you were saying those kinds of romances were immature in an insulting way towards that kind of romance but it is just you want more variety. What I'm saying is that that tone of romance - specifically for f/f, not at all for m/f - is reminiscent of the schoolgirl lesbians trope. "Childish" isn't bad, but when the same themes show up over and over again, that's tropey as there's already a whole genre that treats f/f relationships like they're all fluff and hand-holding. |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 5, 2019 22:50:33 GMT
"As a white, straight person, I don't see what gays and other races have to complain about."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 22:55:10 GMT
Ah, okay. I thought you were saying those kinds of romances were immature in an insulting way towards that kind of romance but it is just you want more variety. What I'm saying is that that tone of romance - specifically for f/f, not at all for m/f - is reminiscent of the schoolgirl lesbians trope. "Childish" isn't bad, but when the same themes show up over and over again, that's tropey as there's already a whole genre that treats f/f relationships like they're all fluff and hand-holding. I thought that’s what I said after reading your answer to my question. I thought you were against that kind of relationship in general and were insulting it, but then you answered how it was just the overuse of it for f/f that you didn’t like since then then it seems to be following a trope over and over. Am I correct or am I misunderstanding part of your post? If I am misunderstanding you please let me know. I wonder if it happens to be landing on bisexual female LIs more often due to BioWare trying to provide options for male and female players while consuming the least amount of resources due to how expensive romances are to make. So after creating the characters and now deciding romances, the devs generally do that romance with the bi female LI while the female LIs attracted to one sex are the ones who don’t thus creating options. |
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The emphasis on being shy and delicate and everything being new is what makes it seem childish, 'cause it harkens back to the schoolgirl lesbians trope. It is not inherently a bad thing but I would like to see more f/f romances where that's not the tone or the whole nexus of the romance.