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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2024 0:37:58 GMT
BioWare being BioWare is no surprise to anyone here and that's fine. I was struck during the trailer, gameplay and GameInformer updates that BioWare seem to be playing it pretty smart.The 7 pansexual companions (not playersexual) choice seems clever because no-one is ruled out, everyone can join in. When Inquisition made a big deal of Dorian in the marketing, it drew a spotlight that became a major talking point. I remember one of the game directors fending off a Russian journalist demanding a 'gay content' toggle. And for Inquisition at least, who can romance whom became somewhat of a distraction. In the 10 intervening years gaming has moved on a distance, so perhaps BioWare's approach to characters is no longer so unique (the gaming darling that is Baldur's Gate 3 had pansexual romances after all). Unless something changes in the marketing, the characters are being left to 'be' without further justification and the focus (so far at least) is on game mechanics, the character creator, difficulty and accessibility options. Diverse and accessible but also mostly uncontroversial. I'm seeing a good deal of random criticism on YouTube, but also a good amount of spirited defence. For sure there are channels complaining about BioWare (alongside Star Wars, Star Trek, etc being ruined) but also a good number of channels being very sensible about Veilguard. (A list of which we curate: bsn.boards.net/thread/20221/veilguard-content-creators-thread)Yeah I think based off wha tewv eseen s ofa rBiowae rfor th emost par tae rmaking a l th erigh tnoises. Obviousl yI don' tthink we'll trul yknow unti lmoe rdetails com eout. Bu tth enoises coming ou to fBiowaer s ofar about Veilguard seem good. Only tim wil tell though i fi tstays tha tway but lik eyou I'm hopeful this is a turnaround and not a ship that's about to sink
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 3, 2024 0:39:50 GMT
The 7 pansexual companions (not playersexual) choice seems clever because no-one is ruled out, everyone can join in. *sits in the no option corner after BioWare stated there aren’t ace relationships in the game*
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Post by colfoley on Jul 3, 2024 4:40:38 GMT
3 hours late. I'm sure that popcorn is very old by now.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 3, 2024 7:45:48 GMT
Shards? Did you mention Shards? Another reason why DA:I is not my fav game. I played it because I bought it... no.. because I was stupid and pre-ordered it! Uhg.. Aside from the boring fetch quests and the stupid lit up gold rings to find just bottles for a collection quest, the shards was easily my most hated quest from DAI. They forced you into using the occulara that had been made using morally reprehensible methods (and the damned things sang when you went near them even if you didn't want to use them), the shards were often in places that were really hard to access, so involved a lot of swearing as you repeatedly missed your footing and slipped back down just before you got to them. Then the pay off was a few stat boosts and an underwhelming boss fight because by the time you had collected the requisite shards you were higher level than it demanded, plus a mysterious codex, a few masterwork items and a dagger. Hardly worth all that effort. I'd been willing to ignore it on principle once I'd found out how the occulara were created and only persevered because I'd noticed it was recorded in the Keep so I thought it might be important in future games if not in DAI, particularly given the name of the Temple. Turned out that was not the case. Not only did it not have any bearing on the plot in DAI or Trespasser but now the Keep isn't even going to be used. Hopefully, the promise of a more linear plot with DAV, with only a limited amount of open world areas, will mean an end to that sort of quest.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Jul 3, 2024 8:19:50 GMT
Shards? Did you mention Shards? Another reason why DA:I is not my fav game. I played it because I bought it... no.. because I was stupid and pre-ordered it! Uhg.. Aside from the boring fetch quests and the stupid lit up gold rings to find just bottles for a collection quest, the shards was easily my most hated quest from DAI. They forced you into using the occulara that had been made using morally reprehensible methods (and the damned things sang when you went near them even if you didn't want to use them), the shards were often in places that were really hard to access, so involved a lot of swearing as you repeatedly missed your footing and slipped back down just before you got to them. Then the pay off was a few stat boosts and an underwhelming boss fight because by the time you had collected the requisite shards you were higher level than it demanded, plus a mysterious codex, a few masterwork items and a dagger. Hardly worth all that effort. I'd been willing to ignore it on principle once I'd found out how the occulara were created and only persevered because I'd noticed it was recorded in the Keep so I thought it might be important in future games if not in DAI, particularly given the name of the Temple. Turned out that was not the case. Not only did it not have any bearing on the plot in DAI or Trespasser but now the Keep isn't even going to be used. Hopefully, the promise of a more linear plot with DAV, with only a limited amount of open world areas, will mean an end to that sort of quest. Ohhh! So that's what the occulara are for. Well, I'm glad I always ignored them.For the most part I agree. I didn't like that they made his personal quest purely about his sexuality though. Especially considering the world of Dragon Age has rarely, if ever, cared about someone's sexual preference.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 3, 2024 9:06:43 GMT
Can you tell me what exactly is DEI in the game? We know not much of the story or the companions. At the moment. The only thing that isn't like DAO is the gameplay and the dialog-wheel.
To your question. Maybe you read what people have write here.
DEI = diversity, equity and inclusion I know the wording. But people using it in a way i don't understand. As if it were an insult. With your wording all DA would be DEI. But that isn't what the person mean. If i understand the comment right.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 3, 2024 9:29:02 GMT
If I am I would be more helped by you elaborating on how I have misunderstood them. I'm always willing to listen! Well you (and others) seem to be assuming that said poster is some kind of failed Austrian painter with a funny moustache just because "DEI" was mentioned in a negative way. Asking for elaboration is a good first step. Not a good second one. But I think thus far you're the only who who asked at all. Was what I wrote not a question? Can you tell me what exactly is DEI in the game? We know not much of the story or the companions. At the moment. The only thing that isn't like DAO is the gameplay and the dialog-wheel.
To your question. Maybe you read what people have write here. What should i have wrote different? That it doesn't sound like i assuming something? I am really interessted what DEI mean in his post.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 3, 2024 9:38:58 GMT
But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. BG3 have woke backlash as well. But it stoped after it's getting popular because so many people liked it.
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Post by fairdragon on Jul 3, 2024 9:46:12 GMT
But they don't. Granted the frustration here is that there does not seem to be any real codified bent to these arguments a lot of them seem to be up to the individual to go 'this is woke' or what not. But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. Though keeping in mind the above I am sure we can find some video to go 'ah ha!' but there just does not seem to be that much of a clamor on the 'wokeness' of BG out there. Indeed as some people even point out around here, though imo they are confusing the dangers of DEI with actual diversity, Dragon Age and BioWare has included these types of people in their games from the very beginning...all without much claims of being 'woke', or having political influence within the medium. If you go back far enough we've had women, minorities, and even the occasional gay character well represented in other franchises over the years...without being acused of being woke or whatever the previous versions of the terms were. The Witcher, Stargate, Babylon 5, Ripley in Aliens, Star Wars, James Bond as early as the 70s, Trek. I think the list has gone on and on and on. So the issue, at least with some, isn't that minority characters are being represented in film since they have been represented in film/ entertainment quite competently in entertainment for decades but that, for these people, something has changed to where they are no longer being represented competently. Whilst I don't want to go too far into the weeds of a political movement I don't really understand and sometimes gives me a headache we have seen actors, producers, writers, and directors lambast various parts of their audience and say that these movies 'aren't for them' and that they are doing these things specifically to piss off varying racial groups. I think that's a good start to understanding why some people are annoyed, and fortunatley BioWare hasn't fallen to that temptation since they are very eager it seems to genuinely make games for everyone. At least Patrick Weekes said something to that effect in an interview right around the time DAI came out. Though on the flip side the original post and the original argument doesen't really hold up in this case, at least imo. The 'other side' of the culture war since Woke is a new term the mistake members of that side tend to make is attaching the word to stuff with minorities in it because the assumption is made that anything with minorities is automatically bad because its influenced by DEI etc. Plus, while I am not going to be bigoted and assume anyone who makes the argument and is concerned about such things is themselves a bigot or has nefarious motives genuine bigots have latched onto the movement as well. Its hard to know the full personality of a poster on the BSN based on a single post and I will not be doing so, speaking in general observations here, but really I don't see anything within Veilguard which is any more or less woke as Baldur's Gate. So to lead back up to my original comments sometimes the 'rules' seem to be quite unevenly applied. It’s tokenism versus actual diversity. Well written characters of any ethnicity or sexuality tend to be just as beloved as straight white characters. Shit, some of DA’s most beloved characters sre Dorian, Leliana, and Isabella… a wide hit of sexes, ethnicities, and sexualities. And one or the biggest film franchises in Fast and the Furious quietly built itself off its diversity for 20 years and almost no one criticises it for the diversity. The problem comes when it feels like a character only exists to tick a box or piss people off (some creators have stated this sentiment lately). Or just horribly handled. And the ire is usually as loud from the communities they supposedly want to include. Everyone here should remember Heinsley from Andromeda… the loudest detractors were from the trans community for how bad it was handled. It was shocking after Krem being done well in Inquisition. Granted, this “woke” cry over Bioware is odd. Though seven years of no Bioware SP title and an entertainment industry struggling to do diversity correctly in that time frame and not taking critcism well has a lot of people on edge. No one wants another Heinsley moment where it didn’t do anyone justice and then to be called a bigot for calling out that it was simply poor writing. I understand that with something where you know the story and the character well. But for DA:TV we doesn't know much. So calling it out for that is weard. They asume it will be bad without knowing it. I can't judge something that isn't their.
I don't like bad writing as well. But i call it what it is bad writing. Rings of Power is for me really bad writing and i know people that like it. So i am happy for them. I don't go and write bad writing on every video that is out there and have it as topic.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2024 11:08:49 GMT
Shards? Did you mention Shards? Another reason why DA:I is not my fav game. I played it because I bought it... no.. because I was stupid and pre-ordered it! Uhg.. Aside from the boring fetch quests and the stupid lit up gold rings to find just bottles for a collection quest, the shards was easily my most hated quest from DAI. They forced you into using the occulara that had been made using morally reprehensible methods (and the damned things sang when you went near them even if you didn't want to use them), the shards were often in places that were really hard to access, so involved a lot of swearing as you repeatedly missed your footing and slipped back down just before you got to them. Then the pay off was a few stat boosts and an underwhelming boss fight because by the time you had collected the requisite shards you were higher level than it demanded, plus a mysterious codex, a few masterwork items and a dagger. Hardly worth all that effort. I'd been willing to ignore it on principle once I'd found out how the occulara were created and only persevered because I'd noticed it was recorded in the Keep so I thought it might be important in future games if not in DAI, particularly given the name of the Temple. Turned out that was not the case. Not only did it not have any bearing on the plot in DAI or Trespasser but now the Keep isn't even going to be used. Hopefully, the promise of a more linear plot with DAV, with only a limited amount of open world areas, will mean an end to that sort of quest. Yeah tbh I onl yreall yge tenoug hshards to open the col ddoors really. Mainl ybecause the sta tboosts aer useful when fightin gthe Jaws of Hakkon I don' tworry abou tth ewhol etemple just the cold doors
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2024 11:12:33 GMT
Aside from the boring fetch quests and the stupid lit up gold rings to find just bottles for a collection quest, the shards was easily my most hated quest from DAI. They forced you into using the occulara that had been made using morally reprehensible methods (and the damned things sang when you went near them even if you didn't want to use them), the shards were often in places that were really hard to access, so involved a lot of swearing as you repeatedly missed your footing and slipped back down just before you got to them. Then the pay off was a few stat boosts and an underwhelming boss fight because by the time you had collected the requisite shards you were higher level than it demanded, plus a mysterious codex, a few masterwork items and a dagger. Hardly worth all that effort. I'd been willing to ignore it on principle once I'd found out how the occulara were created and only persevered because I'd noticed it was recorded in the Keep so I thought it might be important in future games if not in DAI, particularly given the name of the Temple. Turned out that was not the case. Not only did it not have any bearing on the plot in DAI or Trespasser but now the Keep isn't even going to be used. Hopefully, the promise of a more linear plot with DAV, with only a limited amount of open world areas, will mean an end to that sort of quest. Ohhh! So that's what the occulara are for. Well, I'm glad I always ignored them.For the most part I agree. I didn't like that they made his personal quest purely about his sexuality though. Especially considering the world of Dragon Age has rarely, if ever, cared about someone's sexual preference. I think it jus tshows how differen tTevinte ris and thei rbeliefs aer rather different than those living in Southern Thedas
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 3, 2024 12:31:48 GMT
I know the wording. But people using it in a way i don't understand. As if it were an insult. To my mind 'DEI' is treated somewhat like 'SJW' used to be, as an attack line. I would suggest other websites are a better place to unpick the pros and cons of the politics of that. As far as Veilguard and BioWare are concerned, a diverse approach will come as a no surprise to anyone who has followed BioWare over the last 20 years.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 3, 2024 13:40:15 GMT
I know the wording. But people using it in a way i don't understand. As if it were an insult. To my mind 'DEI' is treated somewhat like 'SJW' used to be, as an attack line. I would suggest other websites are a better place to unpick the pros and cons of the politics of that. As far as Veilguard and BioWare are concerned, a diverse approach will come as a no surprise to anyone who has followed BioWare over the last 20 years. Indeed and right now I think it's the best approach.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Jul 3, 2024 13:50:39 GMT
If you can hear the dogwhistle, maybe you're the dog? I need to remember that one. It sounds like a good zinger if that's all you're interested in scoring, but it's also a good way to make the people you're engaged with realize they're talking to a sophist troll, or worse an idiot.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jul 3, 2024 13:54:50 GMT
I need to remember that one. It sounds like a good zinger if that's all you're interested in scoring, but it's also a good way to make the people you're engaged with realize they're talking to a sophist troll, or worse an idiot. I just blocked the clown rather than engage with him. All he had yesterday to rebut me with was a cute meme which is usually what right-wingers resort too when they know they don't have an argument or even know what a "strawman argument" might even be. I learned on the interwebs that for my sanity and peace of mind it's better to just not engage with fools. I don't get paid for it. No shame in having a mighty long block list.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jul 3, 2024 13:57:05 GMT
But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. BG3 have woke backlash as well. But it stoped after it's getting popular because so many people liked it. BG3 did have a woke backlash especially after the video with Halsin and Astarian having sex dropped before launch. The usual suspect were in all comments calling it a perverts game. I know. I was there and I saw it.
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Post by biggydx on Jul 3, 2024 13:58:57 GMT
3 hours late. I'm sure that popcorn is very old by now. And the gif didn't even work, so it's even more fucked! 😀
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Post by azarhal on Jul 3, 2024 14:13:37 GMT
BG3 have woke backlash as well. But it stoped after it's getting popular because so many people liked it. BG3 did have a woke backlash especially after the video with Halsin and Astarian having sex dropped before launch. The usual suspect were in all comments calling it a perverts game. I know. I was there and I saw it. That scene turned out to be the best marketing the game could have.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jul 3, 2024 14:16:14 GMT
BG3 did have a woke backlash especially after the video with Halsin and Astarian having sex dropped before launch. The usual suspect were in all comments calling it a perverts game. I know. I was there and I saw it. That scene turned out to be the best marketing the game could have. Truth.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 3, 2024 14:19:40 GMT
Sure they do, we see in on bsn with every new bw game. Saw it well represented during the trailers, the live chats were flooded with these clowns. All that changes is the dogwhistle, i.e. replace “sjw” with “woke” with “dei” etc. It will be same with the new mass effect too no doubt If you can hear the dogwhistle, maybe you're the dog? hey, at least you tried right?
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 3, 2024 14:22:37 GMT
I need to remember that one. It sounds like a good zinger if that's all you're interested in scoring, but it's also a good way to make the people you're engaged with realize they're talking to a sophist troll, or worse an idiot. give the man points for truth in advertising, at a minimum
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Post by githcheater on Jul 3, 2024 14:28:21 GMT
It sounds like a good zinger if that's all you're interested in scoring, but it's also a good way to make the people you're engaged with realize they're talking to a sophist troll, or worse an idiot. I just blocked the clown rather than engage with him. All he had yesterday to rebut me with was a cute meme which is usually what right-wingers resort too when they know they don't have an argument or even know what a "strawman argument" might even be. I learned on the interwebs that for my sanity and peace of mind it's better to just not engage with fools. I don't get paid for it. No shame in having a mighty long block list. The same goes for far-left progressives. Unfortunately moderates get drowned out.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jul 3, 2024 15:50:52 GMT
Looks like we get a small news article from Game Informer tomorrow.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Jul 3, 2024 15:57:47 GMT
Remember when politics wasn't allowed to be discussed here? Aahhh...good times.
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